The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #247 - Rachel Varga

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon:
Hi friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation that I'm about to have. It is with a repeat guest. So that's how you know it's really going to be a good one. And I'm just smiling right now. So I am back here with Rachel Varga. She's a double board certified aesthetic nurse specialist and she is so well known in our sphere. She does incredible things when it comes to education and knowing what to do and having the most optimal, safest, healthiest, beautiful, radiant approach to skincare, makeup, cosmetic things, and really tying all of that into the longevity and biohacking and health sphere, which I just totally love. And I've had her on the show before once, I think. So I will put links to that in the show notes and that episode was super popular. But since then, Rachel and I, well, first of all, Rachel and I talk all the time on things like Instagram and I've been on her show and she's just a fabulous, beautiful, incandescent human being. And we actually got to hang out in real life when we went to Dave Asprey's biohacking conference last year. So that was so fun. Actually, true story. And I think I told this on Rachel's podcast, but Rachel was the, when I went to that conference, she was the very first person that I like talked to. And it was when I wasn't going to talk to anybody because I was trying to hide because I sprained my ankle and I saw Rachel across the room and I was like, I can't not talk to her. That was such a good moment. It was so exciting to meet you in real life, Rachel, at the conference. Yeah.

Rachel Varga:
Yes, and I have to say your warmth and your energy was so beautiful to experience in real life and you came up to me and obviously if you were because we've connected online but it was just so beautiful to meet you in real life and sometimes when people follow people online they don't always get that essence of who someone is and I was delighted with your presence and your warmth and coming up and giving me a hug and saying hello and it was just an absolute pleasure to meet you in real life.

Melanie Avalon:
It was just such a good moment and I so enjoy that conference and you're going this year, right? We've talked about this.

Rachel Varga:
Absolutely. I actually have to submit my speaker details again.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, right, oh, exciting. Do you know what you're talking about yet? Wow.

Rachel Varga:
Last year I spoke on oxidative stress and its impacts on skin aging. I wrote a research article on that to basically kind of validate the biohacking side of things for the skin stuff because when I connect with people in the biohacking space and clients, they're often a little bit confused of what biohacks are actually going to make a difference with the way that they look and where to start. So that's why I wrote that paper and presented that. So I do have some ideas for what to talk about at this conference and I'm all ears if you have suggestions on what you think are our great topics to cover as well as the audience members by all means reach out and inspire me.

Melanie Avalon:
goodness. Okay, I will definitely be brainstorming and hitting you with things probably throughout this conversation as well. I will let listeners know. So I ask listeners for questions for Rachel. So I have a lot of listener questions and then I have my own questions as well. And I recently read all of Rachel's recent papers, including that oxidative stress paper that she just mentioned. So there's just so many things we can talk about. I have a question about the oxidative stress paper, but before that, how do you because I'm so impressed when people write, you know, papers published in clinical journals and such, how do you decide what topics to write on? Because like reading your recent ones, I love the oxidative stress one. And then I was reading one about Botox and fillers and, you know, jaw slimming. And it's all like very specific topics with things like that. So how do you decide what to write about?

Rachel Varga:
Absolutely. This is a great question, by the way. The first paper I wrote was on eye rejuvenation. And I wrote this paper because I was actually invited to present at one of the aesthetic, medical aesthetic nursing organizations I'm a part of. And they invited me to present. So I was like, okay, I'm going to present something based on a paper. And I wrote this paper and became really passionate about eye aging because that's also my background. Since 2011, I've performed medical aesthetic procedures, over 20 ,000 of them, roughly, and have sat in the space of oculoplastic surgery, which is pretty well the top of the food chain. So basically, you have your dermatology, cosmetic dermatology, plastic surgery, and then oculoplastic surgery right at the top. So if I encountered someone who had a negative experience with, say, something like tear trough dermal filler, which was really popular on social media about five or six years ago, I would say, where you'd see these very compelling before and after photos of, you know, someone before they have dark under eye circles, eye bags, and then immediately after that, in the after photo, immediately after the procedure, they're gone. This became so popular in every single new practitioner because I teach to they wanted to learn about how to do that. And what I noticed in my clinical practice, because I work with people online and also in clinic to do their rejuvenation, I noticed that I was seeing a lot of issues from this very popular procedure. And what was happening was the dermal filler was actually migrating and blocking lymphatic drainage around the eyes. So people would come to me from another clinic and had had tear trough filler. So it's very popular and everybody was doing it. And they were just really unhappy. Sometimes they would actually look like they were stung around the eyes by a bee and just terrible swelling and this blue Tyndall effect that can happen if it's placed too, too close to the skin and also filler can even migrate behind the eye and cause issues and all sorts of things. So I basically wrote this paper to I'm all about elevating the industry, whether it's the medical aesthetics industry or the biohacking industry and integrative and functional. So I wrote this paper to provide awareness that people that were offering these procedures and also the general public, you don't always see what can happen a month later or nine months later or seven to nine years later with issues and side effects. So I wrote that paper to provide a what I think is a safer algorithm, not just going to one thing, but actually looking at skin health with products, with maybe looking at some lasers and with maybe some other non surgical less invasive options that have stood the test of time. So at the end of the day, it's all about powerful rejuvenation outcomes and also patient safety. That's why I wrote the first paper was how can we rejuvenate the eyes and looking at my beautiful before and after photos of my dear clients over the years. I really observed that I was able to provide excellent outcomes with less invasive options that didn't carry that same risk. So I wrote a paper to, to basically substantiate what I've seen and observed. And then I actually presented it at this conference, this nursing conference, and everyone wants to learn about tear trough fillers. And here I am the new kid on the block in this group. And I didn't really think anyone would show up. And it was standing room only. And I was, I was so happy and just honored that I had that positive response to help people rejuvenate the eyes in a healthier and safer way. So that's why I wrote the first paper. And then the second paper was on jawline rejuvenation. Because again, there was a new product that had come on the market, and it's called deoxycholic acid. And it's an injectable that actually tells fat cells to die. and it became really popular again about six years ago to be injected underneath the chin for the double chin but the issue that I saw with that was if someone had thyroid disease they're not a candidate for it because the thyroid is right below the double chin area so inevitably product is going to impact that when it's placed close by there. So I thought well this doesn't actually sound like a great option and it's something that's super new and it required at least three treatments and thousands of dollars in like a month of looking like a bullfrog. Oh wow. Yeah so basically I had figured out that I can actually achieve similar results with tools and options that are already available and was just really really surprised with the before and after results that I was seeing with doing some more advanced options with products that are already on the market and so I wrote that paper to basically share that for a few hundred dollars you can reduce the jowls you can reduce the fullness under the chin and it's like why wouldn't I want to share that with my colleagues. So those are two instances where I saw some really new products on the market and my spidey senses chimed in a little bit and okay this hasn't been on the market very long we don't really know the long -term impacts and we're already seeing some issues I'm going to write a paper to provide awareness and an algorithm on some more less invasive options so that might sound like really technical but the papers are pretty technical but at the end of the day it's just to help other practitioners do better as well.

Melanie Avalon:
That's an incredible answer and it's the reason I the way when I was phrasing it well, I don't know if I what I actually said but something about how it's a very you know it's very specific topics and so I was thinking you know there's probably like a reason behind that and so it's so cool to hear you know the story that leads up to why you create the different papers and the topics I love that some quick questions just from that part of it that compound that gets rid of fat cells they still use it well they

Rachel Varga:
So interesting thing here is because I have a lot of really good friends in the industry, some of my best girlfriends are actually in the medical aesthetics industry. So let's just say I get the behind the scenes scoop on a lot of things. So I'm very well connected in both the medical aesthetics side of things and also in the biohacking side of things, which is what makes me a very unique practitioner and what's part of basically the unique value proposition of learning from me. And I actually, my spidey senses are right, but I think that this, you know, dissolving fat compound for the double chin is going to be a little bit of a flop when there's other options that are available. And sometimes, sometimes surgery for certain things is actually the most time and cost effective solution. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, but yeah, this deoxycolic acid compound for this, it ended up being a bit of a flop, but there's other applications that uses for it too, on other areas of the body and other ways to tell fat cells to die with either hot or cold or radio frequency. There's lots of great solutions, but I'll tell you personally, the thing that shifted my body composition was actually the biohacking stuff and reducing inflammation and clearing out things like parasites and basically reducing oxidative stress, which in 2019, I was in a pretty rough rear end or back end or a car crash, not my fault. And I was in so much pain, headaches, just not feeling like myself. So I did everything I possibly could to heal myself, and that included biohacking tools, and then actually was in a second crash a month, a year and a half later, on my way to the ocean to do cold plunging. So thank goodness I had all this knowledge and obviously, Dave Asprey is a great friend of mine and had been following and working with him for a long time that I knew what to do and also being a nurse myself too, but I wasn't expecting the fat loss and body composition shifts from that too to get back to your question around the fat dissolving compound.

Melanie Avalon:
The fat loss and body composition shifts from what you were doing to recover from the car wrecks.

Rachel Varga:
Absolutely, yeah, made a big difference especially with doing basically a week long fast. This was late 2022 and I did that actually in the desert at elevation and I'm used to sea level and so that tested my metabolic flexibility and I just had profound shifts with the autophagy that a long fast stimulates. That was huge as well. Combining that with healthy living and testing instead of guessing for foods and hormones and reducing oxidative stress in air water lighting electromagnetics and detoxing things also like yeast, fungi, heavy metals. Parasites was a big one for me and things like pesticides. It's never going to be one thing to look your best and have great skin and sleep and body composition. It's always going to be this consistent combination of a few key elements.

Melanie Avalon:
I love that so much. And then, you know, speaking of that oxidative stress paper that you wrote, I thought it was so cool because it basically posits that practitioners actually evaluate patients oxidative stress load, you know, before, during and after the procedures, which I mean, I don't know how many doctors are actually doing that. So it's really exciting to see you, you know, talking about that, how would that practically like, what would that look like in the office setting for practitioners to do that?

Rachel Varga:
before this actually recorded a masterclass on dry skin tips. And what I noticed, because I've been doing this since 2011, the in -clinic stuff, was around different seasonal shifts. So going from the winter to the spring, and then also the fall, or sort of the summer to the fall, what happens is going from winter to spring, pollen starts to

Melanie Avalon:
I drew a red spring with my life.

Rachel Varga:
Yeah, and depending on how full your oxidative stress status or toxic bucket is, you can see this manifest on the skin through skin redness, irritation, some things called atopic dermatitis, contact dermatitis. So usually redness around the mouth or around the nose or around the eyes. And I just started to notice these signals. This is what researchers call things that they observe, and they observe them consistently. So as a researcher, I noticed this signal. Why is there an uptick in skin irritation with the shift of winter to spring pollen? And then also from summer to fall, which is when the leaves fall and they release these compounds, which actually mold can be a little bit more prevalent around that time too from the decaying leaves. So I noticed this clinically with clients that were meeting with me, say for the first time, and they were seeking guidance on what to do about red, irritated, dry, flaky skin. And oftentimes they use something like a hydrocortisone cream because they obviously saw their doctor. And but you can't be on that for more than about three days because it can start to thin the skin. So when we're evaluating oxidative stress, when I do anyways, I just noticed this really early on. I have a really good track record of seeing the writings on the wall before some of my colleagues do and then basically create a format and an algorithm for finding solutions. It's just one thing that really I get a lot of enjoyment out of with teaching. So to evaluate oxidative stress visibly on the skin, it's going to be redness, dryness, skin sensitivity. And then for the eyes, dryness, itching and irritation. And then also the same thing goes for the scalp. So the skin tells us so much about what's going on internally. So I wrote this paper to basically get the medical aesthetics industry practitioners up to speed with the functional, integrative and longevity experts with what they know about oxidative stress and blend the two together. Because at the end of the day, people will have a greater likelihood of receiving more powerful rejuvenation and hopefully with less issues if they're seeking rejuvenation when their body's oxidative stress status is lowered. When they're healthier, when they don't have as much inflammation. That's why if people have say autoimmune conditions or they're just not feeling well or they're really stressed out or they just got off a plane and hadn't eaten enough before rejuvenation, those are oftentimes the people that I've seen that don't respond the best compared to those who are more balanced with their body, mind, spirit and energy practices. They live a more peaceful, stable life and have lower visible signs of oxidative stress.

Melanie Avalon:
I love that I just know intuitively for me with everything that I've done I intuitively like I love like winter is my time when I feel least inflamed and I really think it's a lot that's just from the cold exposure and probably the lack of any sort of pollen but I'm always like everything I do in the winter it just feels I feel intuitively that reduced oxidative stress load and I feel it manifest in anything I get done you know cosmetically so that really resonated with me and that's just the physical cold that doesn't speak to everything that you just touched on which is you know everything beyond that so things like that you talk about specifically EMFs for example in the paper have you found things with EMF exposure in our skin? Oh I sure have.

Rachel Varga:
I sure have. Before getting into EMF, I'd love to add to, that's great with your physical composition that you know with yourself that you do well with cold. I used to be that way. I used to do a ton of cold plunging and primarily did that because my partner being a pro athlete and all these things, that is a big part of recovery. So I was doing it and was primarily doing it for pain after the car crashes. But then I had a shift and I visited Florida for the first time I spoke at a peptides and stem cell conference and I just felt so good in the heat. My body just relaxed. There's also this masculine and feminine dynamic as well that really plays into our balance and to be more beautiful, it's all balance. From a traditional Chinese medicine perspective, you actually want to be balancing the cold and the heat. For me, my nervous system tends to feel more relaxed now in the heat. It makes me feel a little bit safer. I'm also from Canada, so it does get pretty darn cold here. I really love the heat now. It's about balancing the heat and the cold and it's okay to observe that you may have previously felt certain ways in different seasons, in different temperatures. Then as we grow and as we mature and as we evolve, we may notice that those things actually shift a bit. So with the cold plunging, I was doing a lot of cold plunging. I wasn't doing as much sonneting and balancing the heat. For women, it's so important to have that balance. So I'll do a cold shower in the AM and then something like a hot detox bath and a sauna in the PM, but it's always going to be about balancing. What you said was actually really profound is you notice that the wintertime is when you feel least inflamed. So you likely feel better. You're likely sleeping better. Your hormones are likely more on point. Your blood sugars are more stabilized. So it's really going to be an individual thing with where you feel better, season -wise and temperature -wise, and just having the grace with yourself that that might shift and that's okay. But I'm all about becoming as pure as possible. Body, mind, spirit, energy, oxidative stress status, all that stuff, emotions, relationships to be in our least inflamed state. And then if we do experience stressors, we can become so metabolically flexible that our body can manage what it's been exposed to. So getting into EMFs now, this is a really important topic. And I started to study EMFs a long time ago and have always been interested in magnets and technologies to support our bodies. And I just noticed that I'd say in about 2014, 2016, I just felt better when I would spend basically a whole day in nature. Grounding, being in nature, I'm from a beautiful island called Vancouver Island. And it's really easy to, I mean, I'm looking outside my window right now at the lake and the trees moving and the wind and the beautiful rocks and the grass and the moss. So for me, nature is really good. So why did I feel so much better when I would have a full day without exposure to toxins in the air, LED lighting, EMFs, all of those different things? Why did I feel so much better? Why did my skin look so much clearer and feel more hydrated for that entire week with taking a full day off grid? And then I started to do some research on electromagnetic frequencies, also known as wireless cellular radiation. And in 2017, I went on a three -letter website. It starts at the W, it ends with an O. And I found a page that said, at that time, this is about 2017, that about 15% of the global population was considered hypersensitive to electromagnetic frequencies. Electromagnetically hypersensitive is the correct term. And then I started to talk about that stuff online and got a shadow band on social media, that was a lot of fun. And then when I wrote my research article, I went back to that website to try and find that page and I couldn't find that anymore. The thing about EMFs and the body is there's literature that's available on PubMed. Look up EMFs in the skin, look up EMFs in the eyes. And you'll find papers that talk about how EMFs can contribute to skin redness and irritation, as well as eye redness and irritation. Now, why is that? And the other thing that really prompted me to write this oxidative stress status paper is I sit on a couple of really cool scientific roundtables with international experts from various regards, I have for years. And I was doing some research and I always look at basically nationwide data. For death rates of different causes and even deaths of unknown cause. And what was interesting actually, when I was doing research on Canada, and this is actually probably similar for other countries too, that deaths of unknown cause doubled in Canada from 2019 to 2020, where it had remained stable from the data set from 2016 to 2019. Now, I started to think to myself, why is that? What happened in the year from 2019 to 2020? Well, we had a rollout of a new frequency of EMFs to use our cell phones with, right? 3G, 4G, 5G, and who knows what's next. So I thought that was interesting. So I actually sought clarification on what that death of unknown cause meant from the publisher of the data set. And they said it was under the category of auto -immune conditions. It was also under the category of someone passing away before they actually received a diagnosis. But a doubling as a researcher, again, researchers look for signals in data sets. That was a signal. So in my opinion, after reviewing the literature and all of that, I think that EMFs is a key player in that. And what EMFs actually do to the body, which I know you love to nerd out and study these things. Is that five minutes on your phone starts to change your blood. It actually makes your red blood cells go through a process called red blood cell morphology, where the red blood cell changes. It changes from a smooth donut or a smooth inner tube to then having jagged edges. Five minutes on your phone, holding your phone. And then what also happens is the red blood cells start to stick together. And they form these chains, like a coin, like a roll of coins called RULO. And then you get clotting factors and then you don't get good blood flow to your organs, to your brain, to your skin. And poor blood flow results in inflammation. So dry skin, red skin. And then also impairs the body's detoxification of carrying away waste products, like CO2 and different metabolic waste products to your liver and kidneys to then be excreted. So EMFs do a lot to impact the skin, the eyes, the body in general, primarily through the blood. But also from our mitochondria standpoint, where we have outside in nature, these very smooth, coherent sine waves. You've probably seen an image of what a sine wave looks like. You have basically one sine wave. When we're inside a lot with electrical wiring and those cordless phones throughout the home that are just as bad as your router, you get multiple waves that sort of aren't coherent and they go through the body. And I have a piece of technology called the BioWell as a practitioner that when I turned on some of my biohacking tech, it actually improved dual output in the body, which tells me that enhancing our energy coherence in the home and workplace can actually lead to better dual output, which then I basically looked at as improving mitochondrial function. So in a nutshell, that's what EMFs does. And to mitigate it, ground outside, 30 to 45 minutes, barefoot on the ground, release those positive ions that the body accumulates, get more negative ions from the earth, and wear EMF protective clothing and sleep and EMF protective clothing as something to help with that.

Melanie Avalon:
I love it. So, so helpful. And it's something where I'm really, really curious to see the future of all of this and will it become conventionally accepted, more so the dangers of EMFs. Something that I find really, because I think people often think it's conspiratorial, but if you go into your iPhone, if you have an iPhone, and you go into the legal section of the phone, there's actually a section called RF exposure or something. It's something about the RF. It's about the EMFs. And it basically recommends in your iPhone to not use your iPhone like a normal phone. Like it says to use it on speakerphone or hands -free, which I feel like if Apple is taking the time to put that in there in nicer words, like it doesn't make it seem like they're saying it's a big problem, but it's in there. If they have to put that in there, I think that's pretty telling.

Rachel Varga:
I interviewed you on my podcast, you showed me that. Yeah, it's so crazy. Thank you. Because it's such a great thing to share with everyone tuning in here that, you know, this is disclosed to us. And it's about using technology safely. So not using Bluetooth, I don't use Bluetooth at all. Not using those AirPods, Apple AirPods, and, you know, turning off technology when you're not using them, turning your router off at night. But we do need to use technology in order to actually engage in living and working and communication. So it just comes down to actually shielding your body physically. I think with daily grounding and wearing EMF protective clothing is really helpful. And I also do have an opinion about vehicles that hybrid and battery powered vehicles emit a ton of EMFs. So I actually drive an older vehicle that's really low in EMFs. So there's that component as well. And it's not about being conspiratorial. It is actually just about looking at the data. And so that signal from the data from 2019 to 2020 is pretty telling that something shifted. And now I see a lot of people online talking about EMFs and they're not shadowbanned like I did.

Melanie Avalon:
That's a good forward step in that direction. Well, actually, so sort of a related question, bringing it back specifically to the cosmetic procedures and the skincare, because we're talking about this potentially toxic role of EMF exposure, for example. So what is the cost benefit on something like Botox, for example? You talked about Botox in your recent paper, the one about the slimming of the jawline. And I got so many questions about Botox, and I have questions about Botox, but that's an example of literally putting a toxin directly into your body for an intended effect. And when I say Botox, I realize that's the brand name, but yes. So what are your thoughts on using Botox, a neurotoxin in our skin, or in our muscles to affect our skin?

Rachel Varga:
I love getting this question.

Melanie Avalon:
I know you probably get it all the time.

Rachel Varga:
You know what, I love it and actually what I started to notice around 2017 was that more people coming to consult with me online, internationally, and also in the clinic were desiring to take a more skin health focus. And this actually warmed my heart because the healthier you are, and just full transparency, I used to be about 60% in clinic, so injectables and lasers. If I got a breakout, I would essentially have redness persist forever because my body wasn't managing the inflammation properly, and I'd have to laser those red spots each month. And then injectables, you know, every three, four months or so. And so that was 60% in clinic, 40% home care. And then with reducing oxidative stress after the car crashes, just really limiting toxins on my body, and different exposures to things that can elicit the cell danger response, which happens when we have an increase of oxidative stressors filling up that toxic bucket. I then went to about 90% home care, 10% in clinic. So, personally, and I get access to anything and everything, as you can imagine. So for me to observe that in myself, that my skin is healthier than ever with having to do far fewer things, it's just kind of a testament. If I can do it, you can do it too. So the big question that's around neurotoxins, neuromodulators, Botox is a brand name, there's other brand names too. In my paper, I actually highlight the fact that there is a cleaner version. There are, there is one specific one, yes. And what's important to note is that not all products are created the same. They all have similar nuances so that they can be patented. So what's interesting about neurotoxins is the neurotoxin itself is like a jelly bean. It weighs about 175 kilo dolons. And imagine that neurotoxin that can be just that pure neurotoxin, which is what one of those brands are. And then the other ones where it's the jelly bean in a tennis ball. And that molecule can then weigh about 750 to over 900 kilo dolons. And what the tennis ball represents with the jelly bean inside are complexing proteins that the function of them is not known fully, what that does. So if you are wanting to do rejuvenation, there are options. And what I've learned is that where exosomes, stem cells are now, especially when I was at that conference in Florida not too long ago, sitting in a room of, you know, 30 of North America's top stem cell and exosome experts is where that is now is kind of where I think Botox was in the 90s. So with anything new, it really does take time to hone the product itself. And then it also takes time to hone the application of the product and the algorithm to offer it. And then oftentimes, and we see this with even body contouring technologies, laser contouring technologies, the technologies get basically a second or third generation of it to get better and better and better. So in my experience with products, I've always had the seven to eight year rule that I want to see the outcomes of something that's been on the market, not just approved, but on the market for the masses for about seven to eight years before I'll go near it. That's really important. So when it comes to neuromodulators, they do serve a purpose at softening fine lines and wrinkles. They're on label use for lines between the brows, forehead and around the eyes. And that can provide a non -surgical benefit. There's also surgical benefits of different things too, like upper eyelid surgery, for example. So in my paper, what I mentioned is that if someone's oxidative stress status is elevated, that isn't going to be the best time to do something like an injectable, like a neurotoxin or dermal filler or laser surgery to really focus on health. And I have noticed a big shift with the modern medical aesthetic client desiring a more cleaner approach and taking an approach that's focused more on skin health. Now, in my opinion and my experience, seeing people that they don't really care about their skin, they have bad relationships, they don't really do much in regards to their body, mind, spirit, energy balancing, they show up to a clinician for things like Botox and fillers, they don't end up looking nearly as good as someone who's consistent with their skincare at home, someone who's eating really well for what their body needs and their epigenetics, you know all about that. With testing instead of guessing, they don't do anywhere as well as someone who is doing the consistent healthy lifestyle approach. They have lots of clients that don't wanna do neurotoxins. So what we do in that case is skincare, at home peels, retinols, dermal rolling, lasers, and then maybe even sometimes surgery as an option. So deciding to do rejuvenation is a very personal choice and if someone feels that something isn't good for them or they just don't wanna do it, then that's I think something really important to listen to and also always prioritizing your health and wellness.

Melanie Avalon:
I think that is so amazing. So to clarify, so when you were saying the cleaner options, it is the versions where it's basically just the neurotoxin without that extra golf ball layer.

Rachel Varga:
Thank you.

Melanie Avalon:
Thank you.

Rachel Varga:
Correct. But these are straight up neurotoxins, and there is the black label warning that they can go throughout the body. We've seen this happen more when, say, people are having larger areas, like, say, for example, someone with cerebral palsy, huge amounts are used in, say, the quadricep thigh muscles. Because high volumes are used in really big muscle areas. In my opinion, that's going to have a greater likelihood for going systemically throughout the body. But there's always a likelihood for it going systemically. So that's why that isn't the only option. There's other options as well. So it comes down to what's important for the individual who's seeking these options.

Melanie Avalon:
I hadn't shared my personal experience with all of this on the show until I had Anthony Yoon or Yoon on the show.

Rachel Varga:
I love him, Dr. Tony, and he's known as America's Holistic Plastics.

Melanie Avalon:
Yes. He was so incredible, like so nice. I just loved him. Yeah, he was amazing. So I talked about it then, which was basically that I felt really silly. I always thought Botox was directly affecting the skin and I thought it was getting rid of wrinkles you already had. I didn't realize it was affecting the muscle and just making the muscle paralyzed so then you don't form the wrinkles in the first place. So I went in because I was interested to possibly get it for my TMDD and my masseters for my jaw for like clenching. She gave me all this education. I remember I walked in, I was like, I'm just going to get it in my jaw. I'm not going to get it anywhere else on my face, which will bring me to a second question I have about all this. But I walked out of that being like, oh, I should have already done this yesterday. But I know opinions are mixed about it, but what's really interesting and the reason I'm telling this whole story is I just do a light amount in my forehead. I'm not very savvy with the different names of the muscles, but between the eyebrows, I use ZMN for that purpose of trying to get the minimal problematic ingredients, even though like we said, it is an art toxin. But every time I go in, my practitioner, she's like, do you want to try Botox this time? She basically thinks that Botox works better than ZMN and that ZMN is more finicky. But I'm like, I just want the... Even though, again, it's a toxin. I understand that. But I'm like, I just want to get the minimal potentially problematic ingredient. But all of that said, the question I have from that is I find it really interesting the amount of judgment surrounding different cosmetic procedures and why certain things are judged more versus others. And I don't know, because I was really thinking about it when I was debating about the Botox. The reason I didn't want to do it was I felt like there's so much judgment surrounding it. People might say that you're not... Like if it may be the antithesis to biohacking, if I'm doing that, then how do I know the biohacking stuff is working? Or I'm just talking in circles here. What are your thoughts on the judgment surrounding cosmetic procedures versus the more quote natural holistic approaches and all of that vibe that happens?

Rachel Varga:
Mm -hmm. The judgment and the stigma are very well known in the medical aesthetics industry, and this oftentimes stems from when we see celebrities who are really overdone and people are really fearful of looking like that, looking overdone, and having complications. But the other aspect of judgment is vanity, and I have heard this so much throughout my years of offering rejuvenation, both non -surgical and skincare and lasers and all that stuff. The interesting thing about the... So we know that the judgment and the stigma, you know, it's people are scared of looking overdone, but then the other thing is that people don't want to come across as being vain. When it comes to the way that we look, if something is bothering you and there are solutions, then possibly doing something that's going to create a benefit so you're not self -conscious about something is an option. The other thing that I look at with the vanity side of things, because people will often say, oh, I feel like this is vain, all the stuff. What's important to know here is that caring for the largest organ of your body, which is the skin, is caring for the largest organ of your body. That's why I love to encourage more of a skin health approach from the inside out. Reducing oxidative stress, using practitioner grade skincare that I've pre -vetted. I sell about 250 products on my skin shop, and I pre -vet them all. And I'm constantly updating or removing or adding products based on if there's been ingredient shifts, because obviously we want to avoid products in skincare that contain parabens, phthalates, sulfates, artificial dyes fragrances, testing on animals, things like that too. So the vanity thing is a very real concern that people have emotionally and psychologically is, oh, spending money on skincare and rejuvenation is making me vain. Well, if it's enhancing your confidence and dealing with something that really bothers you day in and day out and has for a while, sometimes when that is adjusted and something's done about that, the confidence is enhanced. And then through confidence comes the confidence to then build your community. Get out there and really have your best face and best version forward. To cultivate our community is actually something that we as humans need. If we have, say, an example of a tribe somewhere in Africa or a long time ago, and someone got excommunicated because they did something morally wrong and against the values of the tribe, they get excommunicated and sent away and their ability to survive and thrive is then diminished because it's difficult for one person to have all of the skills necessary for housing, for hunting, for gathering, for all of those different things, reproduction, right? It takes two to tango. So the vain thing has been a really interesting thing for me to study and observe, and then also where confidence plays to build our community. So that's something that I really wanted to touch on. And then also talk about some of the nuances with some of the products out there. And the nuances with products extend not just to neurotoxins, but also to dermal fillers, to also to biostimulators, to also to laser rejuvenation options, also to surgical options. One of the interesting things that you brought up was the difference between some of the different brands that are on the market. And what I like to use is the analogy of a soft hold hairspray, which is what's noted and observed with one of the cleaner versions on the market. It feels more like a soft hold hairspray. So you still have some expression, you're not totally frozen looking, and it doesn't feel as stiff compared to other products that look and feel quite a bit more stiff. Now, for me, I think someone looks more beautiful when they actually have the ability to express their faces. If someone can't express their face because they've had a lot done everywhere, and they have this what's called flat affect, they can't actually express express emotions, which also inhibits communication. and showing empathy when it's really important in communication. And also not being able to express our faces, I think really inhibits our beauty. So if you don't want to do neurotoxins, what you can actually do is practice the usage of micro expressions, which is what I do. I love to study communication. As a speaker, teacher, presenter myself, I love the usage of higher forms of communication and word choice, and also micro expressions. When I was a pediatric ICU nurse, I worked with a lot of kids that were trach invented. I did a lot of sign language to communicate with the children. And I noticed that my peers were really expressive with their faces, and I couldn't help but observe that an overexpressiveness of talking loud, talking fast, doing really, really intense facial expressions is not conducive to slowing aging. But having a more calm, cool, collected demeanor, having a more balanced nervous system from an emotional standpoint as well, not being too extreme, but more grounded, balanced, centered, and aligned. The use of micro expressions is really powerful. And I teach a lot of these different types of elements in my membership where I go really deep into these things. I'm not just using skincare and applying them properly, but also how we present in the world. And when we present in this way, this is exactly what you experienced when you and I first met, is when you are operating at this different frequency, this different way, you're more radiant, you're more balanced, body, mind, spirit, energy, your oxidative stress status is lowered, you're detoxing regularly. You're going to be able to have better engagements. So it's no mistake that I was the first person that you spoke to because the radiance piece here is very powerful when you learn how to employ it in attracting like a magnet, the right people, places, things, and opportunities. So for you coming up to me and me being the first person you engaged with, that's actually likely why. I know that might sound a little bit woo, but the whole radiance piece is something that's really powerful. And actually what I've observed is we'll be more conducive to slowing aging. The other thing that's important to note is that, yes, neuromodulators and neurotoxins can indirectly impact the skin because if the muscles under the skin are relaxed and not moving as much, that skin wrinkle will have an opportunity to pop out. Similarly to if you fold a piece of paper and then you flatten out that piece of paper, that wrinkle, if the movement is relaxed, that wrinkle will have a chance to come out. But the trick here is that it's not just about using a product and having a rejuvenation procedure, it's also about how it's applied and how much is applied. So that's why medical aesthetics is very much half art, half science, listening to what the needs of the patient is, what can be addressed, and doing it in a way that supports what's called the ideal facial ratios and still allowing for expression to be softened but not completely eliminated. That's why if any of you listening have gone to someone for a rejuvenation in the past and you liked it so much more with this person compared to this other person that either wasn't enough or it was too much, there's so much that goes into providing rejuvenation in a way that looks natural and is in alignment with your values.

Melanie Avalon:
going back to the vanity piece that you're talking about, and I love how you brought in the need for us to have social protection and tribes and all of that stuff. I'm so fascinated by all of that so much. So something that's really interesting about it, for example, is with the vanity piece, the way I see it, like stepping back, everything that we do, we're doing to presumably feel some sort of, quote, happy chemical neurotransmitter, be it dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, oxytocin. And I find it really interesting, like with the example of putting Botox in my jaw versus my forehead, both of those, technically, if you go to the root of it, I'm doing it because it's going to make me feel better in my body for whatever reason. So in the jaw, it's because it's gonna help with my clenching and it's gonna help with my sleep and the tension that I have there versus putting it in my forehead where it's gonna help relax the muscles and not form those wrinkles. Like the root cause of both of those are for me to just feel better in my body for whatever reason. And I just find it so interesting that people would see one as vain and not the other, even though in the end, it's all about the happy chemicals that, you know? And then the second comment to that was, I love your focus on skin health first and the holistic effects of that and how you said that it would radiate into a person's overall confidence, you know, and how they show up in society. And that's why I think, I mean, maybe this is a little bit bold to say, but for me, it's the foundation first of doing all these biohacking things, the health, the diet, the fasting, the, you know, the red light, the not using toxic ingredients, using safe skincare, seeing all of that, and then kind of hacking, biohacking. I don't know, I'm not saying that Botox is biohacking, but it's a way for me to address that issue of the muscle literally, you know, activating and causing those wrinkles to form. So now, because I realized for me, like if I'm, because I do a lot of work for the show and a lot of stuff, and now I've noticed I will like furrow my brow without even realizing it for hours, you know, because I'm like concentrating. And so if I, and maybe I could like, I'm really fascinated by your micro expression thing. Maybe I could like do some sort of neurofeedback or mindfulness technique and make myself not really furrow my brow while concentrating, but it's pretty easy to just put some Botox in there and then I won't have that issue. And so in a way, I don't know, it's kind of like biohacking to me. That was just a lot of thoughts in response to everything that you said, but I love, that's really interesting about the micro expression. One question about that, do you find, or me just hearing that now, the idea of limiting my expressions feels like it would be limiting to my energy. So how do you do that without limiting your natural expression and who you are as a person wanting to come out and express themselves in an expression?

Rachel Varga:
question. Interestingly enough, the more clear and concise you are with your communication and word choice and with your expression of your face and your gestures is powerful. We all know those people who speak a million miles a minute, they're very expressive with their hands and their faces and oftentimes our nervous system is imbalanced. That can be due to emotional, energetic things, physical things, spiritual things, and I've actually learned all of these things so that I can be a better presenter and teacher as I mentioned earlier. And this takes practice. However, what I've noticed with slowing down the words that I use per minute and being very clear and concise with the words that I do choose to use and expressions, it actually comes across as being more confident and being more stable and trustworthy. With communication, obviously this is a huge part of looking and feeling our best, but communication is all about establishing bonding and trust. I don't know about you, but I'm more likely to form a relationship or a business connection with someone who carries themselves as being very well put together. And when emotions are expressed, they're very meaningful. There's so much power to micro gestures and it's also even very feminine. You might not have thought about that as well and there's so many women out there who, I see this a lot, a lot of my clients struggling who are working like a man, they're in a male -dominated field, and then they end up acting and behaving like the men that they're around, but what they don't realize is that there's actually more power to them being in their feminine instead of trying to match the male qualities. So I think that there's a lot of things that are impacting the way that we behave as a society and also how that ends up impacting the way that we age. So if a woman is working like a man, she's grinding it at her job, she's coming home and she's looking after the home in its entirety, feeding the kids, getting the kids to bed, you know, keeping a really healthy relationship going, that's a lot for a woman to handle. And what I find is that over time that can lead to relationship issues, that can lead to sleep disturbances, hormonal issues, and women that have operated in that way can also, unfortunately, also experience health issues beyond that. And I actually learned this from my dear mother, who's a night nurse and was the primary breadwinner for the family and sent my sister and myself to a really great school, and she sacrificed a lot for us. And so I learned from a young age how to actually not burn out and have really good boundaries around protecting my energy. So it is a relatively easy fix to become conscious of your expressions, which you mentioned before. So for those of you listening, I'd like you to just take a moment. What are you doing with your face and your body while you are listening or doing a task? When you're focusing, are you furrowing your brows? Just relax that. And it's not about raising your eyebrows up and then getting those horizontal lines. It's about relaxing your face. This will then translate to relaxing your emotional state and your nervous system. Sometimes when people are stressed out, they will be more prone to clenching their jaw, which can lead to a hypertrophy or an overdevelopment of the muscles in the jaw line. And also chewing gum can lead to a hypertrophy and an overdevelopment of the muscle called the depressor angularis auris that makes up the jawl. As women age, the lower third of the face becomes wider from these muscle groups being activated. For men, it's the opposite. So then the question is, how do we hack that? For men, chomping on those mouth exercise things, I think are fantastic for getting that really great straw, masculine, jawline look. However, for women, it's actually, the aging process between men and women are different. So actually keeping the lower face more relaxed, not chewing gum, not clenching the jaw. And one of the things that I actually teach in my tutorials is facial lymphatic drainage and muscle and fascia release of the face, the neck, and even the scalp and the top of the chest area. Because if you have a buildup of stagnant energy and lymph and fluid in say your masseters, for example, it can actually lead to puffiness more in your mid face. And puffiness around the eyes, it can be contributed to, obviously inflammation, but also blocked lymph, like what I spoke about with dermal fillers in the tear trough. So the facial lymphatic drainage and regular muscle massage of the face, every time you're applying your products in the AM and the PM with your skincare is a great way to have an awareness, have more of an awareness of your body. And this is what I think a lot of people are missing because we're very distracted with the tasks of the day and things at hand. And when we take moments to get to know our body, and I'm all about becoming as pure as possible, body mind, spirit, energy, reducing oxidative stress with air, water, lighting, electromagnetics, and detoxing parasites, yeast, fungi, heavy metals, mold, the more pure you are, the more regulated you're going to be. And the easier it becomes for you to identify when you may be doing things in your daily living and lifestyle that are actually contributing to accelerating aging. So with expressions, notice your emotional states as well. And one of the really good things about biohacking and cold plunging that I learned to develop was learning how to regulate my state within seconds. I can be put in an incredibly stressful situation. I'm also an entrepreneur, so for all of you entrepreneurs out there, there's small fires that need to be put out multiple times a day. And also if you have family and things like that, whatever your work life is, we all experience stress. Stress is a sign of being alive. But noticing what you're doing with your emotional states, if you are in an elevated negative emotional state, why is that? What's the trigger? Is it physical? Is it non -physical? And then learning to regulate yourself, getting back into a state of gratitude and being in more positive emotional states will make you appear more pleasant and be more pleasant to be around. What's really interesting though, is that the most beautiful men and women that I've engaged with in my life have been 60 and up. They have some visible signs of aging and wrinkles and pigmentation, but they come across as being more beautiful and a pleasure to be around compared to what I noticed around my age, women in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Now why is that? I think it's lived experience. I think it's learning what their needs, values, and boundaries are, which take time to learn. And kind of letting the stressful situation sort of roll off their shoulders a little bit easier. So if you're listening to this and you're 50, 60 and up, it can be really helpful for you to learn that it's never too late to do something about the way that you look in your skin health. But also know that because of this beautiful learned experience and wisdom that you have, you're a more solid human. You've been around the block. You've overcome life challenges and obstacles and have very likely created your toolkit to do this. So I really feel actually for women in their 30s and 40s who are working very hard at whatever their vocation is, they might not really know what their mission is yet. They might not know their value. They might not have a clear sense of what their values are and also good boundaries to support all of that too. So some deeper concepts here. that get brought up when we consider what our facial muscles are doing without us knowing about it. And then what we can learn about ourselves when we actually take time to observe what our body and expressions are doing throughout the day and based on different situations.

Melanie Avalon:
So you've touched on, because I said I did have listener questions, and so you've touched on quite a few of them, so I'll give the listener shout outs. So I think you talked a lot about jowls because Karen wanted to know about jowls. Then we talked for Kena, she wanted to know about how safe is Botox and lip flips, which for listeners that's putting Botox above your lip, and she said, and all the other recently popular procedures. Do you have any thoughts on lip flips?

Rachel Varga:
Well, one of my favorite things to do is smile enhancement and say, for example, you're looking through a magazine or on social media. Typically, an aesthetically pleasing smile is going to be that upper row of teeth, not the upper and lower row of teeth. So if the muscle that's in the jowl that I mentioned on, which Karen asked about the jowls, when that muscle is really strong, it's actually going to pull down the lower lip, and you'll see more of that lower row of teeth show. When the muscles in the jowls in the chin, the mentalis muscle, are adjusted, that lower lip comes up a little bit higher. And for neuromodulators, on the upper lip, we can actually drop that lip down a little bit. So say, for example, you see a lot of gums when you smile or your upper lip just turns into like a line and it totally disappears, you can relax that muscle. Now, facial massage and lymphatic drainage also serve a purpose for that, for keeping muscles relaxed and also for not overly expressing yourself, right? Like doing a huge smile, all your lower face and your neck muscles engaged too, it's just going to look more relaxed and you're going to look more relaxed and you're actually going to end up looking more feminine too. So those are really great questions, but at the end of the day, a neuromodulator is a neurotoxin. So at the end of the day, it's a decision that's made between the patient and the practitioner because, of course, this is not medical advice, this is educational information only. If you think you have a medical condition, you must seek the guidance of a licensed physician. At the end of the day, how safe are these procedures? Well, it's also going to be relevant to your own oxidative stress status and how you're feeling on that day of your treatment at that time, both physically and emotionally and nervous system and all these things. So if I've ever, if I've encountered someone where I can tell they're visibly stressed out, that's actually when I would recommend delaying something and reconsidering it at another time when they're feeling better.

Melanie Avalon:
We've spoken a lot about being as clean as possible with all of this and minimizing the potential negative effects of oxidative stress and all of those things. So when it comes to choosing products, Daisy wanted to know what are the must have ingredients and the must avoid ingredients. Is there a, I'm sure there's a ton, but is there a shortlist for that?

Rachel Varga:
Yeah, my answer to Daisy is, and for lots of you listening, it's actually not just looking at the ingredients list. Let that sink in for a second. I've worked with lots of clients over the years that have used super clean, hippy -dippy granola. I mean, Dave Asprey called me crunchy now. You called you what? He called me crunchy. He says I'm like crunchy granola now. It's really cute. Oh, that's funny. I know. It's hilarious. So getting back to what Daisy said, this is actually really important for everyone to learn about. If you're looking at buying a skincare product and the ingredient list looks great, it's got hyaluronic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E, maybe there's some retinol in there. Maybe there's some peptides. By the way, I've been working with peptides in practitioner grade skincare since I started it in the industry in 2011. Peptides in skincare is not new. So when it comes to ingredients, not only do you want the ingredients to be good and to be free of parabens, phthalates, sulfates, artificial dyes, fragrances, but you also want them to be stable and you also want them to work and also for the feeling of the product to be formulated in such a way so that you don't have to use too much of it. So I see this a lot with products on the market that are super clean and have all these hero ingredients, but the final formulation of it with how those ingredients are put together really, really matters. So I see a lot of expensive products out there, also a lot of cheap products that have pretty good ingredients list, but when I use them, I can just tell pretty quickly that it's not a product that was formulated very well. And so I'm evaluating products and I saw about 250 skincare, haircare, hair, skin, nails, supplements, dermal rolling supplies and all of that. I'm not only looking at the ingredients list to make sure that they have things that I like, but I'm also looking at performance and also price point. So it's not just, okay, I want to look for a product with these ingredients and I want to avoid these ingredients, but it's also how the product feels, the price point and how much you have to use and of course the results. So that's what I base my selection on, which is far beyond just ingredients that it has and just ingredients that it doesn't because there are inexpensive products that have great ingredients that don't have bad ingredients, but they don't meet the needs of mature skin. The other thing here is that for antioxidants to actually work and not become a free radical, they have to be kept stable. So in really well formulated practitioner grade products, you're going to have very small amounts of some type of preservative so that number one, bacteria doesn't grow, but then also number two, so that something like vitamin C remains an antioxidant and doesn't actually become a free radical on the skin. So I have on top of my nursing degree a background in general chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry. I'm formulating my own products behind the scenes too and I'm in the third round of research and development because if I put my name on something, you know, it's got to be rock solid and up to my standards and a lot of people online who are talking about different skincare products, but they're not actually skin experts themselves. It's challenging because then there's information that actually might not be the highest form of information. So when you're seeking guidance on gut health and hormones, I think it's really helpful to seek out the guidance in those specific areas from teachers who that's their focus on. And my focus is of course on skin and rejuvenation. That's my main focus. And then I have also done research and have been sitting in both the medical aesthetics network for a long time and then also the integrative and functional network for a long time. So I'm pretty unique that I have the substantiation from both sides, which is why I wrote that oxidative stress status paper, to marry the two areas and fields together. Because at the end of the day, we can all learn from one another. But for you listening, it's important that you're being very discerning with where you're getting your information. Because the other thing here that wasn't asked but is very relevant is there can be a really good product that I've recommended that has antioxidants and it might have retinol and some other things. And on the skincare database platforms like EWG, like the YUKA app, those platforms will give any product with retinol, hydroquinone, glycolic acid, salicylic acid, and a few other ingredients a really low rating, which is misleading, because those products are not recommended for people who are pregnant and breastfeeding because it's unethical to test those ingredients on someone who is pregnant or breastfeeding. So that's why, and I actually had this question just the other day, for a retinol moisturizer that is actually one of the cleanest retinols out there, it's a practitioner grade lines from the UK, it's fantastic. And it does contain 0 .25% retinol and also other antioxidants of peptides. And for those antioxidants peptides and retinol to be stable, they do have to have a very small amount of a preservative so that bacteria doesn't grow and so that it actually does work. So that's where the performance comes in. But it's important to know that the preservative does have to be really low on the ingredients list, meaning that there's not a lot of it, but there's enough of it to maintain the benefit for that product to actually work.

Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. I should have known that there would be a really nuanced answer to that. I love that so much and I love that's really exciting to hear about you formulating your products and you know similar to me it's like I love when we can get products from people where it's coming from this passion and this you know understanding for why the need is there and presumably I'm guessing you're making what you what you want to be using yourself really really exciting. I'm glad you touched on the retinol because it's funny I was gonna read a question about that and I was going to just refer listeners because we actually did a deep dive Rachel did a deep dive into retinol on the first time I had her on the show so I'll put a link to that episode in the show notes but Carolina spelled with a K she actually said that she would like to know more about retinol and she wanted to know if it was a must after a certain age and if yes how and when to use it and if no why not to use it so again Carolina I will refer you to the the first episode that we had Rachel on for her question about is it a must after a certain age do you have thoughts on that idea?

Rachel Varga:
I would say nothing is a must. Yeah, you can't really make blanket statements. Do I use retinol a lot? I actually don't. I pretty much use my retinol when I do my dermal rolling afterwards. Now, with product selection and usage, and especially with dermal rolling, which has been around since also the 90s, this is also something that I'm surprised hasn't been asked yet. But I'll dive into this because there is a lot of people online that talk about retinol being good, talk about retinol being bad, talk about microneedling being good, microneedling being bad, that it should only be done in the clinic, that it shouldn't be done at home. What's really important is to actually look at the research and the long -term outcomes. And my clients that do have the best skin actually have thicker skin, more collagen and elastin and less pigmentation, are very consistent with the products that I recommend for them to use at home and also doing their at -home microneedling two to five times a week. The trick is, though, to have the guidance and recommendations based on what your specific needs are and then have the guidance on how to exactly use everything and techniques and cleaning instructions and all of that, which I do a huge deep dive on in my tutorials. And I actually learned about dermal rolling and retinol use from one of the original researchers of microneedling. He basically wrote the Bible that if on dermal rolling and microneedling, if you go online and look on YouTube, you're going to get a lot of mixed information. Sometimes that's related to practitioners wanting you to go into the clinic for microneedling and to not do it at home. However, similar principle with biohacking and longevity, consistency is king. And so being consistent with your skincare, doing your dermal rolling two to five times a week at home is excellent. And my clients that do that have thicker skin and more collagen than clients decades younger than them in their 20s and 30s. So this is also where it comes down to evaluating the research, product selection, and doing it in a way that feels right for you. So retinol can cause things like retinas and irritation and dryness. It's called the retinoid reaction phase. So it's not about putting the cart before the horse and investing in a dermal roller or retinol or even in clinic rejuvenation before stabilizing the skin first and learning how to read your skin. If it's feeling really good, then maybe do your rolling and retinol. If it's a little dry, red, irritated, fall back on your basic skincare routine. Say, for example, that I've laid out to you. So is retinol a must? It is helpful for speeding up cell turnover. Certain lasers can do that too and other skin actives can do that too. So there are nuances with something called skin cycling with your retinol, antioxidant serums, at -home peels, and dermal rolling. And weaving that into your typical AM and PM routine with your basic protocol to keep the skin barrier function optimized, hydrated, and exfoliated and well -cleansed. There's some nuances with that too. So I trust I've answered your question appropriately. For Carolina, is retinol a must use and when to use it or not? There's a lot of nuances and there's a lot of depends and also what you're doing.

Melanie Avalon:
Context and nuance is everything it seems to be the theme here. I've actually never done micro needling I need to you've inspired me again. I said I was gonna do it last time I interviewed you I need to start up this practice with the the rolling

Rachel Varga:
Oh, I'll get you set up. Yeah, well, I believe we did a one -on -one for you in the past. We'll do another one. I'll send you the link for that. And then I'll go through creating a solid routine for you based on what your needs are now and give you my recommendations. And then we can follow up and I'll give you that one -on -one guidance as you need it. And then I'll also give you access to my tutorials where you'll see me go through the basic two advanced layers of your skincare, makeup, obviously facial gua sha, lymphatic drainage, hair care, hair growth options, biohacking, pre -post recovery tips, skin cycling with retinol, antioxidants, peptides, peels at home. And then my full dermal rolling tutorial of the face, eyelids, lips, neck, chest, hands, also the arms we talk about, even the scalp too. So that's all in my tutorials and I will give you access to that, Melanie, don't you worry. So you'll have all the information you need and reach out when you have questions.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, commenting on that. So I had not done that before with you, but you were so kind after the first episode. I think you gifted it to my assistant, Diane. I did, yes. Yes. And so she absolutely loved that. And I also heard from listeners who did it as well after that episode. So I definitely encourage listeners to go that route. And is that something where can they just go on your website and sign up for that? Or how does it work?

Rachel Varga:
Absolutely. Everything is on the school of radiance .com where I recommend starting with a one -on -one so that you get that customized guidance with me. And I'll make specific recommendations of what to do at home and in the clinic. And as a one -on -one, you get that ongoing support. So Diane can reach out at any time with any questions. I'm here to support you. And the tutorial season of tutorials are all on the website as well. And I do recommend working with me first or at least joining my tutorials before purchasing products so that you have a little bit more insight. And for everybody tuning in, use code Melanie Avalon for 15% off all of that site -wide. And Melanie, we definitely have to do a consultation for you. You're so beautiful. Let's maintain your beauty and just make sure that from that cost and time analysis standpoint, you're really doing things that are going to make a big difference. And doing at -home microneedling is so beautiful because the next day after I do my dermal rolling, my skin always looks a little bit more plump. And new collagen forms at about three months, mature collagen six months. So depending on someone's budget lifestyle, you can really do a lot with home care, do the heavy lifting at home first. And then if things are still on your mind, you're wanting to address then the in -clinic things. I just think it's a better strategy to fully optimize what you're doing at home and being consistent to do that heavy lifting, to reduce dryness, redness, pigmentation, some fine lines and pore size, and then investing in the in -clinic side of things to take care of what's left over.

Melanie Avalon:
So I will say that again for listeners. So if you go to theschoolofradiance .com, then you can use the promo code MelanieAvalon for 15% off that one -on -one consultation. So again, cannot recommend it enough. It's funny, so Diane, who I mentioned, she's always helping me with my prep docs and my questions. And so I had sent her over my prep doc for her to edit. And then when she sent it back to me, she was like, I hope it's okay that I put in some of my questions. So literally all these questions from Diane are in my document that I didn't even realize. I'll tell her, again, like you were saying, about the follow -ups and that she can ask you questions, but I want to get one in from her at the very least. So she has a lot of really specific questions about a lot of procedures. She wanted to know about chin hairs. She wanted to know about microblading, powder brows, brow lamination, microcurrent devices, so many things. But one of her overarching questions she asked was, if you had to pick just one cosmetic treatment or procedure to do per year, what would be your number one pick?

Rachel Varga:
Oh, this is an easy one for me. Hey Diane, love you so much. And yeah, of course, by the way, that promo code is 15% off one -on -ones with me and also my seasonal tutorials. And I recommend all one -on -one clients take at least one of my tutorials where over seven weeks I basically give you all the application nuances. And I even have a whole lesson on lasers and things like hair removal and, you know, makeup, microblading recommendations, powder brows, all that stuff. That's, that's all part of it. That's all included in the tutorial stuff too. And the one thing that I am doing all the time is obviously a basic skincare routine, cleansing twice a day, moisturizing twice a day, sunscreen, mineral sunscreen only on the high real estate areas, ladies and gentlemen, face, eyelids, lips, neck, chest, hands, but I do love full body sun exposure everywhere else and then exfoliating two to five times a week is really key. So that's something that's like a non -negotiable for me in regards to being consistent and you will actually notice once you're on a really good protocol and get the right usage information on how to use your products. I've seen this just across the board with a new client working with me, meeting with me first time, skin redness, dryness, dullness, all that stuff. And then just doing those key things, cleanse, moisturize, sun protect and exfoliate in two weeks. And I would take their photos when I first saw them and then two weeks later when say I would do something else for them and they'd been on their routine for two weeks, the redness and sensitivity really started to fade. And the skin looked more glassy and evenly toned. So that can happen really quick. And the one thing I don't think that I would want to live without from a rejuvenation perspective is intense pulse light and intense pulse light. You can think of neurotoxins. As you mentioned, Melanie, there's all these different brands with fillers. There's also all these different brands with intense pulse light lasers. There's also all these different brands saying with resurfacing, there's all these different brands with, you know, eyelid surgery, facelifts, other types of surgeries, there's nuances also to those types of surgeries and different things that could be done. So with intense pulse light, I won't say the specific name of the laser. I can't really do that in make blanket statements because not everybody's a candidate for everything and not everybody is going to be a candidate for intense pulse light. So just to kind of protect myself too, but in a one on one, I'll give the recommendations and things like that. In general, intense pulse light uses light that's attracted to reds and browns in the skin. It's also attracted to dark hairs. So say, for example, Diane's question about chin hair is very common for us to experience this. And if we have dark hairs on our chin, it's a hormonal thing. It's, it's, it's, it happens. Ladies and gentlemen, it happens. The little whiskers, they're part of aging. It's okay. But some IPLs can target brown spots, age spots, or skin redness, red acne scars, red capillaries, and also darker hairs on the chin. And it's just such a lovely way at getting this sort of like magic eraser look to the skin, but also the light energy. There's been research that it actually on an epigenetic level can tell a 50 year old skin cell expression to actually behave more like a 30 year old's skin cell expression. Really cool. And yeah, so there's lots of different things that we can do. I think one of the other questions she had that I get this one all the time, Diane with microblading is also this term called dermaplaning, which is people often buy like a razor off Amazon and put this powder on their face and then use this little like scalpel, essentially a razor blade to shape their own face. Oh, wow. Yeah, this is something that's really common. So there's some issues around that, but there's also, you know, you can also just shave or do laser removal if those hairs are darker. And that's, you know, definitely gonna be a little bit more cost effective. And you don't have to use these disposable dermaplaning scalpel razors with this big plastic handpiece that you dispose each time. So there's so many things in the beauty and cosmetic industry that is a waste of your time and money and also waste for the planet. So I do like to take all those things into consideration and not recommend gadgets like a dermaplaning tool that's often found on Amazon when your razor is gonna be just as good.

Melanie Avalon:
So now my own questions about that with the IPL because I've done two different rounds of sessions like where I bought the package and got the sessions and did them once a month. How often should we be getting that done?

Rachel Varga:
Yeah, like I said before, it's really good to stabilize your skin first. Then there's also some supplements that I even have on my skin shop that everyone can find there too. It's the anti -aging dermal formula. I actually did a study with this company, and it's a French company that's for, oh, I think about 18 or 19 years been making this nutraceutical, and I was really impressed with after four weeks, fading of pigmentation redness, darkness around the eyes, puffiness around the eyes, and finalizer wrinkles were less deep. There are actually skin supplements out there that have been third -party independent lab tested that do create results. You probably just haven't really heard about them because there's more emphasis on research, development, and education than there is on marketing. Very interesting to note. What I would do with IPL stuff is skincare, maybe taking some certain skin supplements to reduce oxidative stress, get that skin, do that heavy lifting, right behind the scenes fading the redness and pigmentation, and do that for a couple months, then look at IPL. There are different times of year where IPL is better to do than others. The fall -winter is laser skin rejuvenation, so in my fall -winter seasonal skin tutorials, there's a little bit more of an emphasis on what to do at that time. Then yes, typically a couple of sessions a month apart is pretty standard, and then maintaining with your skincare, healthy living, biohacking, and then maybe doing a touch -up once a year is what I did recently on my face, neck, chest, arms, and hands. But you also want to make sure that you are of the right skin type for it, that you don't have any precancerous or cancerous lesions, so it's always wise to have those lesions looked at before lasering them. But I love IPL. I'm really excited, actually, to see where technologies go in the future with energy -based modalities for reducing pigmentation, promoting more collagen. But right now, with the biohacking side of things, I think we're really at a pinnacle that we never have been before, so the focus on purification, reducing oxidative stress from air, water, lighting, electromagnetics, and regular detoxing is huge, and I've also been able to reap the benefits of this, too, so that I need far fewer IPLs, right? Like I said before, I used to have to get them every month because I'd get a breakout and have this annoying redness that would last forever. But now that I'm healthier through all the biohacking stuff and doing the skin stuff with my background, that's, I think, really how people are going to get the best skin of their lives and also slow their visible signs of aging and also their internal signs of aging.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, that's really, really valuable information with the IPL. And I wanna make a clarification for listeners and I have a question about it. Before that, just a really specific to me, nuanced question. One time after getting the IPL done, I, it's still there, I can feel it right now. I got like a, it just feels like a little growth in my skin, like it just feels like excess skin cells. It's like a little bump. And again, it could be from something else not related, but it definitely for me appeared right after IPL. Can things happen from IPL side effects?

Rachel Varga:
Oh gosh, yeah, the highest rates of litigation in medical aesthetics and plastic surgery is with energy devices. So why this is so important to, number one, where are you going for your rejuvenation? Is it actually a legit IPL? Because I do teach other practitioners medical aesthetics rejuvenation and actually had someone reach out to me and they aren't a regulated practitioner, but they wanted to open up a bit of a spa. And she reached out and she said, oh, I just bought this laser, you know, I'm getting to know it on friends and family. And I was just like, oh my gosh, number one, who did you buy this laser from? Number two, I've never heard of it. And number three, who's teaching you about it? Who's training you? A lot of questions here. This does happen, especially in the US, but also in other parts of the world too, where people think they're buying a certain brand of laser, but it's actually fake and it's a counterpart. And the lasers that are really good are about the cost of a Ferrari. So a reputable medical aesthetics clinic is for the most part going to have better tech. But then it also comes down to what you've done behind the scenes to prepare the skin for it. What you're doing afterwards with your pre and post rejuvenation skincare and lifestyle. But then there's other things too. So we can get this kind of like a, an over development of skin cells. And we, we see this as sebaceous hyperplasia. It's kind of like a little spot that you think might be as it, and you go and try and pop it and not really anything comes out. That's just basically an accumulation of skin cells that are behaving inappropriately. So that's why caring for your skin, reducing oxidative stress, using different skin, actives and exfoliants can be really helpful at reducing things like these precancerous lesions and also other precancerous lesions too. Like actinic keratosis and also other skin cancers, right? So as we age, we get hairs growing on our chin. We get all these funky things growing on us. And it's just so important to observe and get to know your body. So if something does come up that you get it looked at and to, you know, potentially in an effort to reduce those things from popping up, which can happen, you're just really caring for your, the largest organ of your body really well. So for that, what you're experiencing, obviously you'd have to see it and learn a little bit more of, you know, is it red? Does it come and go? Is it just like this like little bump that doesn't have any pigmentation? There's lots of things that could be going on with that. But sometimes different skincare exfoliants and agents and acids can be helpful and also certain resurfacing lasers can be helpful for those things that can start to grow on the skin that are okay to deal with. And it's just more of like a textural issue.

Melanie Avalon:
This is so interesting. And I looked at pictures of sebaceous hyperplasia. I don't think that's what's on my face, but that I have one of those bumps on my neck and I've been wondering what it was. And I'm pretty sure this is what it is. Oh my goodness, I'm like really excited right now.

Rachel Varga:
Yeah, if you've had a couple, again, being diligent with your skincare using certain exfoliants can help reduce more from happening, but there's also solutions for it too. So a couple of different solutions that are available is going to be laser. And sometimes other things can be helpful as well. It just really depends.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, it was really interesting- Two comments. One is I had COVID over the winter and there was quite a few days where I was, you know, really high fever and not eating as much. So I think it created a bit of a, I wasn't fasting. I mean, I was doing my daily intermittent fasting, but the point is during that period of having COVID for probably a week or so of reduced appetite and everything, the spot on my face actually got significantly smaller. And I don't know if that was the like autophagy or, you know, my

Rachel Varga:
I'd say that's autophagy and I'll actually do, I'll listen to my body for when I want to fast. So I'm not super strict with intermittent fasting, I just listen to my body depending on where I am in my cycle, how my blood sugars are feeling, how I'm feeling in general. But then after the holidays, I was the official cookie taste tester, of course, and did a very good job at my role and definitely had, you know, 99% moderation, right? So 99% of the time I live really good and then 1% of the time I'll have the sweets. But I had more pain in my neck and things like that, skin stuff pop up. So I did about a four day fast where I had sort of like a smaller, later dinner. And so if you're actually not feeling great, this is something I'll do. Just like what you said, your appetite was a bit diminished. Your body probably went into a state of autophagy, clearing out some of those senescent cells, underlying inflammation. The more clear we are, we can listen to our body with what our body wants. And sometimes doing a bit of fasting can be very helpful. I practice that as well. I'm not very strict, a little bit more intuitively, which is a little bit of a feminine approach to it. And that's, that's pretty typical. One of the interesting things when we're talking about COVID, by the way, the statistic that I talked about with death of unknown cause doubling in Canada from 2019 to 2020, that was actually before the COVID stuff. And during that time, I was looking at options to support my immune health. And so I came across some incredible protocols, utilizing NAC, Q -cetrine, vitamin C, zinc, all sorts of different agents. And I was taking them. And then I started to notice that my skin was getting a lot better. I wasn't breaking out as much. The redness post -breakouts was going away faster. My hair was coming back fuller. I felt better. And I could actually be in the sun for much longer, where previously I would burn in about 15 minutes. And now I can pretty much be outside all day in like South Florida for a big chunk of the day. So when we care for our immune system, because you did bring up COVID, your skin will show you the benefits of that too. I've experienced that as well.

Melanie Avalon:
I definitely noticed something. I mean, I don't go outside much now, but I definitely, when I changed my diet and reduced my overall oxidative stress levels and inflammation levels, definitely saw a difference in how I would react to the sun, like you mentioned, as far as burning versus not. It's so interesting. Like you wouldn't think that, well, maybe a lot of this audience would think that, but a lot of people wouldn't make any connection to that, that your, you know, susceptibility to burning or not would be affected by your overall inflammation or your diet or anything like that, but it can have a profound effect. I experienced that for sure. And I shudder thinking about, thinking about myself in like middle school and high school, the diet I was eating, the lifestyle I was living, and then how I would just go outside and like slather myself in oil and just bake in the sun. I'm just, I shudder thinking about it now, but oh well.

Rachel Varga:
All of us have been there, especially for listeners who are 16 & up who grew up in the iodine and baby oil era.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. Yes. Oh my goodness. It's so bad. It's okay. I've got you. I've got you. Oh man. One other just quick comment. Probably the clearest and most radiant my skin looked and I want to go back to eating this food more again, but it's just now it's just a little bit too sweet for me. But I used to, I went through a phase where I was eating so much pineapple, like we're talking pounds of pineapple every day and the bromelain from that pineapple. I just felt so uninflamed and my skin just glowed and any of those like growth type things were gone. And what was interesting is I remember I had surgery once and the recommendation was they were like, if you have like eat pineapple before and after. And I just thought it was so interesting that clearly there's something working there. And this is not like an app for pineapple or anything like that. I'm just talking about the incredible profound effects that we can have from addressing inflammation from the inside out, from whatever means it may be. You can really see the difference on the outside.

Rachel Varga:
Yeah, bromelain, when it's extracted into a supplement, the bromelain is primarily extracted from the stem of the plant. Although the bromelain itself, that enzyme does exist in the flesh of the plant. And I actually just the other day taught a lesson in my skin tutorials on pre and post recovery tips. And things like asymptote and bromelain are pretty common to be recommended and are seen in different sort of like topical homeopathic supportive agents for post surgery and inflammation. And is pineapple considered a citrus?

Melanie Avalon:
Actually, I don't it's not in the same family as like lemon or orange.

Rachel Varga:
One of the things that I learned when I did some specific food testing, which, you know, a lot of you listening probably did was I needed to actually eat more citrus. So now, you know, right now, while we're recording here, I'm drinking hot water, filtered water, of course, and lemon and honey. And yeah, pineapple, I think it's delicious. And there are some benefits to it, which I think is, I don't actually think it's part of the citrus family. It's just absolutely delicious.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, they're both tropical, I just looked it up, but it's not actually citrus. But speaking about the stem part, so when I was eating so much pineapple, when I got whole pineapples, I would actually chew the stem as well.

Rachel Varga:
I hope you washed it well with vinegar, baking soda, and water though.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, wait. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm talking about the core, the core of it. You're talking about where there's a lot of bromelain. Yeah, because there's pesticides. Oh, oh, well, yeah. And I would do only organic, but like the core is more concentrated in bromelain. So I would, that's what I would chew, but it would wreck my tongue every night because of the enzymes. But I think those enzymes were doing some magic, dissolving, you know, problematic proteins in my body. But oh my goodness, it would do a number on my tongue. I was like, this is intense. One, actually one more question just, and maybe this is evident to listeners, but we've been talking a lot about IPL and this, you know, photo bio modulation. So just to be super clear for listeners, IPL is a laser treatment. It's different from something we talk about all the time in the biohacking world, which is red light. Like Kathleen wanted to know, does red light therapy really work on wrinkles? If so, how often and how long should you do the red light therapy? Because I think a lot of my listeners have red light therapy devices and I actually get asked this all the time about using it for skin health. So how do you feel about those type of devices?

Rachel Varga:
Great question. To clarify, intense pulsed light is not a true laser. So a laser is basically laser amplified light. It's very directed and intense pulsed light is more of like a broad band of a wavelength of light that's looking for a chromophore and a target being reds or browns or browns in hair. And what I like to recommend, I do love red light. My red light is right beside of here. And what I recommend before getting into different expensive technologies that yes, do serve a function and there's lots of great research on this stuff too, but it's actually to start with reducing oxidative stress with air purification, water purification, limiting LED exposure, reducing EMF exposure through wearing clothing and grounding outside and regularly detoxing. And the reason why I position my opinion is to do biohacking in this way from a purification standpoint first is similar to if you have a leaky pipe behind a wall and you need to take that wall apart, replace the pipe, get rid of any moisture so you don't get mold. But to do that, you kind of have to take the furniture out of the room first. Otherwise, you're going to be tripping over the furniture and you're going to be getting drywall dust and all sorts of things on your things. So similar to the effect of reducing oxidative stress status first, clear things out, clear the furniture out of the room first, and then do some of the deeper things that will I think have more of an impact than red light therapy on your body when it's already really trying to manage oxidative stressors from the environment and air water lighting electromagnetics and pathogens and microbes. Then I recommend doing red light. Then I recommend doing some of the more fancy things in the biohacking space that are going to take more time and money to do and get your hands on. But for sleep, oh my gosh, when I take a hot bath before bed, take my magnesium, I got my red light going while I'm doing my heatless hair curls, which I also have a tutorial for in my seasonal skin tutorials. I love having red light and there is evidence that the red light supports our mitochondria. So is it going to eliminate fine lines and wrinkles? I don't think that it's possible to make that claim. But what I do think it's going to do is if you're doing all the other things that we talked about, your skincare, oxidative stress stuff through biohacking tools, and then adding that, I think that that can simply be another supportive layer.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, this has been absolutely amazing, Rachel. So many things. I love how I kept thinking this during the interview, how every single question I asked you, I mean, you just were a wealth of knowledge about all of it and you addressed all the parts of all of their questions. And I just can't thank you enough for everything that you're doing. I love how you're, you know, helping bridge the gap between the world of biohacking and then this world of, you know, the cosmetic world. And by that gap, I'm just speaking to what we're talking about earlier, where I think people silo it into judgment and shame on the cosmetic procedure, cosmetic, well, just everything cosmetic related side of things versus the quote, health and biohacking. And so I just, I love what you're doing. I love the papers you're writing. I love what you're doing with your online school and your one -on -one consults, which again, listeners can go to the school of radiance .com. Use the coupon code Melanie Avalon for 15% off. I definitely recommend signing up for a one -on -one with Rachel. If you enjoyed this show, she'll be able to really, really help you guys. I can't wait to see you again this year for sure at biohacking conference, if not before that'll be so fun. I can't wait.

Rachel Varga:
Thank you. I look forward to seeing you again as well. I loved your energy when we connected in person. And for those of you listening, when Melanie and I connect for interviews, we nerd out so hard. You're definitely going to want to check out our episode on the School of Radiance podcast as well. I adore you. I adore your energy. I think you're so much fun. And I remember last time I was on the show, I had a really lovely time connecting with your community too. So that code, Melanie Avalon, is for 15% off one -on -ones. It's also 15% off of my seasonal skin tutorials and my membership, which is where I go really deep into the etiquette, communication, and a lot of the things I do behind the scenes that I'm not quite comfortable talking about publicly. And yeah, just really excited to continue to bridge this gap and bring together the medical aesthetics world and the biohacking world, because I think the future, and we're starting to see this now, of longevity is actually combining these worlds. And I have a pretty good track record of seeing the writings on the wall of things happening before they come to fruition. Case in point, I've been doing online consultations for international clients since 2017 before people even knew what Zoom was, and I have a good track record for my judgment, thinking about different rejuvenation options. Does the benefit outweigh the risk and all these things? And communicating in a way that is going to be supportive and positive is really key and to be balanced. So I'm looking forward to where the biohacking and longevity space is going and for the technology in that world to just continue to get even better to help us all look and feel our best as well.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, I love that and in the spirit of all of that, I don't know if you remember this from last time, but the last question that I ask every single guest on this show and it's just because I realize more and more each day how important mindset is, which is something we talked about all throughout this show. What is something that you're grateful for?

Rachel Varga:
I am grateful for having a life of peace and having beautiful people around me and grateful that I can work in the way that I work so that I can have a balanced life. What I'm most grateful for though is to be of service and to be of service to help others look and feel their best. Of course, I get the benefits of this too along the way with learning about all these things, but I'm just really grateful that I am doing something that is of service and is just helping people look better and look better because at the end of the day, the more of us that are healthier and have positive emotional states, other people will notice and they'll start to ask then you what you're doing from the things that Melanie and I have shared here. They'll start to notice that something's a little different about you, something's a little shifted for the better and then you get to maybe share one thing, not the fire hose biohacking, all the things. One thing to them, support them and inspire them to be better. So at the end of the day, that's my mindset. That's what I'm grateful for is to, again, help to bring this balance into the world through ourselves being more balanced. Then other people learning those strategies that we can then share in a place of leadership because we're doing the work, we're learning about all these things and have better families and relationships, of course, as well.

Melanie Avalon:
World needs more of that. 100%. I feel the exact same way. It's why I love, I just love doing this. Like I love this show. Like you said, I get to learn about all these things I want to learn about and then share it with others. I'm just so grateful for it. And the community, I'm just so grateful for the community. It's my friends, my family, the audience, all the fellow biohackers. It's all really, really wonderful. So yay, well, this has been so fabulous. Thank you for your time. You've been so generous with it. And I'm so excited to talk more about all of this in the future.

Rachel Varga:
Absolutely. And just know that you're never alone in this journey of being your healthiest, brightest, most high vibe, radiant version. You're not alone. It just comes down to being radiant yourself and then you will become a magnet for attracting other people that have shared health values like you do here because I know I can be lonely. So it's all good. We're here and we're in, we're in it together, helping each other out, learning from one another. Thank you, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon:
I love it. Thanks, Rachel. I'll talk to you next time. Bye, everybody. Bye.