The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode # - Dr. Dana Cohen
Dana G. Cohen, MD has been practicing integrative medicine for the last 20 years. She is currently the Medical Director of Complete Wellness, a 10,000-square foot integrated medical/wellness facility in the heart of Manhattan. She is a nationally renowned internal and integrative medicine specialist whose multi-disciplinary approach has helped treat thousands of patients using a variety of conventional and complementary therapies. In practice for nearly two decades, Cohen trained under the late Dr. Robert Atkins, author of the iconic “Dr. Atkins’ New Diet Revolution,” and Dr. Ronald L. Hoffman, a pioneer of integrative medicine and founder of the Hoffman Center in New York City.
Cohen was certified by the American Board of Internal Medicine in 1998, and was appointed to the Board of Directors of the American College for the Advancement of Medicine (ACAM), the leading voice of integrative medicine, where she currently serves as advisor to the Board of Directors and advisor to the education committee. Through ACAM, she also developed an integrative medicine boot camp for practitioners and developed their first webinar based chelation therapy workshop. In addition, she is on the Scientific Advisory Board of the Organic and Natural Health Association.
Cohen’s passion for integrative medicine stems from her belief that medicine is an art, and a patient-centered, holistic approach is the vital first step on the path to overall health and wellness. She has helped thousands of patients, on the verge of giving up hope, find relief by restoring their well-being. Cohen’s practice emphasizes the individual, and she has helped countless patients limit their dependence on prescription medications by harnessing the power of diet, nutritional supplementation and lifestyle changes to find wellness.
Cohen earned her medical degree from St. George’s University School of Medicine and completed a three-year internal medicine residency at Albany Medical Center and was board-certified by the American Board of Internal Medicine in 1998. She has on-air experience as a radio host and previously co-hosted, “Healthy for Good,” radio show that aired in New York City and “New Vitality Live,” a nationally syndicated show on WOR Radio Network.
She has co-authored QUENCH: Beat Fatigue, Drop Weight, and Heal Your Body Through the New Science of Optimum Hydration (Hachette Books) with cultural anthropologist Gina Bria.
LEARN MORE AT:
@drdanacohen-instagram and twitter
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6:15 - Training With Dr. Atkins
9:30 - Dehydration On Low Carb Diets And How Much To Drink Per Day
11:20 - The Role Of Fiber, And Long Term Low Carb
13:15 - Realizing The Importance Of Hydration And Movement
16:35 - The Different Types Of Water Vs. Structured Water - The Work Of Dr. Pollack
19:00 - Gel Water: The Fourth Type Of Water
20:15 - Hydrogen Vs. Structured Water Vs. Alkaline Water
23:30 - What Are the Functions Of Water In The Body?
25:00 - What Regulates Water Retention In The Body?
26:00 - The Roll of Sodium In Water Retention
27:00 - The Toxic Factor Of Our Environments
29:15 - How Intuitive Is Thirst?
30:00 - The Role Of Infrared Saunas In Hydration
31:20 - Sunlighten: Get $200 Off Any Sunlighten Cabin Model Or $100 Off The Solo Unit (That Melanie Has!) AND $99 Shipping (Regularly $598) With The Code MelanieAvalon At MelanieAvalon.Com/Sunlighten! Forward Your Proof Of Purchase To Podcast@MelanieAvalon.Com, To Receive A Signed Copy Of What When Wine!
34:00 - Hydration and Burning Calories
35:10 - The Role Of Fascia In Hydration
36:15 - The Discovery Of Fascia
37:45 - The Role Of Lymph And Movement
38:40 - Micromovements To Support The Fascia
42:30 - Hydrating Vs. Dehydrating Foods - Alcohol, Coffee, and Others!
44:00 - TCM, Acupuncture, And Hydration
44:55 - Dietary Fats And Hydration
47:55 - MCTs
49:40 - INSIDE TRACKER: Go To InsideTracker.Com And Use The Coupon Code MELANIE30 For 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!
49:50 - Low Carb Vs Low Fat And Hydration, Juice Cleanses
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54:25 - How Much Water Should You Drink Per Day? Is It Affected By Food Choices?
56:40 - Grinding And Blending Foods And The Role Of Fiber
1:00:20 - Hydrating Foods
1:02:45 - BiOptimizers: A company whose mission is to fix your digestion! Get A FREE Bottle Of Their Anti-Viral Probiotic P3OM At www.p3om.com/melaniefree
Linda Prout: Traditional Chinese Medicine From A Western Perspective, Learn Your Constitution, Balance Your Body, Food Qualities and Properties, The Five Elements, Cooling And Heating Foods, Raw Fruits And Veggies, And More!
1:03:15 - Beauty Water
1:06:15 - Chelation Therapy For Heavy Metal Toxicity
1:11:30 - Pairing Movement With Memory
Melanie Avalon: Hi friends. Welcome back to the show. So, I am super excited to be here today with Dr. Dana Cohen. She has a fascinating book that she coauthored. It's called Quench: Beat Fatigue, Drop Weight, And Heal Your Body Through The New Science Of Optimum Hydration. Friends, this book is actually fascinating because it taps into two factors that, after reading the book, I've realized radically affect energy levels in our body and our health and there are two things that I think a lot of people don't often realize and that is hydration as well as, Asha?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Fascia. Yeah,
Melanie Avalon: Fascia, fascia and fascia, which relates to movement. So, lots of really fascinating topics here. The book is absolutely fascinating. Dana, thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Well, thank you for having me.
Melanie Avalon: You have a very impressive resume. So, for listeners, Dr. Cohen, she was certified by The American Board of Internal Medicine. She was appointed to the Board of Directors of The American College for Advancement in Medicine, which is the leading voice of Integrative Medicine. She's been practicing integrative medicine for the last 20 years and is actually currently the medical director of Complete Wellness and I am fascinated to learn you actually trained with Dr. Robert Atkins.
Dr. Dana Cohen: I did. This was literally right out of residency. My first job was with Dr. Atkins at the Atkins Center here in New York city and he changed my life. I thank God for him.
Melanie Avalon: What was that like? Any quick stories or anything?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Sure, yeah. So, it was funny because when about six months, for when you're finishing up residency, about six months before is when you start to think about jobs and what are you going to do and the truth be told, I was miserable. Here I am probably $200,000 in debt, can't change what I've just spent three years of my internal medicine residency, primary care because I had to work at this point and just not loving it. So, I'm looking for jobs and I found an ad in the New York times that said world renowned wellness center looking for a doctor and it was in New York city. I was like, Oh, that sounds really cool. I'm thinking it's going to be some spa or something. I called and it was a head Hunter and she's like, well, it's for Dr. Atkins.
The crazy thing was I was doing the Atkins diet at the time and me and a couple of my girlfriends, other residents were doing it. I remember us carrying pepperoni and cheese in our pockets and I never felt better, I felt incredible. My energy was amazing. I could go 24, 36 hours in the ICU and be fine, feel feeling great. So, I went for the interview and I knew nothing about integrative medicine and I met with him and he was incredibly charming and funny and brilliant. I got the job. I took the job. The first six months that I was there, I fought him on everything. I fought him. I was like, what is this? What are you talking about, this vitamin C? He'd be having an IV room that was bigger than my apartment in New York city, and I was like, what are you doing with this vitamin C? I remember he sent me downstairs and he's like, go talk to those people, spend the afternoon. I want you to interview every single one of those patients sitting in the chairs.
I'd go down there and this person in this chair was diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer given six months to live 10 years ago,? That same story I kept hearing over and over again and I was like, wow, like this was incredible. So, he really taught me. He taught me the importance of nutrition and diet and specifically low carb dieting and I saw miracles on a daily basis just from people changing their diet.
Melanie Avalon: That is absolutely incredible. Actually it's, I mean, it's super appropriate because Atkins is what integrated me into the whole holistic health world. I think so many people do find their way into that world because they initially go super low carb and see such radical changes that's often due to Dr. Atkins. So, that's incredible. Then I add such context because in your book, which we can be talking about more, I mean the plan is obviously not automatically super low carb or anything. So, I'm really excited now or when we continue talking to explore the role of hydration and how that comes into play and the role of carbs because I feel like that adds a whole another layer. Something I could even ask you right now, how often do you think, on low carb diets for example, that dehydration is actually a significant problem? Especially when people seemingly are experiencing great energy and health changes at the beginning like you did and like I did.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a great question because it's a known thing that when you go on a low carb diet, it's actually a diuretic. So, people notice, especially in the first couple of days, you're peeing all the time. So, it is a powerful diuretic and you have to make up for that loss. I think, this is not, unfortunate with all of this stuff, everything that we're going to, everything nutrition-wise we're going to talk about there's no study that says, oh, this is exactly what you should do. With the medication you take this one pill and it changes this. This is nutrition and there's so many factors and everything that goes on. But going back to what I was going to say, is that, with hydration, the thought is that you're supposed to drink half your weight in ounces. If I had to give you a number of -which I don't like to do cause we're all different sizes, we're all different shapes, we all sweat differently. So, but if I had to give you a number, the best thing to follow is drink half your weight in ounces, right? A lot of people have heard that now with a low carb diet or a ketogenic diet, you're supposed to drink at least 75% your weight in ounces a day.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's incredible. I mean that's such a big number and I'm just so, intrigued by, like I said at the beginning how people do experience such radical energy shifts and things like that. But I wonder if there are underlying problems that might not be addressed especially people are on these long-term, especially with things like the carnivore diet and I could go on all these rabbit holes.
Dr. Dana Cohen: I think it's important because I do think you talk about fiber in these carnivore diets, like there's no fiber. I do... I was on another person's podcast who we agreed to disagree, who is a proponent of the carnivore diet and says that there's really no studies that says that we need fiber. I just think from a physiological standpoint and even for our gut health, like to give our microbiome, feeding our microbiome with fiber, we do need some fiber. I do want to say about the Atkins diet and having now spent actually 22 years since I've been practicing for over 22 years now. It's very difficult to be on either a ketogenic diet or an Atkins diet long-term. I do think that there's something about cycling in and out. I've also changed my whole practice. I mean there is no such thing as one diet fits all and everybody's individualized. So, I hope people who are listening that you do have to find what fits for you, what works for you, what you know to be healthy. You need to be in your bodies and feel what feels right and what is right. Your body is that the wisest teacher literally.
Melanie Avalon: I love that so much. That is literally my, I mean, that's like my thesis in life. I shudder when people say that there's one right diet for everyone or that everybody needs to be doing this diet or doing this diet. I see why it happens. Because, people I think often will have health conditions where they're trying to lose weight or something and then they find a diet that does work for them and so they think that because it's so radically changed their life that it's automatically going to last forever. Which like you just said, there is something to be said for changing things up. And then also, they think it automatically applies to everybody else and I'm just like, no, we're all so unique. But that said, I'm sure there are health tenants that are involved. Your personal history though, what led you to your current fascination with hydration and movement and developing this book, which you coauthored with an anthropologist, which is definitely a very unique collaboration. So, I'd love to hear more about what brought you to that.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, So, actually I think if I had to do it all over, I would have done my undergrad in anthropology. It's actually... not that... I think most integrative doctors or physicians or healers, like we really look to our ancestors now about health ideas. I think it's so fascinating. What led me to hydration? Having worked for Dr. Atkins, I've always known I have to write a book. I just... you need a platform in this industry. It literally took me 15 years to find what I wanted to write on. I just... I do a lot of hormones in my practice. I do a ton of thyroid and I do a lot of gut health and I just couldn't figure out what angle those could take. I didn't want to write another book on hormones or thyroid. I couldn't quite figure out what that would look like. You have to go see your doctor and get blood tests.
Gina Bria, my coauthor called me one day. Actually, I think a patient had referred her, said, go talk to Dr. Cohen. I think you're going to really like her. Gina runs this thing called the Hydration Foundation and she studied how desert people hydrate and that was her thesis. She asked to speak to me about hydration. I remember, I've told this story quite a few times now, but I'm going to say it again cause it's funny. I remember thinking, Oh God, she's going to sell me some ionized water Ponzi scheme thing. But, I remember also the patient who referred her I really loved and I was like, sure, come on in, feeling a little generous, I gave her my lunch hour and she came and sat down in front of me and started telling me about the work of Dr. Gerald Pollack, who's the water researcher, very world renowned water researcher and about his discovery of this new kind or different phase of water. She sat there and she blew my mind. I had not heard of him before.
Then we started talking and she was telling me about stories about her mother was in a nursing home and who had had to be rushed to the hospital on many occasions for dehydration. Then she finally asked the nurses to put a little chia seeds in her morning orange juice and never again did she have to be rushed to the hospital because she was no longer dehydrated. And my mother also died in a nursing home from Alzheimer's, So, we had a lot in common. I just looked at her and I said, Gina, I said, This is going to affect so many people, do you want to write the book?” She looked at me, she didn't even think that's where we were going with it. She just wanted to get to talk and she said, “Oh my God, yes”. So, that was how it started. Then little did I know, we started to really delve into the research of water and hydration. I was shocked at how complicated this simple H2O molecule was. I was like, Oh my God, this is... I'm a clinician, I'm not a researcher, I'm not a scientist. I was like, what did I get myself into? But, we pulled it off and put it all together and I'm so proud of it. I think and I know the feedback that I've been getting is unbelievable positive and how it's changing people's lives and really putting to light that hydration is probably the single most important thing that we can do to treat and prevent chronic illness.
Melanie Avalon: That is a match made in heaven. You wanting to be an anthropologist and then that ultimate collaboration. I love that so much. So, I guess to start a foundation, I'm so excited you already brought up Dr. Pollack's work, which I had actually been doing research on and it wasn't until I read your book though, that I really saw more of the science behind that. So, I'm really excited to get into all of that. So, a basic question because I think a lot of people just think water is water, but, what are the different types of water and why is there a difference between “normal” water that we may be drinking every day versus the water found in plants and produce for example fruits and vegetables?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah. Okay. So, when you're talking about types of water, I'm assuming you're talking about the phases of water. So, everyone knows, we learned this very young, that water exists in three phases, liquid, ice and vapor. So, whether it's liquid, whether it's ice or whether it's paper, it's still H2O, right? What Dr. Pollack's work has showed us that there is a fourth phase of water. That phase of water, we call it gel water in the book, it's also known as structured water. He calls it EZ-water, which stands for Exclusionary Zone water. There's a lot of science behind that. But basically the way to describe it, it is how each of those H2O molecules, how they literally layer upon each other or how they structure and it is in that form.
So, in that structuring, they're sharing electrons, there's all kinds of electrical energy that's being supported by them and because of it, it actually takes on a different equation and it's H3O2 as opposed to H2O. That's the phase that's believed to be what's found in plants. Think about cactus plants, what Gina did her work on. If you ever open an aloe leaf, there's literally gel flowing out of it. If you look at, let me think, iceberg lettuce or how about cucumbers, there's a gel that surrounds that seed. Those are forms of structured water and it could be really thin. It doesn't have to always be so thick and gel like that is a different type of water. But, and it's our belief in what we talk about in the book is that, is in that form that exists within ourselves and that's the form that exists in nature.
Melanie Avalon: So, that gel, is it the actual fourth type of water in addition to some other material that's making it more jelly or is the entirety of the gel? This fourth phase?
Dr. Dana Cohen: It's the fourth type of water and then... that's a really good question. In the case of aloe, there's definitely other substances in there. I don't know what they are. Actually, I should know that. There's obviously some healing substances in there because we all use it on our cuts and stuff. But yeah, it is that fourth phase of water with other things. There are ways to make that water structured, like fiber. Fiber helps structure water. So, if you've ever taken a fiber supplement and put it in in water and mix it up, if you leave it there it becomes so thick and jelly like. So, for example in ourselves or in the human body adding electrolytes, so adding real salt or natural sea salt with all those minerals which are electrolytes can help structure water and there are things that we know that structure water, things like sunlight. There's actually been research and this is based on Pollack’s research, sunlight or UV light and all the different forms of UV lights. So, infrared, far infrared can increase the amount of gel water in our cells in our bodies.
Melanie Avalon: Is this structured water, is it different from like hydrogen water generators?
Dr. Dana Cohen: It is very different. I honestly don't know a lot about hydrogen water. I think that that science is still not quite there. I do think that there's going to be something to the hydrogen water but it is a different entity. Hydrogen water is basically a hydrogen gas that's infused into water. Whether or not it creates a little more structured water, it may, I don't know. It's a different thing as is like alkaline water is a different entity also. So, this is regular water that we drink and I have actually a really good example. Waterfalls, when you're in nature and there's all the waterfalls, that water is a little thicker than natural regular bulk water. It's, it's loaded with gel water that's structured water in there. So, it doesn't have to always be so jelly, like if that makes sense.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no. This is so fascinating. So, it's the oxygen that's different in this water.
Dr. Dana Cohen: It's not quite different. It has to do with the H2O molecule. When they are side-by-side, there's tons of them in this water and how they literally lay upon each other. When they do, there's these oxygen molecules and the charges then structure the water in a way that those electrons are being shared. So, that becomes a little bit of a different equation H3O2. This is theoretical by the way. It's not a hundred percent proven the actual molecule H3O2 but that's the belief and that is the one that makes the most sense too when you start to look at the research.
Melanie Avalon: Okay. So, I think I understand better now. So, it's like what you're saying at the beginning, the forms of water gas, liquid. So, it's how the actual water is structured, which is why it would be called structured water.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The how they layer upon each other. How these cells just literally line up together and whether they are hexagonal in these shapes and forms. So, with ice, I don’t know, and this, once again, I'm not a scientist in water, but like with ice it has to do with how fast those molecules are going are connecting to each other, I believe, something like that. But this is a whole new phase of water and its mind blowing. It was mind blowing to me that, this simple molecule that we learned about in elementary school that... or just when you think we know so much about medicine, there's something new that comes along that blows your mind that was always there that we just didn't know.
Melanie Avalon: So true. It's making me think maybe there's like 10 phases of water and we have no idea.
Dr. Dana Cohen: That was the thing too. When I look at the research, there are many scientists that agree that there's another phase of water. There's lots of research on that and there are scientists that don't agree with Dr. Pollack either, but yet they do agree that there is some other phase of water. By the way, water is the tiniest molecule in the world. It is so tiny. So, it's hard to very hard to study.
Melanie Avalon: So, I guess before we dive deeper into how structured water can benefit our health and hydration, going back to just water in general, which now I'm wondering what even is water in general, but going back to water in general, what are its critical functions in the body? I know you have like five critical functions in the book, but would you like to talk a little bit about that?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Sure. Functions of water. So, the first one that everybody really knows about is temperature regulation. So, we sweat so that we don't die from heat. So, we've got to get that. We produce sweat, we need water to sweat. So, it's a very important regulator of temperature. We know also, lubrication, lubricating joints. It's also a solvent. So, it's the major solvent in our body. It's what everything gets diluted in including our electrolytes and anything else that we put into our bodies has to be diluted. What else? It carries nutrients all over the body. Then the big thing, it's a cushioner. It protects us, right? So, you think about our brains, if we didn't have water, we would knock our brains against our skull and that wouldn’t have been good. But I think the biggest and most important thing is that we need hydration. We need water to create homeostasis in the body. I love that word. It's a really important word. Homeostasis is basically balance. It's the balance of fluids in and out of a cell and those electrolytes so that your cells are not bursting open. You're not getting so much edema in your legs or swelling in your legs. Proper hydration is the most important thing for homeostasis.
Melanie Avalon: Then, when things do fall out of balance and the homeostasis is disrupted, when there are signs of that, is that regulated? So, say somebody has a edema for example, and they have swelling in a certain localized area or they might just have water retention overall, is that a matter of the acute location in like the relation between intra and extracellular water or is it always regulated by the kidneys? For example? Like is there a master regulator in charge of fluid levels?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah. So, I mean, it's actually a complicated question because there are many causes of edema. So, you think about, yeah, kidneys is the master regulator of water. That's what water in and water out happens through the kidneys. But people with heart failure, you can get leg edema bilaterally. People with liver disease or cirrhosis gets edema as well. It's a difficult question to ask from an edema standpoint, but I think what may be more relatable to people is, so, people know when they eat too much sodium foods like sodium laid in foods, like, canned soups and those kinds of things. I want to just take a step back and realize I said sodium and I didn't say salt because those canned foods are just loaded with sodium and it's not, it's not the right balance of real natural salt. Right?
So, people know and they eat too much sodium in their diets, they can get a little swelling. I'm just trying to think what would be causes of mild edema. So, sodium, sitting too long, sitting on a plane for too long. Often my toes look like little sausages at the end of a long plane flight. So, that might be better, I think even those things though, I just want to also say that people who eat a little cleaner or who are maybe less toxic or a little healthier who are well-hydrated, those things don't happen to as often as somebody who is maybe very toxic loaded with... has a high toxic burden. Whether it be from environmental stuff or heavy metals, who knows what, they tend to get a little more swollen than somebody who is up and moving around and knows what it feels like to be properly hydrated. Does that make sense?
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no it does. And I'm assuming, So, the swelling related to toxins, would that just be the coping mechanism of the body trying to flush out those toxins with excess water?
Dr. Dana Cohen: That very well could be. Yeah, there's probably many reasons for it. Glyphosates and those kinds of things. You actually get cellular... your cells just don't function well at all. But, that's a very good, simple explanation and true explanation. Yeah. So, if you're working to flush out those toxins, you're going to dehydrate yourself. I mean, our environments are incredibly dehydrating. So, that's one of the things that's a big concept we have in the book. Our modern day environments are dehydrating us. So, we live indoors all day long, air conditioning and heat, I know, I'm in New York and only up until a few years ago did I not have those radiators in my apartment. They are the most... they suck every ounce of hydration out of the air so our environments are... our cell phones, we're putting this, our cell phones up to our faces and create... anything that's going to create heat is going to dehydrate us. Think about the foods that we eat, all this processed foods, let alone the sodium, just even the foods that our has to, then, in order to digest all of the process that it has to go through is dehydrating the medications that we're taking.
I have a list of medications that has been reported to the FDA as causing over-dehydration and that's requiring an emergency room visit and they're things that you would never even think about like aspirin or, proton pump inhibitors, the purple pill, those kinds of things. Things that you would never even think of. Like, how does that... we know that a diuretic is going to cause dehydration, but these are things that people are popping every single day. So, yeah, our environments are a mess.
Melanie Avalon: That's so scary. Then how intuitive is our sense of thirst? So, would a person know if they're dehydrated? There's this idea... they'll say that once you're thirsty, that means you're already dehydrated. What are your thoughts on that?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, yeah. Your thirst mechanism. So, first of all, we are very good at learning to override our thirst mechanism. So, especially like athletes or people who work, who are so driven, they ignore their thirst mechanisms. So, we learned, we can learn to override it, number one, but and as we get older, that mechanism gets, we lose that as well. Once you're thirsty, you're pretty far gone. You don't want to be thirsty. You want to nip that in the bud before it happens. That's, we talk a lot about that in the book. That's the way to do it. Before you get thirsty.
Melanie Avalon: Then I have a super random question just because you mentioned how he was dehydrating. You do talk a little bit about saunas in the book. I've heard, and I think you mentioned this in the book as well, that infrared sauna actually could be hydrating to the cells. Do you have thoughts on that?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, yeah. I mean it's... there's a fine line. So, if you're sweating, you're losing you're losing water. So, I mean, if you're going into sauna and you are sweating buckets, then you're, you're losing water. But infrared, according to Dr. Pollack's work and what we do believe too, that actually creates more gel water or structured water in your cells. So, that actually loads up yourselves with structured water, your cells are functioning better, it creates more energy. Those are the kind of structured water and these cells literally hold onto energy. They hold onto this electrical energy that we talked about. Remember I said those electrons, how they're shared, you're actually getting negative charge that's shared and within those cells they're also stored. So, you're actually storing energy. So, there's a fine line. It's hard to say that infrared saunas are hydrating when you're, you may be sweating a ton, but it also is at a cellular level increasing structured water or increasing cellular hydration.
Melanie Avalon: That makes sense. Then, I mean it's so interesting you're speaking about water and energy and I think we often think, oh water is zero calories. It's not even related to providing energy to the body. But that is something you discussed in the book. This idea that water actually can fuel ourselves. So, I think listeners might be a little bit surprised by that.
Dr. Dana Cohen: I was surprised by that actually. It does it in a couple different ways. One way I just told you. So, the structured water can store energy much like a battery can store energy. Some of the other things with hydration and these are theoretical but nonetheless fascinating and interesting the way that water literally gets moved through your cell that can create like hydraulic energy. So, you think about a waterfall. Waterfalls can, can literally give out energy, hydraulic energy, and, we can foster that energy. Same thing with water going in and out of cells, which I think is really fascinating. Then just the electrical energy of water is a real thing. That gets into that fascia talk a little bit that... let me take a step back. Let me just explain what fascia is because this is actually a really fascinating, interesting subject.
Fascia is this connective tissue that supports and surrounds every single cell, every single organ in our body. It's this network of collagen and fibers and this webbing that's all over. Without hydration that webbing obviously is ill and sick. But with hydration it's what moves electrical energy through the body, through that fascia. That's really all this new research that's going on about the electrical energy of hydration and water, let alone physical, the hydraulic energy and true energy that we're talking about, including like ATP and how our cells need water to make ATP, which is, we always thought ATP is made just by glucose.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I loved in the book the fascia, it was like this whole... cause I think people are drawn to the book and they think it's all going to be about hydration. But then there's this whole section on fascia and movement and I was surprised to learn that apparently when they would do autopsies and stuff, they didn't realize that it was an active system in the body until really recently. Right?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah. Fairly. Yeah. So, I mean when I was in 20, 25 years ago when I was in anatomy class, you would cut through the body and just get to the vessels or get to the organ and throw everything else aside. You never even looked at what this webbing was, what this... it was never studied. A couple of years back, this very brilliant, I think is a plastic surgeon, Dr. Guimberteau, actually people should, if you're interested, look up this YouTube video and I think it's called living fascia, I think it’s what it's called. He decided to put a camera under the skin, a microscopic candor under the skin of a living person and study fascia. When you look at it, so, first of all it's beautiful, but you see, you literally see water moving along, that it requires hydration and that that water, fascia moves water. So, it's not only blood and lymph that move water, fascia moves water. I love to say this because it really puts a good visual. We've always been told that we know we have to move our joints to lubricate them, but now we really understand why; Because fascia acts as a hydraulic pump. So, when you're, squeezing or you're making a muscle with your bicep in your arm, you're literally squeezing that fascia and water's getting, getting moved all over.
Melanie Avalon: For the lymph system, they often say that there's no pump that's moving lymph fluid through the lymph system, that's why you need to like physically move. Is that the same case with fascia?
Dr. Dana Cohen: That's a good question. I would, I think so. I think you, yeah, you need to move to... otherwise it's just going to sit there. So, sitting being sedentary, yeah, dries out your fat. I don't know if that's necessarily true. It doesn't dry it out, but the fluid on your fascia is not moving anywhere. So, yes, it does require movement in order for it to... I mean that it is a hydraulic pump. I think which is exactly that, a hydraulic pump, is literally the movement, the squeezing, that kind of thing. So, yes, we have to move. I wish I had a way out of it but I don't.
Melanie Avalon: It's so, funny. So, there's this whole section in the book talking about these different types of movements that you can use to support your fascia. You call them like micro movements and what's so funny is, in the book there's very specific like instructions you can follow to do them and it's these twisting and ringing a dish cloth and all these things. I started doing them like while reading the book, they are the exact weird random movements that I've been doing in life anyway and I thought it was just me. I was following the instructions, I was like, oh this is what I do all the time and I never knew why I was doing it. But now I do.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Once again, our body is so wise. Your body is so wise, you know better. If you just... people need to stop cutting themselves off from the head and feeling what's in your body and being a little more intuitive of what your body needs and wants. But yeah, micro movements are... they're so simple and they're nothing and you can make it up, like makeup, like making a fist as a micro movement of your fingers. But it's literally just moving joints, moving limbs in order to squeeze water. My favorite is just bobbing your head like yes, saying yes up and down, that's a micro movement you're getting fluid and you’re squeezing fluid into your brain and it's letting itself out.
So, yeah, micro movements are simple things that we... it's interesting, somebody... I'm trying to think who brought this up to me. I don't remember. I was saying something like we now have those cameras in the front of our cars where you don't have to even turn your neck anymore to back out of your driveway and now we can just look forward and that was a great micro movements. I prided myself on being able to completely turn my body around and look outside and see what's behind me and drive backwards. We don't do that anymore because we have these front cameras in the front of our car and then somebody brought up the whole idea of like, we don't even go to the grocery store anymore to walk from the parking lot into the grocery store or walk around the grocery store now with all of the delivery that we're having. So, once again, that's part of our environment. That's part of our lifestyle that's changing and we have to take note and figure out ways to move.
Melanie Avalon: No, it's so true. To that point, with all my podcasting and stuff, it typically requires a being at the computer a lot, a lot of desk work and I'm always trying to combat that. I think maybe, I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons I just naturally have been inclined to do a lot of these movements. But for the grocery store for example, I go to the grocery store every single day. I just need to do that and movement. That's why I do all these weird movements that are there in the book as well. So, for listeners, it's after reading the book you will feel so different about how you move your body. One of the things that I found so empowering was, I think people think to get benefit from movement, they have to do something like go do a really intense workout or do an exercise like that little movements don't count, but actually this paints the picture that, not that they're more important, but they're equally as important because that's what is keeping this fascia moving, keeping your body more hydrated, keeping things on a baseline level working. So, it's very empowering.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah. I do want to say though, it's not a substitute for exercise and I am by no means an exercise expert, but we still need to do some kind of exercise and meaning I couldn't tell you what is the best way to whether it's high intensity interval training or cardio or weightlifting, I don't know. But we need to move in addition to these micro-movements we still need to create some time for exercise, whether it be yoga or the gym and whatever it may be for you. It's in addition to your exercise
Melanie Avalon: 100% glad you couldn't definitely, good thing to clarify for sure. So, going to the hydration side of things, again, with actual foods that are hydrating or dehydrating, is any given food either hydrating or dehydrating? Like, is it automatically going to be one or the other?
Dr. Dana Cohen: No. I can tell you the one thing, I mean, the only thing that comes to mind, and there is no way around it, that the only thing that's really... and it's not a food that's dehydrating is as alcohol. Alcohol is absolutely dehydrating and it's... there's a place for it in this world, but it is not something if you're looking to become optically hydrated. I just can't... that's the only thing that's, it's physically dehydrating. The reason I say that is cause then people ask about coffee and that's always like typically the next question, am I jumping the gun? I don't know. The research on coffee shows that anything under four cups a day is not a diuretic. So, we allow a few cups of coffee a day if you want it. I just... I'm trying to think... I can't say a food out of context is hydrating or dehydrating. So, people say, well what about steak? Is steak dehydrating? Not necessarily. It just depends on what your... the whole picture of what you're putting in your body.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Speaking to that, one of the things I've been really fascinated by is traditional Chinese medicine and how they consider certain foods drying or damp or moistening and I've always wondered why, for example, they consider pork moistening, but all the other meats not that just haunted me.
Dr. Dana Cohen: That's a great question. I'm going to ask... I have an acupuncturist in my office. I'll ask him., I always say about acupuncture too and Chinese medicine, it is a study in and of itself. Whatever magic they do is incredible. Incredibly... what's the word? Especially like for people with hormone problems, it's such a great adjunct to what we do in Western medicine and I'm not a Chinese medicine and it is a very different way of looking at the body. So, I couldn't speak to it.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no, I'm a huge fan of acupuncture and one of the things you talked about in the book actually was that fascia actually responds to acupuncture so that there might be some connection just as far as the systems go in the body. So, I found that really fascinating. So, fats, dietary fats are specific dietary fats more or less hydrating than others? I feel like I hear different things. I hear that fats are key for lubrication and moisture. Then I hear no they’re... cause like fat and water...
Dr. Dana Cohen: Don't mix. It’s an oil.
Melanie Avalon: What's going on there?
Dr. Dana Cohen: My favorite subject, good and bad fats. I think if Dr. Atkins were still alive today he would have probably changed his, what he wrote about with, eat all the fat you want and don't worry about good and bad fats. He absolutely would because there's so much research out now about good healthy fats. So, once again, I can't tease out one single thing about fats to say, Oh it's hydrating or it's not hydrating but it's all about the big picture and what you're looking at in your diet. So, we talk a lot about healthy fats. The only thing in your... the biggest thing is you want to... if I had to give you one piece of advice, you want to stay away from trans fats. You want to get rid of those trans fats in your diet and then you want to really look at good healthy fats. We didn't even talk about, by the way, with meats and stuff, grass fed and organic and huge... there is so much research about those grass fed meats and the difference of what it does in your bodies and the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratios.
So, it's hard to say. Just going back to the question about fat, let me just take a step back and explain the physiology of it. The cells in our body have these channels or pores that literally let water into your cells and they're called aquaporins and those pores and the cells are lined with fat, right? That's what makes up our cell layer. If your cell layer is not healthy, your cells are not healthy. So, you have to eat the right fats. It's such a bigger talk of why heart health and that kind of thing, but I say we are done with fearing fat, but we should fear bad fats, meaning trans fats, hydrogenated fats. You can look for those on the labels. You want to stay away from them. You want to look at what creates hydrogenated fat in your foods. Those are things like maybe heating up your oils to too high a temperature. So, you want to cook with better cooking oils that don't create those trans fats when you heat them.
So, for example, olive oil, it's olive oil for an example. Olive oil, actually the good olive oil, like the extra Virgin olive oil actually has a lower smoke point than the light olive oil. So, meaning, when you heat it up, it creates hydrogenated fats at a lower temperature. So, if you're going to cook with olive oil, you actually want to get the cheaper olive oil, the light Virgin olive oil that doesn't create so many trans fats. Make sense?
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no, it does. What about something like MCTs for example? How might those affect the cells with hydration?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, So, Medium-chain triglycerides, it's also a very hard question to answer. So, I think it's more about balance in your diet. Looking at what we're doing. The MCTs, there's some... that's the fat that's in our brains. So, there's this whole idea of putting MCTs in our coffee and those kinds of things that really give us fuel for our brains. If you're doing ketosis or intermittent fasting, it's hard to tease them apart and say one thing about each separate thing. Is it hydrating? No, I don't know. But Medium-chain triglycerides are important for... so, like I just said, if you're doing a ketogenic diet and you want to give your... burn fat for fuel, especially in your brain, then you want to take some MCTs.
Melanie Avalon: Okay. Yeah. I was just wondering if there was anything with how they're shuttled throughout the body and since they require a different transport mechanisms and stuff, if that at all effects the hydration of cells.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure. I have to be honest, it's so... anything that maybe makes the body have to work a little bit harder maybe. But, I wouldn't, put that much mind to it. If you're eating good healthy fats, we can measure fats too in the body. That's one thing I do love to do in my practice. I always look at people's Omega-6, Omega-3, their parent Omega-3 is and make sure that you're in balance and that those numbers look good. So, there are testing you can do and actually I think you could even some of those that are mega testing, you could probably, there's lots of websites that you can even do your own or without a doctor's order. Like my labs.com or something like that.
Melanie Avalon: I'm so happy that that's becoming more of an option for people. I personally love inside tracker, they have amazing testing. Speaking to that, you were talking about low carb diets, things like that. So, low carb versus low fat diets and hydration. Do you think a person could follow either one and be hydrated or is one more likely to lead to dehydration? Would it more just depend on the... like you were talking about how if a cell is not functioning, that's where the problem is. So, maybe some people respond to a certain diet and their cells are functioning great. I don't know if that would correlate to better hydration. I'm just wondering if the low carb versus low fat realm getting in. There's also things like juice cleanses and stuff, which would obviously be low fat.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, So, I have to say first, just right off the bat, I don't believe in juice cleanses and I don't believe in low fat diets. Those are two things I don't believe in. I say not one diet fits all. I think in this day and age there's enough evidence out there that low fat diets are not the way to go in any way, shape or form. So, low, bad fat diets maybe is something, I don't know what that really means, but low fat diets, I just, that scares me. Juice cleanses, like those three-day juice cleanses, I don't think do anything. I don't think there's any reason to do a juice cleanse. You're getting all these sugar and carbs and there's nothing long-term from it. Maybe a little bit of gut rest from it because you're not, you're not processing anything. Maybe that might be a reason to do it.
So, I forgot what the question was. Oh, does a low ca- ... So, I think that answers the question because honestly I would never put somebody on a low fat diet. Now, a low calorie diet is something different, right. Low calorie is something that many people would do to lose weight versus maybe a low carb diet. I do think that a low carb diet, a very low carb diet like a ketogenic or an Atkins diet is more dehydrating, if that also, makes sense because of the diuretic effect of it. There's actually a physiological diuretic effect and you have to make sure that you are drinking enough water. I think on everything though, in everything that we talk about, you have to, that should be the number one thing that you think about.
Melanie Avalon: Probably. That's a great question. So, in a person's daily life, and they're looking to address this hydration question, how much water should they be drinking and would that also, be affected by the actual type of types of food and the diet that they're following? Like might a person need to drink less water from the bottle if they're having more hydrating foods or they still need a certain amount of water from the bottle?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah. So, great question. That is exactly what we try to teach people in the book. There is no one size fits all. I said it earlier today, but if you had to twist my arm, I would say to you, if you needed a number... we don't even talk about the eight glasses a day, which makes me so happy because I cause every podcast, that's the first thing that people talk about eight glasses a day, but it's not the way to go. Right? We know that now. So, if you had to twist my arm and I had to give you a number, I would say drink half your weight in ounces of water. So, think about that. Half your weight in ounces. If you weigh 200 pounds, a hundred ounces of water a day. But, even that, there is some interesting new research that's coming out that's not even in the book, that if we eat properly and eat hydrating foods, we may only need one glass of water a day.
So, what we try to teach you in the book is to know and find what that set point is for you. So, some of the things you want to look for is, we're meant to pee, get up and pee every two or three hours. So, if you're not getting up and peeing every two or three hours, you're not hydrating and you want to look at the color of your urine and you want it to be a straw, a pale yellow, or a straw colored. You want to be energized. If you do feel good, do you feel energetic? Are you, do you move fluidly? Do you have brain fog? Do you get headaches? Are you constipated? So, these are all the things that we teach you to look for and what it feels like to feel optimally hydrated. So, I can't say to somebody, you need to be drinking eight glasses of water a day. I don't know what that is for you. Are you eating really good, clean, healthy, organic food, lots of vegetables and, organic meats, fish, that kind of thing. So, it's a very diff-, I wish I had an answer but I don't.
Melanie Avalon: Well you do have the book. So, that's a helpful resource. Another question, something you talk about are the benefits of grinding and blending foods and how that can actually make the nutrients more available and support hydration. So, I have a very specific question about this. It is so random but I am a huge fan of cucumbers and I eat a lot of cucumbers. So, as far as the hydration goes, I used to eat them just like slices of cucumbers. But now I actually put them through a juicer and grind them in the juicer to make them, I mean it's what you're saying, it makes it more ground. But then I have this issue where I have the juice and the ground up pulp and, sorry this is so random, but I actually really, I'm wondering this question for like ever and there's nobody to and you're the person to ask. So, now I do that to make it more digestible cause I tend to have like IBS type issues. But now I'm in the situation where I have the pulp and the juice and I don't know if that's more or less hydrating to take it in and separate form. So, now basically I drink the juice and then I have the pulp, it's like a food, compared to having the cucumber is like one whole food. Do you think that would change how it's assimilated by the body?
Dr. Dana Cohen: One of the things in the book that we should talk about as the fiber is important. So, that pulp I think is important for fiber but, in your case there are people that can't tolerate it and it may be too much for you, for your digestive system, for whatever reason. I mean I would want to look for a root cause of why can't you tolerate and can you also not tolerate raw vegetables? Its like just drinking. So, there may be something underlying there, maybe something in your microbiome who knows? But, I do think that the pulp with the juice together is more hydrating than just the juice alone because it almost acts like a sponge. It holds onto that water. It sucks it in and honestly that is a clinical opinion. There's never been a research that will tell you anything like that. It's just doesn't exist. But that's what I believe in and I think that we talk about smoothies in the book. So, blending your greens versus juicing your greens, so, you're getting rid of the fiber and the pulp and just drinking the juice. I think the fiber and the pulp is very important for feeding your microbiome. Also, we know that we need that, that prebiotic fiber to help feed the microbiome that in turn gives us so many work sys-, even our blood sugar systems. So, I think it is important. But if it upsets your stomach then maybe just a little bit of that pulp in there.
Melanie Avalon: Well, the ironic thing is I still eat both the pulp and the juice. They're just separated now. I put it through the juicer to like pre-digest the cucumber to make it more digestion friendly. But I just wonder if in separating the fiber from the liquid, if that at all affects the hydration potential of the food when you eat it. I've done a lot of research on like soups versus taking in food where it's like not in soup form and how that actually affects nutrient assimilation and gastric emptying and things like that and I'm like, wow. I feel like there's a lot going on here. I mean, I guess it should be more intuitive. I should probably stop thinking about it so much. But...
Dr. Dana Cohen: No, it's interesting. I mean, I know a lot of people who do juice and then take that pulp and make those muffins and stuff out of it. I don't know. I don't know the answer. I don't think anybody would have that answer. Maybe, if you find it, I would love to know
Melanie Avalon: If any listeners know, please let me know. It's been haunting me. So, what are some of the foods that you find to be particularly hydrating? Something else? I wonder like fruits for example. There'll be fruits, like blueberries. I love blueberries, but then because they're high in like tannins and maybe more insoluble fiber, would that make them potentially less hydrating than other types of fruits that might be without tannins and different like more soluble fiber? Does that matter as far as hydration potential?
Dr. Dana Cohen: I don't think so. Honestly. I think they're such, the word that I can think is nitpicking about... I think, we’ve list out a list of fruits and vegetables and the amount of water content in them. But the truth is you want to, it's, once again, it's all about the overall big picture of things and how are you feeling? So, if we're going to talk about fruits, we also need to worry about then some of the more sugary fruits and how much fruits in a day are you eating. There's lots of other reasons that maybe you shouldn't eat so much fruit. So, the star though, or the thing that we talk about in the book are more vegetables, like an especially green leafy vegetables. Really getting those into our bodies and I try to lay out a fairly lower glycemic plan where we're not eating so much sugar and so vegetables are incredibly hydrating and that's, you have all the minerals and the vegetables that we need to hydrate. We give the water content, but I don't think that you can say once again by eating broccoli versus blueberries, one is more hydrating than the other in a short term thing. I don't think that's ever been looked at.
Melanie Avalon: Got you. I guess I'm being haunted too much by again, TCM traditional Chinese medicine where it's like every food is like this thing or that or that.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Well I think there's something to what they say in Chinese medicine, but that's also not, once again, not one diet fits all and that's more of a bigger picture of things. So, to put it on the food, it depends on what's going on with the body and also somebody like yourself who maybe who can't tolerate so much raw vegetables, for their gut can tolerate it, then there has to be something else, whether you cook your vegetables or... and does blending help them. It may.
Melanie Avalon: Exactly. For listeners, I did have a really fascinating episode on traditional Chinese medicine, so, I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Listeners you really... definitely get the book quench. It is such a resource. It provides fantastic lists of foods to have for hydration, a dietary protocol that you can follow, those micro movements that we talked about. It's really just an amazing, wonderful resource. I recommend it enough. It also has... Dana, did you develop a beauty water recipes?
Dr. Dana Cohen: We both did. The beauty water recipe. I mean, that's a no brainer though, because they are just very simple, one ingredient; water. So, blueberries in water is a beauty water. I love that idea of making life. So, that's... and by the way, I just want to explain, we've talked a lot of science you got into it. The book is really easily read. It's not a lot. There's the science, which is very interesting, but we try to make it, it's written for the masses. It's meant to help everybody. You're not going to be bogged down by science. Its really readable and I think easily read and then so the beauty waters are things that people can make up on their own too. It's a single ingredient. Even lemon slices in water could be a beauty water. So, very simple one ingredient things that people don't have time to do a blended smoothie, all right, you know what, grab some strawberries and throw them in some water. Easy.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no, for listeners, it's an extremely approachable book. I thought it was brilliantly constructed because it does have all the science, but it is, like you said, Dana, it's an easy read. It's enjoyable, it's so easy to integrate into your life. So, I think it's a wonderful resource. I have two really quick last questions and then I'll let you go. The first one just... I saw that you, one of your fortes is chelation therapy. I was wondering if your chelation therapy approach was completely dietary based or if it is supplemental as well.
Dr. Dana Cohen: No. So, chelation therapy in my office is based on its... I'm certified by ACAM, which is, once again, you mentioned it earlier, the American College for the Advancement of Medicine. It's actually one of the longest running integrative medical organizations meant to educate and other physicians and chiropractors and other providers. Chelation therapy, It's based on removing heavy metals from the body, specifically things like lead and mercury and the chelation therapy that I specialize in is specifically for heart disease. It has to be monitored, it has to be given by a doctor. So, it's not the same as taking like chlorophyll or some other things that can help chelate heavy metals from your body, which is really good and really important. But this is a bigger thing and this is what there's been recently some major studies done on chelation for heart disease or people who have had a heart attack and it helping to prevent a secondary event.
Melanie Avalon: Is it DMPs based or...?
Dr. Dana Cohen: EDTA.
Melanie Avalon: EDTA. Okay. I think I've probably read some of those studies.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah. So, JAMA, the Journal for the American Medical Association, gosh, it's been now probably six or seven years ago, published the first it was over a 10 year study on chelation therapy for heart disease. It was Dr. Lamas, Gervasio Lamas was the main researcher who wrote the... and it was very positive, incredible results they got. Especially with people who had diabetes who had a heart attack, you gave them chelation therapy and they had a huge reduction in their chances of getting a secondary heart attack or event. There's no medication in the world that could have done what chelation did for those people, especially with the diabetes. Currently there is an NIH funded study going on specifically on people with diabetes who've had heart attack and using chelation therapy.
Melanie Avalon: Oh wow. That's fantastic. I think I'm like pretty 100% sure that I read that study because I remember it even talked about how they signed up people and everything.
Dr. Dana Cohen: It was a huge deal. It was. Millions of dollars went into it. Prior to that, it was thought that doctors who did chelation were all quacks and it was incredible. The study was incredible and it took 10 years to do. The cardiologists, Dr. Lamas, I mean, he is a very what's the word, not an integrative cardiologist and he did this study, he took it on and it was incredible. Very positive.
Melanie Avalon: Did they find any negative effects on the kidneys? Do from the chelation therapy?
Dr. Dana Cohen: No negative, in fact it improved kidney function, but somebody who has.. you have to be careful because somebody who's a diabetic might have kidney disease or problems with your kidney. So, you have to... I mean, there's a whole procedure they have to go to in order to dispense and give chelation therapy. So, you need to be careful in patients who have kidney disease with it. It actually improved kidney function if given correctly.
Melanie Avalon: Got you. I do remember reading that as well about the kidneys. I wasn't sure if that was the same study or not.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Yeah, no, it was teased out and the kidney function improved.
Melanie Avalon: That's fantastic. All right, well the last question that I ask every single guest on this podcast, it actually does relate to something you talked about in the book because you did talk about the power of meditation and how mindset actually affects hydration. But I have just been realizing more and more how important mindset is for our health and wellbeing. So, what is something that you're grateful for?
Dr. Dana Cohen: Oh, I love that. I'm just going to be honest. The first thing that comes to my mind is something I say to myself all the time. I am grateful for my brain. I'm grateful that I've taken chosen this path. I was always a good student. Things came very easily to me in undergrad and in high school and it was a great student and it was be- I don't know, my brain, I'm grateful for my intellect. How do I say that in a nice way? I think I was gifted this brain and the way it thinks and I often say that to myself and I'm very grateful for that.
Melanie Avalon: That is wonderful and it really shows through because your work is brilliant. I learnt so much in the book. I wish you could've seen me. I was on the treadmill reading it and like I said, I started doing the movements and I was like, these are the movements I do anyway. It was just like the best moment. I really think you're onto something.
Dr. Dana Cohen: I love it. Thank you. That made my day. That always makes my day. I love it. I get incredible feedback and it just, that's why I did it. I think that we need to step into our bodies. We need to take control and this is your first step in doing before you embark on any diet or whatever it may be, lifestyle change. You have to start here and it's simple and you'll notice a difference and people are really noticing a difference.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no, exactly. Actually, that's one thing that you did mention that really stuck with me as well in the book was you were talking about the power of remembering a time, and I'm paraphrasing, but it was basically like remembering a time that you felt really good moving your body and the power of attaching that memory to your movement. I was like, that is so powerful. I hadn't thought about that before. So, I’ve started integrating that and now even going forward, like I said, I want to do these crazy weird movements I was doing anyway, now I attach this greater mindset. Before, I was just thinking, I was like weird and needed to move, but now it feels very empowering and I know the health benefits from it and I imagine that probably even extends the health benefits as well. So, thank you so much.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Thank you. Thank you so much as well.
Melanie Avalon: Well, enjoy the rest of your evening.
Dr. Dana Cohen: All right, Melanie. Thank you.
Melanie Avalon: Bye.
Dr. Dana Cohen: Bye.
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