The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #266 - Brandy Gillmore

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon:
Hi friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation I am about to have. It is with a fantastic guest who wrote an incredible book and is doing incredible work when it comes to actually healing yourself. Partly, I say partly because we'll talk about the nuances involving your mind to heal yourself, but not just your mind. There's so much beyond that. Basically, the backstory is when I was pitched for Brandy Gillmore for her book, Master Your Mind and Energy to Heal Your Body, You Can Be Your Own Cure. I was so intrigued by the title and the concept and had glowing endorsements by so many incredible people. We were talking before this. Dr. Perlmutter writes the foreword and he's been on the show a few times. I was really, really excited to dive in. I was also pretty curious because there's definitely a lot of approaches and work out there when it comes to using your mind to heal your body. It's really interesting to see which direction that will go. Friends, I was blown away by this book. First of all, Brandy has an incredible story, which I'm sure she will share on the show about her own crazy health crisis that she had to the point where she was in a wheelchair and in deliberating pain. She was able to finally, after trying, quote, all the things, heal herself when she had an epiphany about, we're going to talk about this, but an epiphany about what is actually happening with energy in our bodies, specifically something called biophotons and how you can actually use your mind to heal your body. What I really, really loved about this book is not only is there the science and an overview of what's happening with a lot of these chronic conditions where people just can't seem to heal, but she also has a program that is very, very practical. It provides the actual techniques and steps and what to actually do to heal yourself. I was going through and reading a lot of the Amazon reviews, which I always read the Amazon reviews of books before shows. There was not a single negative review. Every single review was overwhelmingly glowing. A lot of people who have worked with her and the common theme was people were just talking about how incredibly practical this is that you can actually do this, and then they were sharing their stories. I have so many questions. Randy, I am already obsessed with everything that you're doing. Thank you so much for being here.

Brandy Gillmore:
Thank you so much Melanie it's such a pleasure to connect with you I love your heart I love what you do and saying thank you so much for having me.

Melanie Avalon:
So I have so many questions for you, but to start things off, can you tell listeners a little bit about that personal journey that I referenced that you went on, you know, the accident that you had where you ended up health wise and, you know, the, like, how did you, how did you heal yourself? Like, did you have an epiphany someday? Like, what, what was the turning point?

Brandy Gillmore:
I mean, there were so many, but I have to start by saying literally, if somebody told me that I was gonna heal using my mind, I would have thought that they were crazy or they didn't understand that my situation and accident and all of this stuff. And one turning point was this, that was pivotal, was the awareness that people with multiple personality disorder can have different illnesses in different personalities. And I was like, wait a second here. I mean, they can have high blood pressure in one personality, but not another pain or seizures, headaches, all kinds of things in one personality, but not in another personality. And they can even have a personality that's healthy. And what was also really mind-blowing was that it was consistent, meaning that like if personality Jane has high blood pressure and then maybe Mary in the same physical body has normal blood pressure, but high blood sugar or pain. So it was interesting that mindset, that the same personality had the same illness and that it was consistent and that it can switch on a dime. And that was one of the things that was mind-blowing to me, so that was a pivotal place just that really started illustrating the power of the mind for me.

Melanie Avalon:
Does conventional medicine have an answer for that?

Brandy Gillmore:
No, I mean, even when I was researching, no, and it's written throughout the medical journals, and there was even a woman who was blind in some personalities and not in others. That is crazy. Isn't it? Yeah. And when you stop and think about it, we know the power of the mind is, I mean, is everywhere. I mean, placebo, that has been proven time and time again. So we know that there's this mind-body connection thing going on, or even stress impacting the physical body, or even if you think about a stroke where somebody can have a brain injury and it then can paralyze the physical body. So we can see there is a definite brain-body connection. And so we can see evidence of it everywhere. And, but going through my own injury, so kind of you asked, you know, about my story. Basically, I used to do network engineering operations, had an accident over 21 years ago now, ended up literally went from living a full life to wheelchair, walker, cane, an absolute mess. And my doctor's saying there was nothing they could do for me, and it was my life. And I mean, I was just beside myself. Like, how do I even do this? I mean, on a good day, I could get around using my wheelchair, walker, or cane. On a bad day, I didn't make it out of bed. I was in so much pain, and I had a lot of really bad days. And, you know, I did all the things, the diet, the supplements, literally the biochemistry, the everything that I could do to try to get my body to heal itself and taking supplements and increasing different, you know, triggering different biochemical responses in my body, just all of the things, and it wasn't working. And that's what made me really start trying to figure out what else could work, and I went down this journey of exploring the mind and energy and what was true. And it was just like the studies with multiple personality disorder. I just continued to find one thing after another that was eye-opening.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, this is so, so crazy. And just while we're talking about like the multiple personality thing, another example you shared in the book that I thought was fascinating was the police officers who had different forms of back pain based on, was it based on like their career, like what they were doing in their job? Different emotions.

Brandy Gillmore:
Yeah, that's what I started looking at also is I thought, okay, well, how can we see that the mind affects the physical body? Because I just started simplifying things. And exactly that, you know, if somebody's embarrassed, their face turns red, or sexual thoughts, sexual physical response or panic attack, racing heart shortness of breath. And so I started just looking at all of the simple ways that we could see that the mind affects the physical body. And even emojis know that on our cell phone, you know, there's a little blushing face emoji. And but when you look at it on a serious note, I mean, somebody can literally die of a broken heart, or be scared to death, they're so scared, their heart stops, or even research even shows that stress can actually like research suggests that stress can actually cause autoimmune conditions or it's there's just all of these links.

Melanie Avalon:
Why do you think so you have this, you know, realization, but like you just said, you've been trying all the things I'm assuming some of that involved positive thinking and emotion work as well. So what was different? How did you actually make a change?

Brandy Gillmore:
One of the things, I had just so many insights along the way, but initially when I was working with the mind, I said, okay, well, it seems like it's all about belief. You hear about the placebo and a lot of times people will say, well, it works because you believe it does. So for more than a year, likely even longer, I'm not good at time, go through my injury because when you don't care what day it was and you're not sleeping and you have nothing to look forward to, it's really hard to gauge time and when you don't want to know how much of your life is passing you by, that's where I was and I was just trying to figure it out. So I went into this trying to believe and affirmations and convincing myself and all of the things, visualizing, seeing myself already healed, just trying to force myself to believe I was already healed and it wasn't working. And then I found something called the open label placebo, which is exactly like it sounds. It is open label. So both the doctor and the patient both know it's fake and it still works and I was kind of like, mind blown, like, wait a second, this can't be all about belief, it still works. So that was pivotal. And then I was doing the binaural beats and the frequencies and the meditations and all of that stuff and I was doing it for years, I mean more than five years trying all of the things. And there was so many different epiphanies, but I think one that became crystal clear after it wasn't working and of course I could have, you know, ups and downs where I'd go into meditations and visualize and relax and I could get my paint down and then it would come back and, you know, no matter what I did, it wasn't healing and I was doing it for like hours and hours and hours a day and then I had this epiphany and several of them, but one of which was this, is I thought, well, how long do I have to meditate to get the mind body healing to work? And I thought about it and I thought about the placebo and I said, well, wait, if somebody takes the placebo, how long do they have to meditate to get the placebo to work? Well, they don't, they just can take a pill or a fake treatment. And then I thought about multiple personality disorder and I thought, well, how long does a person with multiple personality disorder need to meditate to get that to work? Well, they don't, it happens instantly as soon as they switch personalities. And so it made me realize that the mind body mechanism, that mind body healing mechanism did not depend on meditation. And so when I started to look at it that way and then I said, well, okay, meditation then could be a vehicle, like just like if I want to travel from California to New York, I could take planes, trains and automobiles to get there. How do I want to get there? And when I started thinking about the awareness that I had been meditating for years and years and years and had not healed and here were people with multiple personality disorder who could go in and out of, you know, of illness and get much faster results, it really started to dawn on me that there seemed to be a faster way to really activate that mind body connection than just the meditation. And so that's, it really made me start pivoting my direction and started thinking about things in a different way.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, this is so fascinating. I have a question about the open label placebo setup. It's a really small nuance, but I'm really curious about the implications. When they do those trials, do they tell the people this is a placebo so it shouldn't work, or do they tell the people this is a placebo so it shouldn't work, but sometimes it works?

Brandy Gillmore:
Exactly. So the first one was done back in like 1965. So it's been around for a long period of time. And it was researchers from Johns Hopkins. And basically what the researchers did is they had kind of the gist of the script was, this is a placebo. It's not technically, it was something like, you know, it's not really supposed to work. But some people have taken it before, and they've gotten some results. And so we want to give this to you to also try. And what was interesting is that afterwards, a lot of people in that study, so the majority of people had some type of improvement. But when they asked why some people in the study thought it was a real treatment, and they were just tricked, and it was a real treatment, some people thought it wasn't the treatment at all that did it. And some people thought it was just like each one of them thought something different, that it wasn't a real pill, it was just, you know, it just happened, they got better. So everybody had a different take on it. But there's more and more of the research being done on the open label placebo. So it's just, it's funny, and it's interesting. But what was fascinating further is that, you know, a lot of times from the placebo itself, people don't necessarily have lasting results or healing results, it usually can help with their symptoms. So it does take more. But you can at least see the mind body connection there that it can trigger the release of by of positive biochemistry, it can actually help to, you know, release dopamine. And so there are there are effects that it can have physical effects, but it usually doesn't produce actual physical healing results. And so but of course, there's you can see evidence of the mind body connection. For people who it didn't work, did they find a theme? There hasn't been any studies that have been conclusive on that. So there haven't, you know, when I look at it, and really, if we stop and look at it for a moment, this is what what is a big part of the placebo. If you think about the things that actually produce results. One thing is this is in placebo studies, the doctor patient relationship matters. So I would say one thing has to do, of course, with human connection. And I would say another thing has to do with optimism. You know, if you have something to look forward to, that can definitely impact our health. And I mean, where somebody is out of surgery, if a person is more optimistic, then they can have much faster healing. And conversely, if somebody is in fear or negativity, they, their healing is slower, they also have much higher rates of re hospitalization and complication. And so optimism in general, even studies on with wounds and burns and whatnot, just any type of studies have shown that if somebody's optimistic, he can also even speed up cellular proliferation. And so there's, and I mean, there's so much about optimism. For example, another study is has shown that people who are more optimistic can actually live 15% longer. Another study out of Harvard has shown that feelings of emotional vitality, so feeling more positive can actually reduce coronary heart disease by about 50%. Now, why is that important? Obviously, heart disease is a leading number one leading cause of death. And so we can see just even feelings of optimism in general, can have a profound impact on the physical body. So I would say there's optimism, there's human connection, there's positive expectation. And so I would say there's different, there's an emotional component that is very connected to the placebo.

Melanie Avalon:
Question about the optimism. What is the role of how much you actually feel it versus telling yourself you're trying to be optimistic? Because I feel like there feel like there's a difference between people who just are optimistic and then people who decide that they're going to be optimistic and positive and they like say all the things but they don't actually feel it inside.

Brandy Gillmore:
I love you. You are so spot on. That is something that I see all of the time. And so even not only is it where a person can do exactly that, they can tell themselves they're optimistic, but a person can also have an incongruent optimism and expectation. And so like, even in my book, that's I write it as positive expectation and optimism, because what can happen is this simple example is, let's say there's a woman who is very optimistic about falling in love and finding a wonderful relationship. So she's really optimistic, but then she expects that Oh, he'll probably cheat or it won't work out or relationships never work. And so optimism and expectation are not aligned. And so when I really see it work is exactly that is when a person has positive expectation and optimism. Now, that's not the full picture, because we've all seen somebody before who is optimistic and excited about life and looking forward to life. And then it sabotages they end up with a health issue or whatnot. So there's other complications to it. But I would say that definitely optimism is a key piece or can be a key piece.

Melanie Avalon:
So can people, if they want to be optimistic, but aren't or think they are, but aren't, can you like fake it till you make it type thing? Like if you pretend to be optimistic, will you become optimistic?

Brandy Gillmore:
You know, I would say that it is more, that you would need to be more specific than that in my experience. And what I mean is this, is that like in my own life, I was not optimistic when I was in my worst place. I was in a really bad place. I was injured, I was in fear, and that's what was real. I was, I mean, my whole life, I felt like my whole life, like I lost my whole life and it was a mess and it just kept getting worse and everything was falling apart. And I was there for years and I wasn't getting better. And I would say, you know, a few things. I mean, optimism to just heal wasn't enough. I mean, I had taken supplements or done diets or treatments that I thought, oh my gosh, surely this is going to work. And it didn't. So it wasn't just the belief and the positive expectation. It did take more than that. But I would also say that, you know, there was so much fear as well. So what I had to do is I really had to program it in and feel it genuinely. So I really felt that feeling of excitement towards life. And I started really programming that in. And at first, I mean, it wasn't real at all. At first, it was just, you know, trying to access the feeling. And the more that I was able to get into the feeling and program it in, the more that I started getting it in my nervous system. And one way that I did that to kind of give you an idea is I kind of, I started hacking the process. And ultimately, you know, as I was there, injured, wheelchair, walker, cane, an absolute mess and in fear and all of these things. I mean, just frustrated and just, you know, in a really bad spot. And I thought about, okay, I need to reprogram my mind, but it wouldn't have made sense to really, like, for example, if we think about reprogramming the mind, we think about the alphabet. How do we do that? We get the alphabet in over and over and over again, and we can program it in. Or if we're going to learn French, then we get it in over and over and over, and then we can learn French. So we need repetition. And for me to repeatedly access feelings of optimism over and over and over and over to get in when I was in such a bad state wouldn't have been realistic. And so what I started doing is what I call, it's like a neuro transformational music technique, which is basically transforming my neural pathways. So I started listening to music, but not just like a happy playlist, not bad, but I would listen to a song, and I would literally focus on amplifying my emotions as much as I could. And the first one I did was Beautiful Day by U2. And it was this feeling that it's a beautiful day, don't let it slip away, which at the time, all I had wanted to do was slip away. I was in this really bad state. And I was like, okay, it's a beautiful day, don't let it slip away. And so I would listen to the song, and I would literally immerse myself in it and purposely, not like listening to a happy song, I would purposely do everything I could to amplify the emotions as strong as I possibly could to feel the feeling from that song. It's a beautiful day, don't let it slip away. And what was great is that even research has shown that if you listen to music and you can reach states of euphoria, then it can also trigger dopamine and you can have a biochemical response. And so not only was I bringing in this emotion as strong as I possibly could, but then I was also starting to create more of a biochemical response. And so it started getting easier and easier. And so I started basically doing things to hack mind programming to create a radical shift in my brain, if that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon:
Yes, it does. And I loved your neuro transformational music technique because I was reading and I was like, this is what I have done historically. So I, I have this really random morning routine, but whatever thing I'm focusing on, I guess, emotionally at that time, I'll have a song and I'll play it every morning and I turn on my red light and I, I like it's kind of like ceremonial, but I will listen to the song and there's always like certain parts of it that I align with, you know, being in front of my red light device and I just experienced the emotional feeling of all of it. It looks probably very ritualistic, but reading your part about the music, I was like, this makes me feel so much better for, you know, just what I've done historically with music and how powerful I find it for me personally changing and affecting my emotions.

Brandy Gillmore:
I love that. It's brilliant. I don't know how else I would have started to access these emotions repeatedly because there would have been no way for me to repeatedly access these emotions. And of course, I also had to do release techniques and rewiring the mind and all of these things, but it was so helpful to hack the process and start getting them. So I love that. And I love your red light setup and all of that. That's brilliant.

Melanie Avalon:
It makes it so, because you like feel it in your body from the light, which we can, oh, we got to talk about bio photons sort of, sort of related to light. I forgot about this. So I went through sort of a dark time of my own when I, it's funny, I really resonated with me. I think you were saying, at one part in your book, you were saying that you looked back and you never thought, like you didn't think you were depressed, but looking back, you, you feel like that was, you know, what was happening. And I have a similar thing. Like I went through a point of time where I did not identify as depressed and I still don't, but looking back, I'm like, well, all my actions kind of seemed like that. But during that point in time, I remember I would not listen to music because I didn't feel deserving of feeling emotions, essentially. So I would just listen to like podcasts and research and I was like, I can't listen to emotions because it's already to music because it's such a different emotional state that I can't be in because music pulls you into that emotional state.

Brandy Gillmore:
It does. That reminds me of kind of multiple things. So many things. I mean, one, there was this part in my journey where I didn't want to like my brain and it was like on this automatic wanting to find an exit strategy. So somebody would be driving me to the hospital and in my head I would be thinking, well, I wonder on the freeway if I could just open the door and fall out and end it. And then also like the trash truck would drive by and I would literally think, could I get my wheelchair and push myself in front of it and end it all? And then people will say something like, so you were suicidal. I'm like, no, I don't call it suicidal. It was like my brain runs on autopilot trying to find an exit strategy. So I relate to that so well in that even when they said, you know, you're depressed. I'm like, I'm not depressed. If I wasn't injured, I wouldn't have this problem. I'm not depressed. I have a problem. And it was like, you know, when you feel like there's a problem that you can't solve, it's, you know, yeah. So it was so I just exactly like I wouldn't have identified as being depressed. I had a problem. And so kind of funny how that works. But even to that point, also during my injury, when I was going through it, like the first year I was just trying to check out and watch TV and just pass by time so I could, you know, you wait for the next appointment and the next doctor's appointment. And I was waiting for the person who would fix me. And obviously it didn't happen. And then one after another, they kept saying, there's nothing else we can do for you. There's nothing else we can do for you. And then and then I got to this point where I couldn't even watch TV anymore because I felt like I was I would just cry out and I'm not a crier ever. But I would just felt like I was watching everybody else live their life. And I couldn't live mine. And it was really hard. So it's it's just, you know, when we go through these phases or not like challenging times and it's like getting getting ourselves out of it is definitely it takes it takes really needing to, you know, get it together and do it, I guess is just, you know, figure it out. Hack the process.

Melanie Avalon:
I was the same as well. I stopped watching movies. I stopped watching TV. I would pretty much just watch on repeat scenes from The Lion King where Simba's having to confront his past. I would just cry. I'd watch Let It Go from Frozen. Good times. Good times. Speaking of light, what did you discover about biophotons?

Brandy Gillmore:
You know Incredible. Okay. So I know a lot of times I know me personally You know when I got introduced to everything with the mind and I just researching you hear things about energy and you know 20 plus years ago, I thought it was just all woo-woo and I know a lot of people even think you know Maybe energy is just woo-woo. But what was fascinating is it was actually discovered by a medical scientist also about a hundred years ago and and He was nominated for the Nobel Prize 11 times and actually won similar to the Nobel Prize in Russia for his discovery and it's amazing that here we are a hundred years later and most people don't even know that and To even build on that there is a database. That's a modern-day database under the NASA agreement that is maintained by Harvard and the Smithsonian and there are studies even in this database on biophotons this energy of the body and most people don't even realize that we have this energy of the body or how incredible it is So that to me was just another piece of the puzzle that was mind-blowing

Melanie Avalon:
that NASA database. It's just like lots of studies and then and there they have studies about biophotons.

Brandy Gillmore:
Exactly. It's like an astrophysics database and it's got all different types of, it's like a collection of all different types of studies, but it also has studies on biophotons in it. And just the awareness that when you stop and think about it, it's incredible that our bodies emit this light energy. And kind of a simple way to think about biophotons is if we think about, you know, a light bulb that emits particles of light or the sun emits particles of light and our bodies emit these very, you know, invisible particles of light. And what's fascinating is that research has been able to show that different illnesses can actually emit different biophotons. So cancerous cells emit different biophotons than non-cancerous cells or people with type 2 diabetes emit different patterns of biophotons than somebody who does not have type 2 diabetes. And so, so many things. I mean, also biophotons have been shown to be able to influence cellular proliferation. And the simple way to think about cell proliferation is this, is that if we imagine dish soap, you know, if we pour water on dish soap, it grows and divides. Like it bubbles up, right? It expands. And so similarly, cellular proliferation is cells growing and dividing and proliferating. And so when we heal a wound or any type of, you know, illness or even aging, but cell proliferation is a key part of healing and maintaining health. And so this light energy has the ability to influence cell proliferation. And I mean, there's just so many fascinating things. Also, research suggests that it can actually communicate information throughout the body, including things like homeostasis. And, and so when we stop and think about it, it is profound. And one of the things that made me also really start looking at biophotons is I wondered how communication was happening in the body, meaning this, meaning that if one person takes the placebo, and they're told that it can help their IBS irritable bowel syndrome, then it can. And if another person takes the exact same pill, and they're told it can help their Parkinson's symptoms, it can. Or if another person takes it, and they're told it can have a negative side effect, it could cause a headache or whatnot, or a rash or whatnot, it could. And I thought, well, wait a second here. How is this communication happening? And so that also made me want to understand energy of the body and biophotons. And I know for some people, the idea that light could actually communicate information throughout the body sound may sound odd, except for if we think about cell phones or Wi-Fi.

Melanie Avalon:
I was just going to say that it's like texting.

Brandy Gillmore:
Exactly. That's the reason you can get a text message on the other side of the world at the speed of light.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. What is the role of... So, you know, clearly, you were having these ideas about biophotons affecting healing and our perception or our emotion affecting that and playing a role. What is the role that we do heal, though, seemingly, regardless of if we think about it or not? Just for, like, typical things. If you, like, get a cut, like, I don't have to think about that cut to make it heal. It'll still heal. So, how much, like, how much of healing do you think is influenced by it'll just do it on its own automatic programming versus us needing to think about it or our emotions and thoughts affecting it?

Brandy Gillmore:
Well, if you think about it, though, even people who are stressed, even like wound healing where they've actually done studies where they'll give somebody like a chemical burn where they put, you know, chemical on their arm and it creates a burn and then they've had people who you know, they'll study their emotional patterns and people who are more stressed or in more anger or frustration even can have slower wound healing just from that And so what it all came down to even with bio photons What was fascinating is that research shows that our own minds have the ability to shift this light energy And that's what was fascinating also people who have anger they could have increased bio photon emissions And so that that was kind of the correlation between the mind body and and bio photons But what I started doing is just saying okay. Look I have all this information you can see the mind body connection What can I do with it? And so I just started simplifying it and I said, okay If we can see that emotions affect the physical body somebody's embarrassed their face turns red or panic attack racing heart shortness of breath or even somebody can be scared to death or die of a broken heart What about other emotions like what are they doing? that we don't see and That was part of the key was I started looking at exactly that. Well, what about other emotions? And I would say another key was this Is that I started to look at it objectively and I said, okay. Well, wait a second here. There are people who are very stressed Who aren't sick and there are people who are seemingly less stressed who are How does that work? And what I began to put together and realize Was that it had to do with the combination of emotions that that was the key And a simple way to think about it is like if somebody wants to make cake and they have flour Then they can't make cake But if they have flour and they mix it with other ingredients now they can make cake and if they change the ingredients now they make a completely different recipe And what I began to figure out was that's how it was possible With somebody with multiple personality disorder to have different illnesses in different personalities and even personalities that didn't have any illness at all Is because every time they switch to a different personality There's a different emotional recipe that's taking place and so That's what I started doing is I started really understanding That there were a combination of emotions now a simple way to think about it We already talked about one combination which or one emotion, which is optimism. That can be one ingredient But another ingredient for example could be the self image So if somebody has been had an injury or even sees themselves as being like a parent who has been ill Then they start to put it it's in their self image that They're sick And so they may continue to manifest over and over, you know, the continued illness or more illnesses And so when you said, you know, what if somebody has an injury and then they don't heal? You know where one person does or one person doesn't you know That is one piece of the pie is that somebody might be injured and then they start to see themselves as being somebody who's injured And that can affect them. Another example is this is that even the surgeon general last year Released an entire report on loneliness that loneliness can increase illness And so that's another piece and loneliness was connected to you know increased stroke increased chance of type 2 diabetes Coronary heart disease and so we can see all these emotional connections And so that's ultimately what I started doing is looking at what specific emotions Like what are the specific ingredients and then changing them and it may seem Too simple, but basically what I did is after I healed myself I thought people are not going to believe this is even possible. And so I started doing it under medical equipment So you can actually see Under a scan and I even had studies case studies published in a medical journal last year Because you know, I know that I know me personally I would have thought this is impossible And yet time and time again i've shown that even under medical equipment you can see radical changes using the mind

Melanie Avalon:
First of all, congrats on having that published. That's amazing. So I'm having a little bit of a related, connected epiphany. I'm prepping another interview right now for a book called Burnout Immunity. And she's talking about what causes burnout. But what reminds me about it is you were saying how people can be different levels of stress. People can be stressed and they're not getting sick. The study for her that was her epiphany moment about why people get, quote, burnout in their jobs. The common factor for resilience was emotional intelligence. So it didn't matter. It actually didn't matter how stressed the people were, but how emotionally intelligent were there. So could they regulate their emotions and everything? And so I feel like that's so interesting. And it relates to what you're saying, where basically there are these different emotions, but it's not just that simple. It's not just the emotions. There's something else beyond it, be it the combination of the emotions or how are we able to handle and regulate those emotions.

Brandy Gillmore:
Exactly, but and I would say that it goes even beyond like, there's a few things where it goes even beyond regulating emotions in my experience. And this is what I would say it's kind of like this part of what mine had to do it. So I've always been, I would have said that I've always been very happy. I've always been somebody who's I didn't grow up an emotional household. Like if I remembered the one time my mother cried growing up, like it just so it was kind of like corporate world. Leave your emotions at the door. So I would say that that what happens a lot of times when it comes to mind body healing also has to do with subconscious links, things getting miswired. And, for example, in my own journey, one of the things that impacted me that were the events actually of 9/11. And if you had asked me consciously, if those bothered me, I would have said no, I pushed through it. I'm fine. I wasn't even worried about me. And I was worried about other people. But what happened is this is that I used to work in network engineering at the time, network engineering operations. And basically, I was on the phone with people who were in the towers at the time when the plane hit. And my colleague is just sitting there, you know, yelling, help me, help me, help me. And then the phone goes down. And it's just quiet. And so there was this, this every part of me just at first, I didn't know, of course, what was going on. But then I saw that, you know, we had in telecommunications, we had televisions on every pillar, not every pillar, but most pillars. Inside the office. And so, you know, I look up and I see on the television, all of the things that are happening in the second place, it was all a mess. And so, but what happened after that was also that, you know, in the time that followed, we were, you know, you probably remember this, but we were in, you know, red zone or orange zone or, you know, for terrorist threat. And so as I was sitting there working and trying to help people at my desk, not only had that first event happened, but I would watch over and over again, on the background, as I was working all day, the footage was playing over and over and over. And so what happened is I ended up getting this feeling of survivor's guilt, and also this like, wanting to die for others and afraid of dying and all of this, these things were in my subconscious mind. Like, I had always been somebody who would push through anything. I mean, before my injury, if I got sick, instead of ever calling in sick to work, I'd grab a bottle of cough syrup and sip on it at my desk. I didn't call sick for anything. And so it took me out, you know, and and so, I mean, I would also say that I've seen people who were on their path to success, making money, doing like making millions, doing great. And then some type of guilt comes up because of something or this, that, the other. And it derails them. And they don't know why. And they're ambitious. They are excited. And they are optimistic about their future. And suddenly, everything's sabotaging. And so I would say that like, guilt can be a piece or subconscious punishment patterns. I mean, there's so many different pieces that can come up, or I've seen people before where they're on their way to success. And they have a subconscious belief that says, you know, if I succeed, people will hate me. Or, you know, or they start feeling guilty about money. I've seen people who, you know, I, who were, you know, let's say in 2008, when the whole thing market, everything crashed, they didn't crash. And then people around them did. So then they started feeling guilty. And then they developed a, an illness because they felt all of this guilt that they were doing well, and everybody else wasn't. So it's, it's so multilayered, just because emotions are multilayered. And so it really does. So I would say in my experience, it's so far beyond regulation. It's also like the things that happen in our subconscious mind when we don't realize it's happening can also like, that's what happened in my case. I hear I was working, doing my job. And this stuff was getting programmed into my mind that I didn't realize was even being programmed into my mind, if that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon:
Completely. And it leads to a question I have for you, which is in the book, you have this, you know, whole program that people can follow and the tools and the tips and the steps. And you're very clear about going in order. And one of the things you talk about is not starting at the beginning with trying to figure out what it was in childhood that is the cause or, you know, the thing in the past. So I'm curious about that. So why should we, so if we do have these subconscious things programmed in from childhood or past events, why, and maybe I'm incorrect if I'm wrong, but why should we not necessarily start with that, like trying to find this specific thing?

Brandy Gillmore:
You are absolutely so right and because if we go more into the negative we can increase the problem and i've seen people do that time and time again exactly that and if we think about it for a moment it's kind of like this is if we think about even the widowhood effect where a senior can lose a spouse and then die right afterwards or somebody who dies of a broken heart unfortunately you know when the emotions are the most intense is when they have the greatest chance of dying and of course not that most people are going to die from their emotions but when there's more stress when there's more of the negativity it can it can affect you and i've seen people where they delve into you know just dive into the negative emotions and it increases their pain and in fact even when i was doing and working with people under medical equipment i can take people and i can show them and coach them to use their own mind and go into the positive and start you know letting go of the negative but go into the positive and go into the positive and you'll literally see the scan turn from red to green as their pain goes away and if i bring like and and if i'm doing that and then i actually take them back into the negative you'll see the scan go back into red and their pain will go up they'll report an increase in their pain and i've done it time and time again so you can see the changes happening

Melanie Avalon:
So is it sort of like if your house is on fire, you got to put out the fire before you figure out why the fire happened? Like address the actual in the moment issue before going in deeper and fixing the subconscious?

Brandy Gillmore:
Yeah, I would also say this if there's so many reasons one is is moving towards it There's so many reason one is this is If we imagine somebody who's having a good day like they're feeling more positive more positive a simple example Let's say somebody goes to take a drink of their water and they're have it and they're happy They go to take a drink of their water and they spill some of it They might spill some on their shirt or whatever and go. Oh, I guess I'll save that for later Like they're might joke around about it. Whereas somebody who's in a bad mood Maybe they go to take a drink and they go and they spill and they go. Oh my gosh It's one thing after another after another So the more we are in a positive state the easier it is to stay out of the negative. That's one The negative emotion, it's kind of like, you know, if somebody's intensely feeling anxiety What can happen if they go more and more and more into the anxiety? What can happen it can trigger a panic attack, you know And and so that's you know, just looking at the basics not only that but if we move towards optimism it's easier to let go of the negative and a simple way to think about it is like this is that if you take it let's say there's a woman who's Really really hurt and feeling upset feel his anger resentment towards her ex and he cheated on her or whatever else And she feels like she's never gonna be loved again. And then I say to her we'll just let the negativity go Well, okay. Nice thought but is that really real? But instead if she's going okay. Well, I have my vision. I really feel like I could have another relationship It's gonna be better than ever. I'm feeling more optimistic. I feel like I feel more optimistic about that And then you say, okay Well, can you let go of the goal hurt and the negativity and really, you know Move into the next and then it's just easier to make an authentic change And that's what has to happen is the change has to be genuine To create real results and and by the way something I want to kind of bring up is When we think about it for a moment, I know that for a lot of people myself included Back when I was injured if somebody had told me that my emotions could heal my body I would have thought are you kidding? I had it. I had an accident. I've had an injury I have real problems and and yet, of course even post surgical studies show that Emotions hugely affect healing even when somebody's been cut open so we can see there's a real real change But one illustration of a way to think about it is like this is, you know all of the time People go to the emergency room because they think they're having maybe a heart attack and then they get there and they realize they're having an actual panic attack and realize that they're even having it because they're disconnected from their emotions and so what I would say is similarly in our lives we have these subconscious emotions that are affecting and connected to the autoimmune condition or the pain or the illness or the tumor all kinds of things and we don't realize that it's connected and The more we realize that there is this mind-body connection and the more we start to use it the more we empower ourselves

Melanie Avalon:
What about the potential of cross-linking positive to negative or thinking things are positive that are negative or thinking things that are negative or positive? The example I'm thinking of is you talk about when you are doing work where you're thinking back to your, you know, childhood things that happen, childhood traumas and such, you specifically say, and this is like so contrary to what I think I've been told by or heard a lot before, which was you say, you're not going to want to hug that small, scared version of yourself. What's going on there?

Brandy Gillmore:
Yeah. Okay. So a simple way to think about it is like this. I think we've all kind of know if a child doesn't get positive attention, they'll get what? Negative attention. Or even another simple example is this. Okay. Have you ever heard before of a child, they get an owie and then an adult comes by and says, oh, let me kiss your owie and make it better. What happens? Love gets linked up to illness. Okay. And so what happens is the mind doesn't know any different, just like, you know, a wedding song. So somebody listens to a wedding song, a song at their wedding and then becomes their wedding song. And then every time they hear it, it gets linked up. And so what can happen is we can get all kinds of things miswired in the mind, where some people, for example, growing up, maybe they get sympathy feelings linked up to love. And then the problem is, is we need love. And so then they grow up and they're in their 20s and 30s and 40 whatnot. And they have that link even from childhood that says, Oh, how I get love is sympathy. And it, it's an unconscious pattern and thing that they do in life that then controls their life. And so what can happen is even as a child where somebody gets an owie and it says, Oh, let me kiss it and make it better. It links up love. And so part of the reason I would say that loneliness is so linked up to illness is because let's say that happens at a child and then let's say they grow up, they're 10, 20, 30, 40 years old, and let's say 50 years old, whatever age, and they start feeling lonely. And then the subconscious mind says, well, wait a second, how do I get love? And the subconscious mind goes back to childhood and says, Oh, I need an owie. And so that can be connected to love. So point being is that when we're working with a childhood self, we don't want to link up love to the wounding. We want to link up love to the, the amazingness. So what I would say is instead of saying like, Oh, a child is, is all scared and wounded and hurt. I would say release those emotions. Let those go. But instead seeing your childhood self happy and wonderful and give that love and connection. Say, yes, little self, you're feeling amazing. You're feeling confident. You're feeling good. You're feeling loving. You're sweet. You're smart. Whatever that is. Let me love that up. And then as far as the wounded sympathies, scared, get those emotions out of the subconscious mind so they don't repeat. Because if we think about things like if we think about repetition compulsion or reenactments or attachment theory or re victimization, whatever you want to call it, it is well known in Freud's works, psychology, psychoanalysis, whatever method we want to look at in psychology, it is well known that patterns breed more of the same. And a simple example is unfortunate example is, you know, we've heard before a woman may have an abusive father and leave him and find the abusive boyfriend, boss, spouse, etc, etc. Or people may grow up and marry somebody that's like their mother or father because these subconscious patterns, attachment theory, you know, that's exactly that we will grow up and marry somebody who might be like, you know, a caregiver. And so these unconscious patterns, we don't want to fuel them or love them. We want to understand how to eradicate them and then love the love, love the kindness, the smart, the good, the genius, because then that flourishes if that makes sense. So that's the key.

Melanie Avalon:
What it's reminding me of is, so I love my therapist, but one of the things that happened a few years ago was I do cryotherapy every day. And I remember I was telling her that when I'm in the cryo chamber, it kind of feels like there's a little kid in me that's complaining and doesn't want to be there and, you know, feels very cold. And I told her that and she was like, oh, and I was telling her that I basically was just like watching that happen in my mind. And she was saying, oh, you should, like, hug that child. And I remember intuitively being like, I don't think so. Like I don't think I should, like, placate that child, you know? So it just, I'm just so fascinated by this, by this whole concept, especially with the cross linking and, and speaking of the mind not knowing the difference, one of the things you have this tool called the, the power vision. How did you come up with that? And what is the role of imagining things, how our brain interprets it versus things actually happening?

Brandy Gillmore:
Absolutely. So the reason that I came up with the visual reality was this, was that a lot of people, you see them a lot of times, you know, somebody might visualize and they're so stuck in their head. And I was doing that initially where I was, you know, picturing myself healthy and happy, and then it wasn't working. And then I was picturing like I was trying to picture my spine and my nervous system all healed. And I was doing that like, I mean, so much so and then it wasn't working. So then I would get anatomy books and I would stare at them. And until you know, like if you look at the sun, and you're looking at the sun, it like burns an image in your eyes. And so I would do that I would literally like stare at it and then, and then get the image in my mind and then close my eyes and be like, All right, now I have it. And so it wasn't working. And the more I really understood that it was an emotional neurological connection and that getting the nervous system involved and the triggers and all of this, I started saying, Okay, well, emotion that we can't just be stuck in our head. And so it was really about creating that feeling and amplifying the feeling and getting it just feeling the feeling as much as possible. And so that's where visual reality comes from, which is basically like having a vision. And it's a way to think about is like virtual reality, you know, if you're in virtual reality, you're, you feel like you're actually living in it. And so visual reality is stepping into the vision and feeling it and, and the more you can feel it and the more real it seems, it's like the more you can take it in. So and I would also say, we all learned virtual reality if we ever played tea party as five year olds and Barbies and you know, what do you you have your pretend teacups and you have your, you know, you you we have an imagination as a child, and then we think it's just childish. And so here we are with this valuable ability to imagine things as a kid. And, and we just think that it's a waste of time. And we grow up and become much smarter than that. And then we realize now, oh, gosh, visualization is really powerful.

Melanie Avalon:
And so, and in that experience, the brain, my understanding is the brain doesn't necessarily know that it's not real. Like the effects of it are the same as if it were actually happening.

Brandy Gillmore:
Exactly, and if you think about it, a lot of people do that very thing when we worry. What do we do? We think about something that's negative and feel stressed out and gut-wrenching and, you know, fearful or whatever it is, and tension all from something that didn't even happen. Or, I mean, let's be honest, we could watch an intense film, you know, movie, and you can find yourself tensing up when this happens or that happens, because our mind-body connection doesn't necessarily know. It doesn't know the difference, especially when we see ourselves in that vision. And so the more that we can start to see ourselves in a new way and create feelings in a positive way, just, it's incredible.

Melanie Avalon:
A big concern or question I have that people may be wondering is because, you know, you talk a lot about the detrimental effects of when we do dwell on the negative and the effects that it has. So how do we not dwell on the negative but also not suppress that or avoid that and make it worse in the end?

Brandy Gillmore:
That is a great question and I would say really amplifying the emotions because this is the way to think about it is this is that we don't want to dwell on them but we also need to understand that emotions help control our consciousness and our perception and a simple way to think about it is like this is you know somebody's really really really in love with somebody what do they see they see all of the good and if somebody's really really angry at somebody what do they see they see all of the negative they fault find and the brain does this automatically like the mind our minds will do this without us saying okay we'll only see the good in this person only see the negative in that person and what happens is these are subconscious programming and our emotions really are controlling our consciousness and we don't realize that it's happening and so kind of like this have you ever seen this before where maybe somebody tells you a story and they feel like the victim but as you're listening to their story you're like kind of maybe doesn't seem like you're the victim in this situation right but in their mind they see themselves and perceive themselves as being the victim and that's an example of that is that is that our minds are controlling our consciousness and we don't realize it for example there are people right now who are walking around in this world who feel like the world is a very scary place and there are others who feel like it is a beautiful place and those both people could be walking around in the same grocery store where one person says this world is scary and it's horrible and it's dangerous and another person is like oh my gosh it's sunny and it's beautiful outside and so what happens is we don't even realize that this is happening we all think that the world is just the way it is and in my own life I didn't realize that I saw the world through a fearful lens I thought this is just how life is and I didn't even know I mean I do if you would have asked me do you think the world is fearful like or do you see the world as a fearful place I would say no like I wouldn't have I wouldn't have ever said that I thought the world was a great place I thought it was happy I thought it was a great place I would have said no I love I love life life is wonderful but then when I started releasing fear from my subconscious mind I was like wow this place is really beautiful like it really oddly it just felt I don't know like the sky bluer and and instead of it just like just seeing more happiness in people like I know it's just it's so hard to explain but it's kind of like have you ever done that before where I don't know maybe you buy a new car or you're thinking about buying a new car and you start seeing it everywhere yes yeah yeah so it's like that it's like you but except for you feel happier and you start noticing all those people over there are happy look at those happy people oh look at those happy people compared to if you're like oh look at there's injured people over there there's some depressed people over there there's some people who are struggling over there but you don't realize it because you just think oh this is just what people are going through right now you know what I mean

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it's like, I forget this specific fact, you might know it, but there's like x amount of more nerves or transmissions going from the brain to the eyes and the eyes to the brain. So basically, we're picking before we see what we want to see, rather than objectively seeing the world.

Brandy Gillmore:
Exactly and you know when you think about it though, but it's even on an emotional level because a partner We could be absolutely in love with a partner and then Get so you know hurt or upset or pissed whatever it is just hurt upset whatever it is And then you start fault finding in them Because there's an emotional shift Even and it can happen even with people who are blind. So it's not even just about Seeing it's a it's a perception. It's a depth. There's a An experience to it if if you will the brain is and our emotional filters if that makes sense It's just it's we experience it. It's our consciousness so I would say to the point of Is that? As we stay out of fueling the negative and really start fueling the positive We create a shift a radical shift in our emotions and and another way to even think about it might be this is that You know I use the example of of the woman with the abusive father who leaves him and finds the abusive boyfriend boss spouse etc, etc that those patterns can continue and It becomes about really healing the pattern and really healing the wounding. So Let's be honest We could all say oh, well this hurt and this was upset and we can all have compassion For that situation, but when we get to a point where we're really ready to let it go And heal and change the way we feel about something To say, you know what? I'm not gonna let this control my life. I'm not gonna You know it there's a shift a transformation in addressing Emotional patternings and saying i'm not going to be afraid of whatever it is To creating a radical shift if that makes sense

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I love this so much. And speaking of feeling these things intuitively, you touch on the book about how this whole practice can affect a person's intuition. So what is the bingo intuition moment that you have? You know,

Brandy Gillmore:
Okay, so after I healed myself, I developed this ability to feel what other people feel, which may sound weird. And at first I didn't want to tell anybody because I was like, I don't even understand it. But there's actually a medical condition called mirror touch synesthesia where one person can feel what another person is feeling. And so before actually, that was one way that I started explaining it. Even in my TEDx talk, I literally describe it exactly. I'm like, okay, it's kind of like mirror touch synesthesia, or you could call it intuition on steroids. That's another way, you know, I've tried everything to just kind of ground it, but what I really, how I see it is this, it's like universal wifi, you know, just like our cell phones all have wifi, you know, or our computers all have wifi, we all have intuition. And even if you think about it, animals, I mean, even birds know when to fly south or dogs, there's stories of dogs being lost and they're able to then navigate their way back. And, you know, or even earthquakes happening or natural disasters and animals migrate two or three days before. So there's like this universal intelligence, if you will. And I mean, and by the way, there's even medical journals that show and prove intuition and all of these things. And I would say we all have it. We just don't all use it and or have the awareness. And I would say that as I started working with my mind and I cleared my subconscious mind, I became able to tap into this universal wifi, if you will. And by the way, even Einstein credits his discoveries on his intuition. So somebody like Einstein or Oprah, I mean, it's just, we have an intuition that is beyond what most people would think.

Melanie Avalon:
I interviewed Jackie Higgins. She wrote a book called Sentient, which was about our senses, but really about all the senses of different animals. But she talked about a study where they blindfold people and move them all around and confuse their sense of direction. And then most people, I don't remember if it was like true north or home, one of those people intuitively know which direction that is, even when they have no idea. I think it really speaks to how I think it's very real, all of these things that we don't see that we could tap into if we are able to. And so it sounds like with you, with your, what is it called? The mirror.

Brandy Gillmore:
Like mirror image synesthesia or universal Wi-Fi, you know, okay, have you ever done this before where you thought of somebody and they called, right? We are so connected. We just don't realize it. I think that at some point, cell phones are going to be like training wheels for ESP. Like we're all going to have this ability to communicate and cell phones right now are just like training wheels. We're just, we're like, you know, you know, it's, I would say we just, there, there is a study or not a study, I'm sorry. There was, who was it? Carter was an office. Like there's actual research just throughout history where it shows and validates that again, just studies on mind gifts that we do have these incredible abilities. And so I would just say very simply that after I healed myself, I developed this ability to not intentionally, but I developed this ability to feel what other people feel. And that has also helped me to gain a much deeper understanding of emotions and help people to understand how to heal themselves.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm sure it's masterly wonderful for, because you're helping so many people. So that's incredible how that comes into play. I have one last just super random question. Do you know if people with emotional related personality disorders like narcissism or psychopaths or sociopaths, do they have different rates of sickness and healing?

Brandy Gillmore:
I do not know the answer to that. I do not know the answer to that. In my experience, the ingredients, the combination is so important. But I don't know. That's a great question.

Melanie Avalon:
to be determined. Well this has been absolutely amazing. I really, and for listeners, I think now they'll see you know how profound your work is and I just want to emphasize again and again that if you get this book, Master Your Mind and Energy to Heal Your Body, it has step-by-step instructions and a program and a protocol to follow so you can actually implement this into your life because I think it can sometimes seem a little nebulous and how do I do that and so I'm really I'm just so grateful that you've written this book where you talk about the science and your journey and then you also provide a very helpful toolkit for people so go get the book now. Is there anything you want else you want to touch on or share with listeners?

Brandy Gillmore:
You know, this is what I would say is this, is that when we think about it for a moment, it's written throughout history that stress affects the physical body. And we know that psychoneuroimmunology shows that stress affects the immune system or even in the Bible, thousands of years ago, 3000 years ago, it's written, a merry heart is a medicine to the body, ill thoughts will dry the bones. And we're at this time in the world right now, where more and more people are suffering from depression and sickness illness, despite everything that we're doing, illness is increasing rapidly. And what I would say is this, is that just that, you know, the information has been around for thousands of years. And I would, it would be amazing for our generation to actually be the ones who use it, who actually in the way I think about it is like this is, you know, there's the four minute mile. And if everybody's heard of the four minute mile, basically, it used to be thought that it was humanly impossible to run a mile in under four minutes. And then Roger Bannister did it. And once he did it, then more and more people started doing that exact thing. Now, if you ask me, could I run a mile in under four minutes? The answer is no, I believe it's possible, but it's also a skill. And so what I would say similarly, more and more people are waking up to the awareness that we can heal. And there's also a skill to it of how to use their mind, how to use the mind. But that's what I see is I even, you know, you mentioned in the beginning, the reviews on the book, and it's exactly that I see more and more people saying, okay, well, our minds are incredible, we can see the mind body connection. And let's learn this skill. And that's my hope for our generation is that we actually turn around illness, that we all start really feeling empowered. And so just just that and that and also Melanie, I have to say, I just absolutely adore you, your heart, you're you're just, you're just brilliant and sweet and wonderful. And there's that as well. So thank you.

Melanie Avalon:
Likewise, I send that all back to you and actually it's perfect the last question that I ask every single guest on this show and it's Just because I do realize every single day how important mindset is and I'm feeling so grateful for you right now What is something that you're grateful for? you

Brandy Gillmore:
life, being able to just be healthy and happy, and I mean so many things, but life, this beautiful world, everything, people. I think I have a 10 ,000 long list of everything, you know, the fact that I'm pain-free and healthy is everything.

Melanie Avalon:
I love it. How can people get your book? You have a program people can do as well a community. How can people? How can people do this?

Brandy Gillmore:
Absolutely. My book is Anywhere Books Are Sold, Amazon, Barnes & Noble. I also have programs, workshops, video course, and whatever because everybody likes a different type of media or whatnot. But my biggest thing is I just would love to see everybody get results. It is truly incredible what our minds are capable of. And so my website is brandygillmore.com. And Gillmore is with 2Ls. And last thing is there's a video on it that says see live healing. And I actually do a demonstration under medical equipment on that video. And so that's also another great way to kind of just see the power of the mind.

Melanie Avalon:
I love it. I love it. Well, we will put links to all of that in the show notes. Thank you so, so much for what you're doing. I appreciate you so much. I'm just really excited to see your, you know, your vision of the future with everybody come true because you're doing incredible things and I'm really, really excited about all of this. So thank you. You're amazing.

Brandy Gillmore:
Thank you so much. And likewise, you're amazing. I love what you do. And it has been such a pleasure. Thank you. Have a wonderful rest of your day. And thanks. Bye.