The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #298 - Kelly Gores

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Kelly Gores

We are co-creators with life, these spiritual beings having this human experience and the path of life is remembering how powerful we are and where we come from and you know that we're a little rays of the divine. So you change the field, you change the frequency, you change the energy, your matter will reorganize.  Don't let anybody tell you what's possible for your life, get the information, find your team, find the opinion that you respect the most and then you decide what's possible for your life. Our brain is the most powerful pharmacy on the planet.

Melanie Avalon

Welcome to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, where we meet the world's top experts to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and biohack your life? This show is for you. Please keep in mind, we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes you may experience from implementing the tactics lying herein.  So friends, are you ready to join me? Let's do this. Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Oh my goodness, friends, it was such an honor to have Kelly Gores on the show. I had watched her heel documentary when it first came out, and I am so grateful for her work. It was so exciting to dive into her mind and learn about her experience as a filmmaker making this documentary. And we touch on so many cool topics, including the power of not only the placebo, but the no-cebo effect. How people can have spontaneous remission, when you should actually use pharmaceuticals, religious healers, how to assert yourself with your doctor, how to actually take control of your health, and so much more.  I can't wait to hear what you guys think. The show notes for today's episode will be at melanieavalon.com slash heal. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. There will be two episode giveaways for this episode. One will be in my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. Comment something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pinned post to enter to win something that I love. And then check out my Instagram, find the Friday announcement post, and again, comment there to enter to win something that I love. All right, I think that's all the things. Without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation with Kelly Gores. Hi friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation I am about to have. I feel like it is such a long time coming. So the backstory on today's conversation, back in 2017, I watched a documentary called Heal, and actually, I'm just thinking about this now, that was actually, was that during what I call my like dark face? I think it was. I'm pretty sure that was when I was experiencing a lot of my own personal health challenges and really just trying to find modalities to get better and like feeling really hopeful, but also on the struggle bus. And I watched this documentary and it had so many incredible figures in it.  People like Joe Dispenza and Bruce Lipton and the medical medium and all these different people talking about our body's innate capacity to heal. And it was really, really powerful. I really loved it. So fast forward to more recently, I was absolutely thrilled when I received the opportunity to interview the writer, director and producer, Kelly Noonan-Gors, who not only has that documentary, she also released a book, which kind of has the content of the documentary, but then it expands on it.

Melanie Avalon

And that book is called Heal, Discover Your Unlimited Potential and Awaken the Powerful Healer with N. And it was really exciting because I got to read the book and revisit the documentary now from a new place that I met in my own personal health journey.  So I am so looking forward to this. I have so many notes and questions. Kelly, first of all, thank you so much for everything that you're doing for our world. And thank you so much for being here today.

Kelly Gores

Oh, thank you for having me and all your kind words.

Melanie Avalon

I just really, really appreciate this work. And I have so many questions for you.  A huge question I have is, I feel like a common trend in the health and wellness sphere is that people write books or start doing what they're doing because they experience some personal health challenge. That's often the case. And in the book, you talk about how, you know, you did have a health experiences of sorts that you were trying to deal with. But you didn't really have like, unless I'm wrong, you didn't really have like one, you know, really intense health challenge, like a lot of people go through. So A, is that accurate? And then two, what made you so interested in this whole healing concept? Like what drove you to want to create this documentary in the first place?

Kelly Gores

Yeah. I know you would think that either I went through something and learned through my own personal experience or lost someone to a terrible disease or something. Luckily, neither of those were the case.  It was just a lifetime of events that led me to create this documentary, which makes sense if you look at my astrology. Healing and teaching is all over my chart. I had no idea about that before I did this film. Like you, I was an actor my whole life. I grew up outside of LA and my parents got me into, just by default, my brother was kind of the cutest kid on the planet at the time. People kept stopping my mom on the street and saying, you got to get your kid an agent. She would just drag me, the less cute kid, to the auditions and stuff. He ended up not liking it and I loved it. I was a working actor as a child. I've always been a seeker. I've always been very curious. In my 20s, when I came back to acting, you face a lot of rejection. I started just reading all sorts of personal development books and just trying to understand myself and heal myself and remove the blocks that were keeping me from booking the jobs and having the career and getting the Oscar that I thought would complete me. That just led me to... It's just a wild journey of watching the secret and learning about the law of attraction and then starting to meditate around the same time. I'd been doing yoga forever, but I just finally learned transcendental meditation around the time that the secret came out. I would go to Agape, which is this international spiritual center led by Michael Beckwith, who's in Heal. He's been one of my dearest friends and greatest spiritual teachers. Just one thing led to another and I just started becoming so empowered. I just realized that we are co-creators with life. Basically, these spiritual beings having this human experience and the path of life is remembering how powerful we are and where we come from and that we're little rays of the divine. People would stop me on the street and it's like, how are you so happy? What is your diet? You look so healthy. How are you manifesting all this great stuff? I just ultimately decided to put all my teachers in a film so that other people could be empowered like I was.

Melanie Avalon

I love it so much, so much overlap. I was always begging my mother growing up for an agent. I would have been so jealous of you. You were the type of person I'd be jealous of. I'm like, oh, their parents are supportive. That's amazing.  And then the secret, the reason I have this podcast is I listened to the secret and I was like, I'm going to start a podcast. And then I did. So it's funny that, or it's not funny, but it's interesting how powerful that I feel like a lot of people start something after they read that book or watch that film. What I really like about interviewing people like yourself who have taken this whole topic of healing and health to the more mainstream level with something like a documentary, because it's on Amazon Prime, right?

Kelly Gores

Yes, it was on Netflix for a couple of years and now it's on Amazon Prime.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, actually, I originally watched it on Netflix. That makes sense.  And then Amazon Prime this time around. I'm really interested about the reception and perception and the more mainstream about this topic and then some more like to color out that question a little bit more, I was reading through all the reviews on like Amazon Prime IMDB last night, the overwhelming majority is like five stars, all positive. Like this changed my life. The theme of people who are a little bit skeptical is that they say, oh, this is like woo woo or, you know, not real science.  So I'm really curious when you were like pitching the film to like, did you pitch to Netflix originally or did they, how did it get to Netflix?

Kelly Gores

Yeah. It's so funny.  I'm glad you read the comments because I'm the type of sensitive person that just, I'm like an ostrich in the ground. I just don't want to hear any feedback. I never rewatch anything I do. I just throw it out there and keep moving forward.

Melanie Avalon

I don't either with my own stuff, so I hear you.

Kelly Gores

But that's good to know that overwhelming response is positive.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, it is. It is. I will like emphasize that it's like overwhelming.

Kelly Gores

So Netflix, so I financed the film, basically myself, my generous husband was like, oh God, this is your passion project, like go do it and did it for like low budget, you know, and it was just like, he gave me an incredible opportunity because he just knew that I had to do this film, even though he has a really busy life and we traveled all over the world together at the time. And he's like, I don't know when you have time to do this. So when I set out to do this, and it was a calling in my heart, like I just, I had this strong vision for this film. And Michael Beckwith, you know, told me like, if you have that pull in your heart, if you have that calling, dream, desire, God also gives you everything you need to realize that dream, desire, vision, like the oak tree is already in the acorn. So I just really trusted that.  And so basically we, I just did the film by myself, I hired a producer, we did it all independently. I was learning as I was going, but again, I just like, you know, Jesus take the wheel. I trusted in this poll and I knew that I had to do this, even though I didn't feel qualified to be the voice of this, these teachers, you know, or the storyteller. So all of that to say, you know, Netflix at the time was the behemoth, you know, it still is, but there's a lot of other players in the field. So Netflix was like the goal, right? And I just very clearly saw it on Netflix. We got a distributor just kind of came to us, this guy at one of the top documentaries distribution companies like went through his own healing journey. So everything like happened really much in flow, which I was so grateful for. And then we released the film on iTunes, December of 2017, like early January, one month later, and we were like number one documentary. It was really amazing initial success.  And then like the first week back at work in January of 2018, Netflix sent out this industry-wide memo that was like, we're not acquiring any more independent content, we're switching the model, we're putting all the money towards creating our own content. And so my distributor called, he's like, I'm sorry, I know you guys wanted Netflix, but it's not happening. And I said, wait a second, you know, it takes at least two years, maybe a year fast to like film something and then edit it and turn it around and release it. So they're gonna need some buffer time. And this is so timely. And I was just like, okay, I get it, you know, lowered my expectations, but just keep knocking on the door because they're gonna need this.  And it's, you know, so cut to three weeks later, he was like, well, you were right, they're taking it, but they're not taking it, you know, they're doing it for a year from now. So, but I was just like, I just, you know, I was just doing my round of burn thing. Like I just see it on Netflix. It's gonna be on Netflix and it was on Netflix. So that was how it happened.

Melanie Avalon

That's amazing. Okay.  So, so it sounds like they were, they were really receptive to the content and the themes and things like that. I'm curious. So you mentioned that now everything, my apologies, things are going to run together in my head about what was in the book versus the documentary. But in some regards somewhere, probably a lot of it is in both.  Was it you that looked through, you found like 75 things common and healing. What happened there? So you interviewed people and.

Kelly Gores

So that was Kelly Turner actually. There's so funny. My name is Kelly and then two of the experts of the females, of like the four females, two of them were named Kelly. So Kelly Turner, she's a PhD and she did her research on cancer and as she was like starting to figure out what she wanted to do her dissertation on, she started like seeing these kind of anomaly spontaneous healing stories or spontaneous remissions.  And she's like, well, hold on. I'm like, why aren't we studying these? I want to know what those people did to heal because conventional medicine, they just write them off as like a fluke thing that can't be measured, you know, they're just like an anomaly. So, but then she started like, it wasn't just two anomalies, it was like 1500 people that she kept finding like this number growing of people that were diagnosed with stage four cancer, terminal cancer. There was nothing else the conventional medicine model could do for them. And they were basically sent home to enjoy their last days. And so they all survived. And she's like, what did they do to heal their cancer when there was no hope? And so she found 75 different things that everybody did. And then she found that all of them did a version of these nine different things. So that became like the nine essentials for healing. Since then, she realized that she didn't include exercise or movement. And when she went back over her research, it was there. So it's now become 10 things, the 10 key factors for healing.  Her research applies specifically to cancer. My hypothesis is that it applies to all chronic illness. The most important part of that is of the 10 things, only three of them are physical and the rest are mental, emotional and spiritual. So basically, 75% of healing should be in the mental, emotional and spiritual realm. Physical is the last place an ailment shows up and you need to address it. But you've got to do all the other things too that conventional medicine really just doesn't address. So there's place for both. But we put the emphasis on the wrong thing.

Melanie Avalon

This is so interesting. So, because I'm looking at, you know, what some of these things are.  So, the non-physical things are things like, you know, taking control of your health and following your intuition, releasing your suppressed emotions, increasing your positive mindset, having social support. So, with the people that she was studying, there were not people who healed who did not have all these things. So, does that mean if a person, for example, I don't want to make this super negative, but has cancer and they don't have social support or they're not positive, does that mean they can't heal?

Kelly Gores

No, and there's a lot of people that never address the mental, emotional and spiritual and they continue to drink Diet Coke and eat Lucky Charms. Not those things, but there's ingredients in them that are known carcinogens. I have friends that radiated and did Western medicine on cancer, didn't do anything to change their lifestyle and they're at this point cancer free, thank God.  It's not to say that you need all those 10 things to heal. It is to say that cancer comes about in an environment. It's the terrain theory. Cancer can grow because it's been given an environment in which cancer thrives. Cancer cannot thrive in an alkaline oxygenated environment. It really thrives in an inflamed stress hormone, high sugar environment, toxic environment. All of that to say, Western medicine is amazing and life saving in so many ways, especially for acute situations, but if you don't change anything about the environment and you just there's a high likelihood that cancer can come back. For true healing, the research shows that changing the environment by doing all of these 10 things, it's like the old you dies and a new you in which cancer cannot thrive is born.

Melanie Avalon

You say either in the book and or the film that like radical remission, for example, has been documented in all types of cancers, which I was not aware of. I don't think I realized the seeming hopelessness of some types of cancer until my aunt actually got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.  This was I think over a year ago, maybe two years ago, she passed away from it. But I remember when she got that diagnosis, that was my first time looking into a cancer diagnosis and realizing there are certain types of cancers where basically it's accepted that you just don't heal from it. So it was really timely and interesting and healthy for me to read that there have been radical remissions for all types of cancer. What do you think of the concept of radical remission? Like what is happening? How is the body, is that like a mindset shift, especially if somebody was like going down the hill and then they just have radical remission? Like what do you think is actually happening?

Kelly Gores

I mean, I think that Joe Dispenza talks about this a lot. It's very difficult, or it's going to take a lot more energy and perhaps time. If you're in the time-space dimension of this 3D life, if you're trying to heal physical matter with physical modalities, it just takes a lot of time and energy. And when you go down to the quantum or the energetic level, because we are just vibrating atoms, there's a lot of empty space between this seemingly solid matter of our skin and bones and meat suits. But ultimately, when you go down to the quantum, energetic level, it's just empty space and vibrating little molecules and atoms. So I think spontaneous remission, when I hear you ask that question, is making a transformation on the level of consciousness, and then miracles happen and matter reorganizes accordingly.  And that's where the miracle is. So there's two examples there. Joe Dispenza talks about this Yale researcher called Harold Saxon Burr. And he was studying electromagnetic fields of mice. And so he was measuring the fields that were emitting off these mice, and specifically these mice with ovarian cancer. And he just noticed that the ones with ovarian cancer had a very specific electromagnetic signature in the field. Then what he discovered through all his research was that some mice that didn't have symptoms, didn't have tumors, had not presented yet with ovarian cancer, some of those mice that were seemingly healthy were emitting the same field signature as the ovarian cancer mice, which he thought was interesting. And 100% of the time, weeks later or whatever the timeline was, those mice would develop ovarian cancer.  So his conclusion was, it's not matter that emits a field. There's a frequency organization in the field around us, in our auras, if you will. And that's where matter organizes. That field and the frequency in your energetic field is what dictates the organization of matter, a.k.a. a tumor in your body. So I think that's fascinating. So you change the field, you change the frequency, you change the energy, your matter will reorganize.  The best example is if you watch Heel or you read the book or you get her book is Anita Morjani. She had stage four cancer. She wrote a book called Dying to Be Me, which I recommend to anybody who's on a cancer journey. And she had stage four lymphoma, lemon-sized tumors coming from her neck down to her abdomen, coming out of her skin. Her body was shutting down. She had tried everything. She had tried Western medicine. She had lost her best friend to cancer. She was Indian, so she went to India and did all the Ayurvedic stuff. She came about at all angles and ultimately ended up in the hospital. Her organs were shutting down. They couldn't even tap a vein. She was like 70 pounds with these lemon-sized tumors coming out of her. So she went into a coma, had a near-death experience, went into this other realm, and came out of her body.

Kelly Gores

And she was in this heavenly love juice, as she calls it, this expansion in love feeling that many people who have NDEs share, this same feeling. It's a love that you can't put human words on. And she encountered the essence of her father who had passed away. In life, they had a very tumultuous relationship. And she brought a lot of shame because she didn't do the arranged marriage thing. And in that realm, there was no judgment. There was no negativity. There was just pure love and understanding.  There was just this kind of zero-point clarity, all in one, knowing in that moment that the reason she had developed cancer was because she came through most of her decisions from fear. So there's a lot of fear. Her perspective was from fear. And she also knew that if she went back into her body, she would heal. Her dad was like, your mission is not over. Go back and heal, and then share it with the world. And she's like, I don't want to go back into that body. I'm loving this feeling up here. But ultimately, she went back into her body. She recounted things that she couldn't have possibly known from her 3D brain in that hospital room. She could recount conversations that happened down the hallway. She recounted memories that when she was in a coma, she couldn't have possibly recounted. So all of these miracles are documented within three weeks. There was no evidence of cancer in her body. Within five weeks, she was healthy, plump, and walking out of the hospital. So that's what I mean by spontaneous remission when you hit it at the consciousness level, which we're still trying to crack how to do that without having a near-death experience. Miracles can happen, and your physical body can reorganize in a snap.

Melanie Avalon

It's reminding me of the stuff you were saying earlier with the energetic field and everything like that. I interviewed a few months ago, Rizwan Verkh, he wrote the simulation hypothesis. He's one of the main people behind simulation theory today. Well, so we could be in a simulated reality and that would, I guess, have a lot of implications about all of this.  But in any case, we talked a lot about quantum physics and the collapse of the particle wave and basically this idea that you, and this is like quantum physics as well, not just like his simulation hypothesis, but we render what we see. This idea that there are a lot of possibilities of where things could be, but we in quantum physics actually render that. So it's really, I mean, it ties into all of this with this idea that there's a lot of possibilities of states of health or disease and there's definitely agency there. In some regards to how we perceive it and our mindset surrounding it.  So you feature in the film stories of different people, sorry, what was the name of the girl with the dad that you just mentioned?

Kelly Gores

Anita Morjani

Melanie Avalon

Right, yes. And then there was Elizabeth. Eva. Yes. Was it Elizabeth, the one with the cancer, who at the end, when it went away, they told her that she must have just been misdiagnosed?

Kelly Gores

Oh yeah, forgot about that, yep.

Melanie Avalon

So what's really, really interesting, since I know you don't read the reviews, and again, I don't read my own reviews, I read, I thought this was so interesting. I read one of the reviews and it was saying that it was talking about that example in the film and how at the end doctors just told her she was misdiagnosed and, you know, never had the cancer to begin with. And they were like, see, she never had the cancer to begin with. So this whole journey was in her head, basically. It was interesting to read that review because I was like, oh, I mean, I guess from their perspective, that's a valid point, too.  So like, I think people are really going to choose to see what they want to see with all of this. How do you feel about that? Like, how do you feel about the story behind people's diseases and what actually happened? Like, how do we know the truth of what actually happened?

Kelly Gores

I know. Well, I mean, she wasn't having phantom pain and having things show up on scans. And then it's wild. But yeah, I think you nailed it.  People see exactly what they want to see and fear and judgment kind of minimize the aperture. So like when you're in fear, and we saw this in COVID with a lot of people and we're still seeing it, it's just, it limits your, because of just the way our brains work. And when you're in fear, all you care about is surviving. So you just kind of your peripheral vision, everything just kind of hones in and you're just laser focused on what you're laser focused on. And you miss you miss the possibilities. You're narrowing the possibilities when you're in fear. So it's just the possibility of someone healing didn't line up with that reviewer's experience of the world and the stories they've heard. And maybe they've lost someone and they can't afford to hope that healing could have happened. There's like a million reasons. Yeah, it's interesting. The truth is in the eye of the beholder, but Elizabeth would definitely argue otherwise because she lived it.

Melanie Avalon

I forget the exact stats, but the amount, and you might know, it's like the amount of neurons I think are signaling going from our eyes to the world versus the world to our eyes. Basically there's way more going from our eyes to the world.  So we're literally like already like looking at what we want to look at. We don't see objectively. We just literally cannot.

Kelly Gores

Yeah. And it's filtered by this lens of the subconscious programming, conditioning, and beliefs. It's literally these filters that you're putting and you're looking through. So imagine you're wearing sunglasses and they have in the lens just like, oh, this is the filter of I am unworthy. This is the filter of the world is not safe. This is the filter of all men are assholes. Whatever your filters are that you've accumulated, you're going to see different... You're going to filter out anything that is evidence to the contrary because your ego wants to be right and your brain wants to survive the species.  So it's very interesting and that's why you could have two witnesses at a scene of a crime and they give two completely different accounts and they were both looking at the same thing. So yeah, it's pretty wild to be honest.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, and then on top of that, I'm pretty sure it's in the book where this is mentioned. You talk about a study where people with multiple personality disorder and how they can basically in different personalities manifest different conditions, which I find so fascinating.  Yeah, would you like to elaborate on that a little bit?

Kelly Gores

Totally. This is why I'm just so fascinated with the human body and potential for healing for radical, spontaneous transformation. This, I think, is a good demonstration.  They have documented that people with multiple personality disorder or dissociative personality disorder, whatever the term was. They could be in one personality, let's call her Susie. And Susie's highly anxious, timid. And then the next personality is George. And George is deathly allergic too, breaks out in hives when he drinks orange juice. Well, he could be drinking orange juice and in hives. And then he switches over to Susie and the hives disappear like that. So it's just wild. And again, it goes back to that consciousness piece and how powerful the mind is in relation to the systems of the body.

Melanie Avalon

I'm pretty sure, and I'm trying to remember who I interviewed that talked about this, I think they did a study on the same condition and there was a patient that was blind in one of her personalities and not in the other. I'm pretty sure.

Kelly Gores

I think that's true.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, it's crazy. And then there's that poison ivy study where they think they had like kids arms.  Do you know the details of that one? I think I don't vaguely they basically like exposed kids to was it poison ivy in some of the situations they they were it was something that would make them react and they thought it was that and like in some situations it wasn't that but they thought it was like they gave them all like the combinations and basically whether or not they thought they were going to react was often the determining factors to whether or not they reacted. It wasn't really whether or not it was the thing.

Kelly Gores

And I think if people are curious about this, it has to do with the placebo effect and proving that like how strong the mind is. So if you're, let's say you're an asthmatic and, but they were telling people, they were telling you that you're going to, this is an inhaler that's going to open your lungs and help you. But then they, you know, there's, there's ethics in the thing. So, so they, they organized the studies, so it wasn't harmful for people. Whatever they told the person and they suggested, and then the person had an expectation, even if it was like a benign substance, it would make you have a reaction and then do the opposite. So like the example I can think of right now is if you have asthma and they gave you an inhaler and they told you it was going to make you breathe better, but it was actually, you know, had some traces of, of something that would irritate you and cause you to cough normally. But because they were believing it was something that helped them that they didn't have a reaction. So it was just, it just demonstrates like the power of the placebo effect.  And then the opposite, the nocebo effect, you know, it's just, it's pretty wild, but yeah, I think we're butchering the anecdote, but it's there.

Melanie Avalon

I'll put links in the show notes to it. I, I'm just so fascinated by the placebo effect and there's a lot of placebo effects with pills, I know. So like trying to remember the list of this. Cause I talked about it on my other podcast, the mind blown podcast, it's things like whether or not it's generic or name brand, it works better for people if it's name brand, even if it's the same thing, the color affects it. So I think like blue pills work better for a certain type of thing, red for another yellow for another, whether or not it's like even in a blister packet or not, it'll work better. It's crazy.  Like all the placebo stuff surrounding pills.

Kelly Gores

And placebo, a lot of people think like, oh, it's in your head. One of the learnings that I, because most of the stuff that I was asking these experts, I already knew. So there wasn't a lot of discovery in the process of making this documentary.  But one of them was, I remember Joe Dispenza talking about the placebo and how, or David Hamilton, a few of them talked about it, but they test these antidepressants against a sugar pill. And so if you have a belief and expectation that this pill is going to make you feel better, they found that in 75%, up to 75% of the people taking the sugar pill actually had the same exact chemical and experiential reaction to the pill. Their mood improved as if they were actually taking the actual drug. And so A, it shows that antidepressants, maybe the reason why they work is the placebo effect, but it's not just like, oh, it's in your head. Oh, all of a sudden I feel better. It's just in my head. No, our brain is the most powerful pharmacy on the planet. And when we have a meaning, like when we assign meaning to a pill, we take it with the expectation of it making us feel better or some outcome, and we have a history of taking pills and them working. All of that meaning puts a signal to your brain to then release the chemistry that you're expecting to occur in your body. So the brain was actually releasing the serotonin or the dopamine or whatever it was that's going to offer the chemistry that actually makes you feel better. So it's not just in your head, like you had a chemical reaction to an inert substance based on meaning and expectation. And that's the placebo effect, and that's like amazing to me.

Melanie Avalon

I'm so glad you said that. I was literally going to ask you that to expand on, you know, what is actually happening.  And like, is it the same thing in a way? So like, like basically like you just said, if you're taking the sugar pill versus the pharmaceutical actual pill, maybe in the end, they're actually having the same effect, which, which actually, I really wonder how much of just pharmaceutical medication in general is placebo, even if it's not a sugar pill, you know, like, like a lot of it, I guess we can never really know, honestly.

Kelly Gores

You know, we should maybe evolve and up level. It's not a great business model for, you know, billion dollar bottom line pharmaceutical companies. But it would be great knowing that there's real effects. They're not side effects. They're real effects from these drugs that you take a drug to help symptom A. Well, unfortunately, it's getting in the way of the natural processes of system B, C and D and the downflow that is connected to system A. So there are side effects and real effects from these drugs.  So I would think that we could get to a place where utilize modern medicine, utilize drugs that actually help people. I mean, when I have a migraine or, you know, and I can't function and I wait or I drink too much wine or whatever it is, like I will eventually take an Advil and I will have relief, you know, but I definitely wait till the last minute if it's not shifting on its own through all my other natural stuff. So I'm so grateful in that moment if I'm feeling debilitating pain for the ibuprofen, you know. So but the, I mean, if I was to design thing, it's like find the medication that can make a real shift in your body. But because there's long term effects, I mean, real effects that over long term use of a drug is going to throw off your whole system and require more drugs, which you see the powder in there, if we can start to condition people with medication and then replace it with a sugar pill that has no harmful effects, but we still have the expectation, the habit and the meaning that we're assigning to it. And then our body starts to condition like, oh, okay, when I used to take this pill, this occurred and your body starts to create that chemistry and actual healing. So you know, might be a pipe dream, but that would be the way like use drugs for a period of time where we are conditioning our body and then we replace it with a less, you know, a harmless substance that still does the trick.

Melanie Avalon

I love that business model. I'm down. Yeah, that's amazing. It reminds me. Oh, well, I'm glad you mentioned that about like, you know, if you have a migraine and in that moment, you're really grateful for the Advil or whatever. I'm really happy with where I'm at right now with all of that, which I have the same experience as you where I, so I don't in general take, you know, Advil or anything like that. But if there ever is something like I got, you know, tooth surgery or something, I mean, that stuff is really, really effective. And whether or not to what percent it's the placebo effect, I am really grateful for it in that moment.  And so I just say that to emphasize that, you know, your work and everything, you're not completely, you know, anti-conventional medicine or anything like that. It's just about what we're missing completely, I think, when we just come from a conventional medical perspective. I love because you talk about when you were really like young and you first had thoughts about all of this and epiphanies. It was reminding me, I remember when I was really, really young, like my, I remember my mom would say like she would give me an Advil for, you know, like a headache or if I like sprained a toe or if I was in pain somewhere. And I distinctly remember being like in kindergarten and thinking about it and being like, I don't understand how one pill can fix all these different things in the body. Like it did not make sense to me. I was like, shouldn't there be like a pill for your headache, a pill for your stubbed toe? Like there should be different pills. And now I realize that everything's just connected and it's, you know, there's this overarching like healing thing, but it reminded me of your story. What did you realize when you were little about healing?

Kelly Gores

Well, yeah, probably a lot of those types of stories too. But I think I had gotten sick. And of course, like my mom, she was pretty cool about me like going and partying in high school. And as long as I was safe and checked in and all that stuff. So I was going camping with a group of friends. She was like, just don't get sick, you know, just like take care of yourself and like sleep and hydrate. Anyways, did not do any of those things. I came back and was sick for a week.  And when I got better, my glands, my lymph nodes didn't go down. So of course, they test me for mono. They tested me for, I think, Epstein-Barr back then and all these things. And they just threw my general, you know, physician just threw an antibiotic at it. That didn't work. So they threw a different antibiotic at it. And then I just like nothing worked. So I had these kind of golf ball size glands coming out of half of my, you know, the side of my neck. And anyways, cut to they finally did a lymph node biopsies. And then, you know, all of us are like, Oh my God, what if it's cancer, you know, and the drama and luckily, but like, when under general anesthesia, this is not a cut open my neck. It's not like a small biopsy. It's like a full surgery. So that came back inconclusive or benign. And so just for six months, you know, drugs, surgery, nobody could figure out why these glands were swollen and not clearing out. And so then I was at my mom, my mom was playing soccer at the time and we went to her chiropractor and he felt my glands and he's like, Oh, okay. He's like, yeah. He's like, maybe you just have a congestion congestion there in your lymphatic system. Why don't you go home and take a shot of apple cider vinegar and do that, you know, twice a day for the next week and let me know if anything changes. Well, sure enough, like my glands went down to like mostly normal. They were maybe like a little bit bigger. And so I was like, are you kidding me? Like all these drugs, all the like major surgery, which now I have an IV phobia from for the rest of my life because they pushed my medication too fast and I felt like I was on fire.  And you know, it was the answer was in nature. It was in a bottle of apple cider vinegar, you know? And so I think that was my first real like, okay, I'm more of a fan of the natural path, you know? Like the surgery and the drugs are great for emergencies, but let's, let's exhaust all the natural, you know, remedies before if we have time.

Melanie Avalon

That's crazy. Your fear of IVs now, I'm assuming that's probably like kind of like the placebo effect and that I'm assuming if you think you're getting an IV. I know I have this experience now because I fainted from an IV once and so now every time one comes. Before it's even in, I get like my heart rate goes up and I'm worried I'm going to faint and I feel like I'm nauseous and sometimes it's not even in yet. So that's clearly like what we were talking about where your body is creating that condition.

Kelly Gores

Yeah. And that's the, we would call that the no SIBO effect. And it's so, the negative of plus SIBO and I think Greek or Latin plus SIBO is positive effect and then no SIBO is negative effect. And that's why, so if you have a negative expectation, it's going to, that's why your fears like the self-fulfilled prophecy or, you know, fears coming true, because we're focusing all of our attention on that.  And that's why also one of the biggest kind of takeaways or quotes or, you know, kind of mantras of the film is, you know, go to a doctor, get the information, get your diagnosis, find out where the imbalance is, what's going on in the body, but never buy into a doctor's prognosis. A prognosis is just one person's opinion. And if we go back to that talk about lens, you know, that same doctor has their own conditioning, their own lens that's been peppered with their experience of losing patients or not, their childhood trauma, and it's their opinion, which is why you go and get a second and third opinion. And you don't call it a second and third prognosis. It's like, no, they're all opinions. So don't let anybody tell you what's possible for your life, get the information, find your team, find the opinion that you respect the most, and then you decide what's possible for your life. You decide if you want to be that one or 2% anomaly because, you know, the doctors are just sharing opinions and regurgitating opinions and perpetuating that bell curve of the statistics because they're just continuing to tell people what's going to happen to them. And the people buy into that as truth rather than opinion. And then, of course, those statistics are going to grow. And the ones who take ownership of their health and say, nope, I'm going to be, I'm going to grab onto this possibility and I'm going to do everything I can to shift this. And it is possible. All things are possible. And we live in a world of infinite possibility. You know, let's start growing those statistics because it is so much more as possible than we are told.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I love that so much. And you also talk about how the mindset of the patient is tied to the mindset of the doctor. And so I think like you're saying it's so important to find somebody like you said that you respect. I love that.  Like, I feel like the idea of people getting second or third opinions, we kind of just like toss that aside as what you do, but that's actually very telling. You know, it's literally saying that people, you know, don't, nothing is definitive. I hadn't really thought about that before.

Kelly Gores

Totally. And look at it like we need to reframe this and I love this conversation. It's like get the prognosis and then get second and third prognoses or second and third opinions from two other doctors or teams because you are interviewing your team. They are there to work for you. You're not just their patient at their mercy.  It's like find the doctor whose opinion and just even if all three of the opinions are in the general same realm but one doctor has a little bit more hope and has a couple of different ideas of how to approach it and just their energy is better and they seem like a happier person. Like you're interviewing the team and like you said before you're going to entrain your belief in what's possible to their belief in these treatments or their level of hope. And hope is huge. It is a massive part of the formula. So if you go to a doctor and just because they're like the hottest doctor in LA or whatever, if their bedside manner is crap or they don't give you the time of day or you don't feel held in their presence, seek other opinions and find that small doctor that's going to put you first and find the hope and be your biggest cheerleader because that oftentimes makes the difference of someone healing and not.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I love this so much. I remember, I think the most eye-opening experience I had with all of this where I realized, oh, just how important it was that Dr. CU was, it was actually during like I said, around the time this came out during my quote, dark time I had, I had anemia, I didn't realize I got hospitalized, it was not good. But I remember I was in the hospital.  So I take low dose naltrexone, which I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a lot of people take it in the like the holistic health world. It's really good for like autoimmune conditions and mood. And in any case, I've been on it for years. It's a very, very low dose of naltrexone, which is used to treat like alcoholism and things like that. And so I was in the hospital. And I remember I had like filled out all the intake forms and like been speaking with the doctors. And at the end, I asked for all the doctor's notes. So I like read through all the notes on my chart about me. And one of the notes said, like patient says she doesn't, you know, drink excessively, but she's on naltrexone or something. And I was like, Oh, okay, so literally, they are just seeing what they want to see. Like I, it was so eye opening to me to realize that, you know, you can be a patient in the care of a doctor, a hospital setting, whatever it may be. And you, I mean, you just might not be being you might not be being seen or judged. So I do really empower people to stand up for themselves. But I know it's hard. Have you had have you had, you know, conversations with doctors where it's been hard for you to assert yourself

Kelly Gores

I mean, I'm trying to remember, not since I started researching this film. So it's been a while, it's been, you know, years, but even before that, I didn't see, I just know, I've just always kind of trusted my instincts, for instance, like leading up to this in my late 20s, kind of around the time that I was learning all this stuff. And I was still, you know, drinking cheap wine, eating frozen yogurt, I think like yogurt land and all of those, pinkberry had just come on the scene and I was like running, that was my way of staying in shape. So I'd like be running and then I'd be like, oh, I can eat whatever I want. So it was like, and I'm not, I didn't cook for myself back then. So I'd literally like have a diet consistent of like cereal, which puts all sorts of preservatives in there to keep it crunchy, which I didn't realize till later. And then, you know, yogurt, frozen yogurt, sometimes I would do the chemical one without, you know, the sugar and then I would drink cheap wine with my girlfriends and I'd wake up in the morning and I'd have like massive acid reflux. Well, no kidding me, my whole diet was acidic, you know, and not nutritional.  So, but I didn't have that awareness, even though I went to Berkeley and I'm like kind of smart. So, you know, you just don't know until you know. And so I went to a gastroenterologist and I'm like, I mean, my throat was burning. I would have acid reflux in the morning. Well, no kidding. So he sent me home with a whole bunch of Prilosec and I just had this association at 28, 29 years old. I was just like, pills are for old people. Like nobody back then took pills, you know, everybody does now, but it was just so weird to me. I was like, I'm not taking pills for my thing. So I just knew there had to be another way. And then as life would have it, like I joined a integrative nutrition program Institute for integrative nutrition, like right after that. And I started learning about, you know, what keeps cereal crunchy and what, you know, acid reflux really is. And I was like, oh, so I made two tweaks to my diet and it went away in two seconds, you know? So it's just all cultivating awareness and listening to podcasts like yours and sharing information and then trying it on yourself and resonating with your own intuition. Cause there's no one size fits all diet. There's no one size fits all healing protocol. We are all so bio individual based on our background and our beliefs and our environment and our culture. And so our biggest, and it's one of the 10 factors is cultivating your intuition. So if the more awareness we can practice, the more we can drop into our body and start to create space and silence, to allow that voice to get louder and louder, to tune into the subtle symptoms and feedback and sensations your body is giving you, whether it's your nose running right after you eat or your heart racing when someone walks in the room or you feel contracted or expansive, your body is like a tuning fork to the world around you and what you put in it.

Kelly Gores

And so it gives you every answer in the moment. And so the more that we can cultivate awareness, you know, the more we're gonna have luck following what's gonna work for us.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I love that the awareness and intuition. Yeah, your story reminds me I saw a gastroenterologist once and she was asking me, like how I support my like my bowel movements and all the things because I get digestive distress. And I told her I take a lot of magnesium, which really helps me. And she was like, Well, you probably shouldn't do that. You probably should take and then she wanted to prescribe me something. And I was like, I can take like this natural mineral and food and that's working. And you you're saying that's bad. And then I need to take like this, this drug. I don't get I don't want to write off all of it. But I think that you're saying having intuition and being savvy and doing research is so so key.  One other topic I wanted to ask you about is you in the film. And again, in the book, they're running together. So I know you said you were re race Catholic. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So what were your thoughts on your religious upbringing and religion's place and healing, and then talking about like religious figures in the film and their places historically in healing. Also, you talk about like entanglement and prayers, but because I know it's like a tricky subject, you know, people are very opinionated controversial topic. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think about like these historical figures that were seemingly healers?

Kelly Gores

My conclusion is that all healing is spiritual healing. It's that coming back to remembering that we are divine beings and we're whole and perfect in that divinity. And we are spiritual beings having this human experience and it's this 3D energetic field that we're operating in that distorts things and causes us to forget how powerful and perfect and divine we are. And so that's all consciousness, right?  And so like Jesus, for example, has always been like a master teacher for me. And I look at him as like a metaphysician. Like he's just, he learned how to get beyond this 3D limiting lens. And he really remembered that he was the son of God and I believe he was teaching. So I don't, I'm not religious at all in the literal sense, but I do believe that he actually existed and I do believe he was able to cultivate miracles because of his total knowing and remembering that he is a divine being having this human experience. And so as we continue to have that divine connection and cultivate that connection through however we do it in our culture, prayer, meditation, chanting, all of those things, community, like the more connected we are to that higher truth and that love and that power and that omniscience, like the more miracles we can tap into.  So he was an avatar for that. And he, that's why so many people follow his life. But I, you know, I like to just, my, my interpretation is that he was trying to show that he's not, you know, the son of God as far as, and this could be offensive to people. And I apologize. I know we all have our different lenses, but I think he was trying to teach us that we all have that power. We're all just as powerful as he was and that God is love and God is as long as we can allow that intelligence and love to flow through us like anything is possible. And yet he was still thrown up on the cross and, you know, tortured, for lack of a better word, and crucified. Life is not easy, you know, we're still even the most enlightened ones are going to go through gnarly, gnarly hardship.  And that's how our soul evolves and grows. And so, you know, an illness could be a part of that, an illness could be your version of a crucifixion and you may, you may not heal or you may heal and the old part of you dies and it is like a death. So it's still going to be excruciating, you know, but one of the things that just always sits with me is that I know so many people who have gone through the valley, the fire, then the nightmare of cancer. And if they get to the other side and heal, they all look back and they wouldn't wish to repeat it and they wouldn't wish it on their worst enemy because it was really scary and painful, but they also wouldn't change a thing because it made them who they are and it made them into the person and realigned them with their purpose on this planet. So there's a lot of beauty and blessings and lessons in our suffering. And I think Jesus was a, was a, you know, an avatar of that.

Melanie Avalon

It's so empowering.  And speaking to that healing or not, we mentioned her earlier, but Eva with the with the rash. And I think it's a little bit of a shocker. I don't know if it's a shocker. I think maybe, okay, because did you film that in real time? Like she was going through that. So you didn't know if the rash was going to go away? Correct. Yeah. So how did you feel? In the end, she was still at least at the time of the documentary, still struggling with it. And including that, like what was that creative decision like in your thoughts?

Kelly Gores

Yeah, I think it played its purpose of healing is really difficult. She had clear, it was so clear, and we all have blind spots. So when I'm talking about Eva right now, she and you and everybody who knows me could easily sit here and share my blind spots that I'm clueless to. So I don't want this to come off as judgmental, but she was in this cycle of these terrible boils and rashes, and then she would share her story in the film of this childhood trauma where she basically became the mother at seven years old, and her mom was mentally ill and then abandoned, and her father abandoned them, and just really traumatic, traumatic stuff.  And to heal sometimes and to revisit those wounds in order to heal them, they have to come to the surface. They kind of have to reopen to get the oxygen, and we stuff these wounds. We stuff these traumas way down in the recesses and the shadows of our psyche. So sometimes it's too painful to reopen the wound, especially quickly or all at once. And so it just became clear to me that there's a correlation between unprocessed and unhealed trauma there, and she'll be ready to deal with it when she's ready to deal with it. And she was very vulnerable and open, and she even admitted, I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with me. So she just demonstrated, and I think a lot of people related, sometimes you're just not ready to go the full mile, or you got to do baby steps, because it is just too painful. So yeah, it'd be nice if she healed, but at the same time, it was way more powerful that she didn't, and people still follow up on her. For a year after, I sent her all these messages of people going, I know what she has. I know how she can heal. It's interesting. Intuitively, she later took out her implants. She's just doing, over a few years, just peeling back layers of toxicity and mental, emotional, and physical. She recently told me that she was, well, I don't want to share personal stuff. But she's healing in her own way, and I just think she's a powerful example that it looks different on everybody.

Melanie Avalon

Well, I really enjoyed seeing that whole process and yeah, I thought I thought it was a really nice decision to include it, even with that being the ending, because the message is still there and everything that you just shared. Well, this has been so, so amazing, Kelly, like, thank you so much for what you're doing.  I'm curious, are you are you working on other projects or new projects or?

Kelly Gores

Yeah. So I'm pretty excited actually, because for many, many years, everybody's like, when's Heel 2? We want more. And I always just intuitively, I was like, there's not going to be another Heel 2. I don't know how to recreate what I did. It was just such a calling. And I just knew also it was such a calling that I was waiting for that inspiration to strike again. I couldn't just fabricate it to deliver something to people.  I just wanted it to be this divine lightning bolt again. And so anyways, in March of this year, I was in New Zealand, and I was talking about some things I was curious about. And I just got the download of what the next film is going to be about. And it's going to be about emotions and how, as humans, we're never taught how to move through emotion in a healthy way. We're moving 100 miles an hour. We can't feel. We can't feel what we're feeling when we're going at that pace. We're scrolling. We're distracting. We're numbing. We're escaping. We're suppressing. And then we have to deal with it and unpack it 20 years later in the form of disease. So I really just want to explore what the nervous system is, how the emotions and that energy affect organ systems, and just all these ancient wisms that tie it all together so people have the awareness of their bodies, and then how to use the instrument to let emotions flow through them in a healthy way.  Learn how to grieve. Learn when anger can be destructive or constructive. And nobody's ever, we don't have those tools. Or at least, I needed it for me. I'm going through a separation. And so it's been the most intense two years of my life. And then, of course, my house just burned down. And so I'm just laughing now because I told you, the laughing phase of this grieving period.  But God is literally giving me, I got the inspiration for the film. And then I've just gone through the gnarliest emotional period of my life. And I'm like, oh, he's, he, she, it is preparing me to do this film because I have every tool and support system in healer on speed dial. And I was still struggling to just move through these intense emotions. So I don't know, life is a beautiful, painfully beautiful process. And that's going to be my next project.

Melanie Avalon

listeners, we talked before about your house and the situation with the fires. And again, I am just so, so sorry.  And the laughter piece, I really don't know what we would do without laughter. Like, what would we do?

Kelly Gores

We'd cry. We would cry. We would just be crying.

Melanie Avalon

please let me know if I can support you in any way and thank you for doing that because I think that will help so many people. So the last question I ask every single guest on this show and it's just because I realize more and more each day how important mindset is.  So what is something that you're grateful for?

Kelly Gores

I am grateful for my health and my daughter's health. I mean, of course, all my loved ones' health, but every day, I am just so in awe of how health is wealth. I've experienced all different levels of wealth, and without health, everything else falls away. There's just nothing else matters.  I am just so grateful every day that I am healthy, that I'm able bodied, that my daughter is healthy. My heart goes out to parents of children who are dealing with massive challenges, and it's the greatest blessing in the world to have a healthy child.  That's what I'm grateful for.

Melanie Avalon

I love that so much. And again, thank you. I am so grateful for you, Kelly. What I'm really, really grateful about is like there are so many people talking about these topics and, you know, you had so many incredible people in the documentary, which is amazing. And at the same time, I feel like a lot of it stays within its own fishbowl of people who are already in the bowl. And you creating this work, you know, with having it on these distribution platforms, this documentary and things like that, like it reaches such a broader audience. And it exposes so many people to these ideas who they might have never even come across it. And then for people who already are in the fishbowl, you just learn even more and, you know, get more inspiration. So thank you so much.  This was incredible. I look forward to your next project about the emotions. And I'm sending so much love for everything that you're going through with everything in California. So thank you so, so much. Thanks so much for having me. Have a good rest of your day. Thanks. You too. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. For more information and resources, you can check out my book, What, When, When, as well as my supplement line Avalon X. Please visit Melanie Avalon.com to learn more about today's guests and always feel free to contact me at contact at Melanie Avalon.com. And always remember, you got this.