The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #286 - Dr. Amani Ballour

Dr. Amani Ballour is a renowned Syrian pediatrician and human rights activist. She is best known for her work during the Syrian Civil War, where she managed an underground hospital known as "The Cave" in Eastern Ghouta. Her leadership and dedication during this time were the subject of an Oscar-nominated documentary titled "The Cave", released in 2019. Dr. Ballour was awarded the Council of Europe's Human Rights Prize in 2020 for her humanitarian work.
LEARN MORE:
Book: The Cave
Documentary: The Cave
SHOW NOTES
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Dr. Amani Ballour
I believe that as humans, it's our responsibility to help each other and to do whatever we can do. I had a lot to do, you know, to expand the hospital, to get the medical supplies, and rid of that siege with very hard circumstances. But when we have a big massacre and the victims start to come to the hospital, we always work all of us. I think they know about the hospital and they want to destroy it. Health is the most important thing in the life well.
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, where we meet the world's top experts to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and biohack your life? This show is for you. Please keep in mind, we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes you may experience from implementing the tactics lying here in you. Are you ready? Let's do this. Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Friends, words cannot describe the honor, the awe, the gratitude I have for today's conversation. Dr. Amani Balor is such an incredible human. I am just so overwhelmed and my eyes have been so opened watching the Oscar nominated documentary The Cave and reading Dr. Amani's memoir. I talk about this in the show, but I feel like I just have no idea about everything that's actually happening in the world. Dr. Balor was the first woman to lead an underground secret hospital in Syria. Her story truly shows what people are capable of both the horrible side of things and the incredible, powerful, supportive side of things. I was already so nervous and excited to talk to Dr. Balor and then come to find out when I sat down to interview her because I had booked the interview so far out, she actually had stopped doing interviews. So this is her first interview that she did since Assad fled in December and the unfoldings of the Syrian revolution. So we talk about this in the show, but she said this was the first time talking about her experience where she actually felt happy. And I just can't describe enough how grateful I am for this conversation. And I really, really would love to hear what you guys think. Also fun little story that happened. So we actually recorded this episode on a different platform than I normally use. And I was so nervous about losing it that at the end I wasn't closing out the window that the recording was in because I was so nervous about losing it. I was like, I've got to make sure I have the file before I close the window. I didn't realize you had to close the window to get the file. So basically I thought I didn't have the file and I spent maybe half an hour looking for it in a panic state. Finally realized what had happened that I have to actually close the window to get the download. And then I started crying, which was so surprising to me. And we're talking like sobbing. I was just so grateful that I had it. And I was so, so scared and sad at the thought of losing the interview. So yep, that's how you know, this conversation really, really meant a lot to me. We touch on so many topics. We talked about what it was like for her directing a secret underground hospital, the horrors and atrocities of what was going on while her town was under siege in the Syrian civil war, the bombings and the shellings. We talk a lot about the role of empowering women, which I love. And also the difference between religious and personal decisions when it comes to things like how you present yourself as a woman versus coming from a patriarchal society, because Dr.
Melanie Avalon
Bellore is so supportive of female rights, empowering women. And at the same time, she is very conservative. So we talk about that dichotomy. We talk about mental and emotional resilience, the role of sleep, how you can actually make a difference and so much more. And I'm not sure if I talked about this in the episode or outside of the episode, but I'm sending Dr. Amani Bellore an Apollo neuro. It's honestly my favorite biohacking device for helping you sleep, deal with stress, all the things you wear it on your wrist, or you can put it other places on your body. And it uses gentle vibrations to automatically turn off your stress response, which it does by putting your body into the parasympathetic state. I use it every single night of my life. So I definitely, definitely recommend it for you guys. You can go to Melanie Avalon.com slash Apollo neuro. That's A-P-O-L-L-O-N-E-U-R-O and use the coupon code Melanie Avalon to get a massive discount on that. So again, that is Melanie Avalon.com slash Apollo neuro with the coupon code Melanie Avalon to get a major discount. I mean it when this is one of the most treasured conversations I've had on the show. Friends, please let me know what you think. The show notes will be at Melanie Avalon.com slash cave. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. Definitely let me know what you think in my Facebook group. I have biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. Comment something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pinned post to enter to win something that I love. And then check out my Instagram friendly Friday announcement post. And again, comment there to enter to win something that I love. All right. I think that's all the things. Without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation with Dr. Amani Velour. Hi friends. Welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited and just honestly in awe to be in the presence of today's guest. I've been looking forward to this for so long. We were actually talking about this beforehand, how she isn't even really doing interviews anymore. So I'm just so grateful that she's taking the time right now to sit down and talk about all of this. So the backstory behind today's episode, a while ago now, I received a pitch for Dr. Amani Velour's new book. It's called The Cave, a secret underground hospital and one woman's story of survival in Syria. It's a memoir. And I saw the picture and I immediately recognized it because Dr. Velour was also the subject of a documentary in 2019, which was nominated for best documentary at the Oscars. And I recognized it from that and I hadn't watched it at the time, but it was definitely on my radar. So when this came across my desk, I was just an immediate yes. I was like, oh my goodness, I must speak to this woman. So we booked her. I read her memoir. I watched the documentary. I actually watched the documentary with my family. I made them all watch it because I had read the book and I was like, oh my goodness, watching this is going to be just really insane.
Melanie Avalon
So a little bit about Dr. Velour, she is a renowned Syrian pediatrician and human rights activist. And she actually led an underground secret hospital called The Cave in Eastern Ghouta. And friends, the story of her resilience and perseverance and everything that she went through is just absolutely eye-opening. And I will say I tend to, like so much of what I do is to support people's health and wellness and happiness. My eyes are not open to everything that's going on in the world. And this really changed my perspective on so many things and I feel so enlightened. I just have so much gratitude and I'm in awe. So Dr. Velour, thank you so much for all that you're doing and thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Amani Ballour
Thank you so much for having me and for this introduction. Thank you.
Melanie Avalon
I have so many questions for you, but first of all, what I want to ask is you say multiple times in the book where you, you know, you tell your whole journey, you talk about why you're writing the book, what you want people to know, how so often in your experience, you and everybody were kind of shocked by like the international community not helping. You felt like you couldn't reach people was like a feeling that I got. So in this interview today, like what would you most like to share with the audience? What message are you really trying to get out there? And I know that's like a general vague question, but I really want to respect where you want to go with this interview.
Dr. Amani Ballour
Yeah, thank you for your question. Actually, you know, the Syrian Revolution started in 2011, and very quickly the Syrian regime and its allies started to kill the people, oppress them, detain them, torture them to death, and unbomb the safe cities, bomb the hospitals. So, these brutal actions must be told, and we as Syrians, we want all the world to know the truth about what was happening in Syria, especially because, you know, the regime and its allies has strong media tools or something against the Syrian people. Russia was supporting the Syrian regime, Iran was supporting them, and they only call us that we are terrorists. So we wanted, and I wanted from this book, to tell the people the truth, to tell them that we are not terrorists, there were many, many innocent people, many, many children and women were victims for their brutal actions, their bombing. I was besieged in Eastern Ghouta next to Damascus for nearly six years with half a million people, and we were under bombing all these years. They targeted everything, bombed our hospital many times, other hospitals, bombed the safer places, the houses, they scared and killed the children, they prevent food and medicine, and medical supplies to enter. So these atrocities must be told, and a lot of details, you know. In 2019, we showed the documentary you talked about for the people, but I felt like it's not enough. I want the people around the world to know everything was happening, everything about the life under siege in a war zone, about the children, about the victims, about how we feel, about the health workers especially, also, and about the Syrian refugees who tried to get out of Syria to flee themselves, their children, their families to protect themselves so they go through the sea, their suffering, and everything about Syria. I thought it's very important to know all this and all the details about this.
Melanie Avalon
And thank you so much for sharing. And you talk in the book about how the memories never leave you and you have the memories every night and the things that remind you of it and how you wish sometimes you could forget, but you don't want to forget. Is it really hard to talk about it even now?
Dr. Amani Ballour
One month ago, very, very big news happened in Syria. Before that, you know, it was very hard, yes, it was very hard to tell these stories and to talk because I know there's still these families were under the control of the Assad regime. Like just one month ago, very, very big and happy news happened in Syria. We got rid of this regime, Bashar al-Assad flee after, you know, the factions there and the armed groups in Syria start that liberation battle and they start to free the cities one after one. And I can't describe our feelings. All the Syrians, millions of Syrians were watching this, people inside Syria and people in all countries in Europe, in the U.S. We were just hoping in the brain for this to happen. And it happened only in 11 days. And then, yeah, they arrived the mascots, they freed the mascots. Bashar al-Assad fled with his, you know, the big leaders and his family after committing many, many crimes and killing many people, maybe one million or some people say two millions of people they killed. So, yeah, they flee and my country now is free. So now I'm happy talking about this. And this is my first time actually talking and I can't smile and I can't laugh when I talk about this. You know, we were all the time crying and hoping that we get rid of this regime. But now my country is free. And this is very, you know, I mean, we have a lot of emotions and feelings here, a lot to tell about. But yeah, I mean, the Syrian people got enough of this regime, many suffering. I watched many and witnessed many atrocities. I witnessed many children were hungry, were starving, especially in my place, Istanbul. And many of them died, many of cancer patients died because we couldn't get them any kind of treatment. We had no enough tools, no medical devices, no food for the children. I remember when I asked a child and they were as pediatrician there, ask a child about their being, about their fever, for example, and they said, I'm hungry. I want food. You know how hard it is to hear this from a child. So, yeah, we got enough suffering from this regime.
Melanie Avalon
And there's so much like you mentioned just now that you went through, and it's just, it's really, really hard to envision that experience. I'm watching the documentary. I could just tell that everything you're going through, and I felt like I rarely saw, at least in the documentary, like you smile with your eyes. I felt like it was just so hard all the time. And I can hear you smiling in your voice right now, and I'm so happy for you. And for Syria, it's absolutely amazing. Did you think this moment would come?
Dr. Amani Ballour
Well, I never lost the hope. I always try not to be hopeful. I pray for this. But I still, you know, a month ago, it happened a month ago, I still can't believe it happened. I mean, after years, I left Syria six years ago and, you know, started a new life. And just thinking about the people there. I have my family there, actually. My mother is there. I can't imagine this happened, actually. It happened, you know, I can't visit Syria now. Just a few days before the liberation, my husband was saying that you'll never be able to visit Syria. I mean, he said, just forget about it. You can't go there. And now, after a few days, I can't go to Syria. I can't see my mother again. I can't see my family again. So it's, you know, something I couldn't imagine. I always prayed for this. I believe in God. I believe I was hopeful, but yeah, still can't believe it happened.
Melanie Avalon
It's amazing. You can go see your plants that you talk about. There was like a garden.
Dr. Amani Ballour
Yes, there's a big garden next to it. I don't know what happened to it now. After six years, I left, you know, and there's not enough resources. Actually, and to be honest, the situation is bad now in Syria, because, you know, this regime, I can say they destroyed Syria, so there's no electricity, not enough water, you know. This situation is really bad, so people, you know, barely can take care of themselves. So yeah, but I mean, there's still a lot of hope there, a lot of people who want to, I mean, you can see, and I see many, many videos from there, and I'm watching this all the time. You can see the hope and the happiness in people's eyes. I mean, my family now talk to me. We couldn't talk directly before that. Just one month ago, we are able to talk and make video calls. I can't see how happy they are. You know, in spite of everything, I mean, all the suffering, I mean, still, you know, they have only electricity for two hours. It's dark, it's cold, very cold now in winter, and they have nothing for heating. You know, everything, the medical services, everything is bad. But I can feel how happy they are. Just people are going, you know, out and walking in the street. It was hard, you know, to walk on the street, but many, many checkpoints, and, you know, they oppress everyone. They steal the people. They arrest anyone they want. So people were, you know, scared all the time and tried to be hiding in their houses. They go out only when they need something. But now, you know, people in the street, people are happy, and they said, we can build our country. They are very hopeful. Also, the people outside of Syria and me, I mean, we always say, we can build our country. Now we don't have this big corruption. We don't have these people who steal all the country for, I mean, the Shani Assad and his father controlled the country for 54 years. So after all this, I mean, they steal all the wealthy of Syria. So we believe that we can build our country. That's why you will see every Syrian now is very optimistic.
Melanie Avalon
It's so incredible and this is a little bit of a complex question but because this is so amazing everything that's happening. Are you worried people are going to forget what happened?
Dr. Amani Ballour
Now, I always say justice will be done, and now it's possible. I mean, it was very hard before, but not because it's possible. I think you see, and a lot of people have seen many, many detainees in the prisons in Damascus, and how the elaboration, you know, how the people who liberated Syria, they freed many detainees, and they show the people this prison's very bad situation. So these people now are, you know, will continue also to ask for their rights. We, I mean, I have my brother was detained in 2012, and we still don't know nothing about him. So we have to continue this to get justice for them. They found, unfortunately, many, many mass graves, and this regime killed many people. Like when only one grave have like 100,000 dead bodies, they found only bones. So we want to know about our, you know, our families, our loved ones. We need to know their faith, what happened to them. I want to know what happened to my brother. And of course, you know, there's nobody now still alive. The prisons are empty now. So they all died. Like many, many disappeared people are died. So we have the right to know their faith, what happened to them, where are they? And maybe to have, you know, a grave for them, maybe we can visit their graves. So this is important now to continue the accountability path, and especially because Bashar al-Assad feed to Russia, and he's there now, and he's safe. And I think he must be held accountable for what he did, and with his, you know, his family and his war leaders who committed these crimes. So we have to continue this path until we get justice.
Melanie Avalon
There's definitely still a really long road ahead. Speaking to what you mentioned a little bit earlier with the film and how there was some censorship surrounding the film, I just want to paint a picture for the audience, if they haven't seen the film or read your book, about how intense and horrible these situations were. I'm curious, when the producers were making the documentary, did they ask you if you wanted to have more shown in the film or not?
Dr. Amani Ballour
Yes, actually, they wanted to film a lot, they wanted to film me not only in the hospital, they asked to film me in my family house, and yeah, it was very hard and it was very dangerous to me and to my family to be filmed, you know, and to be shown under, you know, the control of the Syrian regime.
Melanie Avalon
Were you really worried that something was going to happen from being in the media?
Dr. Amani Ballour
I was worried, you know, because senior regime used to kill the witnesses, to kill the doctors who treat the patients and the victims, because, you know, they are very brutal. So yeah, I was actually afraid, and many times they came to me three times. I remember the cinematographers who filmed this documentary, they came to me three times, and I said, no, I can't do that, don't film the hospital, it's dangerous. Then, you know, after many massacres happened there, and the senior regime killed many, many people, I said, we might, you know, be killed, all of us, and no one know about us, and no one know the truth. So I felt that time that it's important to tell the truth. And they said, this film will not be shown now, I mean, when we are there, under siege, they said it will be shown in the future, when we make sure you are safe, or when this regime fallen or something. Actually, it happened after I left Syria, the film was shown, but my family is still there, and some of the people who were in the hospital, they still there. So also it was dangerous for them. I remember after also I talked about the chemical attacks, the senior regime filmed my father there, inside Syria, they went to him, and they filmed him, and they forced him to say that, no, this is lies, there were no chemical attacks, and he said, my daughter is lying, and something like that. They forced him to say this, and you know, they filmed in my family house, and in the hospital again, and they said that there were terrorist people here, and you know, something like that. Because you know, they have the control, and they can't force anyone to say what they want. So yeah, and this makes me very sad, because my father passed away after this, a year after this, I was able to talk to him over the phone, but you know, it's still, you know, I'm very sad, because I couldn't see him, and he couldn't witness the falling of this regime.
Melanie Avalon
When I was reading about that, about how they made your family denounce you, did your family tell you that they were making them do that or did you just have to assume that is what was happening?
Dr. Amani Ballour
Yeah, I remember my father at that time was very afraid to take to talk to me directly. My niece talked to me and she explained and she told me everything happened. He said they came many, many times to your father and explained to him what he has to say and then they forced him to do this video and to say this. But after this, my father got a bladder cancer and he was very, very sick and he thought that he's going to die so he doesn't fear anymore. And he talked to me directly on the phone and he said, no, I don't care now about them. And yeah, we were able to talk after that, but they didn't do anything for him before he died.
Melanie Avalon
So the cave, the secret underground hospital, did the regime know about it?
Dr. Amani Ballour
it? Yes, I think because, you know, there's many maybe agents or people work for the Syrian regime. We were nearly half a million people under siege, so we don't know everyone. But I said yes, they know about the hospital because the Syrian regime bombed the hospital many times. It was underground. We tried to protect it with, you know, what we can what we could do that time. Many, many bags of sand to protect the hospital. And in spite of this, they bombed the hospital. And I remember once, especially happened after after Russia and military supported the Syrian regime, they bombed the hospital and the missile entered in the basement and it killed the three of my colleagues. So, yeah, that was horrible. I think they know about the hospital and they purposely want to destroy it.
Melanie Avalon
And the patients that you were treating, how many of them were patients from attacks and how many were, because it was a hospital, because watching it, you know, you see all the attacks, so I'm assuming it makes it seem like everybody you're treating is from attacks, but was it also just people going to the hospital normally?
Dr. Amani Ballour
No, we receive everyone in the hospital, everyone have any case. But because of the massive bombing, every day, every day bombing and a lot of casualties. So you see other people who have different cases, they become very patient and wait at home. They don't come to the hospital and they have very serious case or something because they are afraid to come to the hospital. They know that the Syrian regime is bombing the hospital always. So they don't come. But I mean, yeah, we have different cases. We receive everyone. We treat all the cases with what we have. I mean, you know, we don't have we didn't have enough medical supplies for everyone.
Melanie Avalon
And then on top of that, so it's so incredible. So you are a woman in Syria and this hospital implemented a voting system. And so the original director was a man and then I believe there were two successors. And then you were a woman voted by everybody to be the director. And you talk about how you had to face gossip and backlash. And so what was that like treating people, trying to help people and receiving backlash about being a woman?
Dr. Amani Ballour
You know, I come from a conservative community. And you know, this is the community in Syria, and they're still like this. I mean, in most country sites in Syria, not in the cities, and you know, some also families in the cities are still conservative in Syria. So they don't want, or they don't like to see a woman in a position that controls other men, especially in the hospital. We were nearly 100% working in the hospital, and 9% are men. And only, I remember 12 women was working there. So they don't want a woman to control all this men. They don't, I mean, they don't, it's our customs and traditions. There is no clear reason for this. I never believe that women can't do something, or women has to stay at home, or I never convince why they believe that. It's just, you know, traditions. It's not about religion, by the way, because you know, I'm religious, I consider myself religious. So it's not about religion. There's nothing in religion prevent that. But you know, I remember many men came to me, and they said, I remember when an educated person who was working in the hospital with me, and he was young, he's educated, and he said, we had no problem. We have no problem with you, you are our colleague, but we don't want the women to control us. And I remember this, you know, made me very frustrated because he was young, and I don't want the next generation to have the same thoughts about women. I want to change this idea about women. Actually, who chose me, who voted for me to be the director of the hospital, are my colleagues, I mean, like, 11 doctors, but not everyone, mostly in the in my town, they don't want women, as I said, so it was hard to hear this all the time. I remember many, many people who were saying this, and some of them say this to me, and some of them, you know, speak just everywhere in the town talking about me. That made me frustrated because I had a lot to do, you know, to expand the hospital, to get the medicine and the medical supplies, and made off the siege with very hard circumstances, to make the hospital work, you know, well, and to be able to receive all the casualties, and a lot of work, you know, and beside this, I have to fight because I'm a woman, and to defend myself, and to say, you know, I can do that. I mean, to say why I can do that, and to explain this for everyone, and this is very simple for, I mean, why do I have to explain that I can do this, I am a woman, and I can do this, but this is, you know, how it looks to me. So it was very hard to hear this all the time, but that motivated me and encouraged me to continue to keep going because I really wanted to prove for these people that there's no difference, I can lead the hospital, I might be better than other directors, and the hospital was doing well that time, and I'm very happy because I heard from some of these men before we left, I heard that they came to me and they said, you were right, and you did a great job. So, you know, you can imagine how happy I was because I hear this from these old men, because they have this old time traditions and thoughts, so I was able to change their thoughts about women.
Dr. Amani Ballour
So, you know, that was very like a victory for me.
Melanie Avalon
You did so much, you, you know, you rebuilt rooms, you hired new people, changed the organization, you talked about how there wasn't really good organization with people's schedules and how people were working. You got a monthly budget that you secured, you know, worked with funding, like you did, you did so much and something I love and it's really interesting because you're talking about, you know, women, empowering women, but the women themselves also have to be open to it because one of the things you were doing was you would go, basically would you go to widows with children and try to offer to employ them at the hospital, right? And then sometimes they, like, was that, was that hard? Were they not really always open to that?
Dr. Amani Ballour
I didn't do that many times because the places and jobs in the hospital was very competitive. So there's no, I mean, if there's a vacancy for someone, you know, many, many people want to do the work. So I prefer to hire women because not only because they are a woman, also I like this inside myself. I really wanted to have more women in the hospital because it's unfair. I mean, why 90% of men, we have enough women in the town. But because, you know, they were able to do the work. I know they were able to do that. I visited not many, many widows, but I remember once of them, I offered her the job because I knew her situation. She's young, she can do this. She has children who needs really, you know, income to take care of them. So yeah, and not, it's not easy to convince a woman in my town, not all of them, but many women have the same thoughts with other men that they believe that they have to stay at home. They believe that the work, you know, my work wasn't for women and they believe that I have to, not to stay at home. They say you can work in your clinic as a pediatrician, but not to manage a hospital, to, you know, be in a position that control other men. So it's not easy to convince this woman about this, but I mean, I think it was the good thing that I was able to do is to prove that I can do this, to start, you know, with myself. Like the first woman can do this and, you know, they will see that and they will, you know, think about it. They believe that they can do also something. So this is what I try to do.
Melanie Avalon
I love, it reminds me of the scene in the documentary when you're talking to a young girl and you're asking her what she wants to be when she grows up and you're just expanding her mind about all the potentials of all the things that she can be. And it's just a really, really beautiful moment. I love the passion you have about empowering women and changing this patriarchal society. Also, how do you feel about those feelings and ideas and also still living a conservative lifestyle personally? And what I'm thinking of is like when you went to the Oscars which is a completely different experience, you had to decide what to wear and how to dress and whether or not to wear makeup and all of that at the Oscars. And you did dress conservatively and you say in the book that you actually got backlash from people for that. And so I'm just wondering for you as a woman in society and in culture, do you struggle with how you present yourself as a woman physically or is that like a different thing? Is that more about religion and conservatism rather than women's rights?
Dr. Amani Ballour
I'm lucky because my family didn't oppress me to wear something. That was my choice. And it's more about religion. It's not about my community, especially I'm living now. I live in the US. And I lived in Germany for nearly two years. It's about religion. It's not about, I mean, my community, their customs. I can now I'm totally free. I can represent myself. Whatever I want, I can wear whatever. And I have this, you know, the way that I look is because of, this is what I, it's religion and I like to wear this. And I respect the people to respect my choice. That, you know, because when I went to the Oscars and that's a little bother me because some people and some Syrian people actually criticized the way that I wear. I mean, I went there because I wanted to highlight the Syrian issue to tell more people, you know, because it's very big event. So I wanted to tell more people about Syria, what's happening there to get help from them to the Syrian people. That was very important to me. I want for, you know, a humanity, a humanitarian reason. So I didn't expect people to look at me and what I wear. It's, you know, it's an event for the, you know, actors and people look at them and, but it's not about me. I mean, I went with a documentary film, it's real. So it is, I expect people to hear what I say, to listen to me, to watch their documentary and take their responsibility as humans, you know, to help other people. I don't care about, you know, how I look and about, you know, anything else. So yeah, I have the right to wear what I want and I expect everyone to respect other people choices, how they wear, how they look. It's not something, you know, it's not our business.
Melanie Avalon
I love this so much, that is so incredible. It's a little bit ironic, you know, that you were going to the Oscars and the Oscars are known, they're known for being, you know, all of this focus on what people are wearing. So I applaud you for just being you and everything that you just said. I agree, I think people should wear whatever they wanna wear. And then speaking of, you were there to, you know, speak all of this truth. You also spoke a few times in front of the UN Security Council and you talked about how one of the times you spoke, the ambassador for the regime was actually there. And you talked about how you weren't afraid. What was that experience like and where did that confidence come from?
Dr. Amani Ballour
especially after I left Syria, I want to tell everyone about Syria. I want really to talk to media, to everyone, because there is a lot of suffering inside Syria, and no one cares, no one helps them. And I couldn't imagine that I will stay for six years under siege with many, many children and women, and no one protect them. I mean, it was a huge bombing, and preventing food, I mean, in this time, I mean, there's a lot of food here, so why no one helps these people? It was very important to me to speak up and to talk loudly. When I was invited to speak in the Security Council, I said, of course, I will do that. And you know, I felt like I'm right, and I have the right to talk, and you know, I talk on behalf of all these oppressed people. So I, you know, I feel like I'm strong, more than the members of the Security Council. Really, I just wanted to shout and to say everything I witnessed. I briefed the Council twice, so I can't explain how frustrated and disappointed I was after that, because, you know, nothing happened, nothing changed. And yeah, Syria continued to be under bombing, and now most of Syria is destroyed, actually. People are under bombing for 14 years. People are still suffering. Nearly there were two million people living in camps, very, very bad circumstances. And now, after Syria is free, and many people went back to their homes, and by the way, the international community did nothing to free Syria, actually. The Syrian people who freed their country, actually, they are who freed the detainees and the prison people who were torturing or being tortured for many, many years. The international community did nothing for them. The Syrian people who freed their country. And still, you know, there's a big suffering. And I called the international community now to take their responsibility and to do what they didn't do before. I mean, Syria still needs help. There's now also nearly a million people living in the camp because there were no homes for them. Their houses are destroyed, so they have nowhere. I mean, Syria is very now in very bad situations, still need help. You can't imagine the situation of the public hospitals there. They had nothing because this regime, I mean, they steal everything, the corruption there. There is nothing for the people. If someone needs to do a surgery, can you imagine the doctors there and the hospital ask the patient to bring everything, even the gloves for the surgeon? Oh, wow. You have to bring everything and come. And then they discuss with the surgeon how much they have to pay. So it's a very bad situation. Prices are expensive. The food is expensive. So, yeah, people are still suffering. So I call the international community to help. I mean, Syria still needs help. You didn't do anything to help them. You didn't do enough. And I think it's their responsibility to help at least the children. So I wish they can do something now.
Melanie Avalon
To that point, because reading your book, I was just horrified by everything that was happening. I literally, I had no idea. I really had no idea. So reading it, my eyes were opened. And also I felt, I felt a little bit helpless because I was thinking, okay, if I had known all of this was happening at the time, like what could I have done practically? Like, what could I have actually done? Like, so, so what, what can people actually do? What will, what will actually manifest and helping?
Dr. Amani Ballour
I believe that as humans it's our responsibility to help each other and to do whatever we can do. I mean now as I said Syria is free, no more the Syrian regime and the U.S. is stop some of sanctions or they do I don't know exactly what they did for six months now people can help Syria and you know as I said this Syria now is living like in 90s maybe they have no enough for everything so people can do a lot now especially talk to their governments to their you know parliaments to support the new administration in Syria now because this will support the Syrian people we have all to stand together now and in hand to build our country so people can donate people can speak up tell about Syria tell everyone you know make a pressure on the politicians to help Syria this is very important now because it needs you know countries efforts not enough you know Syrian people can do a lot but we need a lot for also to rebuild the country was you know tried for 14 years and was under operation and under under the control of this family the asset family for 54 years so you can imagine how much it needs so yeah I think I believe everyone can do something as a humans it's our responsibility.
Melanie Avalon
And I thank you because you've created all these resources, like I said, for people to actually see it. So reading your book, watching the documentary, it's on Amazon Prime, people can easily watch it. I highly recommend it. I just want everybody to watch it. So this show is a lot about health and wellness. When you were working in the cave and enduring everything, okay, I just have a practical question. How much did you sleep? Because I talk about sleep all the time on this show, the importance of sleep. Like, were you sleeping at all? How were you sleeping?
Dr. Amani Ballour
Yeah, actually, yeah, I mean, it's not only about how much I sleep, it's how, you know, the situation there, I mean, under bombing, and you expect bombing anytime. And I remember, you know, many times during the night when we are sleeping, they bombed very close to us. Once I remember, I was sleeping, like it was 1am, and they bombed my, our neighbor house, and they destroyed it. It's very, I was very, very close to me. And I just wake up scared. And I remember my nephews, they are, you know, very little kids, they were sleeping, and they just, you know, got up and got, you know, very scared and start, you know, crying. So the quality of sleeping is very bad. I mean, you expect to die anytime, anytime they might bomb you. And we sleep, and we hear this, the sound of the blades, and it's helicopters or something like that, which, you know, it's always in the sky. So yeah, we try to sleep anytime we have, you know, sometimes with no casualties, we finish our shift or something. But when we have a big massacre, and the victims start to come to the hospital, we always work all of us. So you can say it's not my shift or something like that. But yeah, we had some time to sleep, but you can imagine how we sleep.
Melanie Avalon
And then on top of that, I talk about the importance of sleep and I talk about the importance of like light exposure and you were underground a lot, you know, like artificial lighting. You're talking about, you know, it's dangerous outside. So do you sleep okay now and do you have a lot of PTSD?
Dr. Amani Ballour
Well, after I left Syria, I remember I couldn't sleep well. I was always happy, you know, like me. I remember all the time, you know, I remember that I couldn't sleep because I still, you know, remember the kids I treated, the people, the people who died, the victims, the people who, for example, who lost their arms, their legs. I think a lot about these people, especially, you know, for first year and second year maybe after I left and yeah, then, you know, I tried to start a new life. It was very hard and I actually started a new life for three times. It's not easy, you know, I'm in my 30s and I started in Turkey and then I moved to Germany and then so it still, you know, have, you know, some problems with the sleeping, but you know, I, I'm trying, you know, to recover myself. I pray, I read Quran and this helped me a lot. So this was good of me. And but no, actually I had three little kids. Oh, you have three kids now? Yeah, I have three years old son and I have 18 month twins. So yeah. Oh my goodness. Tell me to sleep enough.
Melanie Avalon
I know, now you're not sleeping. Anyways, oh my goodness. Okay, cause yeah, in the, when you wrote the book, you just had your son and it was interesting. You talked about how when you had your son, it was like, you know, seeing an infant was actually triggering your memories from being in the cave. What was your experience like becoming a mother?
Dr. Amani Ballour
You know, it was very hard to me, very, very hard feeling when I look at my son, when he was a baby. I remember other babies that I treated. I remember the babies who died under bombing, and it was very hard to me. I always have this feeling, especially I stayed at home with my son. I didn't work that time, so I stayed alone with my baby for a few months. So, yeah, I really suffered that time. I got so bored, you know, from my husband, my family, on the phone. But, you know, it was a very hard time because I witnessed a lot, and I always say, I thank God because I wasn't a mother when I was working in the hospital. It's a very, very hard feeling. I can't imagine how I could do that. Now, when I look at a baby, especially after I left, you know, they were still bombing, and I look at the kids, and I feel like my son was there. My son is covered with blood. My son is, you know, having, you know, some of these injuries, and this is a very bad feeling. I, you know, always imagine every child I see, and now the children, we are still in Gaza. Also, I look at them, and I feel like one of them is my son. So, you can't, you can't imagine how hard it is. Now, after Syria is free, I feel these children more, and I feel how, what they need after, you know, 14 years. The whole generation, I can say, they are, they couldn't, many, many of them, they couldn't go to school, they couldn't have, you know, their, I mean, services, especially in the camps. So, I feel these people, so I will do what I can to continue, you know, with other Syrians, to continue supporting our families and our people in Syria.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. You talk about the moment when it was after you left Syria and you were going to work in a hospital and you had your first patient and you just couldn't do it anymore. What was that moment like when you decided to stop practicing being a pediatrician and do you miss it? Would you wanna do that again? Thank you.
Dr. Amani Ballour
Well, yeah, it was very hard to me after I left after six years of the siege and then I left to north of Syria. It was very hard to start working again in a new place but with the same circumstances with the bad situation. I remember, yeah, I went to the incubators and to see the kids are suffering again, you know, I couldn't continue working. I remember it was very hard to me. Actually, I couldn't continue my studying. In 2012, I started to study Beatiathrics for only like less than a year. So that's why I felt like I need to continue my studying because I will be more useful for my people. That's why I didn't back. I can now, you know, I think I can go back to Syria to work as a doctor, but I don't want to work as a pediatrician actually. If I do something, I will do it. Of course, I will do it. If I feel any time that children or someone needs me, I will help, of course, but I prefer if there's enough doctors who will go back to Syria, I prefer not to work as a pediatrician because, yeah, it is very hard to me.
Melanie Avalon
I completely understand that. And like, how do you feel living in the US? Would you like to move back to Syria?
Dr. Amani Ballour
Actually, the U.S. is hosting us, they protect me and my family, and I'm really thankful for them, and also thankful to Germany and Turkey, because also they receive Syrian people and any other countries that receive us. But I love Syria, and I would love to go back to Syria. Now, I'm still unable to go. The liberation happened just one month ago. My husband and I don't have passports, actually. We need to renew our passports, and maybe to finish my husband's work here and to start to find a new job, because we are a big family now. I have three kids, so it's not easy to move now and do everything. So, we're doing some process here, and I wish that finally I will live in Syria.
Melanie Avalon
I will put that out there and I want to send you because so this show, like I said, a lot of it is about health and wellness and biohacking. I don't know if you've heard this word biohacking, but it's using different technology and tools and tips to just help your health and your physical health, your mental health. Have you heard of Apollo neuro by chance? No, I want to send you one. And so I've done a few episodes on it and it's this device that you put, you can put on your wrist, you can put on your ankle, but he created it, has like eight clinical trials published, 13 ongoing, and it's, he created it originally for people with PTSD. I used it to help my insomnia, my sleep, but it basically creates like very gentle vibrations. And so it tells your body that you're safe. So it's incredible for if you're having like triggers or PTSD or stress or insomnia or sleep issues. It's, it's amazing. Like it helps. So I want to send you one because I think it would really help your sleep and everything if you'd like. I'm just thinking about that. Yeah. Thank you. All via the biohacking. So wow. I, okay. So again, I'm just, I'm so honored. Is there anything else that you would like to share with the audience about your experience about what people can do about what people need to know?
Dr. Amani Ballour
No, thank you so much for having me and for being patient to listen to my stories.
Melanie Avalon
I'm just so grateful, so friends, get the book. It's called The Cave, A Secret Underground Hospital and One Woman's Story of Survival in Syria. Watch the documentary. I promise it will open your eyes and you will just realize the intensity of everything that we're talking about. The last question that I ask every single guest on this show, and it's just because I so appreciate the importance of mindset. So what is something that you're grateful for?
Dr. Amani Ballour
I'm grateful for being healthy, me and my family and my kids and I think everyone has to be grateful for being healthy. Health is the most important thing in their life. I love it.
Melanie Avalon
that so much. Thank you again, Dr. Bellora. I will never, I will just forever be grateful for what you're doing. And I wish you all the best with your kids and, you know, your future, maybe going back to Syria, all the things. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. For more information, you can check out my book, What Win Wine? Lose weight and feel great with paleo style meals, intermittent fasting and wine, as well as my blog, melanieavalon.com. Feel free to contact me at podcast at melanieavalon.com. And always remember, you got this.