The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #289 - Ryan Matthew Cohn & Regina Marie Rossi

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon

friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation I'm about to have. Oh, my goodness. Okay, the backstory on today's conversation. When I first received the the pitch information about these two fabulous guests that I'm here with today, I was an immediate yes, which I think will might shock people a little bit because they probably don't know a bit about this side of me. So first of all, I'm here with Ryan Matthew Cone and Regina Marie Rossi. So I'm going to tell you a little bit more about their their bio and everything, but they lead the oddities flea market. You might know Ryan from he was on the Discovery Channel show oddities. He's also on the web series antiques and their afterlies on Atlas Obscura. They do so much cool stuff with let me tell you what their new book and that'll explain a little bit more. So their new book is The Witches Door. It's called oddities and tales from the esoteric to the extreme. And like I was saying, they do so much cool stuff with oddities in our world. We'll talk all about that in the show. So, you know, weird things that people collect, skeletons and exploded skulls. And if you watch the show oddities, you'll see like all these crazy things people are trading. But in any case, what I was saying at the beginning about this side of myself, I've always been interested in this sort of stuff. So growing up, like after Halloween, for example, I would buy all the discounted Halloween decoration type things to decorate my room to like pimp it out. And my mom was not about it because she thought it was demonic. She actually made me take down some of the stuff that I put up. I would host murder mystery parties. I wanted to paint my room black. My mom also vetoed that. When we went to Paris, I demanded that we visit the catacombs. I've also had a fascination. Regina, we have to talk with Betsy Johnson for forever because I love how she blended like things with the skulls, like the skull aspect. So I've had this side of me. I've always been interested in this stuff. So again, when I saw what Regina and Ryan were doing, I was just so excited to dive into their work and learn about everything that they're doing.  I have so many questions. So Ryan and Regina, thank you both so much for being here. Thanks for having us. Ryan, for example, you also curate art. So you've had your artwork exhibited in the Museum of Arts and Design. You've been featured in Playboy, Revolver, The New York Times, films like Wonderstruck and The Greatest Showman. And then going back to Regina, you helped curate the Brooklyn's House of Wax, which is a bar museum and event space that I am dying to go to. You guys both just do so, so many things and you're on your really cool. Oh, and Regina right now, this made me so happy, is doing an infrared sauna session. So listeners will love that. But in any case, okay, questions for you guys. So well, first of all, one thing to start off with, I love when I read a book, and it puts something in me that actually changes my daily life.

Melanie Avalon

And well, there's a lot of things in your book, but there was one thing that has had a profound effect on how I view my life, which is you talk about the difference between a collector versus a hoarder. And how do you make that distinguishment?  And now when I like walk around and look at stuff in my apartment, I'm like, Hmm, it's like, is this here to be on display? Or is it just here? Like, is it just like stuff? And that has actually given me a lot of peace, like how I view my living space.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

you and me both. And you know, it's funny, I had a conversation with a good friend of mine this morning about this very topic, where, you know, I have a couple antique shows that are coming up this spring, spring is actually one of my favorite times a year, because all the people on the East Coast that have squirreled things away for the whole winter, because there's mostly, you know, everything shut down, this is too cold to, you know, set up outside, or there's not a lot of indoor antique shows, you start preparing for the spring to come, where there's like shows in Massachusetts and New York. And my basement and my studio have gotten so overrun with things that I'm going to be bringing there that I started to teeter on the facts that perhaps I'm becoming a hoarder. I had to ask myself this question this morning.  But I think that there is a distinction between the two things. A collector is someone that collects things. There's sometimes not a rhyme or a reason, but a collector versus a hoarder. A hoarder is someone that can't get rid of something. So you could have a whole house filled with things, and they can't get rid of it. That's where I think I differ. I'm able to, you know, buy something, live with it for a little while, and then at some point resell it. Because at the end of the day, these things, as much as I love them, they're very beautiful to look at. And I love compiling this massive collection, they're all investments. And so I have to treat them as such. And you know, if I'm buying a new collection, I'll sell something to afford it, basically. So you can't keep everything.

Regina Marie Rossi

a lesser mind, a hoarder mind, I don't think that they're thinking, I can't keep everything.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, and I think that also like I think you can be a hoarder of just about anything and I don't know Maybe we are hoarders to a certain degree. Maybe Regina is not I am I should speak for myself You know, we have I don't know how many thousands of objects squirreled into this house right now, but it's many

Melanie Avalon

What would be the hardest thing to get rid of?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

don't think that there is one to be honest with you. You know, I think I've come to this point in my life where I don't mind getting rid of things anymore.  I don't want to get rid of all of it at once. I think that would be the shocking thing. So if you're to ask me that question again, I would say to relinquish myself of the whole collection, that would be tough to get rid of a piece here or a piece there. For the right price, I'll get rid of just about anything including a limb.

Regina Marie Rossi

Really? One of my own. You heard it here folks.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness. Regina, is there anything that would be difficult for you to get rid of? No, no.

Regina Marie Rossi

I'm not emotionally attached. I'm just not.  I see everything as a whole. And I think that is because I'm not a maximalist like Ryan is. So for example, where in the cottage, we were explaining that earlier off camera how we have the three properties. And so we have this adorable little cottage that we usually have a tenant. But I decided that I needed my own space to kind of create my own little world. And that was kind of to get away from the house and all of its things because it does overwhelm me. So my cottage is very different. Now, does it have artwork and really cool things? Of course, but it's just more me. It's just what would you say, Ryan? I don't know.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I think that Regina tends to cater to maximalism, or maximalists. I think a lot of the people that we deal with on an everyday basis are maximalists, including myself.  But Regina is, I think you have tendencies. But I think that you like a slightly less chaos.

Regina Marie Rossi

I do. So I like to come to the cottage and just sort of chill out here because the house can be very overwhelming.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

it can be.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I was listening to one of your recent or one of your interviews and you're mentioning that Regina was on like a minimalist spur, would you identify as a minimalist?

Regina Marie Rossi

I don't buy as many pieces of art and objects as Ryan does. But like, of course, if we're going to talk about clothes and shoes, that's a different story.  So that's what Ryan's giving me a look right now. Because today was one of those days where like, if you're married, you're like, Oh, God, can I answer the door? Because I knew I was getting like, you know, 10 packages.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, I was just about to say like, I was where I'm actually expecting a package. I didn't mention it to you.  And it's coming in. I was like, man, I already just got a package. But that was free. That was like just catalogs from an auction house sending me them. But then I'm like, Oh, shit. I'm like getting this piece. What is Regina gonna say? And then in the meantime, Regina got like five packages. So

Melanie Avalon

You and me both, I'm the exact same way. It's like I'm doing this thing right now. Clearly I need to get skills from you guys about not having attachment. The thing I've been implementing is throw one thing away every day and that's like helping me clear out things, but I'm so bad with ordering the dresses and shoes. It's so bad.  I just have to ask really quickly, Regina, did you work for Betsy, like Betsy, Betsy, like the woman Betsy?

Regina Marie Rossi

So I was a flight attendant, which I know I talk about in the book. And I actually was furloughed because of 9-11. And I had to go back to South Florida where my parents were living until they called me back to work. And in the meanwhile, Betsy Johnson's store head opened and popped up in West Palm Beach. And I kept passing it by and I was drooling over the clothing. And I would walk in and just look at the girl's outfits. And I was like, this is who I am. Like this is me in a shell. It was like 22 years old. And sure enough, I applied and no one called me. And I'm thinking, well, I'm a flight attendant. I have no retail background and no fashion degree. And I just kept applying. And this was when you had to go in and fill out a piece of paper, like it was humiliating, not email or resume and hope for the best. But I kept at it because my job as a flight attendant wasn't coming back quick enough.  And luckily, like third time around, I got lucky there was like the district manager there. And we just started talking. And honestly, she just gave me a chance. And I started as a part time sales associate. And then within three months, I was the store manager. And then two years later, they sent me to New York to run all the New York stores. So then I was actually with Betsy.

Melanie Avalon

That's so amazing. Were you there when it closed?

Regina Marie Rossi

So I decided to leave when I found out that she was selling the company the minute I read the news I knew it wasn't gonna be the same but also now I was like you know late 20s and it wasn't my style anymore and I wasn't enjoying dressing you know 14 15 year olds now I was moving into obviously a different look and so I I got recruited from Alice and Olivia at that point.

Melanie Avalon

And what was Bessie like working for her, like with her?

Regina Marie Rossi

the best and something that I didn't really get into in the book was my mom actually was diagnosed with breast cancer during the time that I was working with Betsy. And this woman who if you know anything about her, she beat breast cancer.  So of course, she's a big, big advocate and donates money and she has amazing connections. So she actually let me throw like a huge fashion show just blew out did signings just to raise money and just in the honor of my mom. Like that's how amazing of a human being she is.

Melanie Avalon

That is so amazing. Okay. Wow. Okay. That makes me love her even more.  And when did you two meet, which by the way, listeners, it's funny, cause the night before I do a show, I always go back last minute and just read all the reviews of the book online on Amazon out of curiosity. Some people were talking about how you guys are soulmates, which literally, I don't, I was thinking about that. I was like, I don't think I've ever seen to people who are clearly like just so clearly soulmates to me. It's just crazy. So how did you guys meet?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

We met, what, 11 years ago? Yeah.

Regina Marie Rossi

Oh, because we've just been married 10 years, so that means 11 years.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

We met because Regina and this is, you know, this is like our, our fun story that we tell, but I was selling a skull at the time and she happened to be looking for one. She followed me on Instagram and she would like message me every so often say, Hey, I'm interested in this skull. And I would just clientele you every so often.

Regina Marie Rossi

I wanted a specific skull. It was, uh, yeah, it was a Tibetan kapala skull, which means it's not like your average medical skull, it's like a skull that is adorned in what, like jewels and stones and it's colorful and quite aesthetically beautiful.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

they're tantric ritualistic skulls from Tibet.

Regina Marie Rossi

Oh, so Ryan never put prices, of course, when he was selling things, he would just say like DM for more info. And so I did, I think I emailed you, I didn't have Instagram, actually.  So I emailed you and I asked the price of something and then I almost dropped dead because I didn't know how much things work. And so I was like, Oh, crap, I don't know how I'm getting out of this one.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Long story short, I would clientele Regina because I found out like what she looked like. And I was like, oh my God, because I think there was pictures on.

Regina Marie Rossi

work and it was agent provocateur.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, so it was like Regina in her agent provocateur outfit. And she happened to live in the same general vicinity as me in New York at the time.  And so I kept like, you know, say, why don't we just meet up for a drink or something? And we almost actually didn't go out for that drink because she thought that I was trying to like hit on her. Like, you know, we, we stayed in contact for a good month before we actually met. We just text back and forth. And we finally met and it was literally like a tornado of the mines. And we literally never left each other's side after that first night. It was just like, we, we went out that one night. I think we went on another date, like a couple of days later. And then third date, we said, I love you. And we got married like six months later.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness. I remember from the book Regina you said like it wasn't the first thing you said to him. Wasn't it like insulting?

Regina Marie Rossi

accidentally. Well, I was pissed that he was late. And this is the funny thing. If you know Ryan, to this day, he has never been late. In fact, Ryan has a problem with anybody that is late, like he will cut them out of his life.  Like he's got this. You're so strict about it. So it's just funny that that night I got there and I sat there at the bar, I almost didn't show up because I was uncomfortable. He was very famous at the time because of the show. And so I was, I remember writing to you like an hour before, just remember, this isn't a date. I'm not one of your like oddities fans. And then you know, two hours later, I'm making out with them in the rain. And I'm like, Oh, dear Lord, what have I done?

Melanie Avalon

by done. Oh my goodness. And then Ryan, you proposed in the catacombs, right?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I did, yeah, and that was a funny story because we're actually on Tuesday, we're headed back there.

Melanie Avalon

That's where you're going. Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's so fun. And are you claustrophobic?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

extremely claustrophobic. And you know, a funny story about me is that or something that people may not know, I haven't entered an elevator in something like 23 years.  And I lived in New York City, I worked in the diamond district for much of that time. And I never took an elevator. And to this day, if I have to go up like 36 flights of stairs, I'll do it. When I work for Discovery Channel, I had to do that once a year, I had to go up the 36 flights to the Discovery Channel room, they always like, allowed me to come a little bit earlier. And I would just do it. I think it's the only way that I've ever stayed in shape is because of that.

Regina Marie Rossi

So when I married Ryan, I lost a view. Oh my God. Every hotel, we have to call and just make sure that we can get him up and down the stairs and on a lower floor. It's a whole to do.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Well, to circle back, the catacombs in Paris are particularly claustrophobic.

Melanie Avalon

They are. I just found this out because I went like a long time ago, but I went with my sister. I dragged her along. I remember the thing, maybe I remember is that when I went in, I didn't realize like how long it was going to take to go at least the part that they had, you know, roped off for that you could go through. I just remember being like, we're down, we've been down here like a long time. And then I just found out like decades later, I had a blast.  I thought it was like the coolest thing ever. I thought my sister had a blast too. She tells me like recently, like a couple of weeks ago that she hated that whole experience. It's like, oh, so I was like, this is like dream in my head of how fun it was, but guess not.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, I mean, it was a little intimidating because actually, it's the stairway that will sometimes make me really freaked out. It's not actually being down in the actual catacombs because once you get down there, it's a little bit more open than you might think. It's the corridors that you have to go down and or through in catacombs in general that sometimes are enclosed.

Regina Marie Rossi

So it wasn't the most romantic proposal, like, for you. No, I mean, you look like you're gonna black out.  And then he, he waited for me to say yes. And then he took off. He like left me down there. Like he just left you

Ryan Matthew Cohn

pushed an old lady out of the way. I was like move it or lose it lady like I'm gonna freak out or I'm gonna take off all my clothes or something like it was weird but you know I think it's still like a very sexy romantic story in the long run.

Melanie Avalon

I love it. Okay.  I have to ask because we actually recently did an episode on the catacombs on my mind blown podcast and I learned so much stuff I didn't know. I feel like if somebody has been invited to like the secret party places they have down there, it would have been you guys. Not that you'd have to say that you did, but do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, of course.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

And I've every single time I've ever gone to Paris, I've been invited by various people to like go into the secret compartments. And the only reason I've never done it, well, besides the fact that I think it's illegal, is that I think that I'm going to get into a situation where it might be a little too claustrophobic.  And it's like that person probably think I'm a dork or something.

Melanie Avalon

They found like a full-blown movie theater down there.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I've heard about that. Yeah, it's really fascinating. There's a lot of interest. There's so much of the catacombs that you do not see on the actual like, you know, one room corridor that you go down.

Melanie Avalon

And tying it back to your, well, it is about your book, but it's interesting how they, like, especially in the part that you go through, it's like artwork, you know, like they have the skulls arranged and like hearts and like different, different things. And it's like, okay, wow.  So this, this must have been a theme throughout humanity where people are drawn to this really interesting, I don't know how to describe it, but this vibe of the macabre with like artsiness, like, cause I feel like people, this is a question for you. What do you think determines what's, quote, weird or abnormal to be attracted to with all of this stuff? Because one of the things I was reading in the reviews is a lot of people were saying they felt less alone, but there's like other people who are into all of this. Is there anything that other people do that's weird to you? Like, like, what do you think this whole thing?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

of world's weird, my God. I think everyone else is weird and then sometimes I feel like the normal person, but I think people are usually afraid of different topics.

Regina Marie Rossi

That's what I think it is, too.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

And I think instead of saying you're afraid of something, you would just deem it as weird or obscure or untouchable.  And throughout history, there's been a huge tie between art and death, and it started to go away towards the 20th century.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, because in the Victorian era, they celebrated that.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Well, the Victorian era, and as you're talking about the catacombs, which many of which date back to like the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, there was art, there was beauty in death. And you can look at various art forms, but including the catacombs, if you go to some of the churches in Italy, I think we were one in Rome, there's a catacomb that is all very delicately and beautifully rendered into these shapes and vignettes and such, or, you know, like baby skeletons are up on the ceiling, or there's like different shapes of skulls and bones that shaped some other, other portrait or something.  And at some point, we stopped using death as something beautiful, and just turned it more, I think, into a business. Because even during the Victorian era, as Regina was just saying, we celebrated death through art in, you know, using like memorial hair, that was a very popular form of memento mori, or memorial art, where, you know, people who had passed away, they would make these, these wreaths or, you know, flowers made out of human hair, and it was like a memorial to that person. And though there's people that still practice that art form, it's very much receded.

Melanie Avalon

When you pass away, do you guys have funeral wishes for how you want that to happen?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

You know, I think that we used to we used to like toy with the idea of like having our skeletons cleaned by this facility in Oklahoma, be together, be together, having our skeletons articulated in some, some like institution somewhere. But, you know, when you really start to think about how to actually do that, it's very difficult, it's very expensive, and it's very unlikely.  So, I don't know, I think that there's probably something artistic that could be done with with our bodies. I don't know if we fully determine that now.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, I mean, it's such a good question. Because yeah, you would assume it's true that we did look into preserving our bodies together. We really did.  We did go through like, a couple years of research. And then like Ryan said, we did find out how difficult that would be. Or we also I think now, from going to so many museums and going to back rooms, there's the fear of we could end up in a back room, we could literally end up in the trash because sometimes curators change or rules change.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I think it's a good point, Regina. Hey, someone will steal us and then sell us to some weird hiding place.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness, what do you want?

Regina Marie Rossi

much rather just be like a tree at this point and actually, you know, do something for the universe.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

left in like a dog park and they can like do with whatever they want.

Melanie Avalon

He could be a shrunken head.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

No, I prefer not to, you know that process all too well.

Melanie Avalon

One of my best friends had his marching orders, so that if I die young, I want a haunted mansion themed funeral. Um, like Disney.  So, um, yeah, how about, oh, okay. Now I'm just getting into all the personal stuff, but you, uh, you talk at the end of the book about how you don't anticipate having children, I think.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Oh no, that ship has sailed a long time ago.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, it's just dogs, and the cat. So I love this idea of like, what role does your collection play in your longevity and like what lives on after you, and also what will happen to all your collection after you're gone?

Regina Marie Rossi

Literally, this is my biggest fear in life. And who are we just talking? Who was I just Oh, we talk

Ryan Matthew Cohn

TV pitch yesterday, the woman that we were speaking with, I think asked us about that very question. And Regina went on a very like long winded answer about how she's just very afraid that I'm going to pass away or

Regina Marie Rossi

he passes away first, what the hell would I do? Because when you don't have children and you don't have somebody to donate these things to, because you have to understand, as beautiful as we might think our home is, and other people come to our house and they're in awe, it doesn't necessarily mean that they want it.  In fact, it's quite overwhelming to most people. What would you do if I left you 100,000 pieces of, give me a break, like it's crazy. So once again, I think we've learned museums probably aren't interested in our collection.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

learned something even deeper than that. It's more of a cautionary tale.  I mean, most of the collections that I procure are from someone that passed away, and they never got around to selling their collection. And while I'm, you know, aesthetically and historically enjoying this collection now at age 44, you know, I'd like to retire at some point. And this is sort of my nest egg to a certain degree. And, you know, I still have some I still have some time here to like do exhibitions and showcase my collection to the general public.  But after that, I don't want to get to a situation where I'm like sick or I'm dying or something. And then I have to sell the collection and I really

Regina Marie Rossi

somebody else. And that's a burden in my opinion.  Because without your knowledge, nobody would know what to do or how much these things are worth. I always tease Brian and I say like, Oh my God, if you died first, like how many collectors would be bothering me harassing me, I would probably need to hire security could you just wait

Ryan Matthew Cohn

for me to drop dead

Melanie Avalon

this is crazy and you don't think museums would be interested and you know

Ryan Matthew Cohn

problem with a collection like ours, or like, if you read the book, there's a story about the great Richard Harris. And Richard Harris had amassed probably the most impressive largest collections I've ever seen on the subject of death. And he there's this lifelong ambition and dream was to leave it to a museum. And he came close with a couple different institutions. And the problem was, there was just too many pieces. And some museums would be like, Oh, I want this subsect of the collection. I just want these pieces. He wanted to give away the whole collection. Mind you, this guy spent something like $10 million on his collection during his lifetime. And he never got around to doing it.  And so I just don't want that to happen to to me.

Melanie Avalon

Would you consider, you mentioned in the book, like upselling your stuff. That was called upselling, where you like make the collection smaller by getting more expensive pieces.  Would you start that process?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I would do that if I moved. So I think the next time that I move or if we decide to sell our home, I'm going to, I'm not gonna buy a bigger house.  I'm gonna probably buy a smaller house just because I don't want the hassle anymore. And so I probably sell like a large majority of the collections keep a handful of the things that are near and dear to me.

Melanie Avalon

question about looking at your collection because they say they say when you have something in your environment that you see every day you like stop seeing it do you look at your own collection still constant

Ryan Matthew Cohn

constantly.

Regina Marie Rossi

Ryan, you do.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, and I mean, while you were gone, I think you were at like getting a facial or something I was I was cataloging this one shelf in my library because I haven't done it yet. And that's been one of my main objectives lately is to just catalog everything so that I can start, you know, basically figuring out exactly what I have.  And it's so vast that it's going to take me years to do this. I mean, we had an assistant doing it for a while. But I do I mean, I'll just go up into my library sometimes and look through my historic book collection one book at a time, or I'll, you know, sometimes I like want to dust off a shelf. So it gives me the opportunity to like take things down that it might not have looked at for the past five years.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah. And then I'm the opposite. So I walk past, he could change a whole entire room and I'll walk in and he'll say, Raj, did you notice something? And I'm like, huh?  Did I notice what? Because I see everything as one, as one huge hole. Whereas Ryan can zone in and see every individual. He even knows if like the housekeeper has shifted something by a half of an inch. Oh yeah.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I actually have to go around after she's cleaned the house or helped us clean I will I have to go shift things over like an inch or like a quarter of an inch in some cases because I'll go crazy and I can tell when someone's like move something god forbid anything ever went missing I would know right away.

Melanie Avalon

So when you guys go, like, if you go out to like a new restaurant, do you also have that lens? Like Ryan, do you see all the individual and Regina, you see the whole of the restaurant?

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, probably. I would say probably.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, just look at the food. I don't know.

Regina Marie Rossi

No, you'll be like, look at that light. Or you'll say, Ryan has this thing about if there's somebody trying to do an aesthetic.  And he's like, No, I'm sorry, that lamp over there is new. But this one's old, like you'll find the one thing that doesn't belong with everything else. He'll point it out.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, like period movies. You don't want to go to the theater with me. I'm Oh, man. an asshole.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my gosh, I bet. How did you decide, because you've touched on, so for listeners, if you read The Witches Door, which you totally should, it's so, so fascinating, there are all these different stories in the book, which I imagine are probably just like a tiny, you know, tiny glimpse into everything that you've been through.  How did you decide what to include and like, what made you decide to bookend with The Witches Door experience?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

There are so many other stories, and I think we we tried to at the very beginning. Regina, I just sat in a room and we jotted down like 20 of our favorite stories because there's way more than I mean, like every time I go out on a buying trip, there's some interesting thing that happens. It was just that there was, you know, a handful of stories that were just a little bit above and beyond as experiences. They were like life changing experiences. So I think like the most memorable ones are the ones that ended up in the book.  And we had to remove a bunch and we ended up adding two full chapters when we had already submitted the book to a publisher.

Regina Marie Rossi

were two stories happening in live time while we were writing that book. So in other words, the Richard Harris collection was happening, right?  So that's why he sort of mentioned more than once and like he has a chapter and then it kind of ends with him too. And then the dolls, which we can talk about, I guess that was going on while we were writing the book. And then it was our editor that said, we're going to add this at the end, because this has been crazy, like the last couple of months.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, so I loved the dolls story. And it was really fascinating to me was, because it's creepy hearing about it, but I never get a sense of fear from either of you, at least not in the book.  Yeah. So what happened with the dolls? What was that experience?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

The dolls were just these dolls that I picked up at a local flea market here. And I didn't think anything of it. They were aesthetically creepy, you know, 1920s Charlie McCarthy dolls. And they all had a very good patina, but these two particular ones that I ended up keeping out of the 12 that I procured, were just like the best examples that I've seen. Like the paint was very much intact. They had their clothes still intact. And I just kept them because I didn't have any. And I figured, I'll hold on to them for a little while and then I'll sell them in the future.  And they had lived with us for a good year before anything really super weird started to happen, except they would occasionally end up at different parts of the room. And we really just thought that, I actually thought that Regina was like messing with me, or that you thought it'd be funny to like move the dolls to like one side of the room or like knock one of them down or like maybe the dogs knocked them down.  And she swore that she never did that. And the only other people that are ever in our house would be like our assistant or the person that helps us clean the house. And she never touches anything. I mean, she's like afraid of that room in particular. So they were just moving. I can't really fully explain it. And then Regina started to hear footsteps above us. Cause like our living room is on the main floor. And right above that is the room that the dolls inhabit is. And so some of the strange stuff was going on up into the time that we were photographing the insert for the book.  And we decided because we had mentioned the dolls in the book that we should include them in the color photographs. And the day that we shot them, I sort of disrespected them. I kind of threw them on the table and our photographer who happens to be somewhat of a superstitious guy. And I think he's very in tune with the paranormal. He said, yo, we have to ask them permission. Regina are just like, yeah, whatever dude, you're a freak of nature.

Regina Marie Rossi

we were laughing because he had just, you know, he had already photographed a shrunken hat, he had already photographed an elongated skull, right? Like a dissected, all of these things.  So it was just funny when he got to the dolls, he was like, nope.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, he said he didn't want to photograph him. And we were just like, whatever dude, they're just dolls. And then immediately after saying the stuff and having the conversation, their mandibles both just fell out of their head. It was almost like they were talking or retaliating.  And the story that I tell and I've said this a million times and we write about it in the book, I'll never fully understand what happened because how a ventriloquist dummy is constructed is that the mandibles held in place by a little metal rod that attaches to the inside of the head. And then there's a string that's attached to that that goes out the backside of the doll so that you can pull it and the mouth will move up and down so that you can, you know, put its voice as your own. Not supposed to move your lips, of course. And both of them were cut. So at some point, they were cut. I don't know who would have possibly done that, why they would do that, how it was done. But they were cut. And I actually was kind of pissed off. I'm like, Oh, my God, you're like, Dave, did you cut these? These are like our best friend in the world. He appreciates our collection. We never mess with any of my stuff. So that was another weird thing. And then after that happened, I just throw them onto a couch that's in that room. And then the real havoc started to take place.

Melanie Avalon

When what started happening, like you said, like packages and fire stuff.

Regina Marie Rossi

Oh, it was from both of our cars on separate occasions broke down mine actually, I had a brand new car, it just started overheating and almost it left us abandoned in like another state, things of that nature, then our venue in LA, we got an email that it closed. And so we had to cancel a whole event, anything that could happen to us.  Oh, and then we had a tenant yet we had a tenant living in the cottage and there the heat broke. And that was a major investment to fix it such an expensive. Yeah, that was a lot.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

It was all those things. And then also the dolls basically would like jump off of the cabinet that we had them on to the point where I had to like basically put a brick in front of them. And I started getting so scared of these two dolls that I stopped going into the library.  And at that time, yeah, we I reached out to one of my friends who's in the paranormal world. She's like a pseudo expert on the subject. And I said, you know, what do I do? Like, I don't know what to do with these things. Do I burn them? Do I bury them? And that wasn't what we were told to do.

Regina Marie Rossi

And I did everything wrong. I was burning sage. I was told that actually would only piss them off. So I did everything wrong. Oh no.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

It turns out that I think that someone did some sort of like reverse magic on us or something or put a curse on us. I don't know but it wasn't until I actually got these things out of our possession that everything just went back to normal.  Like everything worked itself out and our lives got much easier and better. Like even going to the UPS store to put these things in a box and chip them out, my car started to mess up again. And it never happened again after they were gone. So.

Regina Marie Rossi

We know where they are, and we are aware that the person that took them off of our hands has had a lot of problems with them.

Melanie Avalon

Oh really?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, you know, I ended up thinking at some point, I almost didn't get rid of them because it was like, oh my God, we'll become famous from these dolls. It wasn't worth it to me.

Regina Marie Rossi

No way.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

They were just wreaking too much havoc on our lives.

Regina Marie Rossi

broke by the end of it.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, I mean they cost us probably a good $40,000 or something.

Regina Marie Rossi

a period of like two to three weeks.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, and you did apologize to them right and better

Regina Marie Rossi

did. We did.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

go into like full detail but yes we we kissed their feet and told them to leave us alone basically.

Melanie Avalon

And the person who bought them knew that you were having this experience.

Regina Marie Rossi

Oh, she didn't even buy them. We gave them to her. We just ship them to her. Oh, no, I

Ryan Matthew Cohn

worked her everything. She was someone that I was talking to on a daily basis.  And she's had a ton of success with them. Like they turn, they went completely viral, like, tens of millions of views they've gotten. But it wasn't worth it to me. And to be honest with you, I can even look at pictures of them.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, like if we get tagged in them or whatever like we don't even look

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness. Okay, that's okay. This is crazy. Did you have any other experiences with objects like that or was that like the main not really

Ryan Matthew Cohn

you know, and it's funny in the book, I literally say at some point, like, hey, spirits come and haunt me, because I tried so hard to not only be open minded to the capability of seeing a spirit or being haunted, I just had never seen anything nothing ever happened in my life of collecting the odd and unusual, where I felt threatened, weird or otherwise.

Regina Marie Rossi

our friend Steve Gonzalves from Ghost Nation, right?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

ghost hunters or something.

Regina Marie Rossi

Nisha, I have no idea. He just came over as a friend one night and he told us, I don't feel anything in your house.  And I always told Ryan, I feel like if something was off, the dogs would let me know because animals to me are, I don't know, obviously their senses are just way higher than ours. And they have never like done anything strange or stared at anything or got nervous. Like our house has always been so peaceful.

Melanie Avalon

Wow. Yeah, I was just about to ask like the vibe of the house. Do people get that vibe? But wow.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

happened, people that came into our home and said, Oh, my God, our spirit field day in here, it's like Lollapalooza of the dead. But I've never said it is like that. They said it is. Yeah.

Regina Marie Rossi

some people say it.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

If you're open-minded to anything, you can perpetuate it.

Regina Marie Rossi

That's yeah, if that's true.

Melanie Avalon

How'd you find the house?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

We found the house.

Regina Marie Rossi

you found the house well yeah

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I found the house, we were like looking for a house for the longest time. I've lived in Brooklyn for two decades and I was just like needing more space.  I had like storage units all over the place and I just couldn't operate there with ease anymore and the pandemic was going on and I ended up finding this house in Westport, Connecticut, which just kind of like was the perfect situation at three properties. It was like over an acre and it was like the perfect backdrop and it's right on the ocean. It's a beautiful little town and we found the house before we actually found the town.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, I'd never I couldn't believe it was only an hour from New York City and I'd never even heard of it. And then I just couldn't believe that I could walk to the train to get back into the city in an hour.  But then I can also walk two minutes and be at the beach. So it's kind of the best of both worlds.

Melanie Avalon

and it has a chapel on the property.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah. And the chapel is very interesting.  It used to be located at a different part of Westport, Connecticut. And when they built the parking lot or something, they ended up moving it because it was like hindering the parking lot. So it was probably auctioned off as far as we know in the 1950s. And then it was used by a deacon for congregation for a brief period of time, I think, while the actual church in our town was being renovated. And so when we first started looking at the house, it had seating and it was basically set up for congregation.

Melanie Avalon

Wow, that's really cool. Yeah, is there art in that room in the chapel?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

No, well, Regina laughs because that was going to be a property that I was going to renovate and you know, bring up to snuff so that I understand there's

Regina Marie Rossi

dreams of what that space would be.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

happen, but currently, instead of having storage units, it acts as like an antique depository.

Regina Marie Rossi

I mean like Florida ceiling you need a hard hat to go in there I mean I the last time you opened the door I looked up and there was like a humongous like I don't know 12-foot like Alligator staring at me from the ceiling

Ryan Matthew Cohn

among other things, yeah.

Melanie Avalon

you're talking about things going viral and everything. Can you anticipate what you think people are going to be most interested in or fascinated by when it comes to all of this? Or is it hard to do?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Not particularly. I mean people still know me as like the skull guy It's always been something that people relate to me with and you know I actually I collected real skulls back in the day and it's not something that I focus on any longer I already did that stuff. I

Regina Marie Rossi

Evolved as a collector

Ryan Matthew Cohn

evolved as a collector. And I think it was just like time that I shift my direction into something else.  So I started to focus more on like sculpture and the history of art. So there's a lot of like ancient sculptures, right, so like contemporary pieces. So it's a lot of like sculptures, paintings, mixed media art, and everything across the board. And I think the Richard Harris collection really made me grow up a lot, because that is a very sophisticated collection. And so my palette has become much more sophisticated.

Melanie Avalon

Do you find that the majority of your audience is also collecting or into this as well, or is it other people like non collectors?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

It's it's a big mix. And it's it's different. Like we have the oddities flea market page. Regina has her own private page and then I have my personal page.

Regina Marie Rossi

I feel like it's three different sets of followers. I really do.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah. So like the audit easily market page is not really to showcase us necessarily. We don't think we have an event or something interesting coming up. We'll post it on there.  But my personal one is really about the collection and you know, the things that I find, you know, beautiful or interesting. So I tend to share that stuff on there. And there's a really broad spectrum of clientele. And it could be, you know, like a famous person, or a doctor, or just some interesting someone that's like interested in the same types of things. Or if there's someone that's like trying to decorate their house and looking at my page for inspiration or Regina's page for inspiration. So really is a extremely broad spectrum.

Melanie Avalon

I'm super curious when you were doing oddities, a TV show, because I lived in LA for like 10 years and for a while I was doing a lot of like reality TV. So little, little things on reality TV, but I would do things like I was on, I think some like pawn shop reality TV show.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

PONSTARS!

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, yeah, I was a yeah, I wasn't actually I wasn't actually pawning the thing. It was a casting call.  So not that you have to comment on this. I'm just really curious the transactions that happened in that show. Like how how much influence was there by the producers on those scenes?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

for like the show oddities or pond stars.

Melanie Avalon

for oddities.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Oh, well, look, I mean, if you were like filming a reality TV show and you were just sitting around waiting for people to like bring in interesting objects, you'd be waiting a really long time. Yeah, exactly. Most of those people that were on the show were actual customers that came in and, you know, dealt with things. But, you know, we sped up the process. If someone had like purchased something, you know, a couple of years prior, we'd go and sort of like redo that scene. So, you know.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, is it real?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, is it fake? Yeah, I mean reality TV is not really that real.  It's, you know, sometimes a situation but then reenacted to a certain degree. Okay, I always I always I always kind of compare them to modern day soap operas.

Melanie Avalon

Mm-hmm. I like that.  Yeah. Yeah, I saw it just because of the nature of what I was doing where it's like responding to cast and calls I saw Such a broad spectrum of what you just mentioned of you know, is it real or fake? There's some that were realer than others some that were just shockingly Stayed

Ryan Matthew Cohn

We were on I hate to even admit this but we were on pond stars The casting director and like reached out to us and was like, oh we really want to bring you in as an expert and you know, you could be great as like a Reoccurring person and a lot of my friends are on that show as an expert because that's what they do They're like a specialist on antiquarian books or someone that's like interested or like like an oddities Enthusiast or whatever whatever the topic may be and so I agreed to do it It was a horrible experience.  It was total bullshit and they just treated me like I was any other person And the guy knew absolutely nothing about the object that I brought on there and they actually had me bring Regina on as well And she brought one of our really cool architectural sound

Regina Marie Rossi

was wasted drunk.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, it was wasted. So it was total bullshit, they would get like little Q booklets to like read about what was in front of them, or they would take the information I was reading and then just read it themselves.  So I don't know. If I were to do it again, I would do it in a very different way.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, did you enjoy the oddities experience overall?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Oh, yeah, I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. And it's not something that I was like striving to do. I never like thought I would do anything in TV. And I had no idea what I was doing at the beginning. But I just became very naturally and I'd love to do it again.  You know, we're pitched shows all the time. And there hasn't been one yet that was just perfect for us. But I think that they're at some point could be

Melanie Avalon

You were like doing rockstar type stuff, right? Like originally like in a band and everything in LA.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I was doing that stuff but I had kind of stopped doing that at some point because I opened up a bespoke suiting shop with my friends in New York City and so that took precedent. So I was doing all of the jewelry and accessories for that shop.  During that time I was designing for like Ralph Lauren and Double RL and other such places and I was very busy doing that stuff and I loved it and we were getting a lot of customers and it was really like I thought that was what my path was but I was also doing antique preparations for people or restorations or just you know adding things to my own personal collection. So it's like basically juggling the two things like trying to do all the orders that I had for the store but then you know selling antiques on the side and then you know working for you know doing like freelance stuff and then the show just happened to come along and I didn't really think that I could actually do it because I was like so busy already and I kind of said yes because I thought that show was only going to last like three episodes. We're like oh we'll probably just do a pilot and then it'll just live and bulk status infamy and like it was really cool. We ended up doing I don't know how many seasons it actually equated to but there was like 75 episodes when all said and done and what it did was one it opened up the community of oddities. A lot of people really know that oddities existed before that show and it gave people the opportunity to associate my name with what I really love and enjoy doing and for those things I'm incredibly grateful always.

Melanie Avalon

I was watching it last night. So there was five seasons and wait the timeline of it. So you, Regina, we were together during while he was filming. Yes. No, no.

Regina Marie Rossi

It was over. Yeah. It was over. Okay.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

after I think we had like, we got canceled. We actually got canceled after signing a contract for a new season. And I think Regina met me like just a couple months after that.

Melanie Avalon

If you had met when you were in that show, what do you think that experience would have been like? Like Regina, would you have gone on the show? I think you would.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

have been on it all the time. Oh, God. Yeah, because they were always looking for odd and interesting people and Regina is definitely odd and interesting. So I think they would have probably turned that into like some sub story.  And who knows, we probably could have gotten a show from that show had it been on still.

Regina Marie Rossi

But we did. So I mean, we started filming our wedding for a TV show pretty shortly after we met. And that was my first experience in television. And I hated it.  You still hate it. Yeah, I still hate it. I have a very why we've said no to every pitch. I have a really hard time a being fake, be having to work if I'm in a shitty mood, like for the camera. Do you see what I'm saying? Because I just have such a hard time. I'm not an actress is what I'm trying to say.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

And there's there is a certain level and I'm sure you could relate to this Melanie in being an actor of some sort correct or being able to just flip the switch you could be having a terrible day and then the second the cameras on you, you have to be vibrant and exciting and interesting and intriguing. And it's hard to do sometimes but I think some people are better at it than others.

Regina Marie Rossi

right? And so I'm you know, I'm moody. And I am I'm a bit I just have a problem with producers telling me to do something I don't want to do when it's my life. Like, that's the thing. It's different when it's something else. But when it's your actual life, and they're trying to control the narrative, or put words in your mouth, I have no tolerance for bullshit. So I just have a kind of a poor attitude.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

maybe you just have like trouble with authority.

Regina Marie Rossi

that too. That's why we just had to do our own thing.

Melanie Avalon

Would you want to make like a non reality TV show TV show or you know, like a documentary or something like that?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I think that my perfect show would be one where either me or both of us go to different collections. And it doesn't have to be auditors. It can be anything.  It can be art collections, interesting homes or different, you know, interesting museums around the world and go and talk to the people that put them together or, you know, the curators of these spaces. I've never really seen a good show on that subject where it was intriguing enough for that it works. And I think that would be a great show that we can both relate to.

Regina Marie Rossi

that. And I think that, you know, even something like the oddities play market, I love, love like what brings me joy is introducing other talented, like minded people, whether they're artists, collectors, like I love putting them in the spotlight, not necessarily me.  So something like that would be amazing because the characters that we meet on a daily basis are amazing. They should all have their own TV shows.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah. And there's a deeper story with each artist or, you know, antique dealer that we deal with on an everyday basis.  You just have to do scratch. You're seeing like, just the, you know, like the photos of what they do, but there is something more interesting behind that.

Melanie Avalon

Regina, you sound more like the producer, rather than the...

Regina Marie Rossi

Oh, for sure. You know, even like when we do pitches for, you know, these, these people that contact us, I always give a disclaimer like, hey, and if I'm not a fit, like Ryan can do his own thing. Like, I don't need to be there. Like, I'm not like, you could just tell from even like my social media, it's not something I keep up, I focus on oddities flea market, not myself. I don't need to be the front and center. It doesn't bring me joy to be front and center.  So, but Ryan has a gift on television. I have jazz hands. Yeah, you're amazing on television, like the cameras come on and light up. And so it's something that I would like him to do doesn't necessarily need to be me as well. Oh my goodness.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

About train in my normal life, and then it become David Lee Roth

Regina Marie Rossi

like, you know, once every once in a while, so people know that I'm alive, you know. She's here.  I'll bring some dark humor to something. And then I just go back to, you know, the red light sauna and the dogs.

Melanie Avalon

Yes, I love it. I'm curious, you're talking about, you know, this idea of traveling and seeing all these different things and a show around that.  When it comes to all these different potential objects, which type might people be surprised are like very valued and expensive that you wouldn't expect? And then on the flip side, think objects that people might think are value, like really valuable and expensive, but aren't worth as much? Like, are there categories of that type?

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, I mean, people do send us photos of things, and they think that something is worth a lot. And then you have to tell them there were like a million of them made, or theirs is not, theirs is new, not old. So that does happen more than like, I mean, come on, right?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, that happens pretty frequently. And, you know, there's certainly been pieces that I invested in that maybe were purchased for a really high number, and then they end up selling an auction for a really low number. So even though you've been dealing with things for many, many years, you can get stumped, or you can make a false investment or a bad one.  Or sometimes you can make a really good one. I've certainly purchased things that were like $5,000 and sold them for 100,000. Like, oh, wow, you just have to be savvy, you have to always have your ears open and you have to like

Regina Marie Rossi

And also gain as much provenance as possible and know where it came from before you and have that history because that can make something very valuable.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I was just gonna say, I have to have your eyes and your ears open and out at all times.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I think one of my favorite stories in the book wasn't there it was under we were talking about scams and like some sketchy things happening and there was somebody where they grave diggers, possibly that well.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I think you're talking about the Victorian coffin chapter. Yes.

Melanie Avalon

Yes, yes.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, so that was an interesting tale where we were visiting Regina's mom at a nursing home, where she resides in Rhode Island. And it's always like, sort of a sad situation to go there. But you know, we go there, spend time with her. And Reg always has like a lot of stuff to do. And sometimes I'm just like checking my emails or like looking at my phone to, you know, just keep on top of things.  And that day, we get a very odd email. And it's this woman saying, Hey, are you interested in Fisk coffins. And a Fisk coffin, for those of you that don't know what they are, they're these cast iron coffins that were made for the very wealthy during the Victorian era. And they almost look like a sarcophagus. They have these like beautiful draped details. And there's like a viewing window so that you can see the individual space. And the thought process was because you could enclose the person inside this by bolting the two sides shut, you would preserve the body for you know, eternity. I think that was the thought process. And I think they've looked at many of these coffins and the person was preserved after 50 to 100 years or something. Because no air is getting in there. So I don't know what the body would look like. I've never taken the time to look at one of course, but this person said I forget what the number of I'm gonna have to like look at the book to fact check but she had a bunch of them. I think there's like six or something or maybe more. I was intrigued. It's not something that I normally collect. But these are so incredibly rare that you typically only see them in a museum. And they had a bunch of them. And I said, Well, yeah, I'm interested in all of them. Let me know how much you want. And we went back and forth. And you know, I ended up like getting on the phone and just started to ask early, all right, these are great. Like I could tell by the pictures you sent me the conditions great. Like, what do you want for him? We sort of agreed on a price. And then it was like, Oh, shit, like you live in like the Midwest somewhere. How do we get them to me? And then she started talking about how she could deliver them blah, blah, blah, long story short, there was one in particular that I want, which was the smaller version, which would have been for a young person. That of course, is the much rarer version. I was thinking I would keep that one and sell the rest of them and you know, make my money back in a profit. And then we get to keep the coolest one. Well, then I started to get into the question of where did these come from, by the way, I forgot to ask you. And that's where the conversation started to like, lean into an odd direction. And she actually got very strange. And we ended the phone call at that time to pick it back up again while she looked into some logistics. Well, the next phone call that we had, she told me, well, look, we can't sell you the young person coffin. We want to keep that one. And as I started to talk to her more, the stories seem to evolve and get into a darker, more grim conclusion.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

And I'm not going to give away the whole story because it's in the book, and I'd rather people read it. But it ended the phone conversation there.  And I never spoke to that person ever again, because it was sort of a salacious detail that she left out at the beginning of the conversation that would have like, ended it much sooner. So I didn't end up with the coffins. I don't know whatever happened to them. Maybe she sold them. Maybe they didn't. Hopefully, they went back into the ground if you catch my drift. And you know, it was one of those situations that is a better story to tell now. But I'm glad that we didn't follow through with the sale.

Melanie Avalon

It was a really suspenseful story in the book. And how common is it for scams and fakes and does it happen to you personally much?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Personally no, but I see them happen all the time or you know scandals in the oddities community or you know, just

Regina Marie Rossi

She happens to a lot of collectors, you know, and they'll come to you and then be like, oh, crap, I fell for this and it wasn't real.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Oh, yeah, I mean, I see fakes come up at auction all the time. And in fact, I've been bringing this up a lot recently in Italy. There are several dealers that are just selling fake stuff. They're passing it off as original, like 16th to 19th century legitimate antiques. And while they're made with a lot of antique elements, they're not real. Like an artisan is taking these objects, manipulating them and then selling them as something else, and there's hundreds of them coming in. And they're ending up at auction. They're ending up at people's personal collections. And I'm sure in some cases, they're ending up at museums. And it's creating this false narrative, these false stories.  And not a ton I can do. I could try to expose it. But the last time I tried to do that, the conversation did not go well. And the seller got very offended. And it's just sometimes it's not worth it. But I try to warn people as best I can.

Melanie Avalon

That makes me think of two questions. One, how do you feel about restorations in general?  I've, I've always been really fascinated by restorations because it's so cool because you're bringing something back to, you know, the way it was originally, but also it feels to me, and when I think about it, I'm like, oh, but you're also, maybe I don't know enough about the restoration process. It sounds like it's not exactly the original you like added, you know, you did something to it. How do you feel about restorations?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

It really depends on what the item is. If it's painting, you can get paintings restored. I'd say like, I don't know what the percentage is, but many paintings in a museum have been restored over the years, they almost need to be because the clear coat on those deteriorates over the years, or they get stained, and they do need to be cleaned. And that is a form of restoration, or if something has a tear in it, like a canvas, for instance, those need to be restored before they're put on public display. So with something like a painting, totally fine, and it doesn't even necessarily deter the value.  Something like a book, I won't buy a book personally, that's been rebound, unless it's been done really, really well and convincingly. But you, for very, very old antiques, you almost need to restore them to a certain degree, or at least clean them. Other things, I think it definitely can mess with the value or the aesthetic of something, you know, if something repainted, someone repainted something, or if there was like, something that had patina, and it was cleaned up, sometimes that can deter the value of something or just, you know, mess with the overall aesthetic. So, you know, you use restoration when needed, you leave things when it's not necessary, basically, piece by piece basis.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, this is super random. Do you know why the Mona Lisa is famous? Like I was just

Ryan Matthew Cohn

about the Mona Lisa today because we're headed to the Louvre next week and there's a couple interesting exhibitions and we were told that there's going to be some new restoration going into the building and that they're either going to rehouse the Mona Lisa or they're going to try to like move it to Italy or something. Well, now,

Regina Marie Rossi

I was explaining that Italy wants it back and that they found out that, you know, the Louvre is going to do some restoration. So they're like, in the meanwhile, send it back to us.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

they could make off of it. If you've ever been to the Louvre, at some point, you're going to find this gigantic crowd huddled around. And it's so much.

Regina Marie Rossi

smaller than what people think it is.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

But, you know, there's a ton of stuff online you can read about the eccentricities of the Mona Lisa, I think it was stolen at one point, if not more than. And I, you know, it's a beautiful painting, don't get me wrong.  It's a very memorable one, of course. I never looked at it.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, we could care less.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

There's a lot of Caravaggio's that I would rather look at.

Regina Marie Rossi

We skip it, let's just say.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

there's a ton of really rare memento mori pieces that are never spoken about at the lubes that I'd much prefer to gawk at.

Melanie Avalon

The reason I thought about it was in one of the books I had on, the author was using it as an example of a psychological effect because you mentioned it getting stolen and basically it wasn't famous at all. And then it got stolen and then everybody cared, like it got all of its fame from that.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yes, because it was the story of it. It was the allure.

Regina Marie Rossi

And it was an Italian person that worked at a museum in Italy and they just wanted it back to their country. It's fascinating.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, but it was almost like how these influencers today was, you know, over hype a restaurant, then you of course go to the restaurant and it kind of sucks. But you almost want to tell yourself like, Oh, this is really good.  Well, in actuality, it's just mediocre.

Melanie Avalon

I remember actually speaking of this type of stuff. I think the coolest thing I saw in the Vatican was how they have the, um, the bodies of, they have like bodies down there, popes preserved.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

They say we're weird.

Melanie Avalon

I know. The Catholics, right? The Catholics.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

the most grim people on earth, my man.

Melanie Avalon

I was like, Oh, okay, yeah, it was really, really, really interesting to me. How do you feel about AI affecting all of this? Like, do you think it will?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Look, we live in the 21st century. We are very aware of it.  And we accept certain inventions such as like Amazon and other such things that are necessities of common day life. But I hate it. I hate how it's impacted art. I hate how it's impacted interior design. And I get duped all the time. And I'm like, yeah, I try to tell myself like, well, this is still interesting to look at as inspiration. But it's not real. But it's not real. And there's so many other things that I would rather look at that are real.

Regina Marie Rossi

Well, especially people, the average person is not going to determine what is real and what's not real. So it takes away from the actual talented people.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

why are you and I so opposed to AI? Because I think it can be a useful tool. But I also think it could end civilization as we know. No, I'm not.

Regina Marie Rossi

down on our

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Well, you know, deep fakes, for instance, are absolutely horrifically frightening to me, because you can now take someone's likeness and make them say whatever you want. And not everybody is going to understand that it is a deep fake, and I think we'll get to the point where they're so advanced that there's no way that you can tell.

Regina Marie Rossi

I don't know. I'm sad about it all.  Look, you want it to be for the greater good. Can it save a person's life? Are they using it for the right things? But unfortunately, with that comes, it's going to be used for terrible things, right? Also, I'm a very old-fashioned. You always say that I'm the most old-fashioned lady. You're old school. I'm old school, so I just have a hard time.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, I mean, there's Twilight Zone episodes about things that are happening now. We filmed in the 60s. I don't like it. I fear it. If you ask me something, I fear it's technology.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, same. I'm worried because I use chat GPT pretty much every day and I have a tendency to get, I'm like a very nice person.  I don't know why I yell at it so much, but I can't, I can't handle when it hallucinates like how it just makes up answers and I school it. So if it takes over, I'm like on its bad list for sure.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

You know something that really bothers me is that people now use it to write which maybe what you're talking about i'm part of my ignorance i actually don't know what you were just chat gbt.

Regina Marie Rossi

But we can tell when our vendors are using it because we know what they used to sound like, and then all of a sudden we get- I know what they sound like. What, and I, but I, as part of an artist, like, I want them to be authentic, and it's okay that they don't sound like a genius. That's the part of the realness.  And so, all of a sudden everybody's starting to sound the same, right? And I'm like, yeah, and I'm like, this isn't this person talking. I know it's not, and I want to hear it in their voice. It's much more interesting and authentic.

Melanie Avalon

hopefully it will just further increase the value of everything you're dealing with because people hopefully people are going to be really searching for authenticity and like real physical stuff

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I think people always will be. And I think that there's, there are a lot of ways that AI can help us as a society, but I think that it can also hurt us.  So I hope that it doesn't take over the art world. And I don't think we'll allow it to. And you know, I'll still always celebrate the old classic.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, we'll keep it real over here.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. What did you think when NFTs came out?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

You got so pissed off like you don't even know. I bet.

Regina Marie Rossi

and we had people even coming to us asking us to be a part of it and we're like absolutely not and we should have oh my god

Ryan Matthew Cohn

shouldn't have. Yes, we should have. We could have become millionaires, but we were too authentic to do it.  You know, like all those people that bought an empty is lost all their money. So like good riddance.

Melanie Avalon

I thought it would do better than it did.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

My friend, I have a good friend in Los Angeles, and he's like the biggest pothead I've ever met. So everything he says, I'm like, this guy's just on like some weird pot conversation right now.  And he was trying every like, oh, this is gonna be, this is gonna change society, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, dude, you're selling photographs. You're selling something that I'm posting on Instagram so that someone can own it. And that's all it is, is just like an image. Now, I'm jealous that I didn't become rich off of it. Hell yeah. I know a lot of artists that made hundreds of thousands of dollars off of NFTs, but as you can see now, they're absolutely worthless, so.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, it just seems so disconnected from reality. I'm not a fan. I'm curious when you sat down, what made you decide to write the book?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

You know.

Regina Marie Rossi

long time coming it was

Ryan Matthew Cohn

long time coming. And we had been approached by a bunch of different publishers over the years to create a book. And for one reason or another, it wasn't the right time, or didn't work out, or we just didn't want it to, or, you know, go with the direction that they were, they were going.  And it wasn't until we started talking with a literary agent that he was like, you know, I think, I think it would be great for you guys to tell your story. Or, you know, tell your stories or tales on the road. Well, Chronicle ended up coming to us because they really liked the idea. And I was actually opposed to it. I said, No, Regina was the visionary behind all this, because I always thought like, Come on, we need a coffee table, but people want to see the collection were a visual brand. But people, well, I think they're, you know, there's some Amazon reviews where people are like, Oh, this is not Yeah, there's a book of words, not photos. Well, we did that was

Melanie Avalon

I was reading, I read that exact review and I was like, isn't a book words? I'm confused. Yeah. Well.

Regina Marie Rossi

And it's true because a lot of people do look at Ryan like it's all with vision, right? So we got that but it's too easy to do a coffee table.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

you could put out a coffee table book tomorrow. It'd be very easy.

Regina Marie Rossi

So to me, pretentious to start off with a $100 book, like to meet our audience and they're the ones that have gotten us to where we're at, you don't start off like running the oddities flea market and supporting local and small businesses and then cut out a $100 beautiful book to me. It just wasn't right.  Like you start off with an entry level book that we can sell at our oddities flea markets. It celebrates all of the people that have gotten us to where we are, right? And I thought that was just such a more interesting way to introduce us. Like, this is who we are. Now, are we ready to do a coffee table book? Yeah.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

be good to lay down the groundwork of, you know, and I think teach people a little bit about what goes into being like how we are. We're not a traditional couple.  We don't run a traditional lifestyle. And while we become very desensitized to it, other people tend to find it interesting. And I hope people did.

Regina Marie Rossi

And also, you don't have to define everything about your life like we still don't know what we do. Like it's the hardest question of our lives when somebody asks us what we do for a living.  We don't know. Like why?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

long windy dance.

Regina Marie Rossi

Well, that's the thing. One thing doesn't generally have to define you.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, now we can just hand them the book. Here, read this and then get back to me.

Melanie Avalon

I love it. Would you include, if you did a coffee table book, would you include dolls in it?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, I would. Well, I would do a whole chapter on dolls because when you really, really whittle down the collection, I would say a good 50% of it could be construed as dolls. Okay.

Regina Marie Rossi

including your mannequins. Yeah, a mannequin.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Vatican is a doll.

Regina Marie Rossi

get that. But the audience, I play with my manic. I'm sure you do.

Melanie Avalon

Wait, Regina, wasn't your haunted story, did it involve a hand or the one in your dressing room? That was also a doll? Yeah.

Regina Marie Rossi

was it? No, it's a new work of an artist. Marina Givens. Yeah, in California. And it's a wax piece that we had purchased at one of our own events in Los Angeles.  And it made its way back home. And it's in a glass dome. And it looks like a wax hand with a beautiful eye in the center. And somehow it ended up in my boudoir. And once again, it had been there for years, years. And one day, like I was just getting dressed like any other ordinary day. And I was having a struggle with my zipper. And the way my boudoir is located, it's connected to the library. And that's where Ryan pretty much hangs out most of the time. And we have one of those like, short dividers in the entranceway. So you can kind of poke your head over to see the other person. And so that's kind of where I was changing. And so all of a sudden, I just felt what we called a helping hand. Someone helped me zip up the zipper. And I turned around and be like, Oh, my God, thank you. And there was nobody standing there. And then the only thing I'm looking at is the hands that was on the shelf directly at my eye level. And then I start yelling, Ryan, Ryan, I'm like screaming, Ryan, and he's now answering me from a completely different floor. And then I was like, I don't even know what to say. I'm not even sure if I'm going to tell him it. And I actually didn't tell you right for like a while.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

You told me like later on that night.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, it was like something that I just couldn't wrap my brain around because I am a very science person. I'm not someone who even maybe even believes in paranormal. Like I still have a hard time. I'm always trying to figure out what something could have really been, right?  Like the dolls. Nope, it was a dog that did it. Like we're always trying to figure out the science behind it, but there was no explanation. And to this day, I can still feel what it felt like when the zipper went up. It was like a little draft of a hand.

Melanie Avalon

and you still have the hand there.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, and I've asked Ryan to remove it and you haven't and it's just been there. You love it.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

really cool piece.

Regina Marie Rossi

It is a really, I'm not saying it's not a piece, it's never bothered me ever again.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

going to say in that instance it actually helped you so it wasn't a negative spirit if it was one.

Regina Marie Rossi

100%.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

you're right. If anything, I wish it would do more.

Regina Marie Rossi

I could use the help from other areas. Yeah, exactly.

Melanie Avalon

I love it. I'm curious when you were writing the book I love like the creative process and everything and so working with your editor and the publisher Was there anything you wanted to include that they were like not about or?  No

Regina Marie Rossi

opposite.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, they were sort of like, like egging us on a little bit more like hey, we add another chapter is like there's any other stories and we would and we I think we only deleted stuff because the book started getting, you know, past the page limit.

Melanie Avalon

Are there any Easter eggs in it?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Easter eggs!

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. Oh, do you know, do you know what Easter eggs are? Apparently not.  Like basically it's where you put in little things that are like secret little nods that only somebody who really, really knew you would pick up. Oh yeah, I did.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, there's a couple but I can't even say yeah, you can't

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, I did it personally. I did one. Yeah, Virginia.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

It has like a little jab in there.

Regina Marie Rossi

I do I have a job. Okay, somebody like I think I quoted something I made a joke about a quote, because it was something that somebody said to me.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Leave it at that.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah. And I never got over it. So I had to use it as therapy. I wrote it in my book. It's validating.

Melanie Avalon

I'm laughing, cathartic.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

To this day, and you know, sometimes when people like ask a very similar question, we laugh to ourselves because like, we got the last laugh.

Melanie Avalon

Right, exactly. That's amazing.  And then the live events you do. So people, they can get your book. How can people actually, if they wanna like do this and like see this work in real life, what are things that you put on? Like events and the antique show and everything.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

The next thing we have coming up right away is the outsider art fair where I'll have several of my works on display and that show is really, really cool.

Regina Marie Rossi

It's in New York City.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, it's it's all art of people that are like, you know, technically untrained and it's older works modern works and very high end very high end very obscure and it's kind of an honor to be part of it this year.  We are well, Tuesday, we're headed to Paris to do a book signing at our favorite store in Paris, which is day roll. And we talked about day roll in the book, I believe, because it was one of the places that always inspired me as a collector and we're actually doing a book signing there. So just, you know, little personal feet, we've been to day roll a million times but for them to ask us to do something that was really quite precious.

Regina Marie Rossi

Then the oddities flea markets, I usually do four a year and they kick off in the spring. So actually, well, the end of March is our first oddities flea market of the year.  And that'll be San Diego, which is a new city for us. And then the beginning of May, we have Chicago and then we always do Los Angeles in October. And we always end the year in New York City, the first weekend of December, usually.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

And then I sell at Brimfield antique shows in May. That's the show I always do.  So if anyone ever wanted to buy something from me on the East Coast, that's the place to do it. And of course we have our website and people.

Regina Marie Rossi

event page. So you could just direct anyone interested to the odditiespleamarket.com hit the events page and we have everything going on.

Melanie Avalon

Perfect and I'm so sad I was asking you so Atlanta is not a good place for the events you're doing

Ryan Matthew Cohn

No, it is. We just haven't ended up there.  You know, I think our problem is that we only have so much time in a year to do these shows. There's other conventions that do one every single weekend, but ours are very, very curated. They take time to promote. And so we only do four, sometimes five a year.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, but you said there's like rules about selling stuff here, maybe.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Yeah, well, you can't sell bones in Atlanta.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, bones, can't sell bones. That's really interesting.

Regina Marie Rossi

Joystar.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

in Georgia, yeah.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah, I think there's like four states.

Melanie Avalon

Interesting. I want to do an episode on like weird laws and rules everywhere. I think there'll be really fast waiting.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

you in touch with someone who's sort of an expert on that.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, really? Oh, I would love that. That'd be amazing. Yes.  So listeners, friends, this was so, so fascinating. As you can see, definitely get the witch's door. It is a riveting tale. You will learn so much. Check out the shows and the event page. We'll put all that in the show notes.  Was there anything else you guys wanted to touch on? What are you most excited about? What are you most looking forward to?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

it not being freezing out so that we start to enjoy the outdoors again. Much of what we do is traveling and you know sometimes in the winter we try to go somewhere like slightly warmer, sometimes in the summer we try to go somewhere kind of cooler and we're always traveling around doing things but I feel like in the winter we're always kind of stuck here so when it gets warm that means we can be on the move more.

Regina Marie Rossi

Yeah. And then for me, it's just finding I really, really am just pushing Ryan to find the right location and the right time to put on an exhibition that would mostly be showcasing.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

the Richard Harris collection. Yeah, I want to do an expose on basically like the art of death and showing off the historic collection that we possess.

Melanie Avalon

Well, thank you both so much. The last question I ask every single guest on this show, and it's just because I realize more and more each day how important mindset is.  So what is something that you're grateful for? Oh gosh.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I'm grateful for you, Regina.

Regina Marie Rossi

Well, I mean, I'm grateful for you because for two people to both find each other and both literally be black sheep to completely understand each other to be able to work together. I don't know. There's I mean, how often does that happen?

Ryan Matthew Cohn

It doesn't mean that we don't fight like cats and dogs, but the appreciation level and the trust and love that goes into, you know, having your other half next to you, it's very important. And I hope that other people, well, we have a lot.

Regina Marie Rossi

of fun. We have a lot of fun together. It's true.

Melanie Avalon

You're inspiring me so much. I'm my friends know this.  I'm not a big I'm not normally in like romantic relationships or things like that It's always felt like it would be that I might lose my Sense of self or something you guys are so inspiring. I'm like, this is amazing. I need to have a partnership like this. It comes with time

Regina Marie Rossi

that's at the end. We're complete weirdos.  Like we always say to each other, oh my god, who else could ever deal with us? Like if we even try to imagine being with somebody else, we'll joke around and be like, nobody could deal with you.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

Can you imagine going on a date with someone with really strange I have like just like I wonder how this would go if like I had to like sit go on like one of these dating stuff. Yeah, go on like a blind date.

Regina Marie Rossi

love pretending.

Ryan Matthew Cohn

I have like a human or no, I have like an animal penis bone collection To see someone's face would be really interesting. I'd have to date inside of my pool. I think yeah

Regina Marie Rossi

Yes. Good luck.

Melanie Avalon

Well, thank you guys so much. This has been one of the most fun episodes I've done and I was looking forward to it for so, so long and you guys are just awesome. So thank you.  Thank you. It's been a blast. You're awesome. Well, thank you. Have a good rest of your day and I will talk to you later. Bye.