The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #243 - Ken Ceder

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)


Melanie Avalon:
Friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation that I am about to have. So the backstory on today's conversation, this is just really exciting because it's about a topic I've been talking about for years and years and years, honestly, ever since my biohacking journey, except not exactly. And what I mean by that is I've talked for a really long time about red light and near infrared therapy. And I've been using devices for that, like I said for so many years and experienced so many benefits. And I was always wondering, actually, in addition to that, I also was combating the blue light side of things by wearing blue light blocking glasses. So I was super aware of the potential negative effects of blue light, as well as all the potential benefits of red light and near infrared light. That said, I felt a little bit siloed in my approach. I always sort of wondered if maybe I was missing something or was the best approach to only be looking at these specific wavelengths and was there something beyond that. I kind of had it on my radar to research. It was kind of just something I really wanted to get to. And then as often happens, it came to me. So the fabulous Ken Cedar, who is honestly just one of the coolest, most kind, amazing, savvy human beings that I have met. It's just been so wonderful getting to know him. He reached out to me about his light devices, which are full spectrum. And of course, I was so intrigued based on what I just told you. And we did a call and in the first call that we had, it really just blew my mind. He knew so much about light and his devices that he makes, like I said, and we'll talk about in this episode, were something that literally I just wasn't aware of and nobody has been talking about. And I immediately knew I had to try out the devices. He was so kind to send me his devices. So I can tell you my experience with those. And I knew we had to have him on the show. So Ken's mission is to spread awareness about something that he calls malillumination. So we will be diving deep into that. But Ken, thank you so much for being here.

Ken Cedar:
My sincere pleasure, Mel, it's been a long time coming. I'm just so happy to be here as well.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I just I really loved getting to know you over. I mean, it's been quite a few months now, but we've had so many incredible conversations about all of this. And I just so appreciate the education and awareness that you're doing as well as the product creation because, you know, you saw a problem and you helped create a solution there. So to start things off, your personal story, what made you so interested in light? Why? Why are you doing this today? What led to that?

Ken Cedar:
Yeah, thanks, Mel. Well, it's kind of a crazy story. I had been working for the CEO of a famous old toy company years ago, Make a Long Story Short. I had completed a project with him and fortunately he was very pleased with my work. And he said, you know, he said, instead of working for me, why don't we be partners? I've got a whole bunch of deals, you know, proposals on my desk. If you find something you like, we'll be partners. I'll back you and, you know, instead you'd be working for yourself. Make a Long Story Short. I went to his office and on the top of the pile was an old videotape. I stuck it into the machine and lo and behold, I saw the work of this fellow whose name was Dr. John Ott. And most people that are not familiar with light may not be familiar with John, but anybody that's familiar with Walt Disney would certainly know John's work. He was a famous, what they called time lapse photographer. And a lot of the work for Disney, including the growing of the pumpkin for Cinderella and on and on was the work of the late Dr. John Ott.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, I didn't know that.

Ken Cedar:
Oh yeah, yeah, and there's a funny story I'll tell you about the pumpkin and Cinderella and Walt Disney. If we get to it, if you remind me, I'll tell you really a funny story about that as well. All said, I was just totally blown away. I'm sort of a visual guy, kind of a lazy reader. So to see the work of John Ott, flowers unfolding and all kinds of things, I was just mesmerized. Make a long story short, I went to my friend whose name was Harrison Harry. Who the heck is this guy? And he went on to tell me that actually that he was supporting some of Dr. Ott's research in those days of television and radiation, which was another story again, that most people probably don't want to hear about, but it was shocking the radiation that was discovered coming from TVs, and you know, at least years ago, I'm not really currently up on TVs and radiation. However, the fact remains, Harry introduced me to the late Dr. John Ott, that the outcome of that meeting was a license agreement that was to make special lights for him, his patented lights, and that was the beginning of my relationship with light and light therapy for lack of better, and it was Ott Light Systems in Santa Barbara, California way back in the late 80s, I guess it was.

Melanie Avalon:
So what type of light was it the same type of devices you're creating now?

Ken Cedar:
You know, yes and no in this respect. First, it was fluorescent. These days, we're dealing with LED, light emitting diodes. When we were making lights for Dr. Ott, it was based on his patents, and it was the best light at the time without question compared to anything else that was out there. The fact is, though, that it was limited with some of the research that's come out years later. So the primary difference was it was fluorescent lighting, that's the first thing, and that we deal with LED lighting, which is more current and much more energy efficient, although fluorescent was energy efficient in its day.

Melanie Avalon:
What was the purpose of the light? Was it for his creative work or was it for health purposes?

Ken Cedar:
Yeah, the original art light was a patented product that was actually a light fixture. However, prior to the light fixture, John was working for a company as a consultant called the Duro Test Company. I believe they were in Chicago, again, many years ago. And the Duro Test Company in its day was quite a substantially large manufacturer of fluorescent tubes. And John, being a photographer and being a horticulturist, he was very much interested in simulating daylight, or generically known as full spectrum light, which is a phrase or a term that John coined with respect to artificial light that's endorsed. It's like sunshine. Anyways, he got them interested and they manufactured the first full spectrum light tube. In those days, it was called Vitalight. And Vitalight was the first and only, I think, patented full spectrum fluorescent tube. And it was really quite a famous product in its day, mostly sold in health food stores. But Vitalight was a patented product, as I say, and it was doing very well. And John became a spokesperson for the company, promoting the value of the Vitalight. However, I think it was about three or four years into the promotion, John was doing some work that started with Walt Disney. And he discovered that the fluorescent tube, the Vitalight that he was promoting, some of his research identified that plants would grow fine in the center light emissions from the tube, but on the ends, what they call the cathode ends, he was discovering that plants that he had put in front of these lights, that the ones closest to the cathodes, they were having stunted growth. And then after the stunted growth period, they were turning into cancerous growths for the plants that were closest to the cathodes. Well, John went ahead and tried to get some meters to confirm, you know, but there was no meter that was validating or that was sensitive enough to understand what was going on. So he did some of his time lapse photography work, and for weeks, he literally nonstop photographed the process from start to the finish. And what he discovered was that the light that was coming out of the cathodes, he discovered was what he called low -level X -ray radiation. And he was able to determine that it was X -rays because when he put a lead shield, much like if you went to the dentist, when you get an X -ray, they put like a light apron in front of you, he was able to put this, what do you call it, lead shield, and it's stopped the stunted growth. When he took the shield away, the stunted growth continued, and so did the cancerous growth later in the process. So the point is that John discovered that fluorescent tubes that were lighting up the world and still do, that the cathode ends were causing low -level radiation, and that low -level radiation, unfortunately, was causing cancer. Thus, the fact remains that cancer is coming from all these fluorescent tubes. And a little anecdotal note that may be relevant would be the fact that US Navy did research on sailors on the high seas with a light of the sun, of course, shining off of the ocean, and they compared it to sailors that were working indoors administratively. And what they were looking for was skin cancer. Well, you can almost imagine, because of the story I'm telling, the research demonstrated, ironically, that the sailors on board ship had less problem with skin cancer than the indoor office workers that weren't in the sun at all, which was shocking, but the fact remains that was research, US Navy.

Melanie Avalon:
I mean, that's really crazy because I think, you know, so many people are concerned with skin cancer and obviously UV radiation is involved in that, but I think people, you know, people think that we need to just stay out of the sun to protect ourselves when it sounds like really there are a lot of other causes of cancer and that we may be missing, you and I have talked about this, you know, are we missing nutrients from the natural light outdoors?

Ken Cedar:
Yeah, and you're really right on. The irony is that, without question, when you're outdoors, and I jokingly call it having unsafe sun, and you're out there burning up when you should be taken little by little by little, there's no doubt that not being out there with a little bit of intelligence, yes, you have a good shot at getting skin cancer. However, the irony is the number of skin cancer cases are far less than the benefits of that same sunshine for reducing other types of cancer, as well as a host of other ailments. So you're right on the money to the degree that too much sun not wisely used, so to speak. Yeah, that's going to be a problem. But the irony is that the benefit of the sun far outweighs the number of cases of skin cancer compared to breast cancer, colon cancer, that are actually reduced because of the fact of the full spectrum light, and especially the UV.

Melanie Avalon:
That's so crazy. So with his realization about this light and cancer and all of that, so what was the evolution in the lights that you were creating?

Ken Cedar:
The fact is, in those days, although John went from the vitalite, as I mentioned that fluorescent tube, when he discovered the problem, he then made his own patented product, which was then known as the art light. And the fact is that the art light was a fixture versus a light tube. And the reason very quickly was because he had to create special shielding in order to benefit, or rephrase that, in order to reduce the problem of that low level x -ray. Fluorescent tubes also put out another form of radiation that's coming from the tube, as well as the fact that they are lacking in the UV that was essential to reduce some of the cancer. So the fact is, he went and made a fixture called the art light. However, as much as the light was by far the best product out there, it was not only expensive, but the fact remains, it never addressed the other side of the invisible spectrum. Instead of the UV, John never addressed the near infrared side. So what we've done that's different and moved from fluorescent to LED, our lights are based on the same premise, but we have added near infrared to our full spectrum recipe, if you would. And if you don't have the near infrared, unfortunately, as much as full spectrum light is by far better than limited spectrum, it has wonderful benefits. However, it's sort of like a, what would you call it, a Trojan horse, where you're getting something good, but there's something hidden. And the hidden factor is, if it's out of balance, long -term use contributes to macular degeneration. So any indoor light source today, do I just say every indoor light source today for general lighting, basically what I call white light, full spectrum or otherwise, if it does not have a balance of near infrared wavelengths, and none of them do. If it does not, it means that over time, those indoor artificial lights that everybody is living and working under are all slowly but surely contributing to macular degeneration, which is shocking, but the industry does not acknowledge that, but it happens to be the truth.

Melanie Avalon:
So I've mentioned these words a lot like near infrared and blue and red and now, you know, it's full spectrum. You are as well. So just for listeners, like what is the actual difference in these different types of light?

Ken Cedar:
Good point, of course. The first thing is I'll start with where I just left off. Our particular light ranges from what they call 350 nanometers on one end of the spectrum, which is the blue, the UV side. So we have a little bit of a trace of UV, a minute amount, but a trace of UV. Then we have the complete visible spectrum, basically the white light that we see when we're outdoors. Nature is light. And then on the far right side, or the far opposite of the blue, we have near infrared light. Now, the fact is that near infrared is invisible, and ultraviolet is invisible. Of course, the visible spectrum is what most of us are used to, whether we're outdoors in sunlight or whether indoors under artificial light. Now, the first thing is blue light. There's been a lot of press, of course, and you're very familiar with it, of course, yourself. But there's been a lot of press about blue light and electronic devices, our phones, and our computers, and things of that nature, and warnings about too much blue light, especially at night interfering with melatonin. And melatonin is a hormone that's very much associated with sleep. So blue light has gotten the reputation that it's, if not dangerous, it's harmful. But it's not harmful in the sense of all day long. It's harmful only when the sun goes down and it's interrupting the flow, or the manufacture, of melatonin. During the day, blue light is absolutely essential. It's essential for alertness. It turns on serotonin. Think blue sky. I mean, there's so much blue out there, just the blue sky is mind -blowing. So you need blue during the day. And the fact of having blue -blocking glasses, although I'm not opposed to them, I would not recommend them personally until the sun goes down. Now, some of the blue blockers are very low on blocking all of the blue. Some are specific to a primary wavelength. So I'm not that knowledgeable about all blue -blocking lenses, but some of them are better off, do I dare say that I would recommend versus others. But the point is, without getting into blue blockers, the blue light is essential during the day, and it should not be in your vision during the night, and thus blue -blocking lenses, or shutting down your lights at night, and if possible, turning on red lights. Simple red light will not impact that melatonin. So that's the blue light story, if I might, for just a moment. On the other end, again, the invisible side, is the near -infrared, and red, as well as near -red, which is big time, you know, I think that a lot of people these days, even those that are not bio -hackers, you know, that have any interest in health, especially beauty as well, photobiomodulation, the kind of a funny little word that's all about red light therapy and near -infrared. A lot of people becoming familiar with that. It's great for recovery from your exercise. It's great used to reduce pain. It's magnificent from the beauty perspective to reduce little crow's feet on the face, and wrinkles, and build collagen. So near -infrared and red, also known as photobiomodulation, is really big in the news, big in the health world, and it is extremely, extremely popular. I think that the fact of the visible, the full spectrum, generically, is for health. The near -infrared and the red side, although it would be technically referred to as limited spectrum, the benefits are just amazing. It's almost too good to believe. I think the last time I looked, there was an excessive 4 ,000 peer -reviewed papers with the benefits of red or near, you know, together, or individual. So the basics of blue side, the red near side, and the visible, there's three different basics that I would associate with light, in addition to, which I think I left off, the ultraviolet on the invisible range of the blue side.

Melanie Avalon:
So for the full spectrum light, if you combine just those three, the near infrared, the random blue, and some of the violet, is that full spectrum light or is there other things in there as well?

Ken Cedar:
You know, that that would be what I would refer to as true full spectrum. Most people these days, do I dare say most manufacturers other than consumers? The majority to the best of my knowledge, if you were to Google full spectrum light, the majority would be all about visible light. That is to say they would be negating the ultraviolet. Most of them refer to ultraviolet as being harmful, which ultraviolet is essential. It's definitely harmful if you have too much. But it comes to us naturally and whoever invented the sun did not make a mistake. So the ultraviolet to suggest that it's harmful is that's just not a true story of the full story. The fact again is most full spectrum light, I do I dare say all of the manufacturers are strictly the visible white. Do not include the near infrared, which is invisible and do not include the UV as a general rule.

Melanie Avalon:
So I had mentioned the different light devices that I've been using with red and near infrared. And before meaning you, I had also been using, because now there are a lot of these daylight or these sad lights on the market that you can get on places like Amazon. And they're just bright white lights that you can use to treat, well, they say to treat like depression or to wake up in the morning. So those lights, you can't speak to every company, but in general, those lights, what type of light are they emitting?

Ken Cedar:
Sure. Most will refer to as sun -like or full spectrum would be the usual term that's associated as an adjective to identify their light. Most of them will say simulating sunshine. Again, that depends on your definition. To simulate sunshine in the visible, I would agree in most cases, and most of those lights, the greatest majority, will have a benefit for about 87% of the users will reduce their depression. However, because they are lacking in the near infrared, and they're loaded with the blue side, they are out of balance. All of those sad lights, I'd venture to say every single one of them, at least to the best of my knowledge, as much as they may reduce your depression or reduce your fatigue, which I would agree in general, but they're not telling you because they don't follow the signs, the true sounds. They're technically out of balance, and they don't have the near infrared in there for over long term use. The research is out there by others, not by me. Those lights would be contributing to macular degeneration. The near infrared is absolutely essential, just as it is in nature. The near infrared is there from morning to evening. As a matter of fact, at noontime, it's about 50 -50, meaning about 50% in the near, 50% in the visible. In the first thing in the morning, and in the late afternoon as the sun's going down, it's probably about five to one in the near range versus the high noon. The fact is, sad lights are beneficial to a degree. They refer to them as full spectrum or sun -like. Unfortunately, I believe they don't follow the signs. Therefore, by not following the signs, they're leaving off a critical piece of information that they're basically hazardous, especially to one's biology, but most importantly to your eye health.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, this is just so, so crazy. Just to focus one more on part of the light. So the UV that you add, is it the same amount as the amount found in the sun? And is it the same type? Like, is it UVA or UVB? What type of UV is it?

Ken Cedar:
That's a good point. In our particular case, in our product, it's UVA and it drops down to the nanometer, would be 350 nanometer, which would be in the UVA range. Our light is about 6% is in the UV, but it's really quite, we can refer to it as, if it's the right word, a trace amount would be what we would actually call it. So there's enough for a biological benefit, but it still is quite minute. We do not suggest that our light would help you with vitamin D, although I must admit, depending on the individual, in some cases, it will affect your vitamin D. But again, it's not promoted as a vitamin D light by any means. We do not have UVB, which is associated primarily with the manufacturer of vitamin D. We bring in the UVA primarily for the reason being that UVA is about 90% of what you get in sunlight versus about 10% would be the UVB. So as far as we're concerned, because there's so much UVA, we felt it was essential to bring it in. At the same time, we didn't reach into the UVB for a combination of reasons that had to do with engineering in general.

Melanie Avalon:
In the ideal situation with engineering, would you want to include some UVB or how do you feel about that?

Ken Cedar:
Yeah, as a matter of fact, I'm glad you asked. We had that on the drawing, but when we made lights for Dr. Art, again, a million years back, about 35 years ago, at the time when we were Art Light Systems, we sold two different versions of Dr. Art's light. In those days, as you may, well, you're too young to remember, but in those days, UV was so much more controversial, because unfortunately, the pharmaceutical companies were blaming the sun for being the bad guy when it really wasn't. It was their way of being able to sell all of their chemicals and stuff that you put on your skin. It was at that time is when these sun protecting lotions and stuff were just coming out. And so the pharmaceutical company was blaming the sun in order to sell this stuff for your skin to cover up. Unfortunately, most of that stuff was more cancerous than the sun itself could ever be. But the fact is, the UV in those days, we used to have one light that we called the winter bright, which was a satellite that had no UV for those folks that were concerned about UV. And then we had a similar model that purposefully had the UV that we refer to as the natural bright. So interestingly, although we don't have more than a trace amount in our current iteration of lights, we do anticipate that we will probably, in the future, as we grow, being a little non -profit, a kind of a fledgling organization. But as we grow, we anticipate to probably replicate our thinking of days gone by and offer one of our systems as a plus model that would give you the UV of the UV in a greater volume for those folks that choose that versus those that don't. Again, that controversy is hard to get over. So we leave that to the public to be informed as they see fit.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, that's super exciting. It's always exciting to hear about, you know, the evolutions and the developments in a company. And I remember when I first met you, for example, you waited a little bit to send me a unit because you just had a new development in your own units, which was actually a future that I wanted, which was to have the near infrared running longer than individual sessions. That was what had changed, right?

Ken Cedar:
Yes, you are correct. In our current little light panel that we call sole photovites is the model. It's a little light panel that probably most people would initially associate with SAG. The original model that we started with had what we called two modes and the protocol was 15 minutes with a little timer that's built in, 15 minutes of the full spectrum that included the near infrared and then that 15 minutes would be followed by 15 minutes of the near and therefore the protocol was a half an hour. What we've changed, we're just in the process of now putting it out to the public, it's crazy that you even say it, literally just starting now is that we've added the equivalent of a, I'll call it a third mode with a near infrared. Instead of being just on a timer for 15 minutes, the users will now be able to have it on as long as they want, not on a timer and that's a benefit that would allow you to have the near, especially when you're computing for eye health or any time during the day. Instead of having to keep putting it on every 15 minutes, you'll now have the choice to be on the timer for 15 for the morning protocol or to use it without a timer all day long as much as one chooses.

Melanie Avalon:
I love that so much. And so basically, cause like I said, you were so kind to send me the units. And so I have the device that you just mentioned on my desk. And so in the morning I do the full spectrum session and then I switch it to the near infrared and like we talked about before, and you kind of mentioned just now, I use it to combat the light I'm getting from my desktop and you know, the other lights I have to light up the space. So it's really, really great. I love it. So speaking of the eyes, you told me something that had never occurred to me, but it was so fascinating. And it was the role of our eyes exposing our blood to the outer world. Can you talk a little bit about that? What is the effect of light entering our eyes and its effect on the blood? I'd be happy.

Ken Cedar:
that you're reminding me, the fact is that most people may not be aware of it, but all of the blood in your body basically passes through your little eyeballs about every two hours give or take, which is pretty fascinating if you think about that for a moment. So if the other thing that I want to mention too about the eyes, if one were standing naked in the noon day sun, ironically, the largest organ of your body, the skin, would only be bringing light into the body, the light's energy 2%, which is kind of shocking if you think that the largest organ brings in only 2%, and I think probably most all of your listeners especially are very familiar with the importance of vitamin D. So if 2% hits the skin, the largest organ, and benefits vitamin D, what does that suggest that the smallest organ, your eye, brings in 98% of that light energy into your body by way of the retina directly to your brain, the voltage of your nervous system and your brain of course is electrical, we call that photo current. It's a nice fancy word for, guess what, L -I -G -H -T, just plain old light that enters your eye, regulates your entire brain chemistry, regulates everything that you in a sense that you say think or do basically is coming from the light that's entering your eye whether you know it or not, it's regulating your life.

Melanie Avalon:
That is so crazy. Yeah, that just really never occurred to me. And something else we talked about is, do you have ideas about how it might affect our metabolism or our eating patterns as far as our circadian rhythms go?

Ken Cedar:
I sure do. The fact is that technically light entering the eye regulates, I shouldn't say regulates, ignites your metabolism. As a matter of fact, metabolism is 100% dependent on light. The fact is that most people may not realize it, but I'll make a simple analogy if I might. In days gone by, as a youngster, I worked in Dear Old Dad, I worked in his auto shop, so I was sort of a grease monkey into cars and all that went with it. The idea of a combustion engine was established in my little brain a long time ago, and I'd like to make a comparison for the audience with a combustion engine of an automobile and a human combustion engine, if you would. Both the automobile has fuel, of course gasoline in most cases, and for humans, we have of course the primary nutrition that we take in. Both the automobile as a carburetor, or in some cases fuel injection, but a carburetor to bring oxygen in for combustion, and of course in humans we breathe, we have lungs that bring oxygen in in conjunction with the nutrition that we consume. In the automobile, we have a spark plug that ignites combustion, it is the spark that causes the combustion to occur. In humans, the spark for combustion is light that enters the eye. So humans are a combustion engine of sorts, a biologically combustion engine, just like an automobile, and as I say, metabolism is 100% dependent on light.

Melanie Avalon:
And then also for people who drink a lot of coffee, for example, is there an energy potential to light? So can we use it like caffeine? Maybe not to that extent, but what effect can it have on our energy levels?

Ken Cedar:
Absolutely and again we even make note of that in our little brochure for some of our products that you can literally use from a therapeutic perspective. One could literally use our little light panel anytime during the day in addition to using it first thing in the morning primarily to set one's circadian rhythm and to energize and as I say ignite that metabolism. One could use it anytime during the day the almost the equivalent of a cup of coffee you will really feel the energy charge it's quite fascinating and I'll add a little anecdotal funny story way back when when I was hot light. I remember coming into our office in Santa Barbara when I first started with Dr. Art and we had a little light panel like our so -called satellite if you would was on a pedestal and I remember coming into the office I was the first one there early one morning I said does this damn thing really work does it really energize. I remember literally getting down on my knees because that light was down quite low and flipping on the switch and staying pretty close to the light maybe a foot away three minutes five minutes I'm not sure and I was blown away that I really felt like I just drank ten cups of coffee at that moment. So the energizing effect is absolutely vital it's absolutely real and I'm willing to say that anybody would be able to validate it but more than that we have research at our website if somebody goes to soulshine .org or the scienceoflight .org either one but the point is we have research that identifies that that vitality the energy of the sun was actually measured and they found that folks that were obviously in the sun more had a higher level of vitality than those that had less. So there's research a lot of people speak of different supplements and nutrients for vitality but the truth is the real research comes right back to old sunshine more sunshine more vitality more sunshine enhanced immunity the research is also at our site so when you're indoors your immunity is taking a beating when you're indoors your vitality is going down if you can't get out in the sun you forgive me promoting our products but the very bottom line we've got the best thing second only to the sun to reduce any of the problems associated that we call malumination.

Melanie Avalon:
No, this is so, so incredible and I'm so passionate about it. And speaking of like the promoting aspect, so you are a nonprofit. What was your decision to go that route?

Ken Cedar:
You know, my brother, Len, and I were art like again, about 35 years ago, we're best friends, we're business partners, when we were little boys, we shared the same room, then we get older, we get married, we had our own homes, then we get divorced, and we moved back together, the good news. And now we got our own bedrooms, we're not in the same room, but as business partners, we were basically, I guess I'd say somewhat retired in Melanie, you know, after the sale of the company and raising our families and then on to grandkids or whatever. And about 12 years ago, I believe it was that we decided to start the nonprofit to raise awareness about malumination, because I truly do have, because of John, I can still do, I think you can easily hear my passion for light and its importance. And we recognized more and more as time, you know, especially I guess, probably because of the grandkids, that folks were spending so much time indoors. When I was a kid, you couldn't get us to come in from play. Now my grandkids sort of, you can't get them to go out to play. So we really got on, you know, on and on and we said, you know, let's let's do a little nonprofit, we're sort of getting bored, getting old here. And we started the nonprofit, basically raising awareness, pretty much online was our effort, you know, a website, of course, and pretty much for about 10 years, we were strictly raising awareness, communicating, you know, a little bit here or there, but trying to simply bring attention to the website. And share information about malumination and the importance of light. Because of the newer technology of LEDs over these last few years, and especially the research associated with near when I realized not so long ago, that lacking near infrared was causing the potential of macular generation. And that John Ott didn't know that, nor did I making lights from, I was sort of blown away and said, Oh my god, nobody's doing this. We're out here pitching the importance of light and full spectrum light, we better go check and see if we can find somebody that will help us engineer and make a light that includes the near infrared. So for about 10 years, we were raising awareness strictly now as a nonprofit, we were fortunate enough to be able to find that engineer engineer the products that we now call soul shine photo nutrition, and we were able to basically now start to promote and support ourselves by the sales of these light units where we've accepted donations and unfortunately, very few people have donated for us to tell the world that they should get sunshine, although we've had some and we appreciate, you know, from the heart, every donation. But the fact is now selling these lights, not only benefits the user, but of course it supports our nonprofit. And that's really been a boon, you know, a real boon for us.

Melanie Avalon:
That's awesome. So to clarify because I'm so fascinated by business and entrepreneurship and things like nonprofits. So the products themselves are part of the nonprofit. They're like supporting the nonprofit or they a separate company that supports the nonprofit.

Ken Cedar:
That that's interesting that you ask. We are ironically in the eyes of the irs. I never knew the term existed But we are a hybrid Nonprofit crazy, but if you google it, you'll see that that's a term that the irs recognizes and the reason they recognize that Or at least I remember phrase that I believe with respect to ourselves I don't know if this is across the board with the irs, but my understanding from the irs for us Because the product that we now sell Was something that supports our mission and more than supports the mission It did not exist in the marketplace. There are as we've already covered lots of full spectrum lights But none of them really simulate sunlight properly or most importantly safely So because it didn't exist And because it supports our mission we're able to be identified as a hybrid Nonprofit basically being able to make and sell although we will be paying a tax I believe and again, i'm not savvy with the tax law at the moment, but I do believe Profits are not tax -free We're allowed to do it as a non -profit But I do believe if i've got my facts to get that there will be a tax I believe Associated we've not dealt with that because we've not made enough profit yet to declare them into the government We will at the end of this year, but make a long story short. That's what we are a hybrid Nonprofit in the eyes of the us government irs

Melanie Avalon:
That's so interesting. I didn't know I was gonna learn about all of this today. I love that. And it's tax season right now. And it's, you know, taxes are crazy. Okay, so for users, so these lights, because clearly, you're so passionate about this mission. And, you know, you saw the need for this product that didn't even exist and created it, which I'm just so grateful to you for. So the everyday user getting these lights, what is the spectrum of, you know, benefits or uses that they might experience? Like, are there a few different things that people might really benefit from, like with sleep or depression or things like that? And compared to like a biohacker who just wants to enhance their life? Basically, what's, how should we use these?

Ken Cedar:
Sure. Let me address a question I think that you actually touched on that I went right past. One thing for certain, morning light, and there's research again at our website, I speak of sunlight of course, but morning light actually has the benefit of keeping your waistline in check. You can actually benefit from morning sunlight or morning light therapy with respect to anyone that's concerned about dieting, they ought to really check out the research because light therapy or more so technically morning sunlight will definitely benefit without question one's waistline. So, Weight Watchers be aware that light is important especially first thing in the morning. With respect to that same thing about morning, although the light is important all day long obviously, ideally the most important part of the day to set one's circadian rhythm which is essential for your rhythm almost every cell in your body has a little clock if you would that's associated with what's called circadian rhythm and we need to be in sync with daylight and our circadian rhythm needs to be in sync with nature's rhythm. If you think about jet lag that would be an exact example of being out of rhythm with time zone. So, it's essential to have light first thing in the morning admittedly preferably sunlight if it's available if you can't get sunlight or you can't get it consistently or simply inconvenient our little light would be the ideal first thing in the morning to do that protocol that we've already mentioned that 15 minutes and 15 minutes a half an hour of light would set your circadian rhythm by setting your morning rhythm you would be setting basically your evening rhythm of sorts in the morning would actually be about 12 hours later preparing you for sleep. So, the fact is circadian rhythm especially morning light critical vital can't say enough good about it you know that circadian lighting essential first thing in the morning there's other benefits as already mentioned of course just your level of energy would be improved the fact is that you want light all day long we have a different light that's not specific to therapy little floor light that I think did I think we might of course we sent you one the fact is that the floor light would be much more for general environmental lighting all day long but the benefit very far reaching the primary most important is setting one's circadian rhythm getting one energized and at the same time preparing one as long as it sounds 12 to 14 hours later basically preparing one for sleep.

Melanie Avalon:
that circadian rhythm piece is so huge, and I don't know if you listen to Andrew Huberman's podcast ever, but he was recently talking about, you know, what you just said about the role of exposure in the morning to really set your bedtime later, ironically enough. He actually said something I had never heard before, and I want to fact check this, especially because I've been like fact checking some other things he said, and they were like, I don't know. I just want to fact check it. But he said that our exposure to light and how it affects our circadian rhythm, that it only has an effect on the over... I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but basically, it only has an effect on our overarching rhythm when we're exposed to it during certain time windows. And so, like, the example was that if you woke up in the middle of the night and were exposed to, you know, the wrong type of light, it wouldn't actually affect your overarching circadian rhythm compared to when you're exposed to it in the morning or evening when you're naturally exposed to different types of sunlight. That's when it's like setting up your sleep -wake cycle. And I could be slightly getting it wrong, but that was the gist of it. That blew my mind. I'd never heard that.

Ken Cedar:
Yeah, I would say, first of all, I have high regard for Andrew, quite frankly, I've not really listened to many of the podcasts, but in general, I have high regard for his research and I feel a little that I have come to know, I agree with probably 99% of what I've read. I don't really know to address that, the only I can tell you is there's no doubt in my mind that morning light, absolutely critical, no two ways about it. As far as the evening, we've already touched on, it's not so much of disrupting your circadian rhythm specifically, although it would, light at night would be moving your rhythm forward, but I would say that light, if you woke up in the wee hours hypothetically and it was light, it may not affect your circadian rhythm when you woke up specifically, but the light would affect the flow of melatonin. The research that I've read and it was years ago, just a slight amount, I mean almost infinitesimal amount of light versus true darkness, it actually interrupted melatonin, so the slightest amount of light at night, ideally one should be in a very darkened bedroom if possible and if there is any light whatsoever, it's perfectly okay to be in the red, like the caveman that evolved, so to speak, with fire in the cave, that red will not interrupt the melatonin, but any kind of light, blue or white, basically your average white light in the bedroom, just a minute amount would definitely impact melatonin much more than anybody would realize, so if possible you want to sleep in as much darkness as physically possible and if you're going to have any kind of light, especially if it's a nightlight, make it red.

Melanie Avalon:
I cannot agree more. I'm so, so passionate about all of this. And so another question about the users using the light, how might it affect, so we talked about, you know, people's sleep rhythms and circadian rhythms and energy, how might it affect their mood?

Ken Cedar:
It definitely is going to elevate your mood. There's no two ways about it. If you think of SAD, what SAD, of course, most people associate it with, you know, with winter depression. A lot of people associate it primarily with, you know, like upstate New York, you know, or someplace like Washington state. The irony is when we were making satellites 35 years ago, some of the greatest amount of sales were in, ironically, in sunny California. And the reason being, although SAD was noticed when the sunlight changed in the winter, but that same problem of SAD technically was happening whenever you were indoors, we called it malumination. So what I'm suggesting is although SAD is a term, you know, that's valid and well accepted these days, in a sense, I see SAD, quite frankly, as malumination. So the fact is, yes, light will energize, it will reduce depression. At our website, again, there's, if you, I'm trying to just think without looking at the website, Melanie, under research, I believe, if you'll find it on our website, you'll see loads of information about different types of depression and the research associated with depression and light, very, very beneficial. And I think that it's about, some ways between 83, 87% of the people that are really struggling find benefit quickly. In some cases, the very first day.

Melanie Avalon:
It's so amazing and so I'll tell you how I'm using everything and you can let me know if this is correct. So or actually before that we keep touching on the different devices. Can you just pun intended enlighten listeners on the different devices that you offer?

Ken Cedar:
Yeah, sure. Thank you. I'd love to do that. Of course Currently we have two basic products We have a little light panel that i'll say is specifically for therapy the little light panel and then we have a light bulb And the light bulb is intended although it's therapeutic. It's intended more so for general You know environmental lighting now the light bulb comes in two different products If you would one is a little clip on You know with a cord in the switch that you literally clip Well to a tabletop or a desktop or wherever it might be convenient to take advantage of using that light The same light bulb comes in another configuration, which is what we call the sole telescope. It's a floor light It's very lightweight quite slender. It has a telescoping Telescoping shaft and at the top has a gooseneck. So it's it's quite zen as you know And it's really the ideal for convenience that it gives you as i've already mentioned environmental light all day long However, both the light bulb clip on as well as the floor light They are both rated from two feet away of what they refer to as 10 ,000 lux a measurement that's often associated that is required for sad light sufferers The fact is so therefore the light bulbs are absolutely could be used as sad lights But they also are multi -purpose when they become general lighting as I say for You know conventional indoor environment lighting for people pets and plants especially good for reading crafting or just general sitting like like if you're Especially for seniors if there's a lot of seniors that are indoors shut in it would be lovely Just like a grow light for plants to have that light showering a senior Wonderful, especially for computer operators where one would position a floor light or a bulb if they could between the computer The computer monitor and the user you would have that light sort of in between the two of you Showering down toward the keyboard light would be entering into your eye from above Kind of like sunlight and the beauty of it besides being able to see by it and our light offers what we call Maximum visual acuity the best color contrast But would also be able to reduce the effect of the blue light and the emf that's coming from the computer screen It's not going to stop that radiation But if you can sort of think black and white makes gray Our light would basically help to mitigate the blue light and would help to mitigate Excuse me the emf that's coming from the computer So that the products are basically a bulb in two delivery systems And then we have our little light panel which we've touched on especially is more therapeutic Ideal for morning use in particular for circadian rhythm ideal throughout the day kind of like a cup of coffee for a boost of energy And certainly ideal all day long or into the night on the near infrared in particular Which you can use, you know, especially before bedtime The near would help to prepare one for sleep a half an hour to an hour of near at night would be a great idea Especially if somebody's having sleep issues. So the fact is there's three separate products However, there's only two we regard one is a light bulb and one is a light panel

Melanie Avalon:
So I'll tell listeners about how I use these devices, but just as a note, and I'll say this again at the end, but Ken is so kind. Listeners can actually get 10% off these orders at soulshine .org. So thank you, Ken, for that. And that's the coupon code Melanie Evelyn for 10% off. So the way, and again, you are so kind to send me the devices and I love them. And I will say my experience of this full spectrum light that it emits, it definitely just intrinsically or intuitively feels different from the standard American lights that I had been using. I just absolutely love it. It feels more, it feels like real light. I don't know. Like it feels, it feels nourishing in a way, um, it's hard to describe, but so the way that I use them, I have, like I said, the panel and I do the full spectrum session in the morning and then I run the near infrared to kind of combat all of the blue light and all of the exposure, especially around my computer situation. And then I have the bulbs, which I use to light up the space as well as I was going to ask you about this. I have a lot of indoor plants and I've been using those on the plants as well. Is that a good use for them?

Ken Cedar:
Yeah. And we love to say that our lights are good for people, pets, and plants. It's absolutely ideal, you know, for that. And I may touch on something, Mel, if I might, with respect to, you made reference, I think you jogged my thought with why do we call our light soul shine photonutrition? Of course, we've already touched on the fact that John Ott identified, gosh, 40, 50 years ago, that light is absolutely a nutrient. I mean, if you think of UV vitamin D to some degree, that gives you an idea of the potential of light, you know, catalyzing nutrient value. But what a lot of people will not know besides the value of our light being full spectrum from that range of 350 in the UV all the way into the near infrared upwards to 1000 nanometers. The point is that not only are you getting nutrient light value or what we call photo nutrients, but here's something that few people will know. All foods, for that matter, expensive vitamins that you ingest, if you do not have the true full spectrum of light entering your eye, you will not metabolize whatever you have just ingested. For the sheer fact that we've touched on, metabolism is basically so associated with light and the essential need for it. Therefore, if you don't have the full spectrum, I hate to say it, a fair amount of the nutritious value from all of your nutrients, especially expensive vitamins that I'm sure a lot of your biohacking constituents make good use of, you would be basically sending some of that nutrition, pardon my words, right straight down the toilet bowl.

Melanie Avalon:
Wow. It's so, so crazy. I have a actually really random tangent question really quick that just occurred to me. It's something I've wondered for a long time. It's something that I've noticed on because like I said, I've been using red and near therapy devices for a long time. And I noticed it on your panel device as well. When you run the near infrared only part of it, you can still like it's invisible, but you can still see that it like, like there's something red in the back of it. Do you know, is that just part of the production? Cause the other units do it too. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Ken Cedar:
Yeah i sure do you wouldn't see it in the light bulb as much because the white in the light bulb.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, you don't see it in the light bulb.

Ken Cedar:
Right. But when you see just the near by itself, because we have five different wavelengths of near, and therefore we have five different ones that we purposely want to create this large, you know, broad band of near. Some of them will glow a little bit in the red simply because of the nature of where they are in the spectrum being closer to the visible red and then progressively moving into total invisible. So what you're seeing is some of them, as I say, based on the wavelength may glow a little bit red and some will be completely invisible, but it's just the nature of the little LED chip. Again, I don't know too much about the engineering of chips, but that is the basic, you know, that's the basic reason why some will look red and some will simply be invisible.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, I've wondered that for so long because like I said, the other brands, the panels do that as well and I've always been like, is that? I'm like, what is that? Because it's like in the background and you see it, you don't. Yeah.

Ken Cedar:
I guess, again, like I said, not knowing that much specifically about LED manufacturing. It's simply inherent somehow in that range of spectrum that gets into the invisible. But it dawned to me too, of course, your audience and your podcast, of course, is the buzzword is biohack. It dawned to me that maybe, if not closing, but toward a closing thought, something that might be kind of interesting, especially to biohack, is that I'm confident, as you've already touched on and we're very familiar with red light therapy or a photobiomodulation. What we do that's unique, by the way, that I think that a lot of biohackers are just starting to wake up to the idea of the full spectrum versus the limited near and red. As much as they're magnificent, they're still limited for the sheer fact that they're not full. They're not including the rest of the spectrum. Most people that use photobiomodulation, I think it's fair to say, they'll use it for localized. You may aim it toward a place in the body that's pained or you may aim it toward a facial for crow's feet or collagen. But the point is the general term, even for full body, it's still basically localized. We brought a new term or a new concept where we refer to our light, especially our little light panel, as blood photobiomodulation. Where we basically, as already mentioned, shine the light into the eye because that's where most of your energy enters the body through your eye. Because the light, the near range, as you've already mentioned and have experienced, is very soft and gentle, when that red light is coming into your eye and it's radiating the red blood cells in particular, it's circulating through the whole body. Our light, our blood photobiomodulation, is systemic. It's not just localized, it's affecting the entire system. Again, it's not that we're in conflict with photobiomodulation, but we're giving you a different spin where instead of putting on goggles in many cases to block the light from coming into your eye, we're purposely giving you gentle light to purposefully come into the eye. Like I say, the fact of biohackers in particular, I would really encourage the audience, without trying to sound too much like a salesman, to check out our information about photobiomodulation in relation to blood photobiomodulation, I think they'll be in for a great surprise and hopefully a product that they may never have even thought about before being a fuller spectrum than the limited spectrum of the reds.

Melanie Avalon:
I love that so much. And like I said, I'm just to bring everything full circle. I was just so haunted by this question because intuitively, I really liked what I was doing with the red light devices, the near infrared devices and the blue light blocking, but I just felt like I was maybe missing something. Like it wasn't quite the whole picture and this just explains it. I've just loved having these devices in my life and I'm so grateful to you. And really, I haven't seen anybody else doing this and especially not spreading awareness about it. So thank you. And I have to ask you, I really want to know what the Cinderella story was.

Ken Cedar:
I'm glad that you asked that. I forgot about it myself. And it's a wonderful closing thought. And this really may really talk about tying it together. When John was working with Walt Disney, doing a host of different movies and things that showed time lapse photography of flowers unfold, just all kinds of really incredible work. I remember as a kid, seeing some of his work with Walt Disney that was on television in those days. Anyways, John was hired by Walt Disney to grow the pumpkin for the Cinderella movie to make the pumpkin into a coach for Cinderella as probably most anybody that knows the Cinderella story. And so John proceeded to go into what he called his laboratory where he was growing, it was in Chicago and an indoor grow area. And he started to grow the plant for Disney, the pumpkin seed. And I don't know much about horticulture, but John explained very quickly that pumpkins in particular or pumpkin seeds, as they start to sprout and grow, they flower both male and female flowers. Well, John started the procedure and for some reason, I don't know whether it was male or female, but he was only getting one of the flowers to show up on his plants. And thus the plants were not growing all the way into becoming a pumpkin. He was pretty frustrated and went back to Disney and said, you know, Walt, he said, I'm having a problem growing that pumpkin for Cinderella's coach. What do you think about we make a tomato for the coach? I got great pictures of tomatoes. And Disney said, no, I want a pumpkin. So John went back to the drawing board and he was still having the same darn problem. I know quite serendipitously in the midst of trying it all over again, a fluorescent light tube overhead in his grow area went out. Didn't give it much thought, went out to the hardware, picked up another fluorescent tube, didn't give that much thought, just grabbed the tube, stuck it back in place and proceeded with the project. Now, lo and behold, whatever he was getting male or female initially changed. Now he was getting the opposite. So if he was getting all male, now he's getting all female. He scratched his head, couldn't believe what was going on, but being a good observer of nature, he said the only thing that changed was the light over his head. Lo and behold, he realized that moment that the light was regulating the chemistry, that was regulating the chemistry, the biology of the plant. That was his aha moment of recognizing the importance of light on plants that then led him into the research of light on laboratory animals, although I take a little issue to that, but laboratory animals and then ultimately with humans and the laboratory animals, he discovered something shocking, which I'll touch on. And that was that lights, using fluorescent lights, John used different color fluorescent lights with laboratory mice. And he used from pink fluorescent to white fluorescent, I'm not sure what the other one was, and then natural sunlight. The laboratory mice under the pink fluorescence lived half as long as the lights under nature's sunlight, which is simply suggesting that longevity, one, if people are interested in health span, which we've already touched on, that you get energized from light, it reduces depression, it elevates your mood, not only does it add to one's health span, now it adds to one's lifespan, the longevity that so many people may be seeking and spending millions and billions of exotic research. The simple fact that the light that you're under indoors or the light that you should be under outdoors absolutely has an impact on you. on healthspan and or longevity, which is shocking but true. The fact that what John saw, then with children, what he saw, so he went from plants research, because I just mentioned with these laboratory animals and light and longevity and healthspan, excuse me, lifespan, he then went into the classroom where they put hidden cameras, time -lapse cameras in the Sarasota School, in a Sarasota School, I think it was a one through six first grade, I believe. But the point is they had, they got permission to put in hidden time -lapse cameras. And what they captured was the lights being conventional lighting and students that had hyperactivity and learning difficulties. Then they, after time -lapse window where they captured those kids on film, then they changed the lighting in those days to the vital light that I mentioned earlier. And they found that not only did the children have less learning problems and learning difficulty, but the whole benefit of their, not their education, their little test scores, everything improved. So he was able to demonstrate that students' scholastic performance benefited under full spectrum light, hyperactivity was diminished, learning difficulties were overcome. So whether it be people, whether it be, in this case, laboratory animal for test of longevity or plants, the benefit that John discovered and brought to the world that he called full spectrum light, he labeled that term. And the negative of malumination, another term that he labeled for my money that has set me on fire for the last 35 years. And I don't, I'll be 78. I don't see myself retiring, hopefully, for a long time.

Melanie Avalon:
That is so, so incredible. I love it so much. I'm never going to be able to look at the Cinderella pumpkin the same way again. That's amazing. Did you tell you stories about working with Walt Disney?

Ken Cedar:
You know, I must admit, not that much other than they obviously, you know, he brought John was a time lapse photography innovator. And when I say innovator, all of the equipment that he used, he had to make it himself. I can't tell you what a genius this guy was. And ironically, his real profession, he was a banker. You know, this this was his hobbies, if you would, that ultimately, he became a pioneer for time lapse photography, he became a pioneer of the new science called photo biology. But the man was an absolute probably the only real genius that I've ever met didn't really have a lot of discussion about Walt Disney, other than that tomato pumpkin team, to be honest with you. But a man was just absolutely fascinating, fascinating. And that's what got me when I saw those early that early video again, 35 years plus ago, that set me on fire. And I'm sure you and your audience can hear I haven't stopped.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, no, it's, it's so, so incredible. And it's kind of appropriate analogy or metaphor or anagolous, you know, what you're creating with this light, which I just think is so important for health and, you know, mental and emotional and spiritual and physical wellbeing. You really like, it like shines through you as a person. Like you're like that type of person. I just remember when we had our first call and I was like, this man just like radiates light. Like you're so, so amazing. Like I said, I love the devices. So thank you so much for all that you're doing and your time and sharing all of this and again, for listeners, you can go to soul shine .org and use the coupon code Melanie Avalon to get 10% off your orders. I cannot recommend it enough. I can't recommend it enough for yourself, like Ken said, for yourself, for your plants, for your pets. They also make really great gifts. If you're looking, especially in the biohacking world, if you're trying to, you know, find something unique because so few people are doing this, these would make really great gifts for loved ones as well. So thank you so much for everything, Ken. This has been an absolute delight.

Ken Cedar:
I like that delight, I'm with you on that Mel completely. Thank you very much for the opportunity to share this information. It really is vital. And again, thanks so much and I appreciate the opportunity.

Melanie Avalon:
Well so appropriately enough the very very last question is very quick and I just ask every single guest it on the show to end the show and it's just because I realize more and more each day how important mindset is so what is something that you're grateful for.

Ken Cedar:
Yeah, besides my dear beloved brother, I think in all honesty, up and beyond the outer light that we've just discussed for this last hour or so, somehow I got lucky and stumbled into inner light by way of meditation to be quite frank with you. I think that in all honesty, possibly the most, if not the most important, one of the best things that happened to me, I had one of those, I actually had a couple of those things called epiphany, but they basically led to this inner light experience. But I support that primarily with meditative techniques. It doesn't have to be religious or even philosophical, but I would encourage, and I'm confident probably most of your biohacking audience is very familiar with it. I cannot, I just can't say enough good about the value of meditation to quiet the noisy chatter of the mind, to get laser focused for whatever your tasks in life. But overall, priceless. I see meditation for inner light and I see soul shine, photo nutrition for outer light.

Melanie Avalon:
I love it so, so much, and I know that's something that really, really resonates with so many people in the audience, so thank you. And for me, I'm just, again, so grateful for everything that you're doing. I can't wait to hear listeners' experiences with the devices and their feedback, and we can just continue spreading this awareness about malillumination.

Ken Cedar:
Thank you, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon:
All right. Thanks, Ken. Bye.

Ken Cedar:
Bye -bye!