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The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #100 - Dr. Que Collins

Co-Founder and Principal Investigator, the Center for Deuterium Depletion – the first clinic in the world to use deuterium and tracer technologies to describe and follow athletic performance as well as the health status of patients with metabolic disorders such as cancer, diabetes and autoimmune disorders. Former Principal Investigator, Epigenix Foundation – this not-for-profit organization created by the founders of Quest Nutrition promotes research to prevent and ameliorate disease, maximize quality of life and/or improve personal performance. Co-Founder and Former Principal Investigator, Ketopet Sanctuary – a 53-acre ranch outside Austin, Texas that uses the ketogenic diet and other metabolic therapies with and without standard of care to treat dogs with naturally occurring cancers.

Instagram: @ddcenters


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3:40 - IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life: Join Melanie's Facebook Group For A Weekly Episode GIVEAWAY, And To Discuss And Learn About All Things Biohacking! All Conversations Welcome!

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6:35 - FOOD SENSE GUIDE: Get Melanie's App To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, histamine, Amine, glutamate, oxalate, salicylate, sulfite, and thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, reactions To Look For, lists of foods high and low in them, the ability to create your own personal lists, And More!

9:15 - Dr. Collin's Background

12:10 - diet and cancer

The Cancer Code: A Revolutionary New Understanding of a Medical Mystery (Dr. Jason Fung)

17:10 - living with cancer vs killing it

18:10 - metabolism of cancer 

21:40 - the Correlation of depression in African Americans and poor health metrics 

23:30 - what is deuterium?

27:40 - the deuterium component of food

29:20 - making energy from food with nanomotors

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The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #38 - Connie Zack
The Science Of Sauna: Heat Shock Proteins, Heart Health, Chronic Pain, Detox, Weight Loss, Immunity, Traditional Vs. Infrared, And More!

35:25 - levels of deuterium in water and ice over time

37:35 - origins of Mitochondria 

39:55 - deuterium and the microbiome

41:30 - difference between hydrogen In food vs Water

45:50 - the weight of energy

47:50 - what are our true water needs?

55:30 - the cooling nature of water

57:30 - the body's use of water

58:30 - cellular communication

1:00:00 - how is deuterium measured, and what should our levels be?

1:04:10 - the average deuterium levels and how to deplete it appropriately

1:06:30 - the center for deuterium depletion

1:08:00 - the relationship of deuterium to all parts of society

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1:11:45 - The Ketogenic Diet

1:11:50 - the deuterium depleted diet

1:19:35 - oxygenated water

1:22:20 - Managing Deuterium Levels With Light Therapy

1:25:50 - Deuterium Depleted Water Protocol

1:29:30 - Metabolism With Breathing Exercise

1:31:10 - Where to Buy:
Kure Oxygen Water
Center For Deuterium Depletion

1:32:30 - who should buy?

1:35:00 - Metformin and Berberine


Melanie Avalon: Hi friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly thrilled and excited about the conversation that I am about to have. It is a long, long time coming for me. The background on this is, it was probably about two years ago now or so. I was doing an interview on red light therapy, and this was the first time that I heard of a concept called, and this is a word that I feel like most people don't know much about at present, but that is deuterium. Specifically, deuterium-depleted water. I was doing an episode on red light therapy, and they were talking about how red light and near infrared light could affect potentially our deuterium levels in our body. They mentioned Dr. Que Collins, and said that I just simply had to connect with him. This was about two years ago. It was always on my list to find this wonderful human being.

Since then, I had seen deuterium pop up here and there, but it was never massively in my face. Then, I don't know how long ago it was now, but probably a few months ago, Dr. Collins’ people reached out to me about getting him on the show. It was such a moment, I was like, “Yes, I've been dying to connect with him anyway.” Since then, listeners, friends, I have dived a little bit deeper into deuterium. I honestly think this might be one of the most important things that we could address in our health and wellness. I actually mean that, and I haven't even had the interview yet. So, I'm really excited to see what all I learn. Dr. Collins, thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Que Collins: Well, thank you so much, Melanie. As I said, I'm a fanboy, so I am so happy.

Melanie Avalon: Dr. Collins and I were talking before the call about our similar universes and everything, so I'm just so thrilled about this conversation. For those who are not familiar with you, I'll let listeners know a little bit about your work. You have a very, very impressive resume. You have a PhD in clinical immunology, and MS in oncotherapeutics, and MA in business and health policy, a BS in poverty health care and cancer epidemiology. You are the co-founder and the principal investigator at the Center for Deuterium Depletion, which I'm sure we'll talk about. You're also a former principal investigator at the Epigenetics Foundation, which was created by the founders of Quest Nutrition for research in disease and maximizing quality of life. You are the cofounder and former principal investigator, this is so cool, at the Ketopet Sanctuary, which uses the ketogenic diet for dogs with naturally occurring cancers, that is just very cool. That's a lot, so many things. Thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Que Collins: No, thank you for the invitation. This is just fantastic.

Melanie Avalon: To start things off, I am just dying to know a little bit about your personal story. You've become known as the deuterium guy, but there's a lot of interest in your life with health and wellness. What is your personal story and what did ultimately lead you to the focus today on deuterium depletion?

Dr. Que Collins: My PhD was in immunology, and I worked for a long time both for Big Pharma, making antibodies and growth factors and antibiotics, doing a lot of different things, but really focused on cancer and how can we get rid of cancer. I did that for a long time. Then I left, and running my own businesses and cancer and health related businesses with bringing up hospitals and working actually in Africa and South America, looking at epidemiology of cancer associated with goldmines, a lot of different things like that. Make a long story short, later in my life, my daughter developed cancer and I lost her to cancer. Then little bit later, my wife, same thing. With my wife, we really, really started to look at things because it just seemed a standard of care when even it wasn't working. It didn't give people any chance, even though I knew really the best scientists and physicians in the country that worked on different kinds of cancers. She particularly had what was called a glioblastoma, which is a brain cancer and the most lethal of all cancers. She really introduced me to the ketogenic diet almost 10 years ago, I laughed about that and I'm sure your audience would appreciate it being the know-it-all scientists who knew more than everybody. She came into my office one day and said, “Hey, I found something on the internet, something about diet and cancer.” I laughed at her and said, “Oh, honey, come on. Those Dr. Internets never right. Let me take care of this.”

I called everybody, I tried to do everything and even people that loved her as much as I did, and we didn't have anything for, there was just nothing there. [laughs] She knew me so well, we were married for 35 years. She knew me so well, that she bound all the papers up in the leather binder, and she walked in my office and said, “Read this, asshole,” [laughs] to which I had to laugh, and as I go through the papers, I'm like, “Oh, this is very interesting.” Ketogenic, I never heard of this.” They didn't teach us in medical school. They didn't teach us in grad school. Reading more and go, “Huh, that's interesting. Oh, my God, that's even more interesting. Oh, my-- this looks real.”

I picked up a phone, I called Tom Seyfried, and he had just a couple of papers just to ask him what this was all about. To my surprise, he called me back probably an hour later and he hadn't written his book yet, but he was telling me all about this. The guy was just amazing, and just so passionate about what he did, and he converted me. From there, he gave me Dominic D'Agostino’s telephone number. I called Dominic and became friends with Dominic, understanding what he does, and then going to the rest of the people that were in the field. Then from there, people don't know that now the ketogenic diet is pretty-- everybody knows what ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting and what metformin is. Back then, we didn't know. So, I was really investigating, and probably most of the things that people use today, we really-- I started a-- what I call the pet cancer trial. What I did was to actually treat dogs that had cat natural kind of cancers. If you had a dog in your home, I would experiment by making this new kind of ketogenic diet, and metformin, and all these other cool things that you could do, including exogenous ketones, which were being made down by Dominic. The first person, really in the world, as far as I know that got the combination of all these things was my wife. And if it worked in a dog, it went straight to her. And it was amazing.

She was given five weeks to live when we first found out what was going on. She lived about two years longer using these ketogenic diets and things we found out about hyperbaric oxygen therapy, things we found about intermittent fasting and recipes. It was fantastic. We really got appreciation from that. We really probably would have made a breakthrough if she had still been with us, I really, truly believe this. When she had a brain cancer, she was diagnosed with a bad heart, but we found out afterward it wasn't her heart, it was actually her brain making people think it was our heart. So, they gave her a pacemaker, she didn't need it. By getting a pacemaker, she wasn't able to do the last piece of the puzzle at the time, which was hyperbaric oxygen therapy, because the pressure was too great on her heart.

We could slow the cancer down, and that's what a ketogenic diet can do, when it's done very well. But it can't kill it, and you need something else to kill it. That's how I got here. My journey goes on from there, but that's how I got here, folks, is a labor of love. What I do now continues to be that, trying to find a solution that will not only-- I'm past the point of trying to cure cancer, but allow you to live with it, keep it at bay, so you can have a higher quality of life, and not only live longer, but live better.

Melanie Avalon: That's a really beautiful story. Have you read Dr. Jason Fung’s new book, The Cancer Code?

Dr. Que Collins: Yeah, I love Jason. It's so funny, I love his stuff. It's great being older, because what I'm finding is so many people are rediscovering stuff that we knew. I followed his work because it's a lot like the-- one of the other things I found it was metabolic oncology back when I was in Quest, and now that's becoming a big word around the circuit, everybody-- but he does a lot of the things that I used to do. I love how he puts it because he writes it, and he says things so well, so I really do love it.

Melanie Avalon: I interviewed him really recently about that book. One of the things I was thinking about from it that you were just talking about, he didn't really go super deep into this, but he did talk about the mathematical approach to cancer and how it actually might make more sense to live with cancer rather than killing it. Do you know I'm talking about from a mathematical perspective?

Dr. Que Collins: Here's an interesting thing. I go through this with our patients all the time. That is, most people with stage 4 cancer don't die from the cancer, they die from the therapy. The chemotherapy, getting depressed, radiation. These things are very, very toxic. The idea is to kill everything in your body, and then allow your body to recover. That's really it. Every time that you have it, and you go into remission, the next time it comes back, they kill you again, they kill you every time, to the point your body can't come back. What Jason is talking about is really looking at the data that's out there that talks about not only the lifespan, but how cancer grows and this metabolism.

A metabolism of a cancer cell is completely different than the metabolism of a normal cell. As Jason will tell you, and one of the things he always talks about is how things cooperate. In your normal body, all your normal cells work together, and they work together for a common goal. The common goal is to keep you healthy, and for them to live too. Cancer cells are like what's been happening in this country that is falling apart, that nobody's working together anymore. Cancer cells, the only thing they want to do is live, and they want to simply multiply, and they turn off all the other genes that they have, all those other genes that are important for a normal cell to live and cooperate, those are all off. The only genes that are revved up in cancer cells are to eat and to divide.

That is where we're coming from now, and that what we try to look at is, what we call is better cancer outcomes. We've collected thousands and thousands of published papers, and we're trying to find using machine learning or what people like to call AI, to find out what are the most important things for cancer patient to understand and use, what will work and what won't work so there's no questions. And then, you can get a set of markers. Those set of markers will allow you to be able to follow to see if what you're doing is working. It is taking what Dr. Fung says a step further. We're going to try to create a map. People may be acquainted with this. I'm a former athlete. What we know is when you have the best athletes on the planet, they know every single thing about what you do, how fast I ran the 100-meter dash, and they know everything in the world about that 9.9 seconds, that 10.1 seconds in your life. They know about how fast you start, they know about what you've eaten, they know about everything, to make sure that you're going to be able to have an opportunity to win that race. We've taken that same approach to understand how it is to be able to that biohacking approach, really. It's really what it is, but applying it to not just being healthy and well, but how can you use that biohacking approach for to survive cancer, to be diabetes, to stay younger? I love biohacking, but I always laugh because the people that use biohacking look pretty darn good to begin with.

I think the interesting part is, what we try to apply, what I've been searching this last half of my career for, is finding something that applies using these biohacking techniques, not just for the 25-year-old to stay younger, but the fix the people that need fixing, the people that have diseases function, to give people more out of their life, so they can enjoy and have a bigger quality of life. And that starts with things as simple as we're seeing with depression, African American or black Americans, and the paper that was recently released about now how we're thinking that possibly a lot of these differences in health metrics between African Americans and the larger population is because of this low level of depression and anxiety that we have. Maybe that's the connection between heart disease and obesity. Still some very interesting things that if we can start using this biohacking approach, and more importantly, giving power back to the people because that's what biohacking is all about.

Biohacking is about empowering people to have, I like to call it self-health, not just health, but self-health to get your own self more resilient, stronger, and get your health stronger, but also realize that, where I come in, and it's not only about you, but it's about you making sure the people around you and your community, and the rest of the globe is equally as tuned in and has equal access to all this knowledge, so we can empower the world to get better and healthier.

Melanie Avalon: That is one of the most beautiful definitions I think I've ever heard of biohacking, and I cannot agree more. That's one of the beauties of things like podcasting, and why I'm so grateful just to talk to people like yourself, because we can dive deep into these topics that can have such a profound effect on so many people and share it and get it out there. Especially coming back to the topic of today's episode with deuterium, the more I look into it, you're doing amazing things with it but I feel like beyond a few key figures, it's just not very known. I just want to learn all about it and share it. Even for example, we were just talking about like the cancer connection. I actually emailed Dr. Fung a few days ago, because I told him, I was interviewing you and I wanted to know if he had come across research on deuterium when he was researching for The Cancer Code. He said he hadn't come across much, which just I think speaks to how much we need to talk about it. With that in mind, what is deuterium?

Dr. Que Collins: Here it is, it's so simple now. We all know what hydrogen is. Hydrogen is the smallest element that's known to man, has molecular weight of one is that H, that's on the periodic charts, and the H and H2O, it's water. Our body is about, depending on how old we are, anywhere from 66% to 80% hydrogen in our body. The hydrogens are so important, because those are the things that make all our metabolism and enzymes work that with oxygen, that's the thing that makes water, hydrogen plus oxygen, that's the thing that makes the water on all our planets and the water and all our body. But it's also the things that really, when you become a scientist and understand this, hydrogens are also the things that hold things together, their cloud, their attraction, so it's the thing that ultimately gets everything the three-dimensional structure in your body. Think of it as almost like the Lego pieces, or nuts and bolts that keep things together. Your enzymes are put together by hydrogens, and these other things, the hydrogen is on proteins, right. If those hydrogens aren't there, you can't make those proteins or enzymes won't work. It’s the thing that holds your bones together, it's the thing that holds your DNA together. It's the thing that holds everything in you together. It is the nails or bolts that keep everything in place.

The problem is there's actually two types of hydrogen. Well, actually three types. One we make, which is called tritium, that's the one that makes a bomb. Everybody knows what the hydrogen bomb is, we have to make that in the lab, naturally occurring. There's another one that's called deuterium, which is a cousin of, we can think of as a cousin of hydrogen, and thinking of as being the large, heavier type of cousin. He's twice as big and twice as heavy, and that's called deuterium, two, deu-terium. That's twice as big as hydrogens, whose real name is protium, by the way. It's twice as big and twice as heavy. Even when you think about-- anybody's made an erector set, or use Legos, or made a puzzle, if that puzzle piece is twice as big, it's no longer going to fit into that puzzle. Or, if that puzzle piece is a nut-- let's say if you have nails and that nail’s twice as big, and you try to use it, by the time you try to build that house with those nails, that house isn't going to look like a house anymore. It may look like a dog, it can look like anything because the three-dimensional structure is going to change. So, that's the first thing you want to think about hydrogens and how important they are. Deuterium, if you have too much tritium, then all those three-dimensional structures are going to change including your DNA.

As one of the cofounders of epigenetics, the thing we started with epigenetics was how food really, and things you do, changes your DNA and how your DNA is expressed. What genes are off and on. We know for a fact that food does that. What we've now found out and discovered is, it's not the food itself, but it's components of the food. It's not that you ate a sandwich, or that you eat popcorn or that you eat sugar, but it actually happens to be what type of hydrogens are actually in that food. If you have a lot of the great hydrogens, the hydrogen [unintelligible [00:20:41], that DNA is properly folded. As you have more, your food has the deuterium in it, that DNA now becomes so bulky and big, that it can't close up, and by not being able to close up, it keeps replicating. That replicating is what cancer is. Cancer cells are cells that keep replicating. They keep replicating because they're full of deuterium, and they can't close up to stop replicating.

Now, the other thing about this, and more important, is that we all know what the mitochondria is. As biohackers that's our Mecca. Everybody always talks about the mitochondria because we know that the mitochondria is the place that we make our energy. We make 90% of our energy inside our mitochondria in the Krebs cycle, or TCA cycle. Well, the way it really works, now that we've-- again, these are recent-- let's say the recent discoveries, the first Nobel Prize was given for deuterium in the 1930s and the last one was really given for this thing I'm going to talk about called the nanomotors, I think in 2018, and there's been four Nobel Prizes given for this related field. So, it's always funny when people say they don't know about it, yet there's been four Nobel Prizes given for things related to this.

When you eat your food, your body breaks that food down. We always think in terms of fat and protein and carbohydrates. I want people to start rethinking that. Really, what your body does, it breaks those foods down, and it takes hydrogens from that food. It takes those hydrogen into our mitochondria. Inside our mitochondria, which we call the powerhouses of cells, because it makes our ATP, our energy, there are actually thousands and thousands of things called nanomotors. Imagine that there's tiny little engines like turbine engines that-- say, like a wind turbine. As the wind goes past a turbine, we know that it blows those windmills, those wind turbines around, and they make energy. Well, think of it this way. Instead, what happens is this flow of hydrogens from your food, go pass these nanomotors, these tiny turbines inside your mitochondria. When it passes them, it makes them instead make ATP. So, you can imagine, these things are going around at about 9000 revolutions per minute, turning around in a circle, faster than the fastest generator you can think of, faster than a motor in a Ferrari or Maserati, really approaching how fast the motors move in a jet plane. They're just so fast.

They're moving so fast, and they're making energy, making energy, making energy. When they also make energy, they make water, water, energy, water, energy, water, energy. To the point that when you eat, the food you eat, 3.5 pounds of food that the average big person eats, you're going to make about 68 pounds of energy from that. Think about that. You eat three and a half pounds of food, you make 68 pounds of energy. Not only that, but three and a half pounds of food, you make about 3000 gallons of water, hold on to that concept. And you need that much energy and that much water, just for your body to be healthy, because as you know, you don't go to the bathroom to get rid of 3000 liters of water, you don't get rid of it, your body just uses this all the time, just to think, just to move, just to do everything, the millions and millions of things that need to do just survive and be a human.

Well, when those hydrogens, those little, tiny hydrogens are replaced by deuterium, it's like hitting these motors with a rock and it starts to break those nanomotors. For every deuterium that hits this, it breaks the nanomotors and the nanomotors are gone, and they can't be repaired. They’ve got to be redone. You can Imagine as more and more of these nanomotors are broken, you make less and less ATP, and you make less and less water. I always like to try to equate it, if people look up in the sky-- This is amazing thing, you make more energy in your body and your nanomotors, and you have literally billions of nanomotors all through your body, billions. You have as many nanomotors in your body, as there are stars in this universe. Think about that. As many nanomotors as stars, making as much energy. On a per capita basis, you make more energy than the sun. [laughs] I want you to understand that, understand the power of your metabolism and the importance of this deuterium.

Now, you have a level of deuterium your body, that starts to break these nanomotors, that means you're going to make less energy, less water. I equate it to, if you looked up in the sky, and you see all those beautiful stars at night, just think if you went outside at night, and you saw 10% of the stars gone, the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper are gone, they're not there anymore. That's what the deuterium does to your nanomotors. It destroys your stars in your body. When you understand that, you start to understand how important it is to keep it a deuterium levels at bay, and your body does this naturally via a lot of the regular things that biohackers think about. We're just able now to relate it to deuterium levels and be able to measure it in your body so we can tell you how well you're able to get rid of this deuterium. Does that help?

Melanie Avalon: That helps so much. My mind is being blown on so many levels. Okay, here's a foundational question. The levels of deuterium in our environment and our bodies, what does that look like in the history of humankind? I imagine whether our mitochondria have selected to use deuterium adequately, if it was always around?

Dr. Que Collins: Well, you're the first person to ask this theological question. Thank you. I'm going to answer this. Thank you for it. That's like, wow. I didn't pay her, folks, for this question. It's not a softball pitch up to me. If you think about this and is so true, our evolutionary history can be determined by what the deuterium levels are. As a matter of fact, when they take ice cores, when they measure ice, and they see how old something is, they really are measuring determine that water to find out when it happened. Isn’t that funny? Most people don't know that.

Melanie Avalon: Because it freezes at a different temperature, right?

Dr. Que Collins: There we go. In the Ice Age, guess what, deuterium levels are lower, they were lower, because all the deuterium is caught in the ice. As things warm up, then those ice caps, those ice melt, and they released that deuterium to the oceans into the air. As things get warmer, the deuterium level goes up. Guess what, folks? Guess what period of time we're living in right now? It's warming up. So, deuterium levels are going up, and it's in our food and in all these other things. What we have to do is find out ways to deplete our deuterium as we fight against this. But, yes, we can look at different parts of history and determine what the deuterium levels are just from what the temperature was. We can also from that, even go and determine how big the animals were and all those kinds of things go in together.

You actually asked another great question that nobody's ever answered. Most people don't know that mitochondria, maybe they do, that mitochondria are actually-- it was not part of a human body, of a karyote. Mitochondria are actually remnants of bacteria. I don't know if you know that. They're remnants of bacteria. That's really what's great about our mitochondria, is we wouldn't be humans today, had we not had this mitochondria becoming an obligate parasite. It really is what it was, it became something that enabled our ancestors, our great, great, great, great, great to a million time ancestors turned into becoming mammals in humans. Without those mitochondria, we would have never been able to make the energy we need to do anything, to think, to run, to grow different body parts. We've been this this protoplast still swimming around in the goo that was the primordial Earth.

Mitochondria became these things in us and it uses, and again, it was changed around a bit, in that the mitochondria takes our hydrogens and makes energy out of it. In bacteria and fungi, it works just the opposite. If you look at bacteria and fungi, they eat deuterium, and they eat deuterium, and that's how they grow. So, that's the reason you see things rotting and growing fast. If you see an apple drop on the grass, you can come back two days later, and that thing's got bacteria and fungus growing all over, we’ve seen it. That's because it's eating deuterium, and bacteria, and those things grow faster from deuterium, where heavier amounts of deuterium will get us sick. But even in faster periods of growth, like when you're a neonate, or baby or teenager, you actually are able to use the deuterium because it's going to help you grow. If you think about the deuterium, deuterium is a thing that is really related to growth. It has a lot to do with DNA more than energy, but keeping DNA open. That's why it's also related to cancer because cancer is unregulated growth.

Melanie Avalon: Speaking to the bacteria and fungi, does it feed all different types of bacteria, like Gram negative and positive? I'm just thinking about like our microbiome.

Dr. Que Collins: Yep, you're good. Yes, it feeds all bacteria. I love when people talk about the microbiome, they make it so complicated. Microbiome does one major thing, it removes deuterium from your body. When you poop, that's just big deuterium bombs. That's what they are. It's the most amazing thing. That's what it is. If you get sick, and you become constipated, you can't poop, what happens is then all that material then backs up, can't be removed, it goes into your bloodstream and everyplace else. It's backed up, it destroys your nanomotors, makes you weak, and you die. That's the reason you die because when you're constipated, when you have diarrhea, you'll see the reason that you most likely get diarrhea so often, is it is trying its best to get as much of that deuterium out of your body as possible. It will pass it out as water, is just trying to dump it. These things are so great, because we can relate these thoughts and principles and hypothesis to really how life works and what we see in clients and in patients and in people, or they be professional athletes or have cancer, we can see these things, apply those principles, test them, and then biohack our way to the perfect solution.

Melanie Avalon: Wow, my mind is being blown. Okay, here's another foundational question. So, you're talking about how our bodies use hydrogen for so many purposes, and energy and everything. It's the normal hydrogen, the protium that we need, but the deuterium is heavier and kind of gunks everything up and messes up our mitochondria. Those actual hydrogen, what is the difference getting hydrogen from food versus hydrogen from water?

Dr. Que Collins: Excellent question. All right. Your food, it's very interesting when you talk about-- think about this, really, when we talk about food, that's your nutrition. When it takes hydrogen from food, because of the way our metabolism works, it's really taking the hydrogens from food and that's what really exchanges between your enzymes and metabolic pathways to the hydrogens for your food, not the hydrogens from your water. The hydrogens from your water are almost passive. In other words, you can think about it being, that they're around-- Well, let's think about the enzymatic pathways and how fast things happen. It's a lot faster, these exchanges are a lot faster, occur a lot faster with the hydrogens from your food than they do with the water. It's a very slow, slow, slow reaction with water. Water can dissolve something, but it's not going to change what it dissolved. When you dissolve Kool Aid and water, it doesn't make the Kool-Aid any different. It just makes it wet. Now when you think about enzymes and your food, what would happen is it actually can make that Kool-Aid different because it's going to exchange hydrogens with the hydrogens that are actually in the food.

Another thing that's so interesting is the way our body works is that when you eat food, your metabolism takes the food, it changes to glucose molecules. When it takes it into your cell, it strips all of the hydrogens off of it, all of the hydrogens off of it. So, it's like a dryer. It's going to strip all the hydrogens off of it. Then, when it gets into the intracellular part of the cells toward the mitochondria, it's now going to put hydrogens back on it that's inside that cell. The purpose is to get rid of the deuterium before it gets close to the mitochondria, and then put these new hydrogens on it to wet it now, it's like a dryer, then washer, to wet it now and hoping that inside your intracellular space, that you have lower levels of deuterium, and therefore your mitochondria are going to be safer.

Melanie Avalon: We broke it into food and water. Does that also include water in food? So, like fruit, that's water, that has juice?

Dr. Que Collins: Yeah. We always do this. I mean, it's been even fascinating for me to start really getting this concept down. Even when we look at juice, there are two components to juice. Juice is wet, but even with the juice, there is the liquid part, the H2O part, but it is really the dissolved proteins and fat and stuff and carbohydrates it's there. Those are two different things and we always think about that. You can dry juice. We do a lot of testing on food and food products. We can blow off all of the liquid part, the water part, and what will be left behind is the dry part. Even a liquid, the only thing that doesn't have residual is water, is pure water. I'm not talking about some water from a spring, because water from a spring has minerals in it and a lot of other things. But pure water that has been in a distiller, and distilled thousand times has nothing in it. That's the only thing that doesn't leave any residuals down. The water in food is still just water, but the stuff left behind, is the stuff that when you eat it, when you drink it is a calorie-containing part.

Melanie Avalon: I just want to revisit one little thing you talked about because it's still blowing my mind. We create 68 pounds of energy from three pounds of food. Where's that weight coming from?

Dr. Que Collins: Well, everything has a weight. There's a great internet TED talk, I can't remember my friend’s name. It's about what happens when you lose weight. What you're losing, you're actually using carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, that's all you losing, it's not weight. In this case, where this comes from is, when it goes through this TCA cycle, the Krebs cycle inside your mitochondria, when it makes ATP, you can calculate the weight of one molecule of ATP or one mol of ATP, you can see how many times it turns per day, then you can make the calculations for all the number-- estimate of how many cells you have in your body, how many mitochondria are in each cell, and how many nanomotors are in each mitochondria. This is actually done by a group, really great guy, that lives in Hungary. He did all these calculations, I think, for his thesis. It was very, very interesting.

So, your body makes so much ATP in a day, and that ATP has weight. I'm just telling you how much you will weigh. Every time it makes ATP, it's going to make a molecule of water. So, it makes ATP, it makes water. It makes ATP, it makes water. There are four different steps in your Krebs cycle that make ATP. And each step that it makes ATP, it also makes water. Then, it can also use that water it makes for the next step to make more ATP. Think of yourself almost as being a nuclear-powered sub. So, you may make it but you will also use it, make it use it, make it use it, make it use it. The stuff that's left over, then that is the stuff that's there for you to use later.

Melanie Avalon: When it comes to water intake-- because different people, perceive needing different amounts of water, could a person in theory if their body was functioning a certain way not even require water because they could make it off from food?

Dr. Que Collins: Here is the interesting thing, what we really have the concept has really been destroyed. Most of the water, and I can tell you from our pro-athletes, they're incredible. Incredible specimens. That numbers I gave you before are for just us normal people. Pro-athletes, who are just machines, they make probably 50% more water and 50% more ATP than we do, because they need it. But what happens with making all that is you start to generate heat, you can feel your skin, you generate heat. Because you generate heat, that's really what we drink water for mostly. It's not for nutrition, but you've got to drink water to cool you off, to keep things in solution. That's what water is for. It's not of nutritional value. If you think about that, you're really just trying to cool your body off, and you're trying to make sure your muscles and bones and everything stay hydrated.

An easier way of saying it's not stay hydrated, it's just means in solution. Again, I'm going to go back to the Kool-Aid thing, where you want the right amount of water in your Kool-Aid, that's what we drink water for. Most of the time, that water doesn't get into the intracellular part of your cells. It's the water that we make that's inside our cells. I love when people talk about how much water we should drink, and you said a very good thing. You can, indeed, if you do everything right, and maximize the amount of water that you make, then yes, you would need less water. However, that person who is doing all that is also likely a person that exercises a lot, or thinks a lot. So, they're going to need water to cool off their body.

My favorite story that I like to tell people, I was in Australia a couple of years ago when I went to one of their zoos. They’re always going to show the American, “Hey, come over here, see this crocodile.” So, they took me up for-- and they show me this little thing and I was like, “What-- there's no--” I thought they were talking about this little 12-foot thing, little alligator. Then they show me this 30-foot thing that was behind them, which was this huge Australian crocodile, which looked like a dinosaur. It was just the most-- you know how your heart drops, you go, “Oh, my God, please water tank, don't break.” [laughs] It was there. The guy's like, “Hey Doc, come over here.” I'm not going to do my Australian accent, so nobody makes fun of me. “Come over. I'm going to ask you some questions.” I came over and he showed me, he says, “How much do you think this animal eats?” And you look at this thing, and I'm like, “A cow a day? I don't know.” You would think they would eat so much. They eat the equivalent of a chicken leg.” Why? Only a chicken like, that's all they have to eat.

When you think about these huge creatures, and dinosaurs and all these kinds of things that are cold blooded, they warm themselves in the sun. They don't drink water. They warm themselves. They don't drink water, and they don't need a lot of calories, because they don't use all their energy heating their bodies. Once you understand that, you're like, “Oh, my God.” Yes, I did get deuterium levels on animals when I was in Australia, because I had to find out about how they worked. We actually were working on the project with them for the Tasmanian devils because the Tasmanian devils have developed cancer all across Australia and are disappearing. We found out they were developing this cancer because their deuterium levels are high. This is so interesting.

Again, folks to show you how important this is, they have been searching for it. So, we walked into the zoo, we looked at it. Within one minute, I could say, “This is the problem.” Because what happens if you think about deforestation, they use Roundup, killing all these forests to build new places in Australia. Well, when you eat Roundup, or these type of things, it destroys your metabolism, because it goes at your TCA cycle to get rid of those steps I just talked about that make metabolic water and that make ATP like fumarase. It’s geeky, but there's an enzyme in your TCA cycle called fumarase. It's one of the ones that makes water in ATP. It destroys those, and that's how it kills plants and bugs because now those plants and bugs don't have energy, and you see them fall out of the sky and die.

Well, unfortunately, what's happened is that the Tasmanian devils have been eating those bad, bad things, developing cancer and they can't see. So, the only way a Tasmanian devil can communicate with another Tasmanian devil, they're literally blind, they've got to almost kiss, they touch each other. And they pass the cancer on from one animal to another animal in the wild. They almost all have this cancer and they will all be gone very soon. So, they're trying to raise them in zoos. Same, koala bears are in danger too, because of a similar type of thing with chlamydia. We're hoping that this new knowledge of deuterium, which they're using very well will help them save those animals because they're just such lovely, lovely animals.

Melanie Avalon: Would that qualify as a transmissible cancer between the Tasmanian?

Dr. Que Collins: Actually yes, it is because it actually has a viral etiology. That's the reason-- this particular type of cancer is a face cancer. If you go online, you can look that up, and you'll see the cancers on them. It almost looks like a mushroom growing on their face. This one just has a viral etiology, so they're able to pass that virus on from one to the other. I've already told you guys about bacteria and fungi. What does it need to grow? High levels of deuterium. There you go. You have the perfect storm that you in these animals. You have a product that's killing the forest that's using something that's going to kill your metabolism, ability to make ATP, something that has a high-level deuterium in it that's going to be passed on, a virus that depends on the deuterium levels to work. Again, why is that important to people, so viruses don't eat. No, but remember how I mentioned a couple minutes or 10-15 minutes ago, that deuterium when it gets into your DNA, it makes it open. When it makes it open, that's how viruses are now able to get into that DNA and replicate.

Melanie Avalon: This is fascinating. I have one more question about the temperature thing. I'm just so fascinated by this. Is the cooling nature of water due at all to the temperature of water, or is water itself cooling on its own?

Dr. Que Collins: Yeah, water itself is really cooling. You're right, if you drink cold water, cold water feels cold, and it is cold. But by the time it is absorbed, when you drink water, it takes about seven-- you're going to love this kind of data, it takes 17 minutes for the water you drink, if you're not eating with food, to go to maximal hydration in your body, just 17 minutes. That's it. And that is different from drinking water that has salt or sugars in it. All three of these things are, and not only that, but when you drink water, the majority of the water that's absorbed, water is absorbed and not digested, is absorbed, specifically and quickly to your peripheral tissues, to your muscles, and secondarily to the other places. Now, on the other hand, when you drink water that has sugar in it, or water that has solid minerals in it, it doesn't go to your muscles first, it goes to your organs.

We've really been playing around lately, with how can we engineer natural foods, and not Frankenstein engineering, but just add different components to direct water where we want to. We've been doing a lot of experiments, especially with our oxygenated water, which delivers these ultra-fine nanobubbles to different places. How can we now make sure that we can get the oxygen to your brain tissue? Or, to your lungs? Or, to your skeletal muscle if that's where you need it instead? I was like telling people I love this deuterium depletion mechanism because it's like drinking your oxygen instead of breathing it.

Melanie Avalon: Does the body have an intuitive mechanism? Does it know if it needs water in certain parts of the body and so you crave plain water versus electrolyte water versus sweet water?

Dr. Que Collins: No, that's a good question. Don't think about it as craving. What we know is that enzymes-- your entire existence is all about the enzymes and this dance of the enzymes. They make reactions happen faster, those are your enzymes, you couldn't live without them, because it's able to turn glucose into something faster. Without it, it would take weeks or days. With it, it takes seconds or moments. If you look at your question, it's not that it has an innate thought about needing it, but your body is smart. Your cells are incredible, like we talked about, they really communicate. That's what people have to understand. They communicate. When you get a scar and things, we can talk about that, scar is a problem because it stops communication, but they communicate very well. Indeed, it does know from the immune system, if nothing else, what the temperature, what the dilutions, what everything that is going on in a part of the body that's away from another part of the body. It can send signals, because the way that looks like hydration, may be related to how the body thinks sicknesses. That, “Oh my gosh, my temperature is higher here, I have less water, I must have a viral contamination here.” Immune cells come here and get the stuff out of here, and when it comes, it's going to do something and it's going to cause-- now think about this, it's going to cause swelling, or the water to flow into that place, now to hydrate it, to get it back to homeostasis, back the way it was.

Yes, it does have a very primordial level of making sure it stays at homeostasis. It's not something that's more brain, it's not a really thinking way to do it. It's not that your brain’s doing, but primordially, and just indeed your body is set up to work, and work as well as it can. Water is number one.

Melanie Avalon: This is the coolest conversation I've ever had about water. I'm so enjoying this. Going back to deuterium, how is it measured? I know, especially, I think ppm, so what's a normal level for a human being and what should we try to get to?

Dr. Que Collins: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that we created and we patented, although other people are using it right now, but that's going to stop soon, and that we patented was the ability to be able to measure deuterium in our bodies. We use as a marker of deuterium in our body, our breath, and that level deuterium that's in your breath, and your exhaled breath condensate is a marker for general, what's in your general tissues, in your brain, your fingers, but it's not exactly. It really is just a mark, and that is a measure of what the deuterium levels are really in your heart and cardiac muscle, at least 50% of that number. Then, we also use as a marker for what's in your blood, the wet part of your body, like you were talking about juice. In the juicy part of your body, we use what's in your urine, and what's in your saliva. That is a general marker for what's in your blood. We did about two years of work of looking at comparing blood in different places and plasma from different places, saliva and urine, and even from tears and a lot of other places and found out, yes, if it's liquid, it's liquid. It's all the same.

We invented those and patented those about, I think, five years ago. We've been five years in and patented them. That really gave us a really big stance and really moved this whole thing along because before then you couldn't measure deuterium the body. It was just, “Yeah, I think it's doing this, but I can't tell you for sure.” What's normal for a person? I always tell people, it's not important about what the top number is. If you look at garbage, if you measure what's in your saliva and in your urine, think of it as the garbage in your body, because what your body is doing is dumping deuterium to that river. It's polluting that river, so the river can be taken down to your kidneys and bladder, and your microbiome, so you can get the junk out of your body. That's the purpose of it, and it carries it back and forth.

The important part is the difference between what's in your tissue and what's in your blood. You want your tissue as low as possible-- I don’t want to say it's low because, everybody understand, deuterium is not a toxin. It's not even a contaminant, it is important to our everyday life and our everyday growth. You just want the ratios right. I want everybody understand that. You don't want to have your deuterium levels too low, because your body doesn't even work well with your deuterium levels too low. It could cause even cancer and give rise to cancer. You want to measure the difference between what can be removed. So, if you can remove 17 to 20 ppm, you're a healthy, incredible person, and we can just fool around with your diet to lower your deuterium exposures to where you're going to stay healthy and young forever. I really mean that.

I think somebody who's able like you, Melanie, at this time in your life, you could look like you are, be as smart as you are, everything right now, be as athletic and everything for 50 or 60 more years without changing much if you're able to keep the deuterium levels down and understand all the things and systems that go along with getting that. That's what biohackers do. I really mean that. Deuterium is a thing that determines how old you are, and prematurely ages you. Again, older people have higher levels of deuterium, and not a good thing. Anyway, that's a way you measure. A safe-- I would like to say that the average person should walk around, maybe their deuterium levels in the high 130s to 140s, but they can also deplete the deuterium to where they can deplete maybe 10 to 15 ppm. In other words, you can get rid of this much, and this is in your body, and this is in your tissue, of X is in your tissue.

As you get sick, what we say is, “Okay, now we want to lower the deuterium levels in your tissue. We can do that by making sure that you do all the things that helped to deplete deuterium.” Drinking oxygenated water, or deuterium depleted water, learning to breathe better, sleeping correctly. Exercising correctly, making sure your biome is in tip-top condition, making sure you get the right amount of REM sleep and deep sleep because that's when deuterium is removed, making sure you're able to urinate properly and that you have enough nitrogen in your body to get rid of because deuterium is fixed by nitrogen. So, nitrogen fixation, the reason that that works and your kidney and bladder, it's removing deuterium. We can show this easily, as that goes down, then your ability to deplete deuterium goes down, and you see concomitant meaning sickness and decreases in health levels from there. Again, it's not as simple.

I always say that deuterium is a great marker, but you guys are already smart. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. You know you got to sleep better, you know you got to exercise, but you just don't know what exercise to do, you know you have to learn how to breathe, you know these things. All these incredible biohacking people, incredible people. I know a lot of their incredible people you have on your show, we just can now relate everything they do to deuterium levels, and show how to make what they do more effective, and more importantly, how to [unintelligible [00:57:36] on people that say they know what's going on, because if something is metabolically-- is supposed to make your metabolism work better, and it increases your deuterium levels, then they're full of crap. That cannot exist in the same world.

Melanie Avalon: I'm just really shocked that more people aren't talking about this. My mind is just continuing to be blown.

Dr. Que Collins: No, I appreciate it. The Center for Deuterium Depletion when I helped found it, even though I don't do as much with it as I used to, I think one of the things that they really were-- their whole life was to bring this-- to make this and teach this to more people, so they understand it. What I love now is there's so much-- and it's not an insult anyone, there's so much more than about deuterium and deuterium-depleted water now. That's what I think is so great, they moved from that little fishbowl. Now, it’s an understanding of how to use these things in your life that everybody can afford, and really going even at the level of government-- make sure governments understand how to make their constituents healthier, by planning food the right way, by even looking at bills they pass, and drugs they use, to say, “If you do this, then this is what's going to happen, and these are the consequences.” I'm really happy that I must say that with all these different-- You get to the right place for the right reason. I now understand why I was so driven over the last 50 years to get a lot of different degrees and a lot of different understandings, because this is more than about science. It's about science, it's about people, it's about society, it's about culture. It's about being successful, and it's about getting along together. And believe it or not, deuterium and your levels of deuterium are related to all of these.

I worked with the state of Ohio, and we were looking to determine levels in women who were losing their children. In Ohio, they have one of the highest birth death rates for babies and particularly for African American women. We were able to go in there and real look at that and say, “This is the reason, let's change the diet.” And we're able to push it down, and studies are going well. You know how, of course, had to go with the oxycodone-- They really had a drug problem and they switch their money from that study, to really looking at oxycodone addiction. We also used the same thing in the state of California, we're looking at prisoners, and a prison population, and you're going to love this. You can look at their deuterium levels and tell how angry they are. Isn’t this crazy? Again, as we looked at this, it really was a matter of being able to feed them better food, to get them to better sleep, and all these things. Of course, the funniest part, we laugh because the project went from being for prisoners, to being for prison guards because prison guards, some were like, “Wait a minute. Get us healthier.” They're using it more than anybody else now.

Equally, we have done this project that we work with drug addiction and depression, and using diet and ketogenic diet, which is a deuterium-depleted diet. That's all it is. Using diet and an oxygenated water, deuterium-depleted water, to treat depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia. Lo and behold, a paper was published out of Oxford University about two or three years ago that really backed up what we said, and they are showing the relationship between depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia, and the levels of deuterium in those people's bodies.

Melanie Avalon: Are you of the opinion that deuterium depletion of the keto diet is the primary reason that that's--?

Dr. Que Collins: No doubt about it. I'm one of the grandfathers of ketogenic diet. Yes, because the ketogenic diet is high in fat, and usually those people that also use a ketogenic diet are also wealthier. Just like carnivore diet people, not only do they eat a diet that's higher in fat, but they also eat a diet that is higher and organic materials that are made organically and also from grass-fed animals. What does that mean? That means the food that they're eating, ketogenic diet particularly, has a higher level of fat that has no deuterium in it, and the high-level protein that has no deuterium in it. When your body gets it, and it strips all those hydrogens out of fat-- Remember fat has, I think, six times a hydrogen as carbohydrate, so molecule of fat, is going to give you much more energy. That's the reason that we can use ketogenic diets to actually help optimize athletic performance when you do it right.

So yes, indeed, the ketogenic diet is because it has a high level of fat, and if you have based it on animals that are grass fed, that are organically raised, and the same thing, and you're eating all green foods, which ketogenic diet is really based on. You're eating green non-root foods, those happen to be very low deuterium, in comparison to other vegetables in food that you can eat. That also brought me for the last two years to understand, once you get that-- I used to be a very, very, very awful person, when it came to saying, “You had to eat a ketogenic diet if you had cancer, because that's the only thing that was going to save you,” because I didn't understand, I just knew what we knew from the results in our labs and clinical study, and our patient population and adult population, that ketogenic diets gave people a better chance with cancer.

Now we understand that it's not about the ketogenic diet, but the composition of those foods. Now we can deliver the same type of results. If you want it plant based, if you want it Mediterranean, it doesn't matter, we just can be able to test the foods to arrange a composition, so that the deuterium levels are low, so you start to make your food-- your food is so precise, that your food becomes more controlled, and it can be used more like a drug than just as something you eat.

Melanie Avalon: Well, and between those different foods, does it have anything to do with the amount of their water content or is it a different factor?

Dr. Que Collins: No, that's very good too. That's the interesting thing too. Not only the water that you drink, but the water that's in the food that you eat, still doesn't get into the intracellular part of your cells. It can get to the cytoplasm, but it doesn't get to the deepest part of cells where the mitochondria is. Yes, indeed, something like a watermelon or piece of orange, the water in that is the water. Now, what's bad about those type of things is that the carbohydrates, and they still have a low fat in it, but we just don't measure it really, those have high levels of deuterium on those carbohydrates, and that's what make them bad. People always try to ask me, well, think about this. When you look at a tree, or anything that's green, that green part has chloroplasts which is equal from our mitochondria, and just like we, our body gets rid of deuterium, those plants and trees are getting rid of deuterium. They have to get rid of it, so they can live.

Matter of fact, we see a sick tree with fungus and things, we found out they have higher levels of deuterium. Strangest thing. In this case, what a tree does, it takes all of the deuterium, and it packs it into the fruit, into its seeds, this is so great, because what is trying to do is put that the deuterium into things that are important for growth. What really happens with fruit? The way fruit used to work is that we would eat the fruits at the bottom of the tree, during a certain season. But the rest of those fruits would drop down to the ground, and either be used up by the bacteria, as it rots there, or an animal will come along, eat that Apple, eat that piece of fruit, go a mile and poop. And what it would do? Poop out a new tree, because now the seeds are going to grow there, and it's got manure and the seeds that it makes plants and a new tree. That's what fruits are for, to actually grow things.

In our case, what we're doing-- what we've been taught, again, the things that government chooses to do, when we talk about big ag, big agriculture. When we look at this, then what we want to say is, okay, then what we want to do in this case, is to make sure that we really eat fruit regionally. You really want to eat the fruits and vegetables and things that are really grown in your area, because your area that is grown is really made-- the deuterium levels are made for that region of the country. The deuterium levels are different in different parts of the world. They are higher at the equator, and they are lower at the poles. Of course, people will say, “Well, it's cold at the poles too.” That's true, that's one of the reasons, so those levels are lower. It's lower at the top of mountains, it's higher in valleys. This deuterium science has been around again for 100 years. So, they know this stuff, they look at deuterium in rocks. I mean, it's crazy. They look in rocks, when they say you can't get water from a stone, that's not true. They actually measure water in stones. It's crazy. We can tell where food is from the deuterium levels in them, and all of these things. Indeed, when we look at fruits and vegetables, and root plants, we know what those deuterium levels are.

Now, let me step back too, I am not here to tell people the fruit’s bad for them. What I will say to those people, is if you have a metabolic condition, and you need to lower your deuterium exposure, fruit needs to be taken out of your diet, rice needs to be taken out of your diet, potatoes need to be taken out-- it starts to sound a lot like a ketogenic diet. These things need to be removed from your diet, more fat, fish, grain-fed animals out of your diet. These are the things you have to do to lower your exposure to deuterium. At the same time, now let's strengthen up the ways that you can deplete the deuterium. Let's figure out how to make you be able to sleep better, how to make you be able to breathe better, how to make your biome work better. We've done some incredible things, starting with the water and now creating this new oxygenated water, which I think is incredible because it's cheap, and my whole goal in life is to make sure everybody can afford the same advantages of health and not just the rich.

We've now also been working with groups and people from Denmark. Just as I worked with Joovv, understanding how red light worked and with them, we were able to learn so much, but also to understand how blue light works. I'm working with a group in England on blue light and using blue light to treat blue light and deuterium depletion to treat people that have macular degeneration of their eyes that come from having glaucoma. We're seeing the ability to actually decrease the loss of eyesight that comes from having, again, low levels of-- having diabetes and glaucoma and those side of things. Then, as I was saying, this group from Denmark, we just have made a new app that we're bringing out called MeloCura, and that uses these incredible frequency soundwaves because what we're able to do is look at a combination of frequency and carrier waves, and we're able to use that to make the nanomotors spin faster, just like we're able to use Joovv light. Joovv lights make the nanomotors spin faster. It makes what's inside your cells-- it does that by making the molecular, the water, the water we make called molecular water or metabolic water. So, it's able to make that change that to be thinner and so we can make more energy and more metabolic water by hitting it with Joovv light.

But now we found out sound streams that we can now use and direct at the places, and so now we have that sound streams-- that with or without water, but especially as you drink, the oxygenated water, will also decrease pain, it will get rid of stress, anxiety, help you recover better, help your immune system. It’s all these wonderful things that were clinically validated, take your attention down, that you can now utilize that is easy, cheap, and makes your body. It’s the ultimate-- I'm so happy because I think we have the ultimate biohacking portfolio. I really have been doing this just so we can make-- honestly for me, so cancer patients have a better chance of living.

Melanie Avalon: This is so incredible. I have a quick question about the red light, talking about Joovv making the nanomotors go faster. Is there concern, if you have a lot of deuterium buildup if they are going faster? Is it more likely to cause issues?

Dr. Que Collins: Gosh, you're smart. I say that to begin with. [laughs] That's a great question. You had Scott on, I think, and he was over my house, and we were talking about that. Yeah, I love his-- Scott, I love you, guys. You have to see the whole family. They're great. I'll tell a story about them, they don't mind. They came over with their whole family, brothers, and sisters. There are nine of them, and then Scott married into the family. What a great-- greatest people I love. They're like my second family. I actually love them. I love their product. They're so genuine.

That is a good question. The problem is if deuterium levels are high, then what's going to happen is that it's harder for the red light to work. It's harder for it to work. You can think about if you had a glass of water, and you poured a glass of water into a river that has no pollution in it. Let's go the opposite way. A river that has no pollution in it, then that water would add to it and it would still make the river less polluted. Now, if the river was completely polluted, almost mud, you can add a glass of water, it makes a difference, but not as big a difference. That's the same thing with Joovv. Can it hurt you? It absolutely cannot. Can it be made to be more effective? And the answer is yes. They are making it more effective, by being able to deliver more lumens and making what their product does deliver more capacity per unit square inch.

We, on the other hand, take what they do on the outside, and our job is to take sound and light, and all the things that mother nature does for us to understand how that is transferred from the outside to your inside, to your organs where it's needed, and is transferred through water. Water, it's always a dance of water that's important. It's just a transport mechanism. What we really have been focusing on is how we can now be able to control that water and understand that water and understand the transfer of energy through that water, whether it be to the bonds between the water or two other cells that are going to carry that, and then to figure out how to get it to where it's going to go. When you look at the blue light, again, like I said, we are looking at what it does in the eyes, and I never even thought about blue light. But indeed, we're able to show that the blue light while these people are sleeping, we have it computerized and everything, they wear these masks, and we're able to show how we can slow macular degeneration down, to where they don't lose their eyesight. It's amazing. We can't say we’ve proven it yet, but we can slow it down to where they don't lose their eyesight, which sounds a lot like we try to do with cancer. We slow it down, so your drugs can work and kill the cancer without killing you.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, this is so incredible. I do have a huge question for you because you're talking about the making this practical and accessible. There is deuterium-depleted water, which can be very expensive. What does that look like? If a person did do a protocol where they only drink deuterium-depleted water, for example, would that rapidly reduce the levels? How does that compare to lifestyle interventions?

Dr. Que Collins: I would say it is a great hack, it's like supplements. They can get it down really quickly. Great. But then you go out, you don't sleep, you party, and you do all these things, as an expensive lifestyle, is what I would say. But for cancer patients, it is an absolute necessary because you don't have time. But if you have time, fix your friggin’ lifestyle. It's like you already know, let's try to figure out what's the amount of time you really need to sleep. What time do you really need to get up? That's what we do, we're able to use it as a marker to really optimize your life and enhance your life. Then, we use water as a way to get you there. But here's what I think, is what I'm really happy about, is using this new Kure oxygenated water, it's very, very inexpensive. It's only about $2 a bottle, so it's the same price as a bottle of Fiji water, Perrier water, whatever, but you're able to use that.

If you think about the deuterium-depleted water, it is what I like to call passive depletion. In other words, you're diluting-- you're trying to get everything lower and in time, because it's lower, it's going to make you better. With Kure oxygenated water, it’s just the opposite. It's active. It's like having a fighter plane. What it's going to do, you're going to drink it, these ultra-fine bubbles are going to float through, and we have pictures and everything of how it works. It is pretty amazing. It's going to flow to your organs, get into your mitochondria, and then bind a hydrogen deuterium, and remove it from the system. What's nice is oxygen has an affinity about six times or seven times the amount of affinity for deuterium than it does for hydrogen. It's going to bind to deuterium first, that's one of the reasons that we breathe. Believe it or not, remind me to talk about that. But oxygen binds deuterium to make heavy water, and it's heavy, because remember deuterium is twice as heavy, so it's physically heavy, and our body has all these systems built in to specifically get rid of this heavy water. It's really cool. And that's the reason the oxygen’s is going to come back-- It's even cooler because we know that this is real, because you can drink this oxygenated water, and then measure your metabolism, your metabolism using a Lumen or breathing machine or any of these other kinds of things that's really measuring carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide is when you eat your food, the carbons from your food, from the carbohydrates and protein, everything, the carbons are bound by oxygen, while the hydrogen goes with the other oxygen, make water plus, as carbon dioxide. You breathe a carbon dioxide off.

The more oxygen you have, the better your metabolism is, and the more carbon dioxide that you will see in your breath. That's why you can do like the Wim Hof and all these type of breathing exercises, and you'll see your metabolism go higher, you'll get much better metabolism, and you'll be able to measure that as an off gas of CO2 now increasing. Just drinking this Kure oxygenated water, you can see more carbon dioxide come out in your breath, which means it's actually being used. So, I love this style, so that's a very inexpensive thing that anybody that drinks water should drink this type of water instead. It's made not in nuclear power plants in Eastern Bloc countries, but actually made in Cornwall, England. It's from streams of-- I think it's like 1000-foot elevation in Cornwall, just picturesque, and this beautiful farm. It's made from this award-winning spring water.

I'm just really happy for that, because I'm using that with a lot of-- especially all the athletes have switched over from deuterium-depleted water to oxygenated water, because I think it is more natural and more effective. When somebody has cancer, you need a combination of those things. That's where I'm going with this now, a combination of using the water and then things like Joovv and MeloCura sound streams and blue light. Putting those all together now to biohack yourself all the way from beginning to the end and just be healthy very, very, very quickly.

Melanie Avalon: Can listeners order that water?

Dr. Que Collins: Yes. They can order that water. So, you can order Kure oxygen water from Kure. K-U-R-E U-S, kureus.com. You can order from there, and also, they can still get it from The Center for Deuterium Depletion at DD Centers, two Ds, ddcenters.com. They go a lot further, they make protocols, they do a lot of other things, but also carry deuterium-depleted water and then a lot of modules, which I think is even better. A lot of the modules to help you sleep better, help you breathe better, help your gut, help your cognition, all other things that help deplete deuterium, that are lifestyle hacks that maybe you could do them on your own, and they've got years and years of proving that they work. But go there, ddcenters.com for that, and Kure water, MeloCura streams, you can get that from again, kureus.com.

Melanie Avalon: For listeners, I will put links to all of that in the show notes, which as mentioned, the show notes, also have a full transcript. So, that will probably come in handy. Just one last question about drinking the actual water. If it is in a person's budget, would they benefit from doing a brief trial of deuterium-depleted water and then move to the oxygen water, who practically should buy what depending on their budget?

Dr. Que Collins: If you go to deuterium-depleted water, we will put you on the right concentration of deuterium-depleted water where it’s safe, and you'll get the most effect for it. We do have that. And then oxygenated water, again, anybody could do that. We know that it helps with diabetes and a lot of things like that. Except, I will say for sure, there's much more clinical research really done by mostly Gábor Somlyai, and owner of Proventa, CEO of Proventa, there isn't an oxygenated water. How the oxygenated water primarily has been used for the last 20 years, is the water that they transport organs in. That means the hearts and livers they put it in oxygenated water, so they stay healthier and fresh and live longer. Yeah, it's just crazy. Now that I've joined them, I'm going to do a lot more science, and we're going to find out a lot more about how this works.

It's so cool. Let me tell you how cool it is, so people can understand how important it is. They're actually talking to the Malaysian Olympic team-- the Malaysian Olympic team and national health teams are going to use Kure water exclusively for their training to give them an edge. That's how important this is. Hopefully, by the time the Olympics comes to LA, we can have it ready for LA people, too. Some pro basketball players that are clients are already using it. I can't say their names, but they do live in [unintelligible [01:23:59]. Anyway, so. [laughs] Wink, wink.

Again, get either one, both are great. You can try the one. It is going to be more expensive for the deuterium depleted water. I personally think, as an athlete, I know for sure that the oxygenated water is the-- it would be my water of choice for anything that has to do with human performance, is not even close, because it's immediate. Think about this, you drank it, 17 minutes later, it's in your tissue.

Melanie Avalon: It's dealing with it right then, yeah.

Dr. Que Collins: Right then. Well, let's knock it out. Now, it's going to kill cancer? Probably not. But is it going to make you run faster, get stronger, be smarter? Damn straight.

Melanie Avalon: Well, thank you. This has been absolutely amazing. I have one rapid fire question just from your opening. How do you feel about metformin?

Dr. Que Collins: Metformin is a good thing. Metformin depletes deuterium. We've published a paper on it.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, really?

Dr. Que Collins: We published a paper on it. That's what it does. Metformin is a depleted deuterium. That's how it works, that’s how it lowers glucose levels if you drink deuterium, if you drink oxygenated water or doing deuterium depletion with deuterium-depleted water, again, that's going to lower your blood glucose levels by itself. Ketogenic diets, same way, by itself. Metformin is a good thing, as is berberine.

Melanie Avalon: I was going to say, does berberine do the same thing with deuterium?

Dr. Que Collins: Yes, berberine does the same thing. Remember, I told you about that nitrogen components of them? That's how they work. They work through these nitrogen traps.

Melanie Avalon: Wow. I read so many studies on berberine and metformin. And oftentimes, they'll say, “We don't really know the exact mechanism of action here,” but it's always like hypothesized to be different things, but I hadn't seen anything about deuterium.

Dr. Que Collins: Three years ago, there's another drug out, a cancer drug that was a drug that was supposed, that was hyped up as being the first metabolic drug for cancer, and they treated with CML. It's called Gleevec. The person, I think he may have won the Nobel Prize but I'm not sure. Great guy from Oregon, great, great, great, great scientist. They talked about this being this new-- and it's the thing that 10-15 years ago ushered in this whole new thing of personalized medicine and molecular medicine, that we could make the right thing for the right person to change your metabolism. We published a paper on this, Center for Deuterium Depletion and people that were with us. We published a paper on this, where we showed that Gleevec was simply a combination of metformin and Lipitor. This drug that people were paying hundreds of dollars for was a combination of two things that cost less than $1. The company that made it made literally billions of dollars on this magical drug, that wasn't magic. It simply had metformin and Lipitor to handle fat, and metformin, as we said, to deplete deuterium, and that's all it was. We did publish a paper. We're the first people to publish that.

Melanie Avalon: You are just the biggest wealth of knowledge. Thank you so much for this conversation. Is there anything you wanted to put out there or address that we didn't touch on?

Dr. Que Collins: No, I love it. Thank you so much. I think the thing I just want to go with people is to understand what my function and what I try to do. Again, we're hopefully going to have a new America soon, we're going back to an old America, to where we help each other. We understand that by helping others, you help yourself. Some of the things that we've put together, and I've already talked about, is this Kure oxygen water, the different lights, the different sound, this MeloCura. But here's the thing that I'm really just so excited about. We're also starting something that's called Kure Nation. People can go to kurenation.com. It's not up yet, but hopefully. Think about as being this fun site for biohackers, and everybody, is a health and wellness application site. You'll be able to do studies against your friends and challenges. All these things under an IRB to do clinical trials and all these things, they're crowd-sourced research-based things. I always like to tell people, I want them to think of it as Indiegogo or Kickstarter for geeks.

To me, that's going to be so much fun, because what we'll be able to do, Melanie, is to take all these biohacking questions and test them. It's so cool because people will get to be able to-- and we'll show you a grass, and we have-- what we’re calling Kure University, to where they'll be able to learn about science. I've already trying to get Bill Nye, the Science Guy to come on board. [laughs] I'm trying my best. I'm trying my best.

Melanie Avalon: He's like my dream guest, I'm trying to get on this show. I'm like, “I would die.”

Dr. Que Collins: He's such a neat guy. We’ve got to figure out, he's so busy right now. People can understand, you will be able to empower yourself to get healthier, to get resilient because I'm telling you, this COVID, it ain't the first. This is not the last time this is happening. Deuterium levels are up, so you've got to get healthy, you’ve got to empower yourself and not depend on the government or doctors as well meaning as they are to help you.

Melanie Avalon: That is quite a message. The last question I ask every single guest on this episode, and it's just because I appreciate more and more each day, how important mindset is surrounding everything. I feel like you've already answered this throughout the whole episode. But what is something that you're grateful for?

Dr. Que Collins: I am grateful for what the United States just went through, because I think it's going to actually get us back to where we should be. At the end of my life, which I know I'm getting closer to the end of the beginning, I think there's hope again.

Melanie Avalon: Wow. Well, thank you. Thank you, Dr. Collins. This was incredible, I learned so much. I think my listeners did as well. It's empowering. The work that you're doing is just so appreciated. I really look forward to communicating more with you in the future and your future work, and we'll have to bring you back on the show in the future for all the new things that you find.

Dr. Que Collins: Well, thank you, Melanie, and I love you being a girl boss. Keep it up.

Melanie Avalon: [laughs] Thank you. Bye.

Dr. Que Collins: Bye.

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