The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode #73 - Noelle Tarr
Noelle Tarr is a Nutritional Therapy Practitioner (NTP) and an NSCA-Certified Personal Trainer. In addition to managing the health and fitness blog coconutsandkettlebells.com, she is the host of the top-ranked health podcast, Well-Fed Women. She’s also the creator of Strong From Home, an online home fitness program, and runs her own online wellness practice specializing in an individualized approach to health and fitness. She lives in Northern Virginia, with her husband, two young children, and two boxer dogs.
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1:45 - IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life: Join Melanie's Facebook Group For A Weekly Episode GIVEAWAY, And To Discuss And Learn About All Things Biohacking! All Conversations Welcome!
2:00 - Follow Melanie On Instagram To See The Latest Moments, Products, And #AllTheThings! @MelanieAvalon
2:25 - FOOD SENSE GUIDE: Get Melanie's App To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, histamine, Amine, glutamate, oxalate, salicylate, sulfite, and thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, reactions To Look For, lists of foods high and low in them, the ability to create your own personal lists, And More!
3:25 - DRY FARM WINES: Low Sugar, Low Alcohol, Toxin-Free, Mold- Free, Pesticide-Free , Hang-Over Free Natural Wine! Use The Link DryFarmWines.Com/Melanieavalon To Get A Bottle For A Penny!
3:45 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Non-Toxic Beauty Products Tested For Heavy Metals, Which Support Skin Health And Look Amazing! Shop At Beautycounter.Com/MelanieAvalon For Something Magical! For Exclusive Offers And Discounts, And More On The Science Of Skincare, Get On Melanie's Private Beautycounter Email List At MelanieAvalon.Com/CleanBeauty! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: Melanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz
8:00 - Social Media, Chronic Health Issues, Appearance And Mindset
9:30 - Being Real On Social Media
14:20 - How Can You Make A Job Out Of Your Passion?
15:10 - Wendy: What Is Your Story On Being An Entrepreneur?
19:40 - Creating Products And Affiliate Products
22:40 - The Importance Of Consistency
23:40 - Working With Brands
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25:55 - Discounts
26:40 - The Perception/Backlash Of Female Business Owners
30:45 - Dealing With Stereotypes
31:35 - The Role Of Women In Society
31:50 - INSIDE TRACKER: Get The Blood And DNA Tests You Need To Be Testing, Personalized Dietary Recommendations, An Online Portal To Analyze Your Bloodwork, Find Out Your True "Inner Age," And More! Listen To My Interview With The Founder Gil Blander At Melanieavalon.Com/Insidetracker! Go To MelanieAvalon.Com/GetInsideTracker And Use The Coupon Code MELANIE30 For 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!
35:20 - What Are Your Favorite Bio-hacks?
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41:30 - Improving Sleep
43:20 - Self Quantification Overwhelm
43:50 - Continuous Glucose Monitors
The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode #70 - Kara Collier (Nutrisense)
48:50 - Listener Q&A: Britney - How To Know If IF Is negatively affecting You, How To Know Correct Fasting Window
51:05 - Intermittent Fasting Approaches: OMAD, ADF, 16:8
51:20 - Fasting For Women - The Clinical Literature , PCOS
53:55 - Eating For Your Cycle
The Cancer Code: A Revolutionary New Understanding of a Medical Mystery (Dr. Jason Fung)
56:30 - Chronic Exposure To Carcinogens
58:30 - PREP DISH: Weekly Grocery And Recipe Lists Which Are Gluten Free And Optionally Paleo, KETO, AIP, Or Alkaline! Get A Free 2 Week Trial At Prepdish.Com/Melanieavalon
1:00:30 - Skincare
1:01:15 - Switching To Safe Skincare - Endocrine Disruptors in the Blood
1:06:00 - The Role Of Active Ingredients
1:07:05 - Listener Q&A: Miranda - What Are Common Obesogens?
1:08:10 - Listener Q&A: Kathryn - Why Is Retinol Bad? And Other Problematic Ingredients
1:10:45 - The EWG
1:13:00 - Beautycounter Testing
1:14:20 - Listener Q&A: Monica - Should You Do Skincare If Your Skin Is Fine?
1:17:35 - Counter+ Overnight Resurfacing Peel, Countertime Collection
1:17:45 - Beautycounter Makeup
1:18:35 - Counter+ Brightening Facial Mist
1:20:30 - Witch Hazel To Set Makeup
1:21:00 - Morning And Nighttime Routine
Countercontrol Clear Pore Cleanser
Countermatch Adaptive Body Moisturizer
Countertime Antioxidant Soft Cream
1:27:10 - Gua Sha
Countertime Tetrapeptide Supreme Cream
1:30:30 - The Immunity Code: The New Paradigm for Immune Centric Health and Radical Anti-Aging (Joel Greene)
1:34:10 - Lead with kindness
Noelle Tarr: Welcome, Melanie, to the Well-Fed Women Podcast.
Melanie Avalon: Welcome, Noelle, to the [laughs] Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast.
Noelle Tarr: Thank you. It's great to be here.
Melanie Avalon: It's wonderful to be here.
Noelle Tarr: Melanie, you and I did a mashup episode for me on our podcast, it was the Well-Fed Women Podcast. It was number 256, which is actually, I looked this up, it was exactly a year ago. So, apparently, this is our annual mashup podcast episode. We talked about the connection between mindset and health, and you and I just dove into a whole bunch of topics. We figured that after a year, we have been-- Melanie and I obviously have a relationship offline. We both have holistic health podcasts. But then, we also have a relationship offline where we talk all the time on Voxer, and Melanie always maxes out her Voxers at like 15 minutes, and she always has so much to say, and she's so helpful with all her advice. We both are like, “Let's just jump on and do another podcast and bring this conversation on air.” I'm excited to talk about all the random little things that we're going to talk about today. It's going to be fun.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'm so excited. I don't know how many times we send Voxers and we're like, “This should just be a podcast episode,” because it's about all the things. For my listeners, I had Noelle’s Episode 26 of this show. It was like the beginnings of this show or halfway through the show.
Noelle Tarr: You've been doing this show now, like, what a year and a half?
Melanie Avalon: Ish. Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. That's awesome.
Melanie Avalon: Crazy.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. I mean, it's hard doing this. I know that this for you is like your second show, which is a lot to juggle. For me, it's a lot to manage the Well-Fed Women Podcast. I can't imagine doing two. Are you still gung-ho and loving it?
Melanie Avalon: I love it. It's so interesting, I'm talking to my audience and your audience, so for the entire audience, I have the Intermittent Fasting podcast, which sidenote, it was always a dream when we first started that show to try to get Stefani Ruper on the show. I might have told this last time, but the way actually connected with Noelle through, something we'll talk about later, which is Beautycounter. It was actually my sneaky way of trying-- because I've been a huge fan of Well-Fed Women ever since it was Paleo Women Podcast. That was my sneaky way of trying to get in contact with you.
Noelle Tarr: I was like, “Who's Melanie Avalon? I don't know who this is.” I remember googling you, and I'm like, “She's an actress? Okay, she has a book and she's an actress. That's interesting.” I remember I emailed you and I don't usually send these cold emails, like, “Hey, I'm Noelle. Who are you?” Yes. Then, we connected, you've got on Voxer. Did I pull you on Voxer?
Melanie Avalon: You did, because you were like, “You’ve got to get on Voxer,” all these things. I was like, “No more social media.”
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, you're overwhelmed.
Melanie Avalon: You're like, “Got to get on Instagram.” I was like, “I can't.”
Noelle Tarr: We may be jumping a little bit into this, but I just want to ask you one question before we dive in. I've noticed an interesting shift in you lately. I mean, 2020 has been a crazy year and we've all been hopefully developing ourselves and working through our problems. When I interviewed you last year, and we did this whole thing, or whatever, we did our mashup episode. We talked about our own personal journeys into health and mindset when it comes to working on your own long, withstanding chronic health issues, which we both have experience with. A year ago, you were not putting pictures of yourself on social media. Now, I'm seeing you all up on the social media with your selfies. Today, you just posted a photo of you, with your glucose monitor. What was the catalyst for that shift? Was it a mindset thing? Where did you become okay with pictures of yourself again? How did that happen?
Melanie Avalon: This is so huge to me, and such a topic. I feel lot of people have a lot of thoughts and feelings about this. I am not a social media selfie person. I don't like pictures of myself. This has been a thing since I was like three. I would always block the camera with my hands. I'm very insecure. I don't know, I'm not that type of person. I've never really been into selfies, or Instagram, or anything like that. Then, I developed a lot of health issues, fatigue stuff, so I really didn't want to be doing all of that. I would use the excuse of, “Oh, well, we don't want to put all of our lives on social media anyway,” so I would use it as an excuse not to. You were actually pretty big push, like you just said when we started talking. You were like, “Melanie,” you started getting out there more for your brand, your business, your audience.” I was inspired to, and then I find it really interesting because I think a lot of people who have chronic health issues, it can be really easy to just feel tired and not want to put yourself out there because it's really-- That's a lot as a female to put on makeup and take selfies, especially if it's not something that you just naturally enjoy doing.
I found that once I started doing it more, there's an energy that you get from actually putting effort into it, into your appearance-- and I feel really awkward about it because I don't ever want to be selfish or pure stuck up or make appearance anything about worth. It has nothing to do with that. I do think there is something-- you can actually get energy from putting in energy to presenting yourself to the world, and I try to make it relevant content. You mentioned one, today is my continuous glucose monitor and things like that. I have a really weird psychology surrounding it. I'm always talking to my therapist about it. I'm really jealous of people--
Noelle Tarr: That’s so funny. I'm talking to my therapist about my selfies, but it's true, it ties into so much.
Melanie Avalon: When I go see my therapist, I have no makeup, just nothing. I was showing her pictures of my social media and she was like, “What feels more like you? You with no makeup, nothing, or you in those pictures?” I was like, hands down, 100%, what feels more like me, is me in those pictures. She thought that was really surprising. It's not because it has anything to do with, I need makeup, or I need to look good to feel myself. It's when I feel confident in myself and I'm putting myself forward, that feels the true me showing through. Here, I'm going to start crying. It's really interesting. I don't know, I would like love to hear listeners’ thoughts about all of that because the social media world-- because Noelle, you're the bomb on social media. I'm always someone like, “Ah, she has got this together.” You look amazing, you're confident, you put forward amazing content, the Reels you've been doing, I die, or the videos, they're amazing. They're empowering for women. Everybody follow Noelle.
Noelle Tarr: You're cute, thank you. I appreciate that. As you're talking, I can so relate. I felt that way after I had my second child. I went through probably a 6- to 12-month phase where I just didn't want-- Like you said, it took so much energy to get ready and taking showers was hard. When you're in a chronic health issue, I have severe chronic back pain and which has been gone now-- not gone, but very well managed for the last six months. You can tell that on social media, and I have the energy now to take showers and actually dry my hair and put on makeup, and I love that. I feel I feel good. Like you said, it's not necessarily, the appearance is the number one thing, but definitely it feels good to feel myself again and to feel fresh and smell good, and have makeup on and all that kind of stuff and to be able to do my skincare routine.
I've tried to continue to do that social media stuff even when I didn't feel my best, very intentionally. I also have my own insecurities and I didn't want to, but I did feel it was important for me to do that. That's why I was encouraging you to do it because I know that so many people, more people than not, can relate to being stuck in the mud or deep in chronic health issues, or just deep in the struggle. We always see all day is people's best. All we see is the filtered life. We don't actually see when people are struggling. So, I think it's important to always present ourselves-- if we're going to present the best of ourselves on social media, we should also just post the real stuff. Like, “This is me literally having nothing to give, but putting my face on here because this is my life right now.” That's actually the people that I like to follow.
There are quite a few people who jump on social media and are in stories. They have no makeup on, and their hair is up, and I'm like, “Wow, they look tired,” and that's awesome. I like to see that because I feel that way a lot too. So, it's just nice to not see the filtered life sometimes.
Melanie Avalon: 100%. I think I posted my first completely no makeup and I was like, “Oh, this is such a step forward.”
Noelle Tarr: [laughs] I can't take it. You put down the phone, you just don't want to look.
Melanie Avalon: I know. Actually, that ties in a little bit to one thing we wanted to talk about because social media, for a lot of people, it can be just a casual thing about connecting with people or following interests or things like that. But then, for others, it actually is a huge part of our job or our branding or what we're doing. I get a lot of questions about how can you actually make a living or make a job out of something that is your passion that's not necessarily-- and no job is normal, but a “normal” 9 to 5 job because you and I, we do podcasting, social media, we work with Beautycounter, Facebook groups. I'm just so grateful that I am able to make a living out of it. That's a question for you.
For example, like Wendy, she says she'd love to hear your story on how you started out. She calls it being an entrepreneur, but it is sort of being an entrepreneur, she'd like to know how you make money doing podcasts, and then we have a lot of other questions about that, like how can you make your passion or your hobby, something that actually is a sustainable job?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I'm happy to pull the curtain back a little bit. I do. This is the topic of 2020 because I feel everybody's trying to figure out how to make it and how to have these, what I would consider to be multiple streams of income because if anything we have learned of this year is that nothing is predictable, and everything is uncertain. In my opinion, one of the best ways to be stable is to have multiple ways of making money, not to have everything relying on one job or one form of income because if that one thing disappears, then you're up the creek.
The short of it is that I have a degree in marketing, and I was doing marketing for a big running triathlon brand. I started really finding it interesting that other people were getting into the health space, which I was really passionate about at the time, and doing these podcasts. I'd actually listened to a podcast called the Balanced Bites podcast, which is one of my good friends now is the cohost, her name's Liz Wolfe. I thought it was so cool. I looked into what she had done to further her education and to get the knowledge that she had. That's where I learned about the Nutritional Therapy Association. I decided to go back to school, get that certification, get a more official personal training certification because working out in fitness is a big part of my life as well. So, I went through the National Strength and Conditioning Association. This was actually while I was laid up on the couch, I had really hurt my back and I was like, “I need to be doing something else. I need to have another passion, another side hustle that I can be doing and growing and making money,” so that if I'm laid up on the couch, or something's happens to my primary job, I have another form of income.
I did all that stuff, got the certifications, and just started the blog, and started watching what other people were doing, and learned from them. I started writing educational articles, and it was a year of work of not getting any money, but just putting free material out there, free education, writing articles. My shtick was really body image and mindset because that was a huge issue for me personally, and people resonated with that.
When I started blogging, the marketplace was full. It's always full. There's already people doing what you're doing, but I had my own special twist on it. I just kept plugging forward and I had the grit to move through those times where things were not great. Things were not picking up. Nobody was reading my stuff, but I kept doing it. I eventually started the podcast with Stefani, this podcast, because another side hustle was helping her with her marketing. I was like, “Hey, we should start a podcast.” She's like, “Yeah, we should.” The little things like that come. When you're pursuing your passion, you have these waves come. The wave is the luck. It was luck that Stefani and-- I had picked up-- Stefani needed somebody to help her with marketing and she said yes to doing a podcast and we just connected so well. I was able to with my grit and skill and desire and passion ride that wave and utilize that opportunity.
I think you just have to be able to be present and ride those waves as they come as you're trying to pursue your passion. The main way, as my business has grown, so the podcast has grown, the blog has grown, and, oh, gosh, now I have to grow Instagram and all the things. I refuse to get on TikTok.
Melanie Avalon: Me too.
Noelle Tarr: Just can't do it. I can't do it. I'll do the Reels. I just can't do it. As I've been growing, my social medias and the blog and really growing recipes now, I've been really working on that, and I do have a cookbook. The main way that I initially made money was working one on one with clients, with their nutritional concerns, helping-- it was a lot of hormonal health issues. I would help women do nutrition consults. And then, I started moving towards and what I believe in now, is a much more sustainable way to have a business, which is creating products and also having affiliate products that you work with. For example, I created Strong From Home, which is an at-home online workout program. Now, I don't really sell a ton of those now, but it was a big product that I worked on for seven months. I launched to my community in a very specific way using Jeff Walker's passive income strategy. He has this cool program, I took his classes, learned that program and I launched a product. I made some money that year with that product.
Then, while I was making money with that product, I was still growing my podcast. You just bounce around from income opportunity to income opportunity. The podcast is a really cool way to make money simply because we get to team up with brands we're already buying from. Typically, what my strategy is, is to find something that I love, like Alen air purifiers, thank you.
Melanie Avalon: I'm dying that they're sponsor-- I told Noelle. Noelle was like, “What air purifier do I need to get?” I was like, “Get Alen.”
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, so this is what I do to figure out products that I love or figure out the right product. I usually ask Melanie, and two or three other people, which shall remain nameless, but I trust their research, and I know they're good. Then I do my own research, and I was like, “Alen is the best.” I have this gorgeous air purifier, which I love, downstairs. I reach out to those brands. I say like, “Hey, I have this podcast, and I am already using your product, and I love it, and I'm already going to be talking about it.” I don't really say that, but I'm like, “I would love for you to support the show. This is what I can do. I can tell my listeners about you. Would you like to pay me money to do that?” Sometimes they say, no, and they ignore you, and that's fine. A lot of times people ignore you, but sometimes you get that winner. Alen was awesome. They were like, “We've never done this before. But it's worth a try.” I think that they were really touched that I was like, “I just love what you guys are doing, and I love your mission.” I love you know, the products that you're creating for people, like you are doing it. This is the company that I've been looking for.”
Melanie and I both do that. We try to find the products that we're already using and love. We research the heck out of it and we team up with those and they pay us a set fee. For me, in particular, I get paid a set fee per podcast episode for a spot that I air. Then, of course, we have affiliate products that we represent as well. Those, again, are products that I'm already using and talking about, obviously, I'm very passionate about skincare. I make a set fee with Primally Pure, it's usually between like 10% to 15% of whatever people so graciously buy through me. I'll say, “Hey, if you're interested in buying Primally Pure, this is what I use. I use this toner, I use this dry shampoo. If you're going to shop, shop through my link. I would so appreciate that.” Then, with Beautycounter, it's the same thing. “Here's the things that have made a huge difference for me. Here's my link shop with my link, and it gives me a small commission.” That adds up over time.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I can just echo everything you said. Well, first of all, as far as making money and like Noelle said, when you first start. The thing I tell people the most is if you want to make your passion, especially if it's something creative, we're creating content and make it a living, you just have to keep doing it. Just keep creating, keep putting it out there, and it's really hard, especially in the beginning, because you're like, “Who's going to be listening?” But if you just keep doing it, you can build an audience, you can grow. For me, what's really important is to really just stick to the things that I am passionate about. As far as creating content, like podcast episodes.
Like I said, for your audience, I have the Intermittent Fasting podcast, which is a listener Q&A with Gin Stephens, and then this show is the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast where I interview top doctors, authors, researchers, amazing people in the health and wellness sphere. It's been really important to me to only bring forth content that is really my passion, because then I think the passion shows through. I think it makes people really excited. As far as working with brands, because I do work with a lot of brands, but they're only brands that I am personally obsessed with. The amount of brands that we get approached with is insane, because I think people will be like, “Oh, she works with so many brands.” But I'm like if you had any idea how many brands get pitched, it's a lot. It's only the ones, like Noelle said, where it's things I absolutely truly adore. My whole life is lit up with Joovv red light therapy. I drink Dry Farm Wines every night.
Noelle Tarr: I'm wearing my BluBlox glasses right now. Yeah, totally. It's stuff that's made a huge difference for me, and I am that confident that it's going to help people, so why not? It's a dream come true to be able to partner with brands like that. Yeah, I know, Melanie, you say no to so many. We used to work with the same podcasting agency, and now we're both agency free, which is great. We work for a very short period of time, we experimented with this, and I actually talked about some of the woes of this on my podcast. We were working for an agency and they would bring us stuff constantly. I was like, “No, I am not partnering with this random brand. It's not going to work.” You can tell, I think, one podcast, just take anything that come their way and you're listening to these ads and you're like, “Oh, this is awful. Why would anybody actually buy this from this? It doesn't make any sense.” For me, the way that it works is to-- actually have products that you are using and love, and you've researched yourself. So, yeah.
Melanie Avalon: For Intermittent Fasting podcast, we run sponsor spots like you're speaking of. That works fine because usually the actual topics of the episode are always listener Q&A about intermittent fasting. For this show, I used to do slotted sponsors. In 2021, I think I'm just going to do affiliate accounts, and that's so that I can look at the episode, what is the topic about, and what products will best benefit the person listening to that episode, so I can make it really specific to the individual, to that specific topic. I'm really excited. That's going to be a new thing for 2021. No more slotted sponsors on this show.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, that's really cool. I think the cool part about what sometimes the affiliate products that we promote and talk about too, is that that we have discounted coupon codes or whatever. Sometimes, those discounts are way better than what you would find and I'm going to be honest, I buy with my own discount links and codes.
Melanie Avalon: Every time I do, I'm like, “Am I allowed to do this?” I'm not sure, but I am.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I know. I'm like, “Should I do this in my husband's name?” I can't tell you how many times I bought through my own discount link.
Melanie Avalon: I have, too. I have, too. Well, I have a different legal last name.
Noelle Tarr: Oh, my gosh, Melanie, that's hilarious. That's the other cool part of it. I'm already talking about this, and sometimes I do that I just reach out. And I'm like, “Can I have discount code when I'm talking about this, I can at least pass on some sort of discount?” Hopefully, it all works out and y'all appreciate it.
Melanie Avalon: Hopefully, everybody wins.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: Can I ask you one more question about the whole thing? This is a great question that we got from Leah. It has to do with the perception of being the females that we are in the creative work sphere, with our own businesses. Leah said, “I'm a successful healthcare business owner, and I am the sole owner of my company. A lot of work and long hours went into opening it, but now I have a lot of flexibility in my schedule, and I've made jobs in my community. The biggest challenges I faced are criticisms, and unsolicited heart-to-heart advice from other people, usually women, about how I'm not prioritizing family, having kids, and how I will regret this. Few care or believe that I make slightly more money and have way better hours or flexibility than I did when I was an employee. Either that or the people assume that the business is my husband's, and they congratulate him for how well it is doing in front of me.
I'm not bitter. Most days, I just laugh it off, but these are not the challenges I anticipated facing. I look forward to the day when female and minority-owned businesses are so common that no one is surprised is not owned by a man.” For my listeners, Noelle does have two beautiful children and a husband who also works. What are your thoughts on this?
Noelle Tarr: Well, I just think that's funny. I would just have to laugh that off and be like, “Oh, no. No, no, it's my business. Thank you.” I'm pretty out like-- what's the word? I'm not intense, but I will say that I'm pretty confident in my abilities and what I've built. I mean, forward-facing, believe me, I have my own issues and insecurities that I come home and cry to my husband about, but if somebody were to say that to me, or have any sort of backlash to what I was doing, like, “Oh, you should really think about your priorities.” I thought about my priorities, I really appreciate your concern, and in your opinion, or maybe you don't appreciate their opinion, but everybody has opinions. I appreciate that. I appreciate your concern, but I have thought about this and this is this is what I've chosen to do.
As much as it annoys me in those situations, I always try to assume positive intent, and this is a wonderful thing in our marriage as well is that if somebody comes to you and says something, you approach it assuming positive intent. Meaning that that person does actually want the best for you, that person does actually care about you. In those scenarios, it's totally fine to just say, “Oh, okay, thank you for that advice. I appreciate that. I'm really happy with the decisions that I've made,” and just stand your ground. I don't think that will ever live in a world where people don't share their unsolicited opinions and advice. We can take it head-on and not back down from standing our ground and saying what we've chosen to do and being very happy with that. I was married for seven, eight years before, and built my business. I'm so thankful. So thankful that we waited to have kids, so I didn't have my first until I was 31. I'm 34 now, and my second was last year. Yeah, it was hard on my body, but I don't regret that decision at all. It was absolutely perfect for us. We got to do a lot of things, we're both career-driven and we got to do a lot of things and grow our business to a place where I could take a step back and enjoy my baby. When I did, my business was still floating.
Whereas, in the beginning, when you're starting a business, it is a lot like you said, it's a lot of hours, it's a lot of work. You can't really do everything good. You have to choose what it is that you want to put your time towards, and what you want to do really well. Everything's a season. If you've chosen, whatever it is, your job, growing your business for the season, then just be confident in that and don't back down from sharing that with others.
Melanie Avalon: I think it's so refreshing to think of things in terms of seasons. It's so much less exhausting, when you think about it that way, like a time and place for everything. I know for me, I don't have kids, but probably as far as stereotypes go, the thing I struggle with is, because I'm all in the biohacking sphere and I bring on a lot of really intense people, top researchers like David Sinclair at Harvard, Wim Hof. Lot of really amazing people in the health and wellness sphere. I've never gotten this from them, but I do think there is an idea out there where people are a little bit skeptical of, at least when I read iTunes reviews, of a young, blonde, female engaging in these topics. You're not necessarily taken seriously at face value. I like to just flip it in my advantage and see it as prove people wrong or see it as something that is unique, if it's not quite as common and quite out there. I've never seen it as a-- because I think a lot about the role of women in society and equality and what that looks like. I'm so grateful that I'm born now and not decades and decades ago. I do see things changing, and I'm happy where things are going.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I like that. I like flipping the script. What you always say that in our Voxers, is it flip the script? What is it that you always say?
Melanie Avalon: Oh, reframe.
Noelle Tarr: That's what you always say? Reframe. “I'm going to reframe. I'm going to reframe.” You do a really great job of like taking something negative, like a negative iTunes review, which we get all the time, and reframing it into some sort of positive, and I'm like, “Hey, Melanie, great job.” I appreciate that about you. You're really great at that. Do we want to talk about biohacking? Can we jump into that? Or do we have anything else?
Melanie Avalon: Sure, I would love to.
Noelle Tarr: Okay. Obviously, you've had a huge influence on me with your biohacking ways, which simply for me in the last year has always been something like this, I'll say, “Oh, I can't sleep,” or, “I'm having anxiety.” And she's like, “Hey, Noelle, well, you should really try this out. You should try this for your sleeplessness,” or your back pain or whatever. That's mostly what our conversations have looked like. You are the ultimate biohacker. I hope you had time to think about that, because it's hard to answer your favorite. It's okay if you have two or three things you want to touch on, but what is your favorite biohack that you think has made the biggest difference in your life and why?
Melanie Avalon: This is so hard. For listeners who aren't familiar with the term, biohacking, it's basically using devices, supplements, lifestyle tweaks to optimize your performance, optimize your life. Ironically, I see biohacking as a way to almost bring us back to the way we would be naturally through the use of technology often. What I don't ever want to be is be reliant on technology or reliant on biohacking, because I do think that there is a danger there. However, there are a lot of things I've discovered that have had a massive, profound impact on my life. Probably the Joovv red light and near-infrared therapy devices, which I already mentioned. Well, people often go to them because near-infrared light is invisible, but it's a type of light that goes into your body and changes how your cells generate energy because they are better generating energy, everything works better. That's why it can miraculously seem to affect so many things, like people use it for muscle pain, soreness, skin health, so many things. The biggest benefit I get is the red light, which is actually in the visible spectrum. So, it's light that looks red. If you come into my apartment at night, it is all red.
Red light is the type of light naturally found in the rising and setting sun. It's very calming. It's good for regulating our circadian rhythm and it helps combat the overexposure to blue light that we experience today. When I turn on my Joovv red and near-infrared light therapy devices in the morning and at night, I just instantly breathe a sigh of relief. It just helps me so much. Then, that coupled with, you mentioned the BluBlox blue light blocking glasses to block the extra blue light. Anything you can do to support sleep I think is huge. Using that red light to help with your light exposure. Using blue light blocking glasses at night so that you're not exposed to blue light, which actually instantly shuts off melatonin production and lasts for 30 minutes. Say that it's time to wind down and you look at a blue screen, you can say goodbye to melatonin for 30 minutes. It has a really profound effect.
Then, also supporting sleep I think the-- Noelle, do you have a chiliPAD?
Noelle Tarr: I haven't. I just saw you post about it. And I was like, “I'm not doing it.”
Melanie Avalon: Do you have sleep temperature issues at all?
Noelle Tarr: No. I'm so scared of being even more of a high maintenance sleeper than I already am. But I don't. I keep my house very cold. I'm under the blankets, and I'm still cold, so I think that that might--
Melanie Avalon: Then, you sound good.
Noelle Tarr: I need more convincing.
Melanie Avalon: Well, sleep temperature is massively in like-- the temperature of your body while you sleep majorly affects your sleep quality and how you're sleeping. Our temperature is supposed to drop when we sleep. A lot of people especially women, especially with hormones, feel hot, get night sweats, can't sleep because of their temperature. Sleeping on a chiliPAD, or I just ordered the OOLER, which is their newest version. It's low or no EMF, it uses water to heat or cool to whatever temperature you want. If you sleep cold and you want to be warmer, you can make it warmer. It is a game-changer for me for sleep. A lot of people have seen big changes in their Oura ring. Do you have an Oura ring, Noelle?
Noelle Tarr: I don't have it. No. [laughs] Tell me about this.
Melanie Avalon: I'm going on so many tangents. I'm bringing the CEO of Oura onto my show pretty soon, but I am really excited. Although they're not giving me a listener discount and I'm like, “You don't understand, I need a listener discount.” It is actually a ring that you put on your finger. It has three types of sensors in it, but it measures your heart rate variability, which is something that's becoming more and more popular, which is basically, you think that you'd want a steady heartbeat, but actually you want a varied amount and the amount of time between heartbeats, because it shows that your heart is adapting to stressors. Based on your heart rate variability and your sleep cycles because it also measures your sleep cycles, you can tell if on a given day if your body is ready to work out and be active or if you actually need rest and recovery that day. When you wear an Oura ring, it measures your sleep at night, measures your body temperature, your heart rate variability, measures your activity during the day. Then, each morning when you wake up it says, “Hey," there's like a lot of options it gives you, but it basically will say, “You should take it slow today,” or, “Today's great, you should go active,” or maybe in between.
The reason I was talking about that was a lot of people using chiliPADs or addressing their sleep temperature have seen massive improvements on their Oura ring.
Noelle Tarr: Oh no, I think I need this. I'm looking at the website. It's O-U-R-A.
Melanie Avalon: Yes.
Noelle Tarr: Okay. Is this not Bluetooth? Because I'm trying to reduce the Bluetooth.
Melanie Avalon: It has the airplane mode. I put it into airplane mode 24/7. In the morning when I wake up, I put onto the charger, which takes it out of airplane mode, it uploads all the data to your phone. It tells you, “Here's how you slept. Here's what you're ready,” and then you can put it back into airplane mode. No EMFs.
Noelle Tarr: Oh no, this looks great, because I used to have something called the Jawbone, which was like a bracelet that you wore. It broke on me like eight times, but it did tell a lot about, and it was basically your full-time activity, life tracker kind of thing, and it showed me how I slept. I gained a lot of feedback from it because I think what is really cool some of this stuff and what I've learned from you is like, I'm much more in tune with how things impact me mostly. I think what we're getting at is how things impact our sleep because biohacking for me has been, “How can I improve my sleep? How can I make my sleep better?” Because once my sleep is better, everything is better.
I have a downward spiral that happens when I'm not sleeping. Being able to get this feedback of like, okay, wearing the BluBlox glasses and wearing my sleep glasses and doing do means that I sleep better. So, now of course I'm doing CBD oil more for my back pain and that's helped a ton and I've been sleeping really hard at night, which has been wonderful. I've been able to really understand and get good feedback from the little things that I do, or the little things that I don't do. When I don't do certain things, or even just having rough days and anxiety and all that kind of stuff, I can pick up on very quickly when things aren't going to be right and therefore when things are going to affect my sleep. What I need to do, what I need to bring in in terms of biohacking to help me get the best sleep that I can.
I love what you said, it's like these things are tools and ways to improve health, but we're not reliant on it. It's little tweaks, which I think, honestly, these tweaks are so necessary. We have to have them now. If this year have taught us anything, it taught us that. If we're just relying on ourselves, to take care of ourselves we need assistance. It's not going to work out. We need assistance, and nobody is going to prioritize you, but you. Nobody is going to take care of you, but you. You have to bring in these little tweaks and intentionally do these things to take care of yourself because if you're not intentional, you can go into a downward spiral, which I have many times.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, to that point, I was for Oura ring. It's one of the most well-known biohacking self-quantification, monitoring things. I was so hesitant to get it for so long because I didn't want to get into information overload, like self-judging myself. I could see how over-analyzing everything can be a bit overwhelming. I found it the opposite. I found it so enlightening about what is helping me and what's not. You mentioned the continuous glucose monitor. Out of all the biohacking things where it's giving you immediate feedback about my body, the continuous glucose monitor has been the most eye-opening experience ever.
For listeners that aren't familiar, it's basically a sensor that you put onto your skin and it measures your blood sugar levels 24/7, so you get real-time feedback about how food is affecting you, how fasting is affecting you, exercise, you can literally see if your diet is working for you or not as far as blood sugar control goes. Now, I honestly think that everybody could benefit from doing at least a two-week trial and to see if their diet is or is not working for them. It's been huge.
Noelle Tarr: Well, let me ask you a question. This is from Renee because I asked my community for questions just about biohacking and intermittent fasting and stuff. This one's from Renee. She says, “Blood sugar stabilization and timeframes.” This is what she'd like you to discuss. She said, “I just started IF, just trying a 10-hour eating window and a 14 hour fast. I have tested multiple times with higher than optimal fasting blood sugar levels.” She said she's between 95 and 99. “Even while doing paleo or paleo plus minimal legumes, so my ND recommended IF, I'm giving it a try.” Talk to me a little bit about the glucose monitoring. I know you're doing that continuous glucose monitoring because I interviewed Rob and you have too, about the carbohydrate tolerance. I found that topic to be very interesting because especially for those who are more prone to metabolic issues, or you have heart disease and metabolic issues or metabolic disease in your family. This can be really powerful. Figuring out your personal carbohydrate tolerance and what carbs are causing big sugar spikes, or blood sugar swings, and it seems the continuous glucose monitoring is like that, in real-time.
Melanie Avalon: 100%. Actually, the reason I posted that picture, the CGM today because today, the day we're recording, I released an episode with Kara Collier, who is the founder of Nutrisense, which because CGM is weren't available to the general public until very recently through companies like Nutrisense because they require prescription. I'll put a link in the show notes to that episode because we dive hour and a half's worth of, or two hours I think of talking about it. Long story short, as far as, dietary carbs, fasting, blood sugar levels, what I have realized and seen is that we are all so, so unique.
Like low carb, for example, a lot of people do low carb, and it was really great, stable blood sugar levels, it really works for them. Some people they actually experience a sort of higher fasting blood sugar. It's possible that it's due to a physiological insulin resistance that occurs when the body's not getting carbs regularly. It's doing whatever it can to not accept carbs when it gets them, so they're in the bloodstream. The liver can actually produce carbs in the fasted state from protein. A lot of people actually experience on low carb diets or while fasting, higher resting blood sugar levels. This is an ongoing debate in the whole sphere of, is this a bad thing. They're not usually like 120, they're not going to be something like that, but they might be low 100s when you would expect to see fasting, you would expect to see in the 80s, high 70s, 80s, low 90s. That is something where if that's the case, you might be the type of person that could benefit from carb ups, maybe you can benefit from fasting with carbs. It really is just an individual thing where you have to play around with it.
Same with the carbs. Some people, certain types of carbs will spike people's sugar way more than others. I interviewed Cyrus and Robbie of Mastering Diabetes, they actually advocate, it's plant-based high-carb, low-fat approach. So, it's very high-carb, very low-fat, and they are able to manage actual diabetes with it, which is very shocking to a lot of people in the low-carb sphere. But, yeah, it's so individual. It's so unique. For people who want to learn more, I just really suggest if you can't do a blood glucose monitor, at least maybe if you can do a glucometer., so like the at-home ones where you check your blood sugar. I know it can be a little bit scary if you haven't used them before pricking your finger, but once you get used to it, it's really not that bad.
Oh, about the CGM, you don't feel it at all, when you put that on. People often think it's going to hurt but it doesn't. I think testing your blood sugar levels, playing around with your fasting, playing around with your macros. I think just the takeaway is that there's not one answer, because if there was, I think we would all be doing it.
Noelle Tarr: This is from Brittany, she says, “Are there signs that you should watch out for that, like intermittent fasting is negatively impacting you, or you don't have like--?” What I would assume to be you don't have the correct fasting window. What are the options from your perspective, in terms of, ideal, like, fasting windows that women can experiment with who are just trying to get into it?
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. A really common approach is something like 16:8. So that's where you're fasting 16 hours, and eating in an 8-hour window, and you can really just make that 8-hour window cover the meals that you like eating. If you like eating lunch and dinner, you can make it 12:8, or if you like breakfast and lunch, you can make it-- and I can't do math, 9 to--
Noelle Tarr: Wait, counting figures,10, 11, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: I was saying it, and I was like, “Oh crap, do some math while I'm saying this.”
Noelle Tarr: I do that in my head, too. I'm like, “Was that right? I hope so.”
Melanie Avalon: The one meal a day approach is really popular. That's what I do. That's what my co-host Gin of the Intermittent Fasting podcast does. Dinner only, lunch only. Another really popular one with women-- It's interesting, I always thought this was probably a bad thing for women because it sounds very restrictive, but actually, the literature seems to suggest that it can be very protective for women and that's an alternate day fasting approach. That's where you either completely fast one day, or just eat 500 calories on one day. Then the next day you eat completely normal. In any case, when it comes to women and signs to look for and supporting metabolism, I think it's very important that your body is becoming fat-adapted while you're fasting. Basically, you want to make sure your body is running on fat while you're fasting, and it's not in this panicky starvation mode.
If you're doing fasting, and you've been doing it for months, and you're still white-knuckling it, you're still hungry, you're having cravings, that probably means it's not working for you. Fasting, “it should be easy.” If you haven't done it before, that can sound crazy. Basically, the idea is the body becomes metabolically flexible. It effortlessly burns fat during the fast. Then, while you're eating, you're not counting calories while you're eating, you're not restricting while you're eating. This is huge, huge, huge. You want to send your body while you're eating signals of the feast. Signals that it is well fed for the Well-Fed Women Podcast. That's definitely something to look for.
I don't think fasting is always necessarily right for all women all the time. In the clinical literature-- there has been a lot of literature showing that it's beneficial for women, especially PCOS, it's been a huge thing. I've only seen positive, but it's in the clinical literature for PCOS. In the majority of studies that I've seen in humans, I actually haven't seen studies showing terrible side effects and women.
This is really interesting, I know Stefani wrote that article a while back about how a lot of the fasting research was in rodents, which is true and how it had really negative effects on female rodents. But something to keep in mind is that an intermittent fast for a rodent is the equivalent of days and days fasting in women. I don't know that we actually have intermittent fasting studies in female rodents, like the equivalent. I'm going on tangents. Point being I think it's really individual and definitely be in tune with your body, and if you feel like it's not working for you and that it's too stressful, please stop and reevaluate.
Noelle Tarr: Oh my gosh, I want to get you and Stefani on to chat. That would be so fun.
Melanie Avalon: I would love to talk to her.
Noelle Tarr: Wouldn’t that be fun?
Melanie Avalon: I want her to come on this show. Can you ask her, please?
Noelle Tarr: She is so busy. She does so many other things, and I try not to bother her when it's like that, she's like, “Hey, I'm--”
Melanie Avalon: I feel like she is me. She says so many things, I'm like, “Oh, that is me.”
Noelle Tarr: I know. You guys are so much alike. Yeah. Obviously, I'm not an intermittent faster and I have experimented with it. It's just not right for me. I guess according to some people I would be because I do naturally stop eating at 7:00 or 7:30. I cannot stand having breakfast until maybe 10:00 or 11:00. That just was what feels right. Now if I wake up and I'm super hungry, then maybe I'll have something, especially if I didn't eat. Sometimes I don't eat dinner, sometimes, let's be honest, maybe a few times a year. I don't eat dinner because of whenever my stomach is not feeling right, or it's sour, I just ate something wrong at lunch, so then, I'll eat an earlier breakfast. I've always felt better, having that bigger gap between dinner and breakfast, which I think is very natural for some people. It's not restricting. It's not anything like, “I should push my breakfast back, so that I eat less lunch,” which I think a lot of people do, or the classic diet culture like, “I'm going to drink more coffee so that it suppresses my hunger.” It feels natural for me.
One of the things that I have found to be a very interesting topic is, I wrote a big article on Cycle Syncing, that is syncing what you're doing, so your life, your macronutrients, your exercise, to even what you do, your productivity, to your cycle. When we look at other things that you can do, like intermittent fasting, it seems there are times for me personally, in my cycle, where it's easier to just-- or it feels more natural to me to not eat until maybe 11:00 or 12:00. So, I have that traditional 16:8 hour fasting window unintentionally. Usually, that's between day 1 and 10. So, that would be from day 1, the day you bleed, until day 10, which is maybe like a few days before you're about to ovulate, around ovulation, fasting becomes a little bit harder.
However, in that follicular phase where your estrogen is slowly rising, you have more energy, you're actually more insulin sensitive. It's very easy to have bigger fasting windows there. If you can play around with that, and see if that feels right for you, I love that idea. I love the idea of just syncing your life to your cycle. Also, just fluctuations. I feel like we need to normalize fluctuations. It's normal to not eat the same exact number of calories every day, not have the exact same macronutrients every day. Macronutrient ratios every day. Some days, we need a little bit more carb, and other days we don't. We need to just normalize that because I think diet culture is this idea that everything needs to be strict and the same every single day. That is not our bodies. That's not how our bodies work. I had some questions about cycle syncing with intermittent fasting and I just wanted to touch on that. Do you want to-- now that we're--
Melanie Avalon: I know how to segue. I’ve got a segue.
Noelle Tarr: Okay, because we're pushing on the time here.
Melanie Avalon: Would you like to hear the segue?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, go.
Melanie Avalon: I cannot agree more about the role of seasons and everything that you just said about adjusting things and not doing the same thing day in and day out. But do you know what does make a big difference when you're doing the same thing day in and day out?
Noelle Tarr: Skincare? [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: I just finished reading Dr. Jason Fung’s The Cancer Code, because I'm going to be interviewing him soon, which is really, really exciting, because he's basically the fasting man. After reading his book, Noelle, I finally understand how daily exposure to carcinogens causes cancer. I know, we think carcinogens cause cancer, but now it actually makes sense. Would you like to hear?
Noelle Tarr: Please tell me about it.
Melanie Avalon: Basically, our cells, when they're exposed to something really toxic, if a cell is exposed to damage or toxicity, if it's so toxic, or damaging that the cell is completely damaged, the body kills it through a process called apoptosis, so it dies. If it's just barely damaged, the body repairs it, so it's healed. When cells are chronically exposed to just a little bit of damage all the time, chronically, what happens is they're not killed by the body because they're not damaged enough to create that signal, but they're not repaired because they're also not damaged enough to create the signal of repair or they're just not repairable because it's like this chronic low-grade exposure. The cell has to actually, in order to survive, it has to go rogue and take care of itself because the body's not handling it.
What they found with cancer is it actually reverts to unicellular life. It basically takes on all the characteristics of selfish cells before we became an organism where cells work together as a team. With our chronic exposure to carcinogens, they're in this gray area of being damaged, what do they have to do to create energy? They start doing all of these things that just support the existence and the growth of that one individual cell, and that's what a cancer cell basically is. Then the mutations continue with this cancer cell, it grows, it metastasizes, and here we go. I just found that absolutely fascinating.
One of our biggest exposures to carcinogens each and every day is our skincare. I just think this is so huge because we're basically putting on skincare makeup, most of us are, every day filled with potentially 1000s of compounds that have been banned in Europe due to their toxicity, their carcinogenic nature, the US has banned around 10. There's no regulation. That is something where I think day in and day out, it's having a huge impact. That was my segue.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, that's a great segue. I also have to just commend you on your selfish cells. I love the pun there. That was fun. I like a good pun. Yeah, I think that hit me really hard when I had my daughter. I actually was still using a bunch of cheap CVS makeup when I had her because I could not find makeup. Everything that I had tried that was “natural” performed like crap. I love makeup. I am a makeup person through and through. I did ballet in from age four and the best part about it for me was like getting dolled up and doing costumes and being on stage and having makeup. I have always been a makeup kid. I just love it. I could not find anything that worked well. Actually, a lot of the stuff that I had tried, made my eyes watery and itch. Now I know what that is, it was likely because of the contaminants. It was the mineral makeups, which are typically higher in contaminants. It really hit me when I had my daughter because I read a study about parabens and phthalates being, and we were talking about how to pronounce that. Phthalates, that's why I had said that with a smile.
I read a study, and it wasn't evidence-based PubMed thing. It was just more of an independent testing that was done on just looking at blood levels of parabens and phthalates, which are known endocrine disrupters, meaning they can act like estrogen in your body. They basically had a couple-- I don't know how many it was, but I do know one of the women was like being interviewed. I remember her in particular, it was with a big news, with ABC News. Basically, they had her use a bunch of products for five days, conventional products and then stop using everything and start using clean beauty or safe skincare for five days. Almost instantaneously, like parabens and phthalates, they tested her blood and it was skyrocketed, the amount that was in her blood. The moment she stopped using it, it all dropped. It was an instantaneous response or result.
They also talked about how it can be found in urine and also breast milk. I was like, “Whoa,” because that to me was like I don't want this stuff in my breast milk. This is supposed to be this nourishing whole food for my daughter. That's when it hit me and I just was like, “Eh.” I ended up joining Beautycounter for the discount because it was, again, I did the thing where I asked five different friends that I trusted. One of them being Liz Wolfe, who is a master researcher, and she was actually trying to start a company a lot like this one. That's what she wanted to do, and then she found that Beautycounter is doing it, so she was like, “Oh, well, I'll just buy everything from here.”
Melanie Avalon: I didn't know that.
Noelle Tarr: She was a huge fan of it and was just like, “Just try it.” I just went ahead and join bought all makeup because I was running for-- I wanted the discount, which happens a lot with some of our affiliate products, too. I'm like, “Is there affiliate program for this that I can just join and buy this with a discount?” And I loved it. Then I started slowly using the skincare because, again I was using coconut oil to clean my face and nothing else, and my skin looked dull, it looked dry, it looked tired. It's because I wasn't using products that had active ingredients that is ingredients that have known proven effects. Things that we know can actually change the skin and nourish the skin and improve the lipid barrier function or reverse fine lines and wrinkles or whatever. There are actual Ingredients, both found in natural oils, so like argan oil and also synthetic ingredients that are like vitamin C, that’s a huge one, different forms of vitamin C, that have proven known effects, known impacts on skin.
Once I started using those products because I was so scared to use anything, so I just resorted to coconut oil which was doing nothing for me. It was basically drying out my skin because it doesn't completely absorb through your-- it's great for removing makeup.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, especially for removing eye makeup.
Noelle Tarr: Yes, it's not a moisturizer. Don't get that twisted. Coconut oil is not a moisturizer, does no moisturizing. Once I started using safe, clean products that actually had active ingredients. My skin totally improved, and now I feel a lot better about it. It's insane thinking about-- gosh. I had a moment where I pulled out everything under my bathroom cabinet, and I pulled out everything from-- Oh gosh, I don't even want to admit it, the Banana Boat Self-Tanner, and everything basically that I used from my teens and 20s. I looked at all of it and it was packed. Packed with known carcinogens. Basically, synthetic fragrance is one of those catch-all terms that is in so many products, that can contain widely known carcinogens and endocrine disruptors, and they can just call it fragrance because it's proprietary. Everything had fragrance, everything had different type types of parabens and phthalates. It was really empowering just to get rid of all that and simplify.
I know it can be really complicated, but I think it's totally worth it. Again, it's one of those things that we have to do moving forward because we're all exposed to things that we can't control. The air around us, we're walking outside, and as much as Melanie tries to change her air in her home with her 8 million Alen air purifiers.
Melanie Avalon: I have five.
Noelle Tarr: Okay, [laughs] there are things that we can't control. I want to be able to shift the things that-- I want to be able to make choices. I'm not going to keep things up in plastic. I'm just not going to do it. I'm not going to use skincare that I know has known carcinogens and parabens. It's those little things that I think add up, like you said daily, this daily chronic exposure that we can completely eliminate, so why not?
Melanie Avalon: For listeners to clarify, Beautycounter. You can just buy the products, you don't have to sign up, just to clarify. Also, they were founded on a mission to remove endocrine disruptors because didn't the founder-- was it her sister-in-law or something that had hormonal problems, like a miscarriage? It was something like that.
Noelle Tarr: I don't know that. No.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. The founder, Gregg Renfrew, I’ll have to check, but it was somebody in her family was having miscarriages, and she realized the role of endocrine disruptors. Then, she realized that our most basically biggest exposure is through our skincare makeup and that there was no regulation. There's also things called obesogens, that was a question Miranda said, “What are common obesogens?” Some of the endocrine disrupters, they literally cause our bodies to store and gain weight, they mess with our fat cells. Our body sees these as toxic and stores them in fat cells to protect us. Then, so that means we're holding on to these toxins, they can send out inflammatory signals, they can mess with our appetite, when they actually ever do come out, when we do burn the fat, they can create a lot of detox effects, they can injure the cells in the process. It's really, really shocking.
Noelle Tarr: I think it's so interesting that our body-- I mean, it's a protective mechanism that our body does to store toxins and fat cells and to store estrogen and fat cells. I mean, it's just not good.
Melanie Avalon: A big one people often think of, retinol, for example. Catherine said, “Why is retinol bad? Why would dermatologists approve creams if they have bad chemicals? What are some of the top chemicals to avoid?”
Noelle Tarr: I don't like to talk bad about any doctors or what anybody chooses to recommend or not recommend. But I can say that plenty of doctors recommend medication that has known side effects, that have known potential issues. What I like to do is make choices for myself for things that are-- if something is a known endocrine disruptor, or a known carcinogen, or there's preliminary research that might suggest there's a problem. I'm not really willing to be a lab rat and expose that to my body if it's not known to be safe. So, this is a much bigger question because the entire pharmaceutical industry is this. Doctors recommend plenty of things that are known to be high risk, but it's a medication and it has an impact, and it might solve a specific problem, but at the same time, create another.
Benzoyl peroxide is a big one that's often prescribed, and it can be very harsh and negatively impact your skin. The safe alternative is salicylic acid. That's what I love to use. I went to the dermatologist and complained about some little tiny bump, I was like, “This is okay, right?” It was like a tiny little cyst. I'm hypersensitive to every change. So, I'm like, “Is this okay?” And she's like, “Oh, yeah,” it's just like a tiny little-- it'll resolve. Here's some high prescription, like benzoyl peroxide.” I was like, “No, no. I'm cool.”
I came home, I put a little S.O.S. Spot Treatment, 2% salicylic acid on it, it was gone within two days. They're all are safer alternatives. Unfortunately, it's changing an industry like that is not easy. If something is-- I'm not going to say certain, like harmful ingredients are actually pretty effective. Retinol is effective, but it has negative impacts that it has risks. So, that's why people still prescribe it.
Melanie Avalon: Can I jump in about the Retinol?
Noelle Tarr: Oh, yeah, please.
Melanie Avalon: Because I've known about Retinol since middle school, and I was like, “This sounds really terrible for your skin.” If you think about it, what is it doing? It's encouraging your cells to turn over faster. That's why it makes you look younger, because it's making the cells turnover. Ever since I was in middle school, I was like, “That sounds awful. Isn't that making you age faster?” Yes, it is. Yeah, I'm sorry, I had to throw that in there. No, because I researched it now recently, and it is, it does cause you to age faster, you're going through your skin cells faster.
Noelle Tarr: One of those resources that I really love is the EWG’s Skin Deep Database, and it will break apart every ingredient, like a skincare ingredient and talk about what is the research that we have on this ingredient, which may be a reason to be concerned about it. Retinol has a few concerning things. Some people still know about this, and they choose to use that, and how wonderful is that. We have the freedom of choice. Choosing, “Hey, this might have risk, but I'm still going to use it.” I'm all about that. If you choose to use it, great. But there are some concerns, especially when it can be a reactive oxygen species when it's exposed to sunlight, and so the problems really occur when you're applying it to your skin and then going outside, your skin is exposed to the sun. So, it's in a lot of, which oddly enough, it's in some sunscreens. But, again, it's not necessarily it's possibly unsafe, it's not like this thing, it's not like a cigarette where it's this causes cancer, you need to get it out. It's one of those things that's, “Hey, there's concern with this.”
That's what the EWG does is talk through some of these, the references and here's some of the concern, and here's what's been shown in the literature, and this is why we think it's not a safe ingredient. For the most part, I agree with almost 100% on what the EWG says. The problem with some things is that there are some ingredients that could potentially-- The EWG will rank certain ingredients as being somewhat risky, simply because that ingredient typically is contaminated with like, let's say heavy metals, which are also have their own long list of issues. If an ingredient is usually contaminated, it'll give it a higher risk rating. However, if you're testing for contaminants, you're testing, you're getting that ingredient from a good source when we're talking about creating skincare products. You're getting that ingredient from a good source, and you're testing it and you're making sure it doesn't have contaminants, it no longer is risky. So, that's the only side note that I have about the EWG, but other than that, it's really wonderful.
That's why I chose Beautycounter personally, is because they test for contaminants and so many of the ingredients that people are using. It's not just about what's on the label, it's also about what are these products potentially contaminated with and a lot of mineral makeups, in particular, can be contaminated, any like color. Lipsticks and stuff like that are often contaminated with things like lead. Of course, lead has a whole host of side effects and is that chronic exposure over time, which can be really, really concerning.
Melanie Avalon: The half-life of lead can be up to 30 years. So, that means when you put on some lipstick, 30 years later, half of it might have left your bones. If lead from that lipstick went into your bones when you put it on, then 30 years later, half of it might be gone. Isn't that crazy?
Noelle Tarr: Concerning.
Melanie Avalon: Question for you, because this was like me because I was always like, “Oh, I'll just have a healthy diet and my skin will glow,” which sort of happened, because I had terrible skin growing up, like acne, it was the worst. Once I cleaned up my diet and my skin was glowing, I was like, “Oh, diet is the be-all-end-all, who needs skincare? I'll just eat my way to healthy skin.” I think that is like a big question, though, for lot of people often have. Monica says, “My whole life, I was a tomboy, and I never had skincare or makeup routine. I'm almost 40 now. So, how should I start? My skin seems fine.” Basically, if your skin does seem fine, do you need to be taking preventative action, or--?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I think that's a great question. So, you can't eat like crap, and then hope that your skincare takes care of it for you. This is the beauty of holistic health. Anytime I talk about hormonal acne, which is typically acne driven by high estrogen or whatever, or, just like, if you're having major skin issues, like overproduction of oil can be caused by poor diet, inflammation in general impacts your skin. If you have a high inflammatory diet, you're going to have more skin issues, your skin is going to be more sensitive, you're going to have more redness, that sort of thing. Number one is, of course, to have a really wonderful nourishing diet, a low inflammatory diet, and to be doing things that balance hormones. This is the unsexy stuff, like sleep and stress management, and Joovv red light therapy.
Melanie Avalon: I think it's sexy.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. Everybody's like, “How do I balance hormones?” I'm like, “Sleep and manage stress, and take care of your anxiety. Figure out what traumas you have that are causing all those digestive issues and you can't sleep at night.” Anyway, that's the stuff. I think personally, as our external organs, so your skin is exposed to environmental triggers all day. Like crappy air and pollution and your dirt and grime and smoke and you're touching your face and food and oil. I do think that even if you're not doing anything now, or you've not done much, and it's working for you, I think you still could definitely benefit from a good solid cleanser, a nourishing cleanser, that is not going to be too harsh and dry you out. Depending on your skin type, you could use a nice exfoliating cleanser that has some salicylic acid, or if you have more sensitive skin, you can use a more nourishing oil based or cream-based cleanser that would also be hydrating at the same time, and a solid moisturizer.
Moisturizer is like a cream. It seals everything in. I would start there. I'm always about starting small. I don't like telling people to jump, “Here's this five-step regimen you should start using.” No, I mean start with a cleanser and a moisturizer. Then, once you figure out like, “Huh, my skin feels really great. This is working. I'm starting to see a little crow's feet around certain parts of my face or my eyes. I'm starting to get a little bit of dark circles coming in.”
One of the things that I've noticed personally is that my skin is, I've aged now, I'll be 35 years shortly, cell turnover is not as robust as it used to be. When I get a little dry breakout around my temple, that scar will last there longer than it used to. I add in treatments, okay, I want my skin to be brighter to have more even skin tone and maybe decrease pore size. I'm going to bring in like a safe overnight resurfacing peel and do that a couple times a week, or I'm going to use counter time which is a Retinol free anti-aging product that we have from Beautycounter, and I'll apply that serum and I'll add that to my routine. Really, to me, it's about getting your staples, your cleanser and your moisturizer and then bringing in treatments according to what's your skin type? Also, what is your goal? What do you want to get from? What do you want to see improved? And I'm all about it. I'm all about proof of effects, changing your skin and improving it.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I will say for the minimalists out there because I as well, I came to Beautycounter for the makeup. One thing about beauty care that's amazing is, A, there's a lot of “natural makeup” out there but it actually has lots of terrible things in it for you. It's usually not tested for heavy metals. So, Beautycounter covers all of that. It actually works, their makeup is the bomb. I'm obsessed with it, but the gateway to the skincare for me has been-- I was telling them about the Brightening Mist. Oh, my goodness. Friends, stop right now.
Noelle Tarr: Can I just tell? I’ll throw myself under the bus. I was like, “Don't get the Mist.” There's nothing special about it. Don't worry about Mist.”
Melanie Avalon: Because I was like, “What is this Mist?” It was really calling to me, I was like, “No, don't get it.” [laughs] I got it. Friends, it is changing my life. I am spraying it on my face like 24/7. It's amazing, especially if you want minimal, you just spray it on, it gives you a glow. I feel it tightened my pores, it is the bam, it is the jam. I don't know what the phrase is.
Noelle Tarr: We're so showing our age with bombs, and you're the bomb.
Melanie Avalon: I know. I know. I know. It's amazing. Wait, can I ask you one last question about Beautycounter?
Noelle Tarr: Yes. Brightening Mist, I think that why you like it so much is because it does have this little bit of vitamin C in it. Vitamin C is an antioxidant, just we take it internally to help boost our immune system and fight off viruses and stuff like that. You can actually apply it topically and it does help to reverse some of that oxidation that we are exposed to and that causes some signs of aging. Vitamin C is a great tool for brightening your skin, and for you, I don't know why. I'm like, “Why is somebody going to spray a mist on their face?” Melanie has figured it out.
Melanie Avalon: You know how I said my diet made my skin glow? Fruit was what made my skin glow. It makes me feel like I'm spraying fruit on my face.
Noelle Tarr: Don't go do that, Melanie, please. Don't pineapple juice on your face. Okay, I know you. Okay, don't do that.
Melanie Avalon: Actually, quick tip for listeners, as you can use it as a makeup setting spray, which I'm really excited to try, I haven't tried it, but quick tip. The best makeup setting spray in my opinion, Witch Hazel. Have you used this? It'll change your life.
Noelle Tarr: I have, not as a makeup setting spray.
Melanie Avalon: Single ingredient. It sets your makeup, it's like Urban Decay All Nighter, except better with no toxins and makes your makeup stay all day. Little fun fact.
Noelle Tarr: Interesting.
Melanie Avalon: One last beauty question for you. Lindsey says, “What's your morning routine and nighttime routine? I'd love to hear what products you absolutely love and couldn't live without with, as well as those you weren't impressed by because, come on, not every brand is perfect, right?”
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I think we just addressed that.
Melanie Avalon: Brightening Mist, even though I'm obsessed.
Noelle Tarr: Like, “What's your morning skincare routine?” So, I laughed because it's just every influencer’s like so, “So lot of people are asking me about my morning skincare routine. Here's what I do.” I just feel so cheesy doing that, but--
Melanie Avalon: This was a real question though. I did not create it.
Noelle Tarr: I know. This is like you guys are actually asking. Here's what I do. I'm into cycle syncing my skincare, so I really like to take assessment of what's my skin doing dependent on my cycle. When my cycle came back with my second child, I noticed that I was breaking out a lot more. I just had some bigger hormonal shifts with my cycle coming back and it took quite a few cycles for things to get reregulated and for my cycle not to be-- for my period, my menstrual phase to not be super heavy. When I say cycle, I'm talking about that month-long process, not just your period. Your period is day one to seven-ish, that's your menstrual cycle, but your entire cycle’s truly-- I say menstrual cycle, but it's really your period or menstruation.
Your cycle is actually a four-phase month long, 28-day-ish long thing that every woman goes through that cycling and has a period where your estrogen rises and you have your period, then your estrogen rises, then you ovulate day-14-ish, then you go into your luteal phase, and progesterone rises and then everything drops. I am always assessing, “Where am I at my cycle? What is my skin need?” I find that my skin needs more of an exfoliating and salicylic acid cleanser in the mornings, every morning now, so I use that every morning. I've been doing a lot-- my skin's been doing way better with that.
Melanie Avalon: What type of skin do you have? I know it might change with the cycle, but is it--
Noelle Tarr: I have very normal skin. Normal. It used to be very dry, but it wasn't actually dry, it was just that I was using coconut oil. This is the other thing that I think a lot of people are like, “Well, my skin is super oil,” or, “My skin super dry.” I'm like, “Well, yes, but also sometimes our skin responds very negatively to like lack of proper skincare, or maybe we're not finding the best fit,” and so then you use a bunch of products of [unintelligible [01:14:22] and you're like, “Whoa, my skin is super dry now,” so you overdid it. That's where diet and all that comes into. I have a very normal skin, it does tend to be more dry. If you put an oily pad on my face, those pads that from our days in high school where you would press it on your nose and then it'd be like, “Look at all the oil.”
Melanie Avalon: Oh my gosh. I forgot about those. Those were the thing.
Noelle Tarr: Everybody did those. I never had oil on those things. I do know that I trend more towards dry and that wasn't because of anything I was doing specially. It's just because I trend more towards diet, but I'm normal skin, so I use a salicylic acid, a clear poor cleanser. I use a vitamin C serum, it has changed my life. My listeners on here probably like, “Please don't go into this again, because I love this.”
Melanie Avalon: I haven't used it yet, but I heard you talking about it on the recent Well-Fed Women Podcast and I was like, “I'm sold.”
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it. I think it's amazing. Vitamin C is probably my favorite active ingredient for skin and how it changes skin, but also just protecting your skin, like having additional antioxidant protection, the All Bright C Serum has it. I use All Bright C Serum in the morning, and then a very light-weight, I use something called the Countermatch Adaptive Moisture Lotion. Very lightweight moisturizer because I don't like my face feeling like there's something on it. Moisturizer, I don't do liquid foundation. I just don't like feeling like something's on my face. So, that's what I do in the morning very simply. At night, I do all anti-aging stuff. We have a cleansing oil which is amazing, as part of the Countertime Collection, which is an anti-aging thing. I like using a more nourishing oil-based or cream-based cleanser at night, and then I use a very specific Countertime Serum, and Countertime, it's called the Antioxidant Soft Cream at night as my night moisturizer.
I do use toners as well. I didn't mention that, but I feel toner is just something I use all day, which actually couldn't be the brightening facial mist if I really wanted it to be, but I actually use something from Primally Pure called the Everything Spray. I spray a few on a pad, a cotton pad and I wipe my face down after I cleanse. I also just use that throughout the day. I think it's great, like after you work out or if you've gone for a walk or something and you're a little bit wet along your brow or something, it's just nice to freshen up your face. It's stringent as well, so it clears and tightens pores. I love that Everything Spray as well. Things that I don't like-- [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Or maybe what you would like to see, better rendition.
Noelle Tarr: I would like to see a powdered foundation for sure. I use-- I can't remember the brand now. I also like felt-tipped liquid eyeliners.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, I love the Beautycounter liquid eyeliner.
Noelle Tarr: I need a felt-tip, so I use one from Honest Beauty. I did some research, Honest Beauty is a great brand too. Not as high quality, but it does the job, for sure.
Melanie Avalon: Actually, I use the Beautycounter liquid eyeliner and then I use the felt-tip from an old one and that's how I like fix it.
Noelle Tarr: Sounds super efficient.
Melanie Avalon: This is a true statement.
Noelle Tarr: I don't think there's anything-- I'd have to like bring up the Beautycounter website. Like I said, I don't get the mists. I'm going to put this out here. This is going to be probably very controversial. I don't really like facial oils. I recommend them a lot because people love them, but again, maybe it's me that I don't like a lot of heaviness on my face, but people love facial oils.
Melanie Avalon: Because I haven't used one, do they absorb and then like--?
Noelle Tarr: They do, yeah. You can use them as a treatment, you can add a drop to your moisturizer, but I just hate the feeling. I Gua Sha at night, which is like using a stone, which again is when I got from Primally Pure. I have really overreactive lymph nodes, something's going on in my mouth and don't want talk to me about your oral whatever infections because you're going to freak me out, so I don't want to hear about it. Something's going on in my mouth, so I got a throat infection like two years ago. Ever since then, my lymph nodes underneath my jaw-line-- sorry, this is going really long. Underneath my jawline, some are just a little chronically reactive. I found that when I Gua Sha that is doing like facial lymphatic flushing with a stone, like a facial massage with a stone and encouraging lymphatic flow in my face, it knocks it out completely. Some sort of stagnation is happening with my lymphatic flow in my face. I would use the oils with Gua Sha, and I hate it. I have to use a cream, so I use a Supreme cream.
Melanie Avalon: Would you like to know what would show you if you have an infection going on?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: A cone beam scan.
Noelle Tarr: Aren't those things really expensive, though? Didn't you get one?
Melanie Avalon: I did.
Noelle Tarr: And you were fine, right?
Melanie Avalon: It can be reassuring. I was convinced I had some chronic mouth infection. I was just convinced, and I don't.
Noelle Tarr: See, you get in your head though a lot with things that you're like, “It is this,” and I'm like, “But you don't know that.” So, I'm glad that you proved yourself wrong.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, I literally know that I know nothing, that's like my--
Noelle Tarr: I know, you know a lot.
Melanie Avalon: But I don't. My left brain is telling me stories about my life that aren't true.
Noelle Tarr: But I know how it is because you get in your head and you think something is there and then it's just nice to hear it's not.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, this is true.
Noelle Tarr: Anyway, I think we've been talking for really way too long. My kids are probably downstairs screaming for dinner, but it's fine because they have my husband. You were like, “Hey, can we keep going for a little bit?” I'm like, “Yeah, whatever. I don't care, my husband can deal.” They're in capable hands.
Melanie Avalon: For listeners, switch over to Beautycounter is the moral of the story. You can shop with both of us. We both have links. Mine is beautycounter.com/melanieavalon. Noelle's is beautycounter.com/noelletarr. Would you like to spell your name, Noelle?
Noelle Tarr: Yes. N-O-E-L-L-E, folks. Not like N-O-E-L. That’s Noel, okay. I'm Noelle.
Melanie Avalon: How do you spell Tarr?
Noelle Tarr: T-A-R-R.
Melanie Avalon: There're so many ways you can spell Noelle Tarr, like beautycounter.com/noelletarr. I could think of 50.
Noelle Tarr: Oh my. That's a lot.
Melanie Avalon: N-O-E-L-L-E T-A-R-R-.
Noelle Tarr: My maiden name was horrible. I thought moving over to Tarr would be so easy. Then, somebody just called me Noelle Tear. I was like, “What?” I realized like, “Oh, maybe it's not so obvious.” So, yeah, T-A-R-R.
Melanie Avalon: So, well.
Noelle Tarr: Oh, my gosh, was this helpful at all, folks? Because this was just so long.
Melanie Avalon: I found it helpful listening to you. No, wait, Noelle, the funny thing is you think this is long, this is short for this show, like I will go up to three hours. I did one that was four hours the other day.
Noelle Tarr: Oh my, Melanie. What in the world? How do you that?
Melanie Avalon: He had a really intense book, Joel Greene.
Noelle Tarr: Gosh.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, this is short. This is average actually. An hour and a half is average.
Noelle Tarr: I'm feeling self-conscious right now. I'm like, “Ugh.” I just talk so long about I don't know what.
Melanie Avalon: That's so funny. Well, the last question I asked every guest on this podcast, and it's just because I probably asked it last time, it's because I think mindset is so, so important surrounding everything. What is something that you're grateful for?
Noelle Tarr: Hmm. I don’t want to say my husband because that's so cliche. Y'all, I really do. I have the best husband, I could not--
Melanie Avalon: This is true. I can attest to this.
Noelle Tarr: I married up for sure because I couldn't do anything, for sure-- like nothing with my business without his word. He's made life decisions around me, which has been just such an incredible thing in a society that doesn't typically-- it doesn't usually recognize, like female needs and career and entrepreneurship and all that. So, it's been amazing.
Melanie Avalon: To bring everything full circle.
Noelle Tarr: I know. I think I'm just really thankful for-- I think it's happened this year, in 2020, I've become much more aware of the value of my community, and the people who listen to this podcast and who intentionally shop with me. I had a lot of people in this community email me and say like, “Hey, what's your link for this? I want to make sure that you get credit,” or whatever. And that just blows me away. There are people out there who intentionally go out of their way to support me, because they appreciate the work that I've done. Oh, my gosh, I'm tearing up about it. Sometimes the work that we do, we're just passionate about it, and we keep pushing forward, and you have so many not wins, like you have so many times where you don't think anybody's there and you're just pushing on and you think what you're saying, you think the podcast you're putting out and you think the information you're putting out is helping people, but you really don't know.
Then, you get that positive email or that DM that says like, “This changed my life. This information changed my life.” Maybe just because it's 2020 or whatever, and I've been more present on social media, I've gotten more of that this year. I'm just so thankful for that. I'm thankful for a community who is like-- I truly do feel we're community. You know how people say that, like, “This tribe,” or, “This community,” like-- I actually do feel the people who listen to my podcasts and follow me on social media, it is a positive force. The people that I get to interact with on a daily basis are amazing. And they're not hating and they're not canceling everybody and they're not trolls. This year, it's just been like-- I've been so I think overwhelmed with the negativity and the hate and the discord and the anger. And it's been nice to just even-- I have to give huge props to my co-host too because she is just amazing. We have different beliefs on many things, but she and I are just-- we have a very similar philosophy and just how we treat people, and kindness, and not throwing people under the bus and trying to see everybody's perspective. I'm just thankful for her, I'm thankful for this podcast community, I'm thankful for people who lead with kindness and lead with love, and really do intentionally try to support me. That baffles me. So, yeah, I really appreciate everybody.
After November, obviously, we had a pretty crazy November. Melanie and I both did. I was able to see some of those results, and it was really nice. So, anyway. Did I just ramble on? I'm so sorry.
Melanie Avalon: No, that was so beautiful. Literally, every single thing you said is exactly how I feel as well. I am just so grateful for this community. I know at the very beginning I mentioned negative iTunes reviews. That's mostly all come, like when I first-- on the Intermittent Fasting podcast, which is a much-- it's not my community, it's a much broader, me and my co-host, that show is really high in the iTunes ranking. We get millions of downloads. So, of course, you're going to attract all types, but this show, this community, my Facebook group, you guys are like the best thing ever. I'm going to start crying too thinking about it. They're just so kind, so open, so loving. I got robbed this year, and all my electronics were stolen. You guys started a Care Fund for me, and I was able to buy all my equipment again from it, it was also helpful. Yeah, I'm just so grateful every single day for this show, for the content, for how it resonates. Like you said, when people email and say how it's affected them, or those emails too, where they say, “Oh, I want to make sure that you get credit.” I'm just like, “Wow, that just means so much,” and the kindness.
Noelle Tarr: It's just nice to have a safe space. I never open my Facebook group and think, “Oh, gosh, what's somebody going to be arguing about today.” Even in my DMs. I'm Christ-centered. That's what I lead with, and so that's what I want to emulate. I'm not interested in fighting you on A, B, or C issue. That's what my content centers around, maybe that's part of it. I have to acknowledge that's part of it, too, because I'm not deep in the throes of controversial issues. That's fine by me, but my DMs are not filled with people trying to disagree with me or throw me under the bus or call me out or cancel me or whatever. It's because of just the community, they all lead with kindness, everybody leads with kindness. It's just really nice to have that safe space and to have faith in humanity after so much hatred and discord. Sometimes I have to take a step away from social media because it's just so bad, like looking at other people's comments, just, ufff, so anyway. Not this group.
Melanie Avalon: I know, not you guys. The two groups that we're talking to. Actually, you've impacted me so much. You pulled me into Instagram, and I pulled you into Facebook groups.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, that's true. Facebook group has been really awesome. So, there's been a lot of good discussion. I appreciate that recommendation, because that's been really nice.
Melanie Avalon: Likewise, with the Insta.
Noelle Tarr: Girl, we’ve got to go.
Melanie Avalon: I know. This has been wonderful. I don't know how to end. Do you want to put your links out there? Do we want to do that?
Noelle Tarr: Sure. I've just linked to everything in the show notes. How about that? Like Beautycounter [unintelligible [01:28:54] did that. Primally Pure, I do have a code, it's COCONUTS for 10% off everything, because my blog name is coconutsandkettlebells. If there's something we talked about that I missed, I'll just put the links in the show notes. How about that?
Melanie Avalon: Perfect. I'll put links in the show notes to all-- because I do have discounts for all of those biohacking things I talked about. BluBlox, Joovv, chiliPAD.
Noelle Tarr: Do you have a discount on the ring?
Melanie Avalon: I'm interviewing the CEO, and I'm going to have the interview go really, really well. I'm putting this out to the universe. At the end, I'm going to be like, “Hey, I don't have a code. Can we work on that?” Straight to the CEO.
Noelle Tarr: Got it. Well, I will wait for that. How about that?
Melanie Avalon: Well, I actually asked my Facebook group. I was like, “How many of you would it be a deciding factor, a code, to get the Oura ring?” Over 100 people commented, so I sent them that. I was like, “See.”
Noelle Tarr: Wow. You're on it. You're like, “Look at this discussion of everybody who wants a coupon code.”
Melanie Avalon: I'm friends with some of his friends, so I'm like, “Can you text him and be like, ‘Hey, can you give Melanie--” [laughs]
Noelle Tarr: Oh my gosh, Melanie.
Melanie Avalon: “--give Melanie a code.” I’ve got to get a code for the listeners. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. This has been great, Noelle. We should do this next year, I guess.
Noelle Tarr: I'm sure, we will, Melanie.
Melanie Avalon: Annual event. You can plan for a three-hour one next time.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. We'll be like, “What questions do you have for the Melanie and Noelle Annual episode?”
Melanie Avalon: Yes.
Noelle Tarr: All right. Thank you, Melanie. Thanks for chatting. Go to-- is it melanieavalon.com?
Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes, melanieavalon.com. The show notes will be at melanieavalon.com/noelletarr. N-O-E-L-L-E T-A-R-R.
Noelle Tarr: You can find--
Melanie Avalon: There will be a full transcript at the show notes.
Noelle Tarr: Oh, wonderful. My website, you can find more about me at coconutsandkettlebells.com, and my Instagram is @coconutsandkettlebells. All the information on the Well-Fed Women Podcast is on my website. And, of course, just you can listen to the show anywhere you find and listen to podcasts.
Melanie Avalon: Like you are right now.
Noelle Tarr: Like you are right now.
Melanie Avalon: I'll talk to you later.
Noelle Tarr: Okay, bye.
Melanie Avalon: Bye.