The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #239 - Misha Tate

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)


Melanie Avalon:
Friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation that I'm about to have. So for the backstory on today's conversation, I am good friends with Dave Asprey, who I've had on this show multiple times as well and about a year ago, probably he told me that I had to take this thing called the erotic blueprint quiz. I wasn't sure what to expect. I took the quiz online and I was really, really fascinated by my results because it really just seemed to capture what I've been experiencing with my own sexuality and romantic relations and things like that. And so I do have my quiz results here. So hopefully on the show, we can maybe go through them a little bit. Honestly, I was fascinated because it gave me an entire new approach to seeing and understanding how people approach erotic relationships beyond what Jaya, who I'm here with today calls the sexual type, which is what society often looks at with sex, which is kind of just like sex, which we will talk about in today's show. So fast forward a little bit. I was reached out to because Jaya was writing a book about this whole work. So I was so, so thrilled. I remember, I literally remember when I got the pitch email about it and I was like, oh my goodness, yes, I get to like learn all about this. And so she released the book, Your Blueprint for Pleasure, Discover the Five Erotic Types to Awaken and Fulfill Your Desires. And I just can't recommend enough that literally everybody please read this book and learn about this work. Not only have I personally done it for myself, but now I've recommended it to so many friends and people. And it really just explained so much. It's like the secret that everybody needs to know. So I have so many questions about this book, especially after reading it. But I am here with the sexologist Jaya. So Jaya, thank you so much for being here.

Jaiya:
Oh, it's such a pleasure.

Melanie Avalon:
I love hearing that backstory, how fun. I know, I'm seriously just obsessed. And what was so interesting, cause I pulled up my results to have in front of me and it just really helped explain. And I wish I could just like dive into the results because listeners don't know what they are, but basically there's five types. There's the sensual, the shape shifter, the kinky, the sexual and the energetic. And what I thought was so funny is I'm 0% sexual. So like, how often are people, by the way, a 0% in one of the types?

Jaiya:
It's rare that people have zero in one of the types. It actually is. And so I actually did, too. I was 0% kinky. And so anyway, well, when we dive into it more, I'll talk about my partner and I and that. And he was 0% sexual, too.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, okay. So yeah, it happens, but it's rare. It was really interesting too. And I realized we probably need to have a foundational conversation so listeners can keep up. But what's interesting, just hearing about the 0% kinky is, I think with with your work, if people weren't familiar with you, and they just heard about you and who you are and what you do, and then they would probably have a stereotype of what kinky is. And I feel like they would probably associate your type of work with more of the kinky side of things, you know, I think they would be surprised by that. Yeah, to hear that I was a zero. Yeah, yeah. So so that we can give the listeners some information here, your personal story, you talk about it in the book, you talk about this, you know, potential shockingness of a sexologist being in a seemingly sexless relationship for a bit, what was your own journey, leading to what you're doing with all this work. And I know you talk about your upbringing and all that stuff. So why, why are you doing this today?

Jaiya:
Yeah, let's start at the end. I mean, why am I doing it today here now on this podcast? And I, it always comes down to me, this topic of liberation, and who we really are. So I'm going to start maybe a little bit esoteric, but I believe that our sexuality is the final frontier of personal growth. You know, we look in all these other areas, our health and money and, you know, our, our mental health. And so we're looking at all these different areas, but we often leave sex out. And we don't think of it as an area of personal growth or personal development. I think that's changing, which is really, really exciting. And so we get to this, this idea of liberation and sexual liberation. And I believe that when we're sexually liberated, it liberates so many other areas of our life. And it's through a series of sexual awakenings that we come to this place of, of liberation, and then we're free, we're free of the shame, we're free of the guilt, we're free of, you know, anything that we're deeming as not okay. And in that freedom, we, we discover more deeply who we are. So I believe sex is this tool for awakening. And I'm, I'm so passionate about it. I'm just so passionate about humanity as a collective, having erotic liberation and awakening.

Melanie Avalon:
It really resonates with me because, and I've talked about this on the show before, but I was raised very religious, like Bible, Bell, Christian, South. So sex was just bad. Like it was not a good thing. And honestly, I can honestly say I think the biggest awakening probably that I've had to date or at least the biggest epiphany and sight moment that I've had in my life was when I did first have sex because I had been taught so much that it was about my worth and that it was about my, you know, identity and that once I had sex, I would be, I would lose my worth essentially. And so then I remember when I first had sex and I was like, Oh, what? I was like, that was all a lie. Like literally lie. Like I felt like my eyes were just completely opened. So that was probably my first like big awakening. And then since then I was like, Oh, I've just got to like, I've got to spread the word. But there's so much more beyond that.

Jaiya:
you say that though because I think that's part of what got me into all this was I grew up religious as well like super Catholic and you know sex was bad my body was bad being a woman was bad you know I think I heard every day like women should be submissive to men and women are evil and there's the seductresses and all of these things and we all get that conditioning and programming somehow because we live in a sex negative culture you know be it from religion or from parents or and sometimes well -meaning you know there's it's not always malicious but I think that we get these these messages and then when we have that awakening of like oh my god it was all a lie and I remember just having even just on my own like self -pleasure I remember I'd be I was really young and I'd pray to god to be like I promise god I'll stop self -pleasuring when I reach a certain age you know like like but it was my connection to god like so there was always this like strange experience of like but this is ecstatic and this is joyful and this like opens my heart there must there's some incongruency with the messages that I'm getting and my felt experience that I'm having and so the felt experience didn't match up and that where there was enough in that of curiosity that I was like I gotta tell my friends about this thing and I have to like find out what's the truth about this thing so I'd like go to the library I didn't even have a such a geek I would spend my day at the library and and I would go sneak into the sexuality section to like read the books to you know find out all that I could find out before I even had sex because I was just so curious about what is this thing and how do I do it well

Melanie Avalon:
And what's really interesting and really telling, I think if you can look at culture and remove all of the ingrained biases and upbringings and everything that we have that saturate society, I find it fascinating that just from like a rating or a censorship perspective, it's completely okay. Like violence is completely okay to show in movies and TV. Like we can watch people literally killing other people, but it's not okay to see people making love. Like that's bad. Like that.

Jaiya:
to me. I never understood it when I was younger. I would always be like, you won't let me watch the sex scene, but I can watch people murdering each other. Like I just didn't understand it at all when I was young. And I still don't understand it today. You know, I worked with Playboy for a little while. And one of the producers had left the big networks to come work with Playboy. And she said something to me that was so shocking. I asked her why, why would you leave a big network, you know, to come work with Playboy. And she said, you know, on the big networks, I can show a woman naked dead. So her body mutilated or like in a murder scene. But I can't show anybody in pleasure. And I just thought that's so wrong. So I came to work for Playboy so that I could show people in pleasure. And I was like, wow, that really really I still have chills just talking about it was like a day that like, it really shook me that, wow, our media can show violence and can eroticize violence. But we can't actually show authentic pleasure.

Melanie Avalon:
that's mind blowing. Yeah, that's going to stick with me. I'm curious when you were a young girl in the library reading those books, was the information in there like what information did you find? Was it still like patriarchal or science or what did you find there?

Jaiya:
I mean, it's interesting. I would do a lot of looking up anatomy and physiology. So I would like actually find like more scientific stuff that I really enjoyed. Like I want to know my anatomy and I would go home and I would get the mirror out and I would like find all the parts. And even then, I mean, then we didn't have all the parts of the clitoris. A lot of the clitoris even got taken out of books for about 100 years. We lost the internal structures of the clitoris. So it wasn't even included in a lot of the books I was looking up. And, and I was really fascinated with like how babies were made. So I would look up stuff about reproduction. And then my naughty little secret was romance novels. Like I loved sci -fi, like romance novels. I think I got a little imprinting there from, from some sci -fi romance kind of led into my blueprint, I think.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm getting flashbacks. I totally forgot about this. My mom doesn't listen to this episode. I used to like middle school, probably middle school, high school sleepovers. What we would do, I was like the writer and I would write erotic fan fiction about my friends with like celebrities and then we would like read it. So like everybody would get the sleepover and I would go like right in the corner and then we would like read it to everybody. So yeah, wow.

Jaiya:
I love that. I mean, where our imaginations can go erotically is anywhere. There's no limits to how we can turn ourselves on and within our own minds. And so I love that. I love that, you know, in those early experiences, I think, because we aren't having maybe physical experiences yet, but we can we can go to erotic places in our own minds. That's fascinating to me.

Melanie Avalon:
Did you have a moment, an epiphany insight moment that led to creating the erotic blueprint types and also a question for that? So one of my friends that I gave this to, I was like, you have to do this. And so he did it and he was taking the quiz, but the whole time he was commenting, he was like, he was commenting about how he didn't want to be boxed in by a quiz and like, you know, everybody this day is like typifying things and everything's a type. So how did you come up with these different types? Like, yeah, how did you come up with them? Like, did you know that there was going to be five? Like, what was that process like?

Jaiya:
It was a very organic process. I think part of it came out of my own pain. You know, you talked about the chapter early in the book of like the sexologist who's in the sexless relationship. It's like, I'm trying to figure out my own partner was part of it. But a bigger part is just my clients always teach me, you know, as a somatic sexologist, I get to peek into very, very intimate parts of people's lives. And a couple had come to me and they were really struggling in the bedroom. He was having a hard time getting an erection. And she was trying all the, you know, all the things in like Cosmo magazine, or, you know, she was getting like sex tip books and trying out all the things in the sex tip books. And nothing was working. So they came to see me and we got them on the massage table. And I do like a body mapping type of thing where we map out, I have her touch different parts of his body and we start to map out, you know, where his arousal and eroticism lies. And I started to notice that really like, he kind of was like a zero on most of the touches. So I went off of his body and I was hovering my hands above his body, just kind of intending to send energy, but just more like hovering. And his body started kind of to quiver and shake and move and all of a sudden he got an erection and his eyes opened up really wide and he looked at me and he's like, what are you doing to me? Like, I'm not really doing anything. You're just wired energetically. And that was the first time that I really, it was like an aha moment where a light bulb went off that we really are different in our arousal. And if we approach, especially we have this idea that like all men are sexual blueprinted, if we approach it from that standpoint, then, you know, we're missing out on a whole, like there's five other, there's five blueprints. So there's four other blueprints and he happened to be wired energetically. So then we're just had his wife start to do that. And it really helped them in terms of her understanding because she was going for all the like, right straight for the genital techniques. And that was short circuiting him because he was probably a zero sexual on the quiz.

Melanie Avalon:
So, to clarify for listeners, so when you're doing this work, this somatic work, so, like, in that moment, you, not the wife, was the one leading to the erection from the energetic? Yeah, I was...

Jaiya:
hovering my hands about two feet above his body so people could imagine he's on the massage table and none of the techniques that you know she was doing on him in terms of the touch was doing anything so I just was like well let me try something and I went really high you know like two three feet above his body physically just into his energetic field and then he started to have this experience and then I just showed her how to do the same thing where she didn't necessarily need to be touching him

Melanie Avalon:
It's like he's responding to a very mechanical thing in a way, like a very physical thing rather than the story of it.

Jaiya:
Yeah, he was he was responding to the energy and not being touched more so. So some people, the more you touch them, they short circuit and dissociate from their body. But if you give them space, and they can long for the touch, and you tease them by not touching them, they're more turned on.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. So, and that really resonated with me. So like in my breakdown, I was 33 .33% energetic. And I loved how you described it in the book as it's this moment of anticipation, like the moment before the kiss. It really hit me because I've always experienced in my romantic encounters that not that I dread the actual like moment of coming together, but I just love the anticipation of it all so much that I like don't want that to end. I just like want that to like, and then what's so interesting is like, you know, I'm 0% sexual, and then learning more about the sexual, they're all about in a way, you know, the certainty of having the sexual encounter. So you can see how if you have two people together, like a person who's higher on the sexual scale, they're all about that certainty at the end, whereas the energetic is about the moment leading up to it, what can happen there. And you do say though in the book that it's a myth of incompatibility. So is it a myth of incompatibility? Can the different types be compatible?

Jaiya:
So I believe that it is a myth about sexual incompatibility or that we're mismatches and and here's why If you I'll just use the analogy of food So if you really like to eat salad and your partner really likes to eat fruit and you like greens and they like fruit Are you incompatible in relationship because you like two different foods? Or are you willing to create fruit salad? You know, are you willing to They can eat fruit and you can eat salad and that's okay You can still chop up fruit and make fruit for them and they can still make a salad for you, you know, so I think that Really what it comes down to is not compatibility. It comes down to are you willing? To learn and understand your partner and then do the things that actually turn them on So if you have differences, you're not doomed if you have different libido, you're not doomed if you have Different blueprints you're not doomed It's just that you need a level of willingness to learn skill sets to learn if it were languages to learn how to speak their language to learn how to make a fruit salad because That is that's what we do for the people that we love we Find the areas of willingness and we lean into those areas of willingness. We learn so that we constantly be innovating in our erotic lives

Melanie Avalon:
So even if it's as intense as like a vegan and a carnivore, for example, where they're completely different, they can still learn.

Jaiya:
Absolutely. I mean, do you know, vegans and carnivores who are in relationship with each other? They make it work. It's actually a really good question. You know, I may not like that you eat meat, but I love you. Or, you know, we have had different health needs. You know, right now, I have to eat meat because of some health needs that I'm going through. And my son's a vegetarian. I don't stop loving my son because he's a vegetarian. He doesn't stop loving me because I have a health thing now where I have to eat meat, you know, like, we still love each other.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, okay, I love that. Or if you go out to dinner, you can eat their extra salad and they can eat your extra.

Jaiya:
Exactly, exactly.

Melanie Avalon:
Could you just go through so listeners can get an idea of the five types so then we can talk about it more easily, the five types. Sure.

Jaiya:
So the first one that I like to talk about is the energetic and we've already been alluding to that one It's someone who's turned on by the anticipation the space the tea is the longing they love to yearn on The shadow side of the energetic. It's that they short -circuit because there's too much sensation too quick too fast They get overstimulated. They dissociate from their body their superpowers. They have this incredible sensitivity which can also be the shadow But the incredible sensitivity actually has them as highly they're highly orgasmic beings It does not take much to get them into an orgasmic state You just have to know the right way to do that. So that sensitivity is a great superpower Sometimes they're mistaken as being frigid or cold, but they're not frigid or cold. They're just very very very sensitive The next is essential and essential someone who's turned on by all of their senses being ignited So taste touch smell eating something so delicious while they're listening to a gorgeous piece of music In a beautiful candlelit environment. It's what we think of when we think of romance or sensuality and The shadow side of the sensual. There's more than one shadow I'm giving the the cliff notes But the the shadow side that mainly shows up is getting stuck in your head and having a hard time Actually getting into your body and feeling all the pleasure that's in the body the superpower However, is that you can have non genital orgasms like orgasms from eating food orgasms behind the knees I talk about crevice sex I get really into all the different crevices in the body little areas like that where you can Put your tongue or have your breath on them or kiss them And so the sensual can have orgasms in those other areas not just generally focused and then the genital focused one is the sexual We've been talking about that a little bit too And this is what we think of when we think of a sex in our culture So it's intercourse nudity having orgasms Beautiful thing about the sexual and the superpower of the sexual is that they can go from zero to 60 pretty quickly They usually have high drives Sex is something that helps them to deeply relax and feel like everything is right in the world Whereas it's interesting with a sensual. They need to feel relaxed before they can go into the sexual experience Which is also, you know, like that can show kind of where that feels like Oh, there might be a mismatch But actually when we have willingness and and different ways to meet each other that can be easily overcome And so the sexual and the shadow side, however, is this limited definition of sex? They think that sex equals successful sex as means like erections wetness penetration oftentimes and If those things aren't happening, then that's not successful sex and they also can judge the other blueprints of like what's wrong with you You know, I'm having what sex is that's all we need we don't need anything else and so they can get really easily frustrated and have a hard time understanding and expanding into a new blueprint territory and Then the kinky is someone who's turned on by the taboo and this could be anything that's taboo for you So this could be psychological like playing power dynamic games or this could be more impact oriented where it's more physical Could be like a rope tie or spanking and then the shadow side of the kinky is shame. Why am I like this? Why do I like these things that are edgy or outside of the box? And the superpowers endless creativity like we can play in the realms of kink for the rest of our lives and never learn all the rope Ties there are to learn there's so much to learn and so many fascinating things that are within this blueprint And then the final one is the shapeshifter. This might be your friend who said why do we have to type things? shapeshifters are someone who's all of it and They love it all they want it all if you heard yourself in all of these then you may be a shapeshifter and The shapeshifter shadow is that they're amazing lovers which could be also the superpower But they shapeshift themselves to be those lovers which often means that they're starving and they're told often that they're too much They want too much They're too complex and so it's hard it's hard for them sometimes to get their knees met and it's just easier for them to just Shapeshift to what their partner is as opposed to really being in the fullness of all that they are

Melanie Avalon:
I love this. I have so many questions. You make the comment or the hypothesis that perhaps we actually are all shapeshifters. I was wondering, so my sister, for example, I had her take the quiz and she was almost equally split between the five. Would that also be kind of like a shapeshifter because she's equal with all the things?

Jaiya:
Yeah, if you're if you take the test and it comes up like what often it'll be like in the 20s, it'll be like 23% on each one, then you're likely a shapeshifter. Sometimes you'll lead with one blueprint that kind of leads you into all of it. Because most of us have like one primary blueprint, and this is kind of a little bit more advanced idea, but we have like a stack. And so the primary blueprint is kind of like your gateway in its if I think of it like a combination lock. So we start with a primary blueprint, and then the rest of them will then open it up. Even if you're a 0% sexual, if you can hit that combination, it will open up the sexual. Oftentimes, not always.

Melanie Avalon:
really do highly recommend people get the book because you have a quiz online that you can take and you can get the results with the free quiz of and it'll give you like your dominant type but I find it so helpful to have the breakdown because like for example for me I'll just give my results. I was 38 .89% sensual which is what I would have guessed that I was mostly sensual but I was then 33 .33% energetic so if I hadn't gotten the breakdown I wouldn't have realized that my energetic was almost you know just as much as the sensual and then I was 22 .22% kinky, 5 .56% shapeshifter and like I said 0% sexual which I thought was so funny. So I have some more questions about the individual ones but before that I'm super curious. The evolution of these types in humans you spoke before about all the you know the books you would read about science and all that. Have you looked at animals at all? I'm wondering are animals all just sexual or do animals have different types? I think it's

Jaiya:
is hilarious because we always talk about like, we have our cat. And she like, is so funny. She just like goes over this post, and then she won't like let you pet her any other time, but she goes over the post, she looks at you, she sticks her butt in the air. And then she just wants her butt like hit over and over. I'm like, we have a kinky energetic cat, like our cat is completely kinky energetic. But like you could, you could kind of tell. I mean, I think that our that animals do give signals like even just around the us touching them. You know, especially our pets. And so like, in this, this isn't like eroticism with your animal, I'm saying more like like the touch with your animal of like petting them. Do they come? Are they eager? Are they more sensual? Do they like more like pets? I think that animals do have different blueprints. I don't have any research on that. But I think it's just it's just an interesting thing. But there is the procreative drive that's going to drive us then to be and I wonder if this is different with house pets because they've been you know, spayed or neutered that then they get more energetic or something like that.

Melanie Avalon:
It also makes you think about animals that have like mating dances or, you know, like the peacock with like the colors, like maybe peacocks or sensuals. Yeah, that's so, so interesting. Some more questions about the individual types. So the sensual type is what I was primarily and reading that chapter really, really resonated with me because I'm the type where the lighting has to be right. The music has to be right. Like I have to have my Lana Del Rey playlist that I always play. And I will get all in my head if the, like, if the lighting is not good. Like I literally, if, if it was like bad lighting, I just couldn't do it. So I definitely experienced that shadow side of that. So for something like that, and I know it's like a really specific issue to me, but for people who are about the romance and the lighting and the environment, how can we not get caught up in our heads and deal with that shadow aspect of it?

Jaiya:
Yeah, I mean, one thing is just to make sure that your environment is really awesome. And that's it. That's an easy, you know, easy fix there. I had a partner once of a sensual and he's like, Oh, like, how do I get her in the mood? I was like, take five minutes to clean up the bedroom. Like, it's so easy. Like, put on, you know, change the light bulb so that they're on dimmers. Put on her favor, you know, just doing those things. And I think that sensuals can judge themselves as like, Oh, my God, I need all these things, you know, to get in the mood. But it's okay, you're, you're you bring the beauty to the experience. So I think that there's a part of just self accepting that here are the things I need to do to be in the right space. And I'm going to take care of myself in that or ask for someone to take care of me in that, such that I can then relax into it. I also talk about toggles and toggles are like just little tricks you can do to help yourself move into erotic space. And that could be maybe a piece of clothing that you put on taking a hot bath, listening to your playlist and doing some movement. What are things that can help you let go of the outside world and move into the space of eroticism?

Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness. I'm having an in -real -time epiphany right now around this because you talk about it's essential that has to finish their to -do list first, right? Yes, yes. So this is so funny because I've dated a lot long -distance relationships. If a person wants to have a call during the day, they'll want to have a call during the day. I'm like, I can't do that. I can't be in the moment of a call like that. Everything has to be done. So I literally have to have that transition time that you talk about in the book. Wow. That is very mind -blowing to me. I love what you said just now about not having the judgment. That's really, really helpful. I think that's something I had to implement, not for sex, but for sleep. I think sleep is so important for health. I have all of these boundaries around sleep and I have to have my cooling mattress and my blue light blocking glasses and all the things. I had to have a moment where I just accepted that that's what I do to get my sleep. So I love this theme of letting go of self -judgment surrounding everything.

Jaiya:
I think it's one of the things that the blueprints brings is this, well, this is who I am in this moment. And when we move into the self -acceptance, our arousal can blossom, our eros can blossom. And what's interesting too, I talk about erotic space versus other space with essentials. But I do want to say that eroticism is always, like eros is everywhere because eros is a life force. And so I think also essentials can tap into this idea that like, okay, this is eros. And now this, even doing this podcast right now, my life force is moving through my body. And this is eros, this is making love. Right now we are making love making this podcast. And so it gets to be even more delicious with that mindset that that life force wants to express itself and that eros wants to move through us. And that's always that never goes away or else we're dead.

Melanie Avalon:
I love that, and now I'm getting, this is like the episode of flashbacks, now I'm having flashbacks too. It was either the Louvre or the Vatican, some museum that I went to while traveling growing up. You know, you go in the gift store and you buy like whatever souvenirs you want, and the thing I got that I treasured for so long, I think it was like part of me, I don't know, I think it just shows how much I'm drawn to all of this, is I got a little tiny book of the Eros statue, and it literally said Eros, and it was a statue, and I was like, this is my thing. And it was like, so like, and that's when I was, you know, much younger. So I just wanted to share that. But another like epiphany moment I had reading your book. So speaking about the sexual again, which again, like you, like we were talking about is very much the way sex is presented in culture. This was a really helpful moment for me to see how just how biased we can be and the lens and the filters through which we see the world. Because you said in the book, you did a poll where you polled sexuals about either like what were they most turned on by or how would they like to be greeted. And the result was that they wanted to be greeted with like their lover touching their genitals, which to me is like, that would turn me off. So if somebody did that to me, I'd be like, Oh, wow, we cannot. But the point of it was I had a moment reading that I was like, wow, it's like, but that is somebody else's truth. Like to their experience, that is what turns them on, whereas that would turn me off. So I think it's just so helpful for people to explore these and, you know, understand that we see the world differently. So thank you for that.

Jaiya:
Yeah, and I think this comes down to really honoring each other. That's why I love the personality typing systems and why I do love some of these labels, I think helps us to understand who another person is so that we can honor them for who they are in their reality and in their world. And I do like your friend, you know, I do believe there is a place beyond all of this, but I think we need these things for understanding at first. And then we come to recognize maybe like a shape shifter that wow, if I'm truly free, and I'm erotically liberated, then I'm all of these things. There's no limitation to who and who I am and what I could be turned on by and what I could experience pleasure wise.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, to that point, you know, this idea of coming to being a shape shifter, do you find people's quiz results change if they take it at different times in their life?

Jaiya:
Yeah, the quiz results do change. I think there are a couple of factors that weigh into that. One is the partner you're with can affect that. Like if your partner is, let's say your partner is all sexual, your sexual might go down even more because they're filling that spot. And I think we try to complete each other and we need a little bit of that opposite pairing for some of the arousal and connection. And so that could, that could affect things. And then there's also life events, having a baby, going through menopause, health crises. These are going to change blueprint. I think people will tend to go more energetic during those types of or sensual during those types of experiences. And then I also feel like when we go on this sexual journey of the erotic blueprints, we start to expand and we start to expand into new territory that we've never expanded into. And we start to have these sexual awakenings. And then we get to this place of becoming a shape shifter. Pretty much all of our students by the end of their journey are more developed. And because our blueprint, our primary blueprint shows us where we're limited and they more fully develop into their shape shifterness or even going to a place beyond these blueprints.

Melanie Avalon:
Have you taken your own quiz historically throughout the process?

Jaiya:
Yeah, I have and you know, it's fun because we've redesigned the quiz a number of times and oftentimes it comes from just new things I'm learning or just ways to make it more accurate. And, you know, when I first took it, I was primarily sexual and then energetic was almost exactly the same. It was like off by 1%, so sexual energetic. And I think I lead more with my energetic, like my energetic has to feel safe first before I'll go sexual, but then it's like immediate sexual. So I was then only 5% sensual and 0% kinky and my partner was complete opposite. He was most kinky then sensual and 5% energetic and 0% sexual. So we were complete opposite and was so telling, you know, to take my own quiz and be like, Oh my God, like, you know, we know we've had this challenge, but like, and we've, we've worked, you know, really hard to overcome it, but this look at this and really what made us successful again was the willingness. He was so willing to learn how to become an energetic and willing to do his inner work around his belief systems that if he's sexual, he's imposing his sexuality on women. And you know, he had a lot of like the nice guy thing and I'm like, please bring your sexual like, please bring your libido. And he had to do some inner work on the shame around the sexuality of the masculine. You know, he didn't want to be one of those guys. And then I had to do my work. I didn't, I was like, what kinky, you know, it was like, it was the last blueprint that came out because I had such a blind spot around it because I had 0% kinky.

Melanie Avalon:
That's so interesting like I was saying earlier because I think just people making assumptions about, I feel like people make assumptions about the sexual because like that's culture and then like the kinky and that's for like the people that are like weird with sex or people who are like you know obsessed with sex. Question about the, because you spoke about you know the ideas that your partner had that were leading to this idea about men and culture and sex and everything. So how much of these different types do you think come from our upbringing? Is any of this genetic? Like are we born a certain way? What's the role there?

Jaiya:
Yeah, that's a really interesting one. And I wish somebody would really do some great research. But what I've seen from clinical observation is that our sexuality is often shaped by conditioning and programming and our upbringing. So different things can shape it like trauma. You know, I've seen usually a lot of times if people feel unsafe, they will go more towards the energetic or sensual blueprints. And if there's a hypervigilance in the nervous system, people will lean more towards sensual. So I think it's a combination from what I've seen in my practice of events that happen in our lives that can affect our nervous system, that can affect our neurochemistry, and also what we've been taught and told about sex growing up. And then I think part of it is also just how we're wired, like how we come into this world and what we come into this world to learn and experience.

Melanie Avalon:
And to that point, the role of trauma and everything, because you have a lot of really interesting discussions surrounding that, well, first, actually, a question before that. I find it so interesting that in this fight -or -flight response that we have, distress and trauma, people normally think of, like, fight or flight. Some people think of freeze. Some people think of fawn. But you actually add in fuck as a response. So can sex actually be a response to trauma?

Jaiya:
Yeah, so there's an interesting I like to talk about the dual control model response of sexual response in the brain. And the dual control model response basically is where some people have more accelerator or breaks. So let me back this up just a little bit. Emily Nagaski in her book Come As You Are talks about this model in terms of a car. And our brain is always scanning for what's sexually relevant. Our brain is going should that turn me on? Should I want to have sex right now? Or should that turn me off? And some of us if there's been trauma, have more breaks on, or the handbrake is on and we're trying to drive our car with a handbrake. And we're putting all these things on the accelerator that should turn us on. But it's not really working because the car doesn't go anywhere if the handbrake and the brake is on. So, you know, oftentimes, it's not about putting more things on the accelerator. It's about how do we heal and take things? You know, how do we take that handbrake off? And that's where, you know, things that lower inhibition come in. And then there are people who have more sexual compulsion. And this would be somebody who has no breaks, and a lot of accelerator. And so that's how we can sometimes explain when we get into like some people just don't have any libido, don't have any desire or drive. And some people have inappropriate sexual behavior, because they have too much of the accelerator on with no break. But when it comes to when we're looking at like sexuality in this way, it's we really want to, one, have compassion, because I think sometimes we can label people too easily as like a sex addict or wanting sex too much or sexually frigid. And I think that those labels aren't helpful at all. I talk about that a little bit in the book too, that it's just not helpful for us to label someone in a shameful way. So we can take that off and look at it more from this point of view of, of when I get stressed, do I have the break on? But when I get stressed, does my arousal actually turn up? So that turns into this, like, the people who want to have sex when they get stressed, because it makes them feel better. And so the fuck response, when you are stressed, about 20% of the population has that, where if they feel stressed, or even a traumatic event is happening, they will turn to sex for comfort and regulation, whereas the majority 80% will turn off

Melanie Avalon:
So, so fascinating, especially with this show, you know, being about biohacking, we're talking about the fight or flight response all the time and like the stress response and people don't talk about that aspect of it. So, so interesting. And then continuing a little bit on the role of trauma, because you mentioned that it's, you know, involved in the sensual and energetic type. I think stepping back, people often associate the kinky type with being like, you know, the weird one and they must have issues. And so what is the role of trauma in the kinky? And also a second question about while we're talking about the kinky is, what is kinky? So like, can you actually be kinky? And it's just because something seems kinky to you, but everybody else would think it's not kinky.

Jaiya:
Yeah, kinky means anything that's taboo for you. So it's a very broad definition in my sense. If it feels taboo, if it feels naughty, if it feels like something you shouldn't be doing, then that falls in the kinky blueprint. Like, so here's another example is just and I tell a lot of these stories in the book, but a couple that I was working with, and they always had sex the same day of the week for 40 years, and then the same position because it was too taboo, because they grew up very religious to have sex any other way. So always missionary style sex on Tuesday afternoon. And so you know, they were like, why is our sex life so boring? There you go. But everything they were more in the kinky blueprint, because everything was taboo for them. So if they had sex on Wednesday in a different position, oh my god, we had sex in a different position. You know, so like, so it's that whatever feels taboo for you is where that kinky blueprint richness is it's it's in the taboo that the turn on lies. you

Melanie Avalon:
talk about in the book about how they have done studies on, I guess, mental or psychological health and how it relates to, you know, kinkiness. And there's not really a connection there. Like kinky people are just similar to everybody else.

Jaiya:
just like everybody else. Yeah, just like everybody else. And I think that that's, you know, that was one of the things with my partner Ian, because he was super high and kinky. He kept going, Why am I like this? Why am I like this? Did I have some kind of trauma in my background? And, you know, we went and studied with a bunch of different people for one of my other books that I wrote on kink called cuff tight and satisfied. And in that one of the practitioners said, Stop asking why and just enjoy that you're this way. You know, and I thought that was really interesting, but also very interesting to see that actually people who are kinky have no level of trauma higher than anybody else. And as a matter of fact, they communicate better, they're more creative. And they have, they just have different skill sets that they've developed because of being kinky and being what used to be an outlier. I think now we have much more conversation about this, we have much more normalization of this, it's not pathologized anymore. I mean, there used to be a time when people would like get risk getting their kids taken away because they were kinky. And you know, that in where it was pathologized. And now you know, that's been shifted and changed. And we have a lot more education around that that that this actually is a way that people are wired and it is a viable turn on it is another way that we explore arrows is through this play of what feels naughty or taboo.

Melanie Avalon:
So was there an actual change with the DSM and BDSM?

Jaiya:
Mm -hmm. Yes. There was an actual change. I believe it was in 2011 that they changed it. They took it out from being a pathology into, it's only if it's distressing to you.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, interesting. Okay. Do you know in the DSM, are there still some things that you would take out?

Jaiya:
Oh, I have no idea what's in there these days. But I bet there are. I bet I would read it. And I would want to change so many things because I think we pathologize a lot of things that are actually just need to be normalized. And they would no longer be a pathology if we normalized. And I think so many of us hide our sexual behavior because we're afraid of being pathologized or deemed weird or wrong or I mean, even the energetics, you know, like let's normalize having multidimensional sex where, you know, you go off into the cosmos and unify with all of creation. Let's let's just normalize that because it's awesome sex.

Melanie Avalon:
also around normalizing what if, because you talk about this in the kinky chapter as well, like people who might only be turned on by a certain thing or a certain way. So is that an issue? Like a broader question is like, so say you have like a really a way that works for you to achieving pleasure. Do we always need to be expanding? Like, is it okay to have your go -to? Like, what is the role there?

Jaiya:
I think it's okay to have your go -to. Just recognize that your go -to can become a neural rut, meaning that you're creating the same neural highway every time you're going to that one, which then can turn into a grave eventually, and it becomes your only route to pleasure. As we know, we want many neural highways to pleasure. Let's find many, many ways to pleasure. I've read something recently, let's see if I can remember this quote, where it was like, enlightenment is when you have tons of pathways to joy, and addiction is when your pathways to joy shrink. Oh, I love that. And I thought, oh my gosh, that's so good. I can't remember who quoted it, but I loved that so much because I think about this in terms of pleasure, like how many pleasure pathways do you have? Sure you can have your go -to. I have my go -to. I have my thing that I know, like this is going to get me there. And I also am constantly opening up new pathways and new neural nets and new ways that I can experience pleasure because that expansion brings me to greater sexual enlightenment and men in awakening and liberation.

Melanie Avalon:
Say you try something sexual, like some sort of technique or experience or way of being turned on within these different blueprints and you don't like it. Are some things just not for us or is it there's like a blockage there and in theory everything should be a potential avenue to an erotic experience?

Jaiya:
I think that's a yes and I think that there are some things that are just like not your thing, just like I don't, you know, like eating me. But for my health, I have to eat me right now. So like, there's that there's like this really interesting thing that I think we can all we can all look at as like, well, what's underneath that thing that you don't like, you know, and can we work through any kind of emotional charge or stuckness that's there? That could be and sometimes you just don't like something. And that's okay. I think it's okay to not like things. I think it's okay that we can have preferences sometimes. And then there and then I'll add, I'm gonna throw a wrench in all of what I just said. And there's a place beyond preference. And when you move beyond all preference, you're you're radically liberated, where the wind can blow the right way. And you're having an orgasm walking down the street if you want to turn on that way. And so I think I think that that that I'm more interested in choice, and having choice over, over what turns us on what doesn't arousal, and being free within that. And so that's the interesting place is that moment where it's like, okay, well, I have a choice, I could totally get into this if I wanted to. But I actually don't really care to have that experience. So I'm okay, I'm okay, not not having that, but I was at choice over not having that.

Melanie Avalon:
Because we know, for example, you know, taste buds take a while to change or like babies, they say that you have to introduce foods to them X amount of times before they may or may not like it. So how intuitive would it be in that whole process that you're just speaking of where you're trying something like, do you think you would need multiple exposures to conclude that this isn't for you?

Jaiya:
don't like something? Yeah, I do. I do. I always say try some something at least three times and make sure you're trying it with an expert who's really, really good at the thing you're trying, like, because that can make a difference, too. If you go to try rope tie with your partner, and your partner has never done rope tie before, you can't expect it to be amazing that first time. It's like, it, I think that sexuality gains has a certain level of skill set. And so, one is the person that you're with or yourself that if you're doing a self pleasure session, do you have the skill sets to actually make it a pleasing experience? If not, then, you know, you may want to gain the skill sets first, do a lot of practice sessions. My partner and I do something called sex labs, where we have these regular labs when we're learning something new, or there's something we're curious about that we want to explore. And we don't expect it to be amazing. We're just doing it to learn and discover. And I think that that's one thing with sex that we get too caught up in, like, oh, when we have the sex, it has to be perfect and great and amazing, as opposed to like, no, we can play, and we can be in the sandbox and learn and discover and experiment. And then that leads to amazing sex with the new thing, it leads to an expansion. And so, I think that there's a lot of room for trying things more than once. And, and I think it's okay to have, again, hard knows, like things that are just like, I don't want to explore that, I don't ever want to explore that. But I'm really curious about that thing and what it is about it that turns you on, because maybe I'm interested in meeting the turn on but not the specific activity.

Melanie Avalon:
And you dropped in some keywords that made me think of something. So the no's, you have a section on, you know, consent and containers of safety. And so what are your thoughts on no's and yes's and no's becoming yes's and yes's becoming no's and what about maybes?

Jaiya:
Yeah. I think consent is one of the hottest things ever. I think some people think, like, oh, we're going to kill the mood by talking about it. We'll talk about it over dinner and get excited about the thing that you're going to do later. Talk about it a few days before you do it. I think consent is so hot. Consent is where you both find your yeses. That's the dance is we are solid yeses. Is it a full -body yes? I've even been doing this thing lately with energetics. Are you a full chakra yes? Is your energy field a full yes here? We want to find that full, strong yes. To remember that during any sexual encounter, a yes can always become a no. But a no cannot become a yes because we get high on our own neurochemicals. Then when you're high, you may want to change your mind about a no that you originally were. Then you'll have consent regret later and you're going to regret because you coerced yourself being high on all your neurochemicals to say yes to something that you weren't a yes with to begin with. Now, if after you come down off of your yummy ecstasy from the sexual experience and you're still a yes, then that becomes a yes for the next session so you can move into that. Then maybe to me is always a no because the maybe is no for now. Maybe I need more information. What are the things that I need in order for that maybe to either go to a no or go to a yes?

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, awesome. And how do you encourage people to approach that initial conversation? Because I would imagine people coming like to your workshops and stuff. I mean, the fact that they're there means that they're at least open, I assume, to all of this. But a lot of people, you know, reading this book might be like nervous about even bringing up these sort of things. And I'm just thinking about, for me, for example, in the past, I had a moment where I was like, I'm gonna write out everything I'm okay with and not okay with and present it to this person. And it was in the context of a natural conversation and he wanted to see it and he wanted to talk about it. But then when I actually did that, put pen to paper, he felt it was controlling to have it written down like that. And I was like, Okay, well,

Jaiya:
know what to do here. That tells me some things about you.

Melanie Avalon:
I guess my question is, you know, how can people even bring up this conversation with their partner? Both the idea of exploring this and also the idea of exploring what they are and are not okay with. Because I love how you say consent is sexy, I'm going to channel that.

Jaiya:
Yeah, I mean, I for me, I'm just laughing at myself because I actually have a spreadsheet that I give people that is like, like 100 things. And it's all like, laid out for blueprints. And it's color coded. And it's like, he just like, here's me. And like, here's what I'm consenting to play.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, it's like my, yeah, that's like next level, it's amazing.

Jaiya:
And I think I think because I'm so like unashamed about it all and just so and that's and that's also like, if somebody was like, Oh my god, that's controlling and like, you're not giving space or freedom, I'd be like, Okay, cool. Bye. Like, I'm not like, I wouldn't be like, we're not gonna play together because I want someone who's like, Oh my god, thank you so much for telling me exactly what you want, need and desire so that we can play freely within this container, you know, or I'd want to get curious, I might not be like, bye, that's a little harsh, but maybe I would be more like, okay, well, tell me more about that. Like, I want to get really curious about the resistances. And so I think that, you know, I'm going to my spreadsheet and stuff. But with couples, I think that, you know, if we get really curious, curious breeds breeds intimacy. And I think that the more that we can be like, well, tell me, you know, tell me what has you afraid of having a conversation like this, or you know what, this is really awkward for me. And, but I really want to have this kind of conversation because I want us to blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever it is that you're desiring. And then if they have defensiveness or resistance to really get curious about that, okay, so it's so tell me more about that what's coming up for you, because I think that all kinds of crazy things can happen in people's heads around sex, you know, like, oh, she was she's talking about sex, that must mean she wants to have sex tonight. It's like, no, I just want to have this conversation with you. And so that curiosity that breeds the intimacy is really, really key. Just get curious with each other. Let it be awkward if it needs to be awkward. And you know, if you're single and dating, I think that I think that that can tell you a lot about a person and you can decide do I want to really want to get curious about this person and keep dating them? Or are these flags that like, I can't even have a conversation about consent with them is that's a flag for me, you know.

Melanie Avalon:
That's so, so helpful. I love you have the spreadsheet. See, now I feel so much better about my, my list. That's amazing. And so using this word curious, you also talk about the different stages that we can be at in our sexual, you know, evolution. And one of them is the curious stage. So how does that curiosity in general relate to these different stages that we can be in?

Jaiya:
Yes, so there's five stages. I'll go over them really quickly. One is resting. That's when you're not having sex. One is healing. That's when you're healing from something. And then there's curious when you're curious about something. And then adventurous is pushing the edges going into different erotic adventures outside of your comfort zone. And then transformational. And transformational is when we're interested in the what's more to sex. This is when we get into like tantra and Dao sexuality and some of the more esoteric practices around around sex. And so the curious stage is when we're really wanting to know all the how to we're wanting to get curious about ourselves, our partner know who we are. And that can maybe put us back into the put us say back, but they're not hierarchical and they aren't like in an order. And so that might put us into the healing stage, maybe we learn something about ourselves and go, you know what, I need to really look at that and, and go on a healing journey right now. Or maybe that's not just psyche emotional, but that's biochemical, I need to get some, you know, biohacking stuff so that I can boost my libido or get my testosterone up or work with my hormones in such a way that my my drive goes up. So there, there's a, it's a, it's a big thing to look at, you know, what is my blueprint type? But also what is the state or stage that I'm in? Because an energetic who's adventurous is very different from an energetic who's resting

Melanie Avalon:
Do people tend to get stuck in any one of the stages more than the others?

Jaiya:
Yeah, I find that a lot of times, we can get stuck in any stage, you know, it's like, we want these to flow, they're like states of consciousness. We don't want to get necessarily stuck in any one of them. And so sometimes we need to recognize first that we're stuck there. And like curious, for example, you can get stuck in just learning and learning and learning and never applying, never actually embodying the things that you're learning and taking what you've read in all the books. That's why my book has all these embodyates in it is because I want people to really take what they're learning and not just stay stuck and curious, but to move into actually embodying it and putting it into practice. And so any one of these can can become areas of stuckness, we really do want them to flow.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, actually to that point, because you talk in the book about how you can't have an experience, I'm paraphrasing, but basically the idea that you can't have an experience unless you've had an experience. My question is, is there a glass ceiling to the potential, say you're not dating, you don't have a romantic partner, you're single, is there a glass ceiling to the exploration and evolution you can make in your own sexuality where at some point you just have to have a partner to improve or I guess move beyond a certain point?

Jaiya:
No partner required, no partner required for any of this. We have our own eroticism and sexuality with ourselves. And you can absolutely have your own experiences, direct experiences, and your own erotic liberation with no one needed to have that experience at all.

Melanie Avalon:
I just have to ask. I'm just, I'm so curious. Speaking of curiosity, you talk in the book, you had an erotic relationship with a gay lover? Yes. I told my sister that. I was like, I was like, this woman. So I'm wondering, the reason I'm asking about it, because that just really like, really opened my mind. I was like, well, I'm looking at things, you know, clearly I have, I've siloed different types of people into certain things in my mind. Can you just elaborate on that? Like, like, so what is the potential there of people's sexuality and how they identify as being like gay or, you know, bisexual or lesbian or straight, but then they can also not be that I'm just, can you elaborate a little bit? Yeah.

Jaiya:
One of my favorite theories on orientation and gender is called sexual configurations theory I highly recommend people look this up and I think this comes to a lot it comes down to identity and how we Identify and and how we identify based upon our gender our orientation and our blueprint You know all of these things start to make up this map of who we are erotically And then there's sometimes just things that come along in life that are anomalies You know, we were talking about our early sexual awakenings and it was 20 years ago that I met my lover who is identifies as a gay man and is in love with me and we have a incredibly erotic experience together and When we first bumped into each other we met in college and when we first bumped into each other I didn't have the blueprints. I didn't have this language of understanding and We had I had a very very big erotic awakening with him All he did was kiss my toe and the energy just shot through my body because we were very energetic We both dance in the energetic realm and the energy shot through my whole body and I went into a oneness a mystical unity Consciousness experience and he had the same I mean he was weeping on my chest and we were we were not even us anymore We were like a god and a goddess and he was like weeping on my chest about the whole collective feminine and what the masculine had Done to the feminine. I mean, it was like one of the most ecstatic experiences of both of our lives you know, we'll both talk about this experience as such a life -changing event and Then we went into 17 years of confusion We had no idea, you know how to reconcile the fact that he was gay and Yet we loved each other and yet, you know, we didn't meet in the sexual blueprint. So what did that mean? and then I had the erotic blueprints and it gave us a language and what's so beautiful is that we learn to love beyond orientation and there are actually quite a few people in these kinds of Relationships called a mixed orientation relationship where one person is gay or bisexual and the other person identifies as straight and what's so beautiful about so many of these relationships is this idea of learning to love beyond the orientation and We love each other deeply. We share we I just had an experience with him on my birthday Where I was like, oh my gosh This is a totally new technique and he had like the base of my skull and he was sticking his fingers like in the base Of my skull like he was fingering the base of my skull energetically and I could feel like almost like his fingers are like going into my brain like fingering my brain and I was just Like orgasming out of my head. I was like new technique you did So, you know, we have these again ecstatic highly energetic But as soon as we start to go to the sexual blueprint, you know things sort of short -circuit or I even frazz out I just like like my brain doesn't compute. We made out once recently and I was like, well, I don't know what's happening here But he loves me so he's willing to be in pleasure with me, you know, so it's like it's just it's again I love their relationship stands for this sort of idea of moving beyond identity and learning to love beyond orientation

Melanie Avalon:
So fascinating. And what I've, like, speaking of dreams, what I've been really fascinated by is, so, like, in my waking reality, I'm very straight. Like, I identify as very straight. I'll have dreams that are, I guess, lesbian dreams. But what's interesting about the dreams is it's just completely normal. Like, I'm not, it's just normal reality in my dreams. So, I've wondered, like, what are your thoughts on dreams? Like, do they show us our, you know, suppressed desires? Or, you know, yeah, what are your thoughts on dreams?

Jaiya:
Couple of thoughts. I think one, our brain is processing things that happened during the day. I mean, that's just like a simple, very rational mind. Like these things happen during the day, my brain's cleansing itself and kind of washing and going through random things that happened. And then I also think that our brain is processing, this is going to get super woo woo and energetic blue printed. But I think our brain is also processing other multiple realities. I think it's very everything everywhere all at once. If anyone's seen that movie, everything everywhere all at once, where there are multiple versions of us and we're visiting other realities of ourselves and other versions of ourselves that made different choices in life. Like I have a recurring dream that I live in New York City and this big high rise and I'm super fancy. Like I have it all the time. And, you know, I have these other realities that I visit. There's also lucid dreaming. And that's like being awake inside of the dream. And what is the dream there to tell us what if we have different relationships with our dreams, I really actually think that they can teach us things as well and be be teachers to us. And then when it comes to eroticism, I mean, it's a place where we're free to dream any dream. And I think what's important on the other side is how are we integrating and making impactful meaning from the dream that we've had.

Melanie Avalon:
going back to this idea of the feminine and the masculine and all these different types. And I preface this question by saying I don't want people to assume they need to be a certain way or normal, but I'm just curious in all of the data that you have on all these people taking your quiz, do you see like, are there certain types that are more certain profiles that are more common in certain types of people?

Jaiya:
Yeah, so I think that there's a couple different things here to talk about there's energies, which there's masculine and feminine energies and ways of expressing and like yin and yang and polarity. And then there's gender and how we identify and gender. And in our quiz, you can mark what gender you identify with. And what I think is fascinating is that cis gendered heterosexual men, which means that they identify as the gender that they were assigned at birth, they are not all sexual across the board, they actually, which I think is the stereotype, like, oh, men are sexual, they actually are all the blueprint types almost equally, which I find really, really fascinating. I think we underestimate men erotically. And then for cisgendered heterosexual women, meaning those women who were born who are assigned at birth as women, they are mostly sensual and energetic. So that's usually what comes up. And then when we get into like transgender, then we see more like kinky and sexual blueprints.

Melanie Avalon:
That's really, that's really interesting about the men. I would not expect that. And it's also interesting because that's what, you know, presented with me with being primarily sensual and energetic. So question I had about my results, because after, you know, reading more about the types, and I don't want to make blanket assumptions, but a theme I was picking up on is that the sexual, for example, can I don't want to, I don't want to use the word like selfish, but that they can, you know, there could be a toxic manifestation where it's all about their own sexual needs. And then on the flip side, we have the shapeshifter who, you know, can adapt and, you know, meet all of the different needs in a way. So my question is, I took the quiz and I got, you know, 5 .5% shapeshifter, so very, very small. So does that mean I'm selfish? Your sexual was zero, right? My sexual was also zero, but my shapeshifter was very low as well. So does that mean I'm not adapting to other people? No.

Jaiya:
I mean, it can't if you get really stuck in like, your blueprint again, because our blueprints show us where we're limited. I think there's that growth of expanding and no one has to expand. I don't want to hear anyone to hear this and be like, Oh my god, I'm broken, or I'm not normal. Or, you know, I don't have my full sexuality online. I think that we can do a lot of non self acceptance in sexuality, like my friends having this and I'm not having that in comparison. And so I feel like there's a piece a place for accepting where right where you are, and loving yourself right where you are. And then getting curious about, well, where can I expand, where can I become more full spectrum, if you want to, like you don't have to have like screaming, squirting, crazy orgasms that take you into multiple dimensions. But if you're interested in that, then there's a pathway for you to go on that journey.

Melanie Avalon:
I wish I could go back and have taken this quiz like pre my quote sexual awakening moment and then now and then in the future and see how the things have changed.

Jaiya:
I know so many people say that I wish I could go back in time or I wish I had had this when I was younger, I hear that a lot. And I wish that for myself, I mean, as erotically awakened as I was at a young age, I mean, if I had had more language and more education around consent, I mean, there's a lot of things that I think would have changed in my sexual life had I been able to have the wisdom that I have now. But maybe that's just something that comes with life experience and with age immaturity is that, but yet I hope that we can maybe shift that culturally so that our young people are more equipped.

Melanie Avalon:
I also, it's interesting because I spoke about my upbringing in the beginning and it's interesting to me because I actually don't, I don't really resent any of it and I know it came from like a place of love and I know my mom had her own sexual trauma, so I think that's where a lot of that came from and I'm also really curious. I'd be curious how much of this transmits, like sexual trauma of a parent, for example, how much of that transmits to the child just, you know, genetically or epigenetically. I would imagine it does, you know, a lot that I've had like Wim Hof on the show and he was talking about, you know, the generations of stress and how it can transfer, but we don't really talk about like the sexual aspect of that much.

Jaiya:
Yeah, I mean, generational trauma is seven to 14 generations that that information is passed down through from what recent research is showing. And that's that's fascinating to me. So like, how much of it is my own decision? And how much of it is like, there has been some information genetic information passed down that says don't do that. That's dangerous. That's harmful. And how is that affecting blueprint? And there's sometimes in sexuality, it's like this rabbit hole where there are more questions than answers. And it's definitely a place where I think we need a lot more research. But with sexual trauma, you know, I have people who have like, fears that they don't even know where they came from, there's no event that they can remember in their life. And then we start to take them into an expanded state of consciousness. And they start to experience something in the transpersonal realm. You know, in the transpersonal is like, maybe they experience something from another lifetime, or they go into a just a very different state where maybe a guide or something comes and talks to them. And they get information that links to maybe a generational trauma or something something like that we don't always know. And and I think being open to these experiences can help us with our healing because it can be generational.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, and speaking of, you know, not knowing and all of this, if you could create, if you had like unlimited resources for this and could create some sort of study looking at this, what type of study would you like to create?

Jaiya:
Oh my gosh, so many. I mean, I think one study that I would be really fascinated by right now, you know, we're in the psychedelic renaissance. And I would be really fascinated to see a study that's really focused on sexual trauma and generational trauma and somatics, embodied, you know, somatic healing with the combination of psychedelics for healing sexual trauma. That's an area where I have a lot of fascination. And if I had the funds to do it, that would be a study that I would do.

Melanie Avalon:
Can people doing this, well A, should they approach any of this work to address their trauma, or can they just let it happen naturally, or should they be really careful if they have trauma when they're approaching all of this?

Jaiya:
Yeah, I think if you know consciously that you have trauma, go slow, you know, if it triggers your nervous system, back off, there's no there's, there's no rush, we have our lifetime to explore these things. And then the other thing I would say is work with a really qualified trauma therapist, just a personal reference here, I grew up with a severe amount of trauma. One of my therapists told me that I would never heal because I was in the top 1% of trauma, I was diagnosed with CPTSD. And the the journey of one having support having the right people around you who can who really understand trauma like a good trauma therapist, and also knowing that it is possible to heal, I think that I think that anything is possible. And sometimes our our trauma leads us to our greatest awakening. And I know that was the case for me. I'm also very lucky. I'm also very graced and also very privileged to be able to afford having support and having these different modalities to work with. And I think it's important to talk to your partner, too. I know people who have had really intense sexual trauma, and they don't want to tell their partners, and then their partners just don't understand, well, why are you why are you behaving this way? Our trauma spills into our relationships. I know it did in mine, there was a period of time where my primary partner I you know, I just projected onto him as he was the abuser, he's nowhere near an abuser. But it was my own psyche just seeing if anybody's red body keeps the score, there was something in there that shocked me where there's a picture of like a kid and they're working with their father on a car and a kid who has trauma will see like the car is about to drop on the father, the kid's going to hit the father with a wrench. But a kid without trauma sees just what the picture is. And so how our brains are filtering everything when we have trauma, I think it's, it's worth really it is worth going on the trauma healing, because that is affecting you and affecting you and your subconscious, but go gentle and go slow and find qualified practitioners to help you through that.

Melanie Avalon:
Have you found people, when they address their trauma, or if they do and or engage with psychedelics and such, that that changes their type? It can!

Jaiya:
You know, I've seen people become a lot more energetic and sensual because they suddenly have access to fields they didn't before, you know, like a partner who might be super sexual on their typing, on their quiz, you know, like zero energetic, suddenly will have access to energetic because they just experienced the energetic field or they had a mystical experience and those new neural nets are now open and they start to have more access, yeah.

Melanie Avalon:
And then so for listeners, you know, hearing about this. So I think that they have an understanding now about all the information that they'll learn in the book. But I will say the book has so many practical, implementable exercises and journal quickies and things that you can do. And so I just want to give listeners, no pun intended, like a taste of that, all of the different exercises that you have come up with. How do you come up with them?

Jaiya:
of my sex life is my laboratory where like, just like I was talking about my, my, my gay lover, you know, he does something and I'm like, Oh my God, that's like, great. Like, let's unravel that and teach that as a technique or my, you know, my primary lover, he'll do something I'd be like, what are you doing? You know, a lot of times they joke, like, just relax, just stop, like making techniques up. And then, and then sometimes the techniques come from clients, you know, there's a problem that I've never seen or a challenge that they're having. And I make something up unique for them for their unique thing. And then I start to apply that to other people and see that it's something that's actually effective and works. I really see my, my own life is my laboratory. And then the work that I do with my clients is also a laboratory that a lot of things come out for the greater good.

Melanie Avalon:
Is there a crowd favorite exercise, or A, is there a favorite, and is there one that you think most people could really all start with or benefit from that they could learn more about in the book?

Jaiya:
Yeah, I think that one of the most effective ones is actually a communication tool and it's dyads. I have a lot of them in the book and they're just a simple prompt. You choose a prompt like, tell me something that turns you on. And I think what's important about the dyad is that it gives us a way of understanding. We don't have to agree with each other, but we can understand each other and it's not a conversation. It's an effective communication. And so the dyad process of, you know, if you just take something as easy, like I said, of tell me something that turns you on, you're seeking to understand your partner and get to know them and have them feel heard and seen. And it gives, we just go back and forth with the same prompt. Tell me something that turns you on. And if you understand, you say thank you. Tell me something that turns you on and you go back and forth. And I think it's great, great, great foreplay, but you can do this with anything. You can do this with any, any prompt, anything you want to know about each other, any place that you're struggling. Tell me something you want me to understand about you and XYZ thing that you're struggling with. I can come up with prompts all day long. I really, I really love those as just, I just think it connects us and it makes us, it makes us have a level of intimacy that is much deeper and it breeds that curiosity that breeds more intimacy.

Melanie Avalon:
I love that, and I also love just speaking of all the potential of everything. You talk near the end about the potential of blueprintifying quote tips and techniques, and you talk about how the majority of the sex tips and things and magazines, and do we still have magazines? I guess we do, we do, we do. But they're typically fall into the sexual type. So can people really, how can they blueprintify things in their life? Yeah.

Jaiya:
I love blueprintification, it's a mouthful, but it's just take anything that you're doing, even as simple as like, I have this water glass on my desk and I can think about blueprintifying the way that I'm drinking my water, which could be, this could be applied to any sex tip. And so if I blueprintify it and it's energetic, I'm just gonna like hold the glass to my lips and not let myself take a little drink. I mean, maybe I'm getting a little kinky if I don't let myself take a drink, but I'm gonna tease myself with this idea of taking a drink of water and just doing that, I can already notice a response in my body. My mouth starts to water, you know, like there's this like, oh, I really wanna, I get little chill bumps on my arms. If I'm sensual, then maybe I'm going to see if the water has a smell or I might hold the water glass up to the light and see how the light is reflecting off of the water. Maybe I bring it to my lips to just feel the wetness. I'm gonna just bring it to my lips and feel the wetness. Mm, maybe give it a little moan. And then as I swallow, that's sexual. I'm just gonna swallow a drink of water. And if I'm gonna make it kinky, I'm gonna put the water back down on my desk and not let myself take a drink at all. And then the shapeshifter would be combining all that together.

Melanie Avalon:
And that made me think, the world of ASMR, is that one of the types specifically?

Jaiya:
I think that could be very sensual or energetic for sure.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, okay.

Jaiya:
And then it can get a little naughty and kinky and no depending on the.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, you narrated the book. Yes. Yes. Oh, it was so much fun. I love it when authors read their own book. I just feel like it adds so much. And what was your experience like doing that?

Jaiya:
Yeah, I had the most fun going into studio and it's just like to tell the stories and be, you know, in the studio and then the people who were there. Nobody had read it at this point, except for my editor. And so the people who were there, like seeing their feedback and like watching how they were responding to the content and then I, yeah, and then just getting to do the exercises because I know like, okay, my, my, my voice is going to be in everybody's ear and my energetic lover is a voice coach. And so he always says that we vibrate each other, that we make love with each other with the vibration of our voices. So I think like, oh, wow, people are going to be hearing my voice and that vibrational frequency of the content and being able to follow along with it. I just felt like I was like making love to everyone through it.

Melanie Avalon:
That's amazing. So if you had to choose the way that everybody consumed it, would you want them to consume the audiobook for that experience?

Jaiya:
Oh, it's so hard because it depends on how what kind of a learner you are. You know, the audiobook is definitely my favorite. But, you know, if you need to see like things written out, then I love having a hard copy of a book. And sometimes even I'll like listen to the book and have the hard copy so that I can underline certain things as I'm hearing them. You know, I'm I'm a multifaceted learner that way. But and I'm also a very like I see something and I remember it. So I need to see it written. So it really depends on what kind of learner you are, I think.

Melanie Avalon:
Were you heavily involved in the design of the physical book, the cover and everything?

Jaiya:
That was the editor. The editor really chose the cover and my partner Ian, he's much more of the artist. So he was part of helping with all of the more of the layout and the design. But yeah, the editor did most of that.

Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. I'm always just really curious about, you know, the creative decisions and what people are trying to communicate there.

Jaiya:
And they picked a certain artist, like some kind of erotic artist. I can't remember what their name was, but that was interesting because this is one of their art prints that's on the cover for the US book. The UK book has a different cover.

Melanie Avalon:
Did you have to censor or change anything for the UK version?

Jaiya:
No, the UK version was more lenient than the US version.

Melanie Avalon:
People get the UK version for like...

Jaiya:
Yeah, yeah, there's more content in the UK book and a little bit more, especially the blueprint compatibility chapter. And so, and there was a lot, there's always this so interesting writing a book because there's always so much content that gets edited out and gets cut. I find that the hardest part of a book is cutting things that I really love or needing to rewrite chapters. Like it's like, oh, this is gonna be such a painful process, especially you can't just, you just can't get attached to anything.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm dying to know. Was there anything that you really wanted in there that they just thought was too much?

Jaiya:
Yeah, there was a there's a there's a chapter in the book and there's a segment in the chapter called The Chess Game. And to me, it's the whole point of the book. So when people read it, it's like that that really is the point of where this book is leading. And that got cut significantly. And so I was a little bit bummed that that was a section that really got cut down. I think people just they were afraid. I think that people just wouldn't understand it, that it was too poetic or too, you know, esoteric in its in its writing. So it got kind of cut down and simplified.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, well, yeah, I really enjoyed that chapter. And it, it was so freeing to, you know, see yourself as this chess game. And like, who are the players and, you know, what else affecting you and then realizing that you can change your role and, and then you have your, your riddle moment at the end. I don't know if I should give it away or have listeners.

Jaiya:
I love that you read this book. I can't tell you how many people interview me and they haven't even read the book at all and have no idea. So you like really read it. You really know it even that I can just talk about the chess game section and that you know what I'm talking about is amazing.

Melanie Avalon:
No, I love it. And like I said, I was so, so excited because I already had done the quiz. I was already really interested in your work. So when I heard you had a book, I was like, yes. I get to like actually, you know, dive deep, deep, deep into all of this. So I really can't thank you enough. Yeah, so I'll leave the riddle as a teaser. You'll have to read the book. I love that open loops. Yes, but you know, thank you so much Jaya, like for your time, for what you're doing. I think it's just changing people's lives and it's just so needed. I really, really can't thank you enough. What are you doing now? Like what, I know like having a book can feel like a lot energetically. Are you actively writing another book? I know you have your communities people can join. I know you have the Netflix series that you did. So where are you at now? Yeah.

Jaiya:
I really feel like between the Netflix series and if you haven't seen it Sex, Love and Goop, I'm so proud of that show. I really feel like that was like a quintessential turning point in my career where I felt like, wow, I did it. I opened the portal, I left the legacy, and then all I needed was a book and then I will feel complete. And so I feel really complete in my Dharma. I've hit this point where it's like, wow, I do have that feeling like I did it. I left a legacy. We have these coaches, the blueprints are out there, people are talking about them. There's the book and the TV show. It's so great. And so I'm in the questioning now of what's next. I do have some books I'm working on, all these little top secret projects I was fiddling with and I'm in a very introspective place of – and I had a big spiritual experience that happened to me over the summer where I went into a mystical experience spontaneously that lasted for 30 days. And that has really changed my life. It didn't happen through eroticism, it didn't happen through breathwork, it didn't happen through psychedelics. I was sitting in a cafe in Paris and I have been trying to understand and integrate that experience ever since it happened and that was seven months ago. And so I feel like there is something coming and I'm not sure what that is. I think there's always been for me a natural leadership but I think that there may be a time to kind of go in and see what's next and I'm excited for whatever that is and I hope it's for the greatest good of this planet.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, that's amazing. I'm so happy for you. And what I really love hearing, I think we're often told in society that we have these goals and dreams, but that we're always chasing happiness and that nothing will ever make us feel good. But in my experience, and it sounds like talking to you, I think it's wonderful to have these things you want to pursue in life and then achieving them. And just, I think it feels really great. And then it's like, what's next? And just as a little quick anecdote, so I'm currently developing a dating app actually, appropriately enough. I'll have to tell you on the flip side that the hook of it because it's kind of funny how it relates to our conversation. But the other day, so I'm on it. Now I'm on dating apps all the time, because I'm researching. And I saw a profile the other day and he under like his about section, he put erotic blueprint as like an identifying label for him.

Jaiya:
Yeah, my partner and I are always talking about these dating apps should really hook up with us because it would be like such a great thing that everybody had like their erotic blueprint on their app so that and I'm so we're seeing it more and more where people are listing that in their app and it's it's like a little code word.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it's like it's like a code.

Jaiya:
somebody who's like really done their work around their eroticism.

Melanie Avalon:
I love it. I wanted to like connect with him and be like, I'm interviewing her and this is amazing. But I also don't want to... I found since I'm there primarily to research, I don't want to like just be connecting with people because I think they can get a little bit upset that I'm not there to date. I'm just there collecting data. But I definitely took a screenshot and I was like, I will share this with you. So yeah. Thank you. So how can listeners follow your work, get your book, all the things?

Jaiya:
Yeah, so the book is available anywhere that books are sold pretty much. And right now it's only an English language. I'm hoping that that will get translated. Usually my books do get translated into a couple of different languages. So I'm hoping that that's down the pipeline. So look for that. But it pretty much anywhere in the UK, Australia, and English speaking countries, we have the book there. My website is jaya dot love, L O V E. And then you can also take the quiz at eroticbreakthrough .com. I'm sure you'll put all that stuff in the show notes, but people can find all of that there.

Melanie Avalon:
Perfect. I didn't know you could do dot love. That's amazing the last question. It's very easy short I just ask every guest on the show this because I realize more and more each day how important mindset is So what is something that you're grateful for? I am grateful

Jaiya:
This is going to be so interesting. I am grateful that I no longer need to have anything to be grateful for to just live in gratitude.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, that is profound. I love that. I knew there'd be an amazing answer there.

Jaiya:
that I just get to be in gratitude.

Melanie Avalon:
That's amazing well thank you i am like i said so so grateful for your work it's been so eye -opening for me i you know i just wanna share with everybody make everybody take the quiz and i'll be eagerly watching all that you do and hopefully we can talk again in the future.

Jaiya:
Thank you so much, it's been such a pleasure and I'm so grateful to have the conversation with you. It's so lovely to meet you. You too.