The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #283 - Brian Vaszily

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

In the case of skin, you have actually less barrier than in your mouth. So when you eat something through your mouth, it goes through multiple levels of attempted detoxification.  Average woman uses 12 personal care products a day, which contain over 128 different chemicals. But you're putting on all these products, and now you're taxing your mucus to the beautiful things nature does provide. There's not one thing that nature doesn't provide.

Welcome to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast where we meet the world's top experts to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and biohack your life? This show is for you. Please keep in mind we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes you may experience from implementing the tactics lying here in you.  Are you ready? Let's do this. Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Happy 2025 friends. Oh my goodness, a new year is upon us. And ever since I recorded this episode with Brian Vasily, I have been dying to release it for so many reasons. One of which is that after interviewing Brian, I ordered the hyperlift serum and oh my goodness, friends, I am obsessed. Obsessed. I now use every single day that serum multiple times and then the day cream during the day and the night cream at night. I am obsessed with these products. You guys know I am all about safe skincare and makeup and I am so happy that I can add purity woods to my list of brands that I feel so good about and which truly are changing my skin. I talk about this in the episode, but I literally, literally friends get a dopamine hit every single time I put these products on. They are that incredible. The maple smell, oh my goodness. And talking with Brian was just so amazing because he goes so deep and is so nuanced when it comes to our health and safe skincare and makeup and really viewing skincare as food to our bodies. And I have so many thoughts about all of this and he does as well. And I just really could not have enjoyed this conversation any more than I did. Just wait until you hear some of our theories about women, aging, wrinkles, skincare, and longevity.  So if you'd like to start the new year off right with your skincare, get purity woods now. You can get up to 38% off at puritywoods.com slash Melanie. That's P U R I T Y W O O D S dot com slash Melanie. And that link will also give you an additional $5 off each bottle of those dream creams, which again, I am obsessed with. These show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. That will be at Melanie Avalon.com slash purity. And again, the link puritywoods.com slash Melanie will get you up to 38% off as well as $5 off each bottle of dream cream. I cannot recommend it enough. If you got some money for the holidays, this is something really good to spend it on. Definitely let me know what you think about this episode in my Facebook group. I have biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life comment on the pinned post to enter to win something that I love. And then check out my Instagram finally Friday announcement post. And again, comment there to enter to win something that I love. All right. I think that's all the things without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation with Brian Vasily.

Hi friends. Welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation I'm about to have. It is about a topic I am personally obsessed with that I talk about all the time and that I found a new avenue in that I'm so excited about.  So the backstory on today's conversation, I was actually connected to today's guest actually through people who I met working with Dave Asprey, who I've had on the show multiple times as well. They connected me to this fabulous human being Brian Paisley, who has a incredible company called Purity Woods. And friends, I talk a lot on this show about the importance of safe skincare and makeup. You know, I am just neurotic about that. It's shocking the things that are in conventional skincare makeup and how it can honestly be the antithesis to what we're seeking when it comes to aging and beauty and, you know, promoting longevity. There's just that said, there are a lot of great brands out there that are looking to address that. And when I was not familiar with Purity Woods until this whole connection thing happened, and oh my goodness, friends, first of all, this is actually the first line that I think I will be promoting that is USDA certified organic. So we're definitely going to talk about what that means. On top of that, Purity Woods has an incredible mission that is completely in line with everything I talk about with the ingredients they put into their products. And then on top of that, I always, of course, try these products that I find. And I have become obsessed and used daily, specifically two of the products, the day cream and night cream. Friends, I'm not kidding when I say this, the experience I had when I was telling Brian this before we started recording with the way it smells and feels on your skin is absolutely incredible. And most lotions, oftentimes I don't actually like them. I actually wasn't historically using a lotion. I was using serums and maybe we can talk about that because I never liked the residue or the texture that it left on my skin. And oh my goodness, these products, they're just perfect. They smell incredible. They make me so happy. It's like an instant dopamine hit. And then they just blend into your skin and feel so good. And I'm seeing the benefits. So I'm going to stop myself from going on more of a tangent about that so we can talk more about the topic at hand.  But Brian, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to meet you. I have so many questions. Just thank you in advance.

Hi, Melanie. Well, we can end the interview there because it's about as glowing as it's going to. That's amazing. I appreciate the feedback.  And that's exactly the reaction we're looking for in that we often, just to be frank, get from people. And I will tell you this, I myself have been around a whole host of great natural health oriented products on all kinds of different fronts over the decades now. Never before, and I've introduced others through other organizations, but never before have we gotten that level of feedback from people that we get about the age defying dream cream, the age defying night cream you're talking about, but you did it so eloquently. I just touched. So thank you.

No, thank you. And what's funny is, so when I was connecting with your team, they're like, we're going to send you products. And they were saying that it's got this special maple extract and it's amazing. And you like see that on paper and you hear that. And I was like, well, I'm sure it's going to be great.  I didn't realize it was going to be like, literally, when I say a dopamine hit, I get a dopamine hit, especially with a night cream. Every time I put it on, it's like, amazing. Which by the way, can we just talk about this maple? Like what is this maple extract that you found? Where did you find it? What is it?

Well, it is indeed from maple trees. You know, that's a, it's an interesting question because you bring up, you know, one of the, not the only one, but one of the superstar ingredients in many of period, what's skincare product lines is maple leaf extracts.  And I'm a geek and I have been a, a, a ingredient and health geek for again, decades now, you know, a little backstory is I had launched our other organization, the art of anti-aging and as actually exploring more so, you know, going into, into supplements. And then both my wife and I noticed fine lines and wrinkles, frankly, around, especially our eyes, uh, crow's feet, as they call them. And I knew exactly what I was looking for. And I knew exactly what I wanted to avoid, which is, uh, we'll get to that. I'm sure highly, uh, unfortunately very common in skincare products. In other words, toxins of a wide variety, but I knew what I was looking for. One of those ingredients I was looking for was something that contained red maple leaf extract. Why back around, uh, you know, your before, before I actually launched purity woods, a big study came out of the university of Rhode Island. I believe it was in 2018. And it showed that maple leaf extracts contain over a hundred compounds, several of which, at least 11 of which are unique in nature. And they like nothing else known out there in nature. They block elastase and they boost elastin. So you may know, you know, that three primary components of skin that, uh, starts to look old, you know, to sum it up. In other words, it starts to get wrinkles, fine lines, parents of saggy looking skin, age spots, all this good stuff. What causes that is the breakdown of two proteins in the skin, collagen. Many people know that one, but also elastin. And then a third component is hydration and moisture. And there's other sub components to that. But those are the big three, you know, not many natural ingredients actually address at all, much less in such a powerful way, the elastin component as red maple leaf extracts, which indeed come from red maple leaf trees, and then there's other maple trees, different variety sugar, maples, et cetera, that also have these, these compounds in them. And they're only found so far, at least in maple leaves. So the whole process is, uh, you know, quite interesting. You know, people, we have literally people in Canada in this case, going and picking, uh, you know, trees that were unsprayed with anything they're, they're growing out, you know, and they're certified as organic amongst all the other ingredients in our products. They're picking maple leaves. And as you can imagine, that's a lot of maple leaves to, you know, to get this ingredient in there, but it works honestly, amazing. So the story is, is that it, you know, I couldn't find the product. I could not find a certified organic product that had that and several other ingredients that I wanted. So long story short, I'm like, okay, well, you know, we'll create it. And, and we did, and it worked like, you know, wonders around our eyes.

Um, I had a pretty decent sized, uh, you know, following already through this other organization, I'm like, this would be an injustice not to put it out there, so we did, and it's just gone, you know, crazy since then. So they're exceptional products.  Yep. And with that being one of the superstar ingredients.

Well, I love obviously the story where, you know, you can't find what you need. So you create it yourself.  So that product creation process, I know you said you were familiar with like the supplement world and things like that. How difficult was it and how many iterations like with the testing? Was it, was it hard to create like the right combination and the consistency that you liked cause you nailed it. So I'm like really curious what that product development was like.

It's a great question. So, you know, I'm not a chemist, biochemist. I am. I know enough to be dangerous on that front.  So we were fortunate just to be, you know, forthright here to have a couple of chemists who are true formulators and know their stuff. And they made it, it's all difficult, but it was much easier than if I was trying to do it. Let me put it that way. The hardest part. Yeah. So you'll find, you know, let me jump around and let me jump back. So you'll find other very relatively at least unique ingredients in our products versus so many products that are out there. The hardest part of all is the USDA certified organic part, meaning in order, you know, what's required in, in products to make them, you know, shelf stable to make sure all these products, you know, all these different ingredients mix a lot of, you know, getting into the geeky stuff here, but you know, is emulsifiers and all this type of stuff. And you've got to find these, you know, in nature. No, the truth is the beautiful thing is nature does provide. There's not one thing yet that nature doesn't provide, but sometimes it takes a lot to go looking for that thing, you know, in order to, in order to create that product that can sit on a shelf, makes all the ingredients mixed properly with each other, and is still going to be certified as free of junk that you don't want in your body. In other words, you don't, none of the toxins. So it's not easy, but I have some good formulators that that make it much easier.

Wow, that's a powerful statement. I love that that there's not something in the, you know, not one thing yet that nature doesn't provide. So question, could you eat the problem?

products? You could. It's not going to taste good. But you could. And you could feel very comfortable doing so.  Yeah. That's a great question, actually. Because, yeah, I don't recommend it. It's not going to be something where you go like, oh, man, that's so tasty. I want more. However, you can. Yes, it's safe. And, you know, that's a great litmus test, really, of anything that you're going to put inside your body. And please, everyone listening, make no mistake. But a lot of people do make this mistake. It's part of our job is to educate. You've done a wonderful job on that front. But make no mistake. Anything you put on your skin is largely, not entirely, but largely going in your body. And so you want that litmus test of, hey, could I eat this if I had to? It probably would, by the way, provide some nutrition, too, that you want inside your body. Some of these ingredients in there are sky high in vitamin C. So actually, it might be good for you. But don't eat it because it's not going to taste good.

So major question there because I do talk a lot about how our skin is our largest organ and obviously Maybe obviously it may be that's part of the question, you know stuff that you put on your skin Is getting access to your bloodstream? What is the difference there between? Our skin being an organ letting things in our body versus our mouths I mean presumably our skin would have more barrier channels to keep things from coming in and out But like to what extent to what extent does stuff actually get into us when we put it on our body?

Yeah, I'd rather eat something toxic than put it on my skin. To be honest with you, here's why.  So I've been I've been I've been, you know, we do a lot more, you know, than than skin health. We do the whole body health in the other organization. We put a heavy duty spotlight on all the latest and greatest research. That's the art of anti aging. It's really obviously, you know this well, it's all holistic. It's all connected. In other words, we tend to in the Western world here separate organs out. But that's not the way the body works. Our skin is, as you noted, the largest organ. It's one of, you know, all the other organs in the body. It impacts the health of your skin is not just a reflection of the health inside of you, it actually impacts the health inside of you in a big way.  And so in the case of skin, you have actually less barrier than in your mouth. So when you eat something through your mouth, it goes through multiple levels of attempted detoxification. You know, you got gastric juices that are very caustic. And then you've got, of course, you know, everything shooting through your liver. What happens with your skin is when you put something on your skin, all of these products, I'm going to tell you that it's easy for me to say most. It's easy for me to say virtually all products out there that you'll find on store shelves are range anywhere from very concerning to the amount of toxic ingredients to sky high in them. And all of these ingredients are designed to penetrate. Otherwise, they wouldn't do anything. They're kind of like fast food in the sense that they may produce very short term results. So you go and use one of these anti aging creams that are loaded with junk you don't want in your body. You're going to get likely some kind of result from it that you want hours or a day or two later. And you're going to be like, wow, that really works. The problem is it's putting in tons of garbage.  And I can first of all, there's 85 to 93,000 different chemicals allowed out there in our products of all sorts today, of which thousands are used in skin care. But there are some that are heavy duty use that I could put spotlight on for you in a bit. But they're designed to go into your body. Otherwise, they would just sit there and not do anything. The molecules, in other words, are small enough to penetrate. Now, the problem is even when they penetrate just into the deeper dermal levels of your skin, they can wreak havoc on you and they can rather ironically prematurely age you. So it's like fast food because fast food might taste good to many people in the moment, but you feel guilty later. You know, if you know anything about health and healthy eating, you're like, oh, man, what do I just do to myself? It's the same case with these common skin care products, but much worse. So these molecules are penetrating. Some of them may only go to the deeper dermal levels in your skin, but many of them do penetrate all the way into the bloodstream. And the big problem there, Melanie, is that they are then there's not really a filter and they're shot around your body, your blood, you know, your bloodstream.

And they're stored throughout organs, you know, all over your body. And a lot of them, you know, have very long half lives. In other words, they last a long time. They're very hard. Some of these chemicals to eliminate. So what happens is it's a compounding effect. And again, if you used one of these, you know, toxin laced, I'll put them, you know, anti-aging creams, for example, only one time on your skin. We wouldn't be having this conversation because there's nothing to worry about.  It is a minute amount. But in the United States, Melanie, the average woman uses 12 personal care products a day, which contain over 128 different chemicals. Now, that's daily. So this is why it's a problem, because these these nasty chemicals that are so overloaded in these products day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, multiple times over are penetrating. They are many of them are going into the bloodstream. They are shooting around the body. They are getting stored in the organs. And then what happens, Melanie, is that people have symptoms and they're like, I don't know what the symptoms caused by fatigue, brain fog, dizziness, moodiness, digestion issues, vision issues, shortness of breath, sinus issues, pains, these are chemicals in so many cases. When I have asked people to say, hey, you don't want to know if you don't believe me, cut out all of your cosmetics just for tried for two weeks and see what happens. Some people have taken me up on that and they're astounded that these so-called mystery symptoms where they're not sure where the sinus issue comes from. Oh, my God, it has this dizziness issue. It has actually subsided.  Of course it has, because these are chemicals and some very nasty ones at that that are getting stored in the body. So that that's the whole key here. It's it's worse than putting toxins in your mouth. Of course, I'm not talking about by the spoonful. Of course, any toxins by the spoonful are going to be bad for you. But I would in many cases rather eat than put these on skin because there are added layers of filtering, so to speak, when you put it in your mouth. They're not there for your skin.

To that point, one of the most mind-blowing things I learned in this whole sphere, I heard it on a Peter Atea podcast, and I think, I don't know if this is considered like what's actually happening by all allergists or if it was just this or if it's a theory. The expert on the show, her expert was like IGE allergies, and she was saying that, she was saying the way allergies develop is when you are an infant or like a kid, and you get exposed to compounds getting in through your skin because she was saying that if it comes in through the gut, the body learns immunologically that this is, it learns how to deal with it, but if it comes in through the skin, it sees it more as an invader.  I thought that was really, really interesting.

Yeah, well, it's an incredibly valid point, not to mention the fact that I mean, there's even a microbiome on our skin and and simply even the ingredients that and there's very few of them, frankly, that don't penetrate destroy these these healthy bacteria on our skin. That's part of your skin's job is multi purpose, right? But one of the key jobs is to protect your body. It's part of your immune system. It's it's the front line. It's the hardest working part of your immune system and all day every day in the world where 120 or so years ago, we didn't have 85,000 chemicals to worry about. It still had a hard job because it was trying to protect the inside of your body from all of these pathogens, etc. on the outside.  So another reason that skin care products are the worst toxic offender today, and there's multiple reasons I mentioned one of them. Another reason is because it's kind of like a double whammy. Your skin's job is already hard enough trying to keep out, you know, germs, basically, as the word goes. And now you're you're loading every day unknowingly in most cases, you're not doing it intentionally, but you're putting on all these products. And now you're taxing your your immune system there, including the microbiome and other aspects of that immune system on your skin. You're making their job a lot harder. They've got a fight. And these are foreign invaders to them. And and so many of them, again, are penetrating and are getting into the body and moving around the system. So, yeah, I mean, there it is theory what you brought up, but it's it's a theory I would bet a lot of money on because there has been a rise in cases of allergens. And I think we all can agree, you know, we're getting bombarded by toxins really in so many different directions these days. This is a very key one.  And another reason that it's not another key reason that it's one of the worst is because people don't know it and don't quite entirely buy it yet. They hear conversations like these many, many do trust, but others are like, yeah, but yeah, but but truly trust me on this. Your skin literally eats and anything you apply to it, you can assume is going inside of your body and it is accumulating inside your body and it's causing these symptoms. And worse than that, of course, it's these are all heavily linked to a wide variety of diseases, including neurological, in other words, brain issues, heart diseases, more widely known and more so even accepted ones are endocrine disruption, in other words, hormone disruption and carcinogens, including known carcinogens allowed in these products.  So it's just again, I've been at this 20 some 25 years now. And when I first started in all this, you know, we were trying to bang the pots and pans, so to speak, regarding processed food and processed food not being so good for you. And there was a lot of daughters back then who even called some of the, you know, the doctors I worked closely with quacks, you're crazy. Why would they allow, you know, why would they allow foods out there, processed foods that were that bad for you?

Now I'm hearing the same kind of stuff here 20, you know, 15, 20 years later regarding all these personal care products and cosmetics. Okay, but it can't be that bad.  Why would they allow it? Well, you know, we can delve into why they quote unquote allow it. But I promise everyone speaking, one of the best things you could do, whether you use Purity Woods products or some other certified organic products or no products at all, is move away, please, from these highly toxic personal care and cosmetic products.

Yeah, the lack of certification and regulation of everything is just completely shocking. And you're mentioning, you know, this toxic load buildup.  And something I talk about a lot is the cocktail and synergistic effects. So basically, even if something doesn't seem in studies to be, quote, that toxic, there's the potential where the toxicity curve might actually happen at different amounts than it's tested in, and then also different toxins that are different compounds that might not be toxic on their own when they interact can become toxic. And there's just, it's just really horrible.

really scary. You brought up a great point. I mean, you know, everyone remembers high school chemistry. What happens when you mix two chemicals? They become a different chemical.  What happens when you mix 168 different chemicals going into your body a day, day after day, year after year? Who knows? But the point is it probably is not good considering these synthetics on their own in so many cases are suspected or well known. Again, carcinogens, endocrine disruptors, et cetera. So that is a very powerful point. And I don't think, you know, it's funny because it's just common sense, but we get, you know, we've, we've been, we've been hit hard over decades now with, you know, frankly advertising and, and we don't, I think people treat their skin as kind of not one of the organs on their body. They treat it as more an experiment, but it is an organ. And once people realize that, you know, I always ask people, well, hey, here, I've got a product for you. Would you, would you, you know, without knowing what's in it, would you just throw it on your heart or your lungs or your brain, another, you know, other organs in your body, just to see if it might do something cool, but it might hurt you. You know, of course not. I mean, so it's, it's the more people realize, holy cow, I got to treat my skin with respect because it's tied to my overall health and longevity. And of course you're going to look much better long run, even mid run when you do. So people do, you know, finally start accepting that, but it's not something honestly, Melanie, that a lot of people want to hear because I realize people can be very religious about certain products that they love and have used forever. So it's hard to pull people away sometimes from that.

It's so true about people view it as an experiment. I guess because you see it and you get to see how things affect it with your skin.  Here's a question. Do you know what the average, on your face for example, what the average turnover time is for your skin cells? And so in theory, what would that mean? Like how soon should you see changes in your skin when you start using any given product?

Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, first of all, some, you know, your skin cells every single day are turning over complete turnover. Do you know that? I actually don't. I can look it up. I think it's seven days if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, I thought it was being quizzed. I'm like, oh, all right. How much do I wager here? But it's it's frequent.  I mean, every single day, you know, on your face, boy, my mind's moving in seven different directions because that's another great question. But I will tell you that while you're looking that up, that it's the great thing about skin, all right, in general, is that it is incredibly receptive to change, positive change. It's also receptive to negative change in not a good way. But it's it's it's one of if not the most fast to respond organs in your body to positive change, which means that when you that's why I said two weeks, you know, when you do reduce, reduce, you know, the amount of toxic chemicals you're putting on it. It's pretty quick, you know, to show positive signs back to you for doing that, for making that nice gesture to that part of your body. And then when you feed it truly nutritious ingredients, it's pretty darn quick to help eliminate fine lines and wrinkles and all that kind of stuff. It's really the same principle in the same way that you don't want to put bad stuff in your skin because your skin literally eats. You want to put good ingredients on your skin because your skin literally eats and it needs nutrition and certain just like nutrients you put in your mouth. They have great benefit for your skin.  I'd love to go there too and talk about that.

And I'm glad you're going there because I have a big, big question about that. So, but looking it up. So according to chat, GBT, apparently a full turnover cycle. So like everything on your face would be 28 to 40 days. But I'm assuming obviously it's happening leading up to that. And then it says in older adults, it can be up to three months.  But then it was, it's saying that that's sped up by things like exfoliating agents. And we can maybe talk about that. My question about where you're going and what I really wanted to ask you is so my history with my view on skincare was when I first cleaned up my diet and realized the profound effect of diet on my skin, I kind of went into this phase where I was like, Oh, I don't even need skincare because it's all, you know, from the out, it's from the inside out. And, you know, I should just only take off my makeup with coconut oil and I'll just eat my way to healthy skin. And then I had a little bit of a paradigm shift change where I was like, Oh, wait, actually, maybe I do need skincare, healthy skincare two part question there. One is, you know, how, how far can we go with diet and do we actually need skincare and then like thought experiment? Do you, like, do you ever think about, I think about this sometimes, like people way back in the past before we had all this exposure to endocrine disruptors and everything, like our ancient like hunter-gatherers, do you think they just had like glowing skin because they weren't exposed to everything today or do you think they still had a lot of aging problems with skin?

Wow, I love your questions. Really, I do because because that last question is heading into some not so in my opinion bizarre theory I have that I haven't seen completely fleshed out although I've seen hints of it in research so so don't let me forget that because that's a great question you just asked all of these really are so three levels one you are going to be much better off if you.  Drastically reduce or eliminate use of all of these toxic. Products out there cosmetics personal care products and closer to your skin it is the longer sits on your skin the more important it is to eliminate it that would be level one in if if you did nothing else besides that you're going to be all the better for but that doesn't work for a lot of people because I'm also including equation things like deodorant and other things like that where they're kind of essential today to some to most people at least. But if you did that theoretically speaking if you did that and you didn't change your diet you did nothing else you would notice positive results level two. You eliminate all the toxic chemicals from these products or drastically reduce at least from these personal care products skincare and you start to eat like you did a better diet or improve your diet by putting the right foods into your mouth and swallowing them into your body that kind of eating and yes that is much better the best though. Is what you what you're what you're leading toward again precisely because the skin eats and there are nutrients in foods really again you asked me earlier can you eat see I don't because it's not tasty but eat it well there's nutrients in these products and they help your skin they they work their magic at these different layers in your skin so of course you want to feed your skin you know healthy ingredients that help your skin become healthier and there's plenty of them that. Help on specific fronts I mentioned earlier you brought up maple leaf extract it has compounds that block elastic elastic is an enzyme that causes basically the breakdown of the last in the skin that can be you know pushed it comes slowly with aging relatively slowly but then modern day habits. Bad diets lack of exercise overexposure to some so on and so for all the usual suspects it's it's really pushes much harder on the breakdown of the last and so that alone you're putting nutrition in your skin and then people have heard in the right you want to feed your skin vitamin C yes by mouth is great but if you really wanted to go to work specifically for the collagen that's near near your skin and in your skin. Well feed your skin nutrition that you know sky high in vitamin C in the age-defying night cream and cream cream their sky high vitamin C ingredients expressly for that reason things like. Kamu Kamu it's the South African berry that's just like loaded with stuff and other great antioxidants Amla or Indian gooseberry same thing and it's sky high in vitamin C center so it's nutrition so you're feeding it now my theory.

Because you brought that up they probably they being our ancestors indeed likely had better skin they did not age they aged appropriately except for I would say when they got attacked by animals and things like that and didn't have good skin from all of that so they that's a hard one to answer because they had real real world problems you know calling and ripping out their skin my theory my theory is. The reason you know that these some of these plant ingredients work so well for skin we we've been brushing against plants we've been spending most of our lives as humans.  I'm talking human history here outdoors today we spend 90% of our life indoors which is a big problem to itself but for most of human history we spent most of our lives outside when it got dark you know then we go back and then we go inside the cage or we did that. You know so it was a reverse and when we're out and about as hunters as gatherers you know we're brushing against plants all day long they're interacting with our skin and some of them are creating positive relations and then some of them are creating negative relations but again think about the fact that you know through human almost all of human history we're outside brushing against plants all day they had an effect again because the skin consumes so it's not you know because I thought about that I'm like. That could be kind of weird that we're feeding our skin ingredients what's that got to do with nature and I realized that's what it's got to do with nature you know so. That was that's that's I again I haven't found deep research on this yet and I have my thinking about down the line doing it myself and just going exploring you know like that would be more anthropology I suppose, but you know the relationship of human beings with plants in terms of their skin and where this came from that certain ingredients can work so well for skin you know.

I love that you have that theory. I was going to ask you during when we're talking about the maple leaf extract, like why, you know, like why these compounds and plants would help our skin. And I forgot to ask.  So like, I love that theory. That's a cool theory. Yeah.

Again, this is the known ingredient that contains these elastase blockers that are great for your elastin in maple leaves. That doesn't mean you know this probably very well. There's so many unexplored plants out there. I mean, it's a darn shame that the jungles are getting cut down, et cetera, because there's so many plants. There's probably other plants that do the same thing, maybe even better than maple leaf extracts. It's the only one we know of that does that.  And it's a shame. And yeah, that's my thing is like we must have been brushing against things that have these compounds in them. Of course, a plant's not there for humans. It doesn't do this. It creates those effects like, you know, anything, you know, for its own reasons. But it's just like most medicine has come from plants. Plants didn't do it for us. It depends on your beliefs, I suppose. But they did it for themselves, you know, to protect themselves in many cases from invaders. And it just happens to be mighty beneficial for us. Yeah, fascinating geek out on this all day, Melanie.

Oh, I love that. I think about it a lot with, and you just touched on it, but I think about a lot with just all the supplements and foods and everything. I'm like, why? Why does it have this effect in us? So yeah, I love that conversation.  Question about the vitamin C. So, because I'm looking at the ingredients, for example, right now in your dream cream, the night one, and you mentioned, you know, that where the vitamin C is coming from. So like if you look at the label, I think most people are accustomed to seeing on labels for vitamin C products, seeing like the word vitamin C or seeing like ascorbic acid or something like that. You know, I don't see any of that here. I just see, you know, plants and oils and things like that. My question about vitamin C though, is I have had a guest on the show before and we kind of did a deeper dive into vitamin C and he was talking about the different forms of vitamin C and how it can actually be a pro-oxidant. How, I guess, is there a benefit to getting vitamin C in its clearly whole form where it's not isolated ascorbic acid?

Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, I mean, I compare that to whole grain. We'll start there versus, you know, refined grains. What happens is when you strip again, nature really does know what it's doing. I know I know, you know, we want to believe in human beings in lab coats and they have done some amazing things in labs, but it still pales in comparison, you know, to what nature is and has proven able to do.  And I'm going to circumvent. I will come back, but again, being around this for decades now, really, I've watched as so many of these ancient beliefs in different medicine systems, Ayurvedic, Chinese, Indians, other Indian beliefs, Native American beliefs have been proven by modern science. So so things can can exist, you know, for eons as a belief. And still today, modern people are like, well, you know, not until science says so, am I going to believe it? And then over and over and over again. Maple leaves, let's talk about that. In Native American traditions, they worship the trees for all sorts of reasons. The leaves, the bark and everything for different medicinal purposes. And now finally, science comes along and says, you know, maybe we ought to take a close look and boom, it's it's demonstrated that it has some profound effects on skin.  I bet you it has profound effects elsewhere in health, too, by the way. So it's the same thing with vitamin C. When you when this is a problem with synthetic ingredients, you said the reason we don't list vitamin C as ascorbic as or, you know, or anything like that is because we're not using anything synthetic. We're not breaking down. We're not using isolates. We're using nature's best in these products in its whole form, because nature still knows what it's doing better than we do.  And yes, indeed, you know, so you're when you have a grain, this is my comparison, I know where I went with that. You know, it strips out some of the healthiest parts of that. And sure, you've got the part that might cook best and be the best for for gluten and connecting a whole white piece of bread or something. But it's not healthy anymore. It's the same thing in this case. So instead of, yeah, you know, I mean, for I wonder if we ever shoot ourselves in the foot, so to speak, by not listing, you know, in that way. That's so conventional, because I did wonder about that. But then I try to put the spotlight on what at least the superstar, the top ingredients do in these cases. And so, again, you've got things like Amla, which is Indian gooseberry. And it's it's super rich in vitamin C. It just blows oranges and very conventional things away. And Kamu Kamu is even better for that. You've got mango seed extract in there, all organic, by the way. And that's sky high in the whole vitamin C that has that effect. So another great question. Thank you.

And actually, I'm looking at these ingredients, can I give you a product idea?

Oh, I love it.

Yes, please. This has witch hazel in it. So one of the last products that was difficult for me to get rid of when I was transitioning over my makeup and my skincare and everything was Urban Decay has this all-nighter setting spray. I know girls out there know about this because it's like the best thing ever.  And then one day I realized that witch hazel does the exact same thing, like and way better. So now whenever I do my makeup, I just spray witch hazel on my face. I tell you, you can make a witch hazel makeup setting spray. It would be such minimal ingredients and I mean, I would buy it.

times. I'm scribbling this down as we speak here. One little piece of paper I have available right here, but I did not expect product ideas. It's so cool. Alright, makeup settings.

Oh, brainstorming session. So I do know, well, actually, I know this for food. I don't know how this applies to skincare. I know in food ingredients, something can be classified as USDA organic, but not everything has to be organic. You know, there's like a certain amount that has to be organic.  So how does that apply to skincare? Like are some of these ingredients as every single ingredient organic or some not?

Well in the case of our products i'll say just about every single ingredient and then when it's not in some cases simply because it cannot be something like a mineral for example can't be. A mineral is a mineral it's not it's well it's grown over billions of years i guess you can make that case but you get the idea it's not you know it's it's there anyways so usda certified organic has very you know why see all these things lead to stories i want to tell that that are around ways of answering your question that i find super interesting and then sometimes i'll get lost on that path you just brought me back for example on the other one but bring me back on this but what's interesting is that a lot of people will say the government doesn't do anything i want to make i'm so surprised that they did get right i'm like this is so cool that they did this is they do apply usda certified.  To not just food everybody knows it's applied the food but it's also applied to skincare and and and why i'm like well wait a minute they understand what i'm sitting here talking to you about this is food. And that's why so they get that this is food is just food you're putting on your skin any skincare product i could tell you as a as a as a founder and someone who deals with his daily it's not easy to create these products that are truly. Certified organic but it's it is food and i'm like oh that's super cool kudos to you know usda for recognizing that that is food because they're not doing it on things like furniture and stuff like that you know.  So anyway yeah so that need they got something really right so it's food that you're putting on your skin in that sense so in the case of skincare usda certified organic means 95%. Truly organic and then there's a short list of acceptable ingredients and it's very short list for the other potential 5% including a lot of ingredients that cannot be like minerals for example so you're you're you're getting a very very clean there's no.  There are 100% organic products out there that might contain a single or two or three ingredients in there but it's not yeah that's that's kind of the standards 95% with a very short list you won't find on that if you go look up the short list for you know. Certified organic skincare products you can see that short list out there if you wanted to search it I think in a while since I saw that list but in our case it's it's 98 99% you know is certified organic products and the rest are very clean as well it's all plant based in our case. There is in one of our products there's beeswax this is a very funny how you learn these things that's controversial ingredient if you're vegan and I you know and I'm like okay I get it so yeah well the age defined dream cream has beeswax so if vegan is important to you that's the one you don't want to use the one you.

Love the most it sounds like the night cream bacon or I cream age-defying iron cream bacon so it's all plant-based ingredients here's the other side of the coin so usd certified organic in the case of skincare really means two things it means a look on that ingredient label and none of the ingredients in there are going to be toxic basically or potential or suspecting toxins in other words you don't have to worry about that aspect of things it also means that the ingredients that are grown. In our case virtually all of them their plant based are grown organically so that's the other side of the coin meaning no pesticides no gmo's you know no synthetic fertilizers and all that stuff which is many people know horrible for you as well so it's kind of a non in there and even the greens that were included were grown organically is basically the bottom line.

I don't know if you would know the answer to this. I wonder if USDA organic products can include fragrance.

No, no, no, they cannot. Well, you have to list everything. You have to be full. You see that?  That's a really nasty ingredient. You've talked about this. I could tell, but I know you've talked about it probably quite a bit because it is such a nasty little thing. They do. So fragrance, it doesn't automatically mean run the other way, but it almost always does. So when I see if I'm not, if I'm looking at a product, the first thing I am looking for is independent certifications on it, because there are literally thousands of ingredients that you may not want in your body. You're not going to memorize them all. I've been at this for decades. I haven't memorized them all. Nobody's going to. There are some very prominent ones that are easy to spot easier, but there's many that are not. So I always look for independent certifications of some sort. There's more than just USDA certified organic. If you're in Europe and elsewhere, there's echo search. So there's, there's other certifications. It's just to me that one that I know that's the strictest, most widespread here in the United States is USDA certified. So I look for that. But if that's not on there, then I do have, and it's something for some reason I really, really want, you know, I'll turn it around and I will look at the ingredient label. And if I see fragrance on there, I put it back and I walked the other way. So you're right on that front, because what that means, you can educate probably just as well, if not better than I can on this, since I know you do, it means that they're hiding stuff basically. They're allowed to hide stuff because the reason they're allowed to do that, it's a so-called trade secret, meaning it's their little special formula that they created to make it smell artificially good. Maybe to make it smell like musk or strawberries or pine or whatever the artificial scent is. And they can lump a bunch of ingredients in there and say, that's our private, you know, proprietary formula. We don't have to tell you that doesn't pass muster with USDA certified organic. You've got to disclose everything. You can't even have that word on there.

Okay. Yeah. So just to iterate for the audience, like, yeah, it's a legal loophole from the 1960s and they can literally put anything under fragrance. It's so frustrating to me.  It's like, cause then you can't, everything's out the window. Like if you see fragrance because you could check every other, like you just said, you could check every other ingredient on there, but you don't know what's in fragrance and good luck getting that information from the companies.

Exactly. And there's been multiple studies on this thing. I mean, many people cite, you know, EWG took a look, the environmental working group, and there's other, it ranges anywhere from an average of, I've seen 12 to 120 different chemicals often hidden under that one word. And are they really part of this, you know, synthetic fragrance of things? Who knows? But the point is, they're a bunch of when they have dissected it, so to speak, a bunch of nasty ingredients you don't want in your body in most cases.  So for me, again, it's just like automatic, it's a no. And by the way, there's two, look for if they're being very basic, they can also call it scent. And if they're being very French and fancy, they can also call it parfum. They all mean the same thing. Parfum, scent, fragrance, avoid it. It's my take.

Yeah, so frustrating. It's kind of similar.  It's one time I it's not the exact same thing, but it's kind of like in food, you'll have artificial flavors or natural flavors. And, you know, they won't say what's in that one time. One time I was eating a like a horseradish sauce that I liked and I emailed the company to ask what was in the natural flavors. I emailed them two different times and they gave me two completely different answers of like a specific ingredient of what it was. I was like, this is concerning. They're just making up stuff.

unless they change the formulation over a short period of time. No, you're 100% right. That's crazy.

And then going back to these ingredients that are band, there's only what, like 11 in the US band?

Oh my gosh. So there's about 1,600 banned in Europe and other countries. This is telling unto itself. I mean, you could really, if people really get, you know, pay attention to this, it says everything. So there's 1,600 in that range, ingredients that are banned are extremely restricted for use in cosmetics and personal care products in Europe, in about 40 some countries, actually beyond Europe as well.  In the US, a total of 11, just 11 ingredients banned. And, you know, we talk about the size and what's the size of the beauty industry? What's the size of, you know, the skin industry and people cite anywhere from 120 billion to 500 billion. It's way bigger than that because who are the real companies pulling the strings in this and not just in this by the way, but in all of these other types of products out there, furniture and clothing that are so loaded with toxic ingredients and many foods, who's really pulling the strings there? It's the chemical companies. They're the super power. I mean, these other, you know, industries are giant too and they benefit in a big way, but the, but the ones really pulling the strings, including in DC, if anything ever comes up and anybody ever dares, you know, to step into this sacred ground of requiring, you know, uh, chemicals be kept out or be closely looked at, they're the ones that step in. They're lobbyists, they're people. So the beauty industry is probably, you know, a trillions of dollar industries. When you include all of these chemical companies who provide these, you know, artificial and you know, these synthetic chemicals that end up in these products, that's not going to change. I'm sorry. I have to be very realistic about this. I would love people to speak up. The only way it changes is when, when people change it with, with their pocketbooks and I hope it's purity woods that you try, but you know, there's other conscientious companies out there like us. It's hard work that they're doing it too. And just please patronize, go shop at purity woods or these other organizations or all of us who are trying to change it because that's the only way that the big, you know, the mega giants in the, uh, this industry starts saying, Hmm, maybe we ought to start really changing.  Yeah. It's, it's, it's actually a sorry situation. And it's, it's just so sad to see this happen. You know, the other downside of this, we talk about environment all the time now your body's the environment and the same thing happening inside your body. This stuff's also hurting animals. You know, it ends up what happens, you know, when, when you wash it down or you, sorry for the button is here, you pee it out, whatever. A lot of this stuff is just getting into the waterways and hurting other life on this planet too. So please patronize organizations like ours, if not ours in this sense, because there are some good people out there fighting the good fight.

I would like to research like the ones that actually are banned, like I wonder how they compare in toxicity to all these other ingredients, but there's not that much, you know, like I wonder like I wonder what made them actually go and ban the few ones that they did ban like was that like somebody who was actually trying to have some initiative or

Yeah, in one case. Well, I don't know all of them, but I do know one and it's the strangest thing in the world because it's called triclosan. Triclosan, the reason that they banned it in part, in part, and I'll explain a little bit more, is because of public outcry. So in 2016, it acts as an antibacterial agent triclosan and it was banned but only from hand soap. It was banned. It's still allowed in creams that you put on your face, including you can put around your eyes the most sensitive area of your skin, of your whole body. So you could put it elsewhere on your body and it's allowed in other products, just not in soaps. It's strange, really, because people outcried against it. So that's where they landed.  I'm like, well, wait a minute. If you know it's bad, why is it allowed in other stuff, including stuff you're putting so close to your brain? But no, so in most cases, you make a good point. I know what you're trying to say and you're looking, you know, scrutiny at so many ingredients. You know, there's all kinds of reasons to ban a whole lot of ingredients out there. Phthalates comes up all the time and it's true. Phthalates are horrible.  One of the worst, if not the worst in my research experience are all these different variations of formaldehyde. The very same stuff that everyone remembers, you know, probably from

in high school.

Yeah, high school biology. It's used as a preservative in cosmetics and it's a known, not a suspected, it's a known carcinogen that's also really strongly linked to neuro toxicity, brain toxicity, to asthma.  It's allowed. It's allowed in products. And again, they will make the case, well, it's just a small amount, you know, it's a small amount, but it's a small amount that if you use it day after day, week after week, you know, in multiple products, it's not a small amount anymore. They don't have to prove that a bunch of products using it, you know, over time are going to have an effect. All they have to do is show, well, in our case, this tiny little amount is okay. It didn't, it didn't kill all the rats or something like that. So, you know, you brought that point up early and it's a good point too. It's just like, again, if you used one of these products once, we wouldn't be having this conversation, but it's the fact that, you know, people use them day after day. And so many of them that counts and formaldehyde, it's just, you know, it's another one. The tough thing with some of these two is that, you know, you got to go looking for very scientific words because it doesn't just say, Hey, we use formaldehyde. You know, there's, there's all different types of names that have that in bedded in the name, in some cases not even. And then sometimes it's the combination of ingredients that creates this formaldehyde. So it's a nasty one, but there's a bunch of nasty ones. And if they really took a close look, they do what Europe and others are doing. And they'd say, nope, we're banning these, but we don't here.

now I'm developing my own theory about something. I'm thinking through because you just mentioned you know all these ingredients that we're putting on and maybe small amounts but just that built up effect and so this is actually this touches into a larger topic I wanted to ask about but then I have like a theory related to it.  So men versus women in skincare. A, I find it so interesting that men are not into skincare the way women are. You're a man. I'm wondering your thoughts on men and skincare. My question theory here is it's interesting you know women have longer lifespans longer lifespan than men. That's just you know pretty pretty understood which would mean presumably women are aging you would think that mean they're aging better if they're living longer and yet when it comes to aging men age like a fine wine like I'm always saying like it's not fair like men get they look better the older they get and then women were like haunted by aging. I mean I've been haunted by aging since I was 13 so I'm wondering to what extent the amount of ingredients of skincare that women are putting on versus men is having an effect in that aging look in our skin and how women seem to age faster than men.

Man, your questions are amazing, honestly. And boy, I want to go in about three, four, five different directions to answer that. I'll go direct first. This is my, after decades of experience in this, this is my statement. The average woman probably looks about 10 to 12 years older than she ought to look. This is why when people say, ignore the fine lines and the wrinkles and all that age gracefully, I'm like, I love the intention of that. That's a beautiful thing. I get it because we don't want to be 50 and striving to look like we're 20. That's not gonna happen. But most women, again, let me use 50, who are 50 look like they're 62, 63 years old.  Now, a big part of the reason indeed is lifestyle habits. So the quest, the reasonable quest and the good news inherent in the reasonable quest, by the way, but the reasonable quest is to try to look as young as you ought to look. And most men and women don't, but you're hitting it on the head. Most women don't more than most men because women from a very young age, again, this is a big social issue we're opening up here, but from a very young age, use a whole lot more product than men. And so that is a very key reason why, again, fast food. Yeah, in the moment, some of these very synthetic ingredients will, in a very short period of time, make you think, oh, my skin does look smoother. But then not in a very long period of time, it starts that early age, the way you look. It starts to early age you. And so, yeah, you're apparently an incredibly brilliant human being because that is where I've landed as well. So it's like, well, that's a big key part of it. Men and women, diet wise, we both have big picture speaking, very similar poor diet habits as a whole. I'm not talking about me and you personally, but in the big picture, we all, as a whole in this country, especially the United States, need to exercise a whole lot more.  So all of those things age us too, but the kind of age is equally. And then there's probably other ones where inside our bodies, men take more of a toll historically than women, and that might age us, men are rougher. Again, historically, I don't wanna get into gender or stereotypes or anything like that. Historically, men might be bashing their body about more than women on average in the world, but women are abusing their skin more than men because of all this junk that they use a whole lot more than men.

Okay, so I'm not too crazy with that idea.

now you're friggin brilliant with

the episode that's airing this week on my show, like while we're recording, not when this airs is about the simulation hypothesis. So now in my head, I'm always like, is there like another reality or simulation where it's a different way?  So now I'm thinking like maybe there's another world where the men put on all the skincare and makeup and they're aging faster on the outside.

Now, if it's a contest, the men are slowly catching up, but it's not one that we want to catch up on. In other words, you know, more and more now in the last, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years, men are using more product. The problem is, you know, they're catching up with the negative effects of doing so.  So if they're gonna use more product, you know, it's the same thing for men. Please use, you know, products that don't harm you, that instead help your health, or at least go neutral on your health. Yeah, so men are slowly catching up there. I think when I cite that figure, it's 12 personal care products a day that women use, on average, contain 168 chemicals. And then I saw men are somewhere like, forget what it was, seven or six a day. And it used to be much less than that. So they're slowly catching up, for better or worse.

your consumer base for your products? Are they, what person is it? Women versus men or if that's proprietary data, you don't have to share.

Oh, I'll share. I don't care.  I mean, that's, that's the good thing about, you know, again, my over generalizations here and I, you know, is that women are much, much smarter about taking care of themselves or trying to and hearing this kind of stuff and being open to making change. So unfortunately, and I say that not for the women, but for the men, unfortunately about 90% of our audience are, you know, customers are women. I love the fact that women do that. I just wish more men would, you know, also say a holy cow, you know, because again, more and more men are using this and more and more men are caring about, you know, obviously taking care of their health and, you know, having healthy, wonderful looking skin and stuff like that. But yeah, they're just more resistant I'd say to, to, you know, new directions in many cases, not all cases. Again, I don't want to over generalize, but I wish the proportion would change and we'd get a whole lot more women of course, but the proportions would go up for men, but they're not. It's about 90% women.

Well, and I'm, I'm assuming all of your products equally work for men versus women like the same.

Yeah, our products and that obviously everyone's, you know, got unique signatures and in every part of their body including their skin So you're gonna you're gonna I hear my favorite this my favorite that and it's interesting to me always and and I don't know precisely I'm not gonna pretend to although I'm a Y person. It sounds like just like you So I want to know but what I'm referring to is different people have different favorite products who've used our whole line And and I'm always like I wonder why that person, you know has used the age-defying Night cream the age-defying dream cream and the age-defying eye cream and they love that one the most but this one has done the same Thing and it's because skin, you know is slightly different, but it's not there's not it's not so much gender based I mean our skin is just chemically somewhat different, you know each person to the next and so that's why

I would be curious if you created a product, even if it was the same product, but you branded it towards men, if they would buy it more. You'd be like the exact same product, just like.

Yeah, again, I'm always so I'm so funny. I was like walking so carefully around this because it's not all men. It's not all women, but I'm sure if we had different color schemes and different graphics on the bottle, we'd have a lot more men and probably not, you know, necessarily a lot less women for that matter. But who knows?  But yeah, that's, that's how it goes. And that's what a lot of companies. This is no secret. I mean, you know, a lot of companies do that sort of thing out there. Pitching just about the same very thing to a very different, not just it's interesting too, but I by the way, not just men and women, but generations too, you know, most of our, you know, our messaging is to middle age and beyond women largely. But, you know, increasingly, I think our fastest growing segment are people, women in their, in their thirties kind of makes sense because they're, they're hitting on those years when this really starts to matter more and more. But I don't think we do a good job, to be honest, about marketing, so to speak, to that age group yet.  And so something I'm exploring like, okay, how do we, how do we speak? You know, somewhat of a different language because there are nuances to stuff like that. But this is an outstanding, I don't, I would say I don't know if I think those who are in their twenties, especially young twenties, they need the education of all this, but they don't necessarily need our products. Although they probably do some, you know, good things for them. They're certainly not bad, but they don't need the products because these are really, really strong on the front of correcting a lot of issues that lead to the appearance of fine lines, wrinkles, age spots, all that good stuff. And also prevent it. And they're just so young at that age, but they need the education aspects so they don't screw up their skin.  You know, so yeah, but it's all, you're asking interesting questions. It's all the nuances of the look and the language and all that kind of stuff.

Have you heard the, I don't know who came up with it, but it's like the idea that we are, we're different questions throughout our life. So I think like when we're young, we're, we tend to be like what people like we want to know what and then as we get older, we want to know when and then when we're like, much older, we want to know why, but I think I've always been like a white person about everything.  I just want to know why.

Sounds like it. Yeah, you're an old soul then because yeah, yeah because I really could I think we talked about You know how long this interview could be and now I'm like well I actually could sit here and talk four hours with you because

This is how it happens. Oh, man.  Here's a foundational question. You were mentioning earlier the animals and the environment and things like that. So what is what is your leaping bunny certification? And also what is you partner with a tree planting company?

Yeah, one tree planted. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, and again, here too, I know it's kind of the thing out there to associate yourself with causes, but I've been associated with, you know, helping. I guess it's just in my nature of long before I had any kind of company at all, whatever. And I do really believe in that. And so, first of all, I'll go backwards on that. So one tree planted. Yes, you know, we make a donation, you know, every year, and it's dependent on, you know, volume of orders, and it's a substantial donation. So much so that we always get very nice feedback from that nonprofit. And so one tree planted, what they do is they reforest. They go in areas such as those that have been devastated by wildfires, right? And as everybody's probably well aware here, this is unfortunately a much bigger issue today than it was 20 years ago. And 30 years ago, there's a lot of deforestation for different reasons, including wildfires, just forests getting cut down. So they plant trees. And it's as simple as that. And, you know, they're nonprofits, they're entirely dependent on different forms of donations. And I am so happy to be able to put trees in our world.  And then the other one, let me hit you with a statistic that I learned not long ago. So I dug deeper into this, and 88% of the 50 biggest makeup and skincare companies still do animal testing. And I was like, what? You know, it's one thing, and it's an ongoing argument. And I can understand that it's more of an argument when it's true, but it's really testing, you know, animals for, you know, medical products and devices that save lives. You know, even there, you know, I don't know how everyone feels. And you're always walking in careful waters on that front. But for cosmetics, that's a little astounding to me that 88% of them test on animals, especially because I know what I know, which is this. There are different, you could do human cells in dishes, but there's even better than that. Now they have computer programs. And it's actually better results than any animal testing. So you can actually, so I'm like, why don't they go through all that? Well, it's more money. That's why in some cases, at least it's more money. I'm like, that's terrible. You know, we don't, you know, we don't need to do that in this. We never probably did need to, but we certainly don't need to do that in this day and age. I don't even want to get into Melanie, some of the tests they do on these poor animals, but we don't. And what Leaping Bunny certified is a great, great certification. It's the other one. So we're all USDA certified organic. And we're also all Leaping Bunny certified. And what that means is you have to demonstrate, you have to prove that your products from start to finish, meaning even the production lines and even your suppliers never ever tested on animals. It's cruelty free. So it's not just words again. It's like we're, we have to go through. I believe in that. Again, I always tell people, be very careful of anything a company says about itself. Look for certifications in these areas that really matter.

So yeah, that's the Leaping Bunny certification. Thank you.

Do you know if they're planting any maple trees?

I do know they are. Yeah, they plant all kinds. Oh, really? Yeah, you know, they plant maple trees, they plant oak trees, they plant a lot of, you know, timber type of trees that go quickly for. Anyway, that's a cool organization too.  I just love what they do.

Awesome. So the beeswax, are there any certifications for working with bee farms? I know that's a whole topic.

That one I know that we go from a very small humane purveyor of that, but I don't know if there's certifications out there, to be honest, that look specifically at that. Yeah, so that's the one product that has that. Yeah, backed into that one because I was like, wow, I had no idea there was a raging battle. And then I started looking, you know, searching online and even among vegans, there's a battle with that. It's amazing.  Some of these things you find out when you go into, you know, that you never even knew existed and some believe it's okay and some believe it's not okay, you know, so. Yeah, but I don't know if there's a specific certification that went for that one single ingredient, but I do know we, you know, again, you could tell I'm all about it better be humane or forget about it. So on that front, if you mean that the Leaping Bunny certified, yes, they look closely at all these aspects of anything like that.

Awesome. Yeah, I actually I really want to do an episode on bees. I'm just I think they're so fascinating.  So that's a tangent. I have a question about one specific ingredient. One of the products it talks in the description about how it has a water activated exfoliant. And that phrasing is so interesting to me. I was wondering what that means water activated for the exfoliant.

Well, we have an exfoliator. That's a great product.  And it is entirely water activated, meaning it's powder, you know? Oh, okay. That's all it means. It just means you got to add water. Sorry, that one's not so thrilling and interesting. Yeah, we went boring on that one. But that's all it means is that, you know, and there's different reasons for that. Why pay people, you know, I mean, why should people have to pay for shipping and something when I can make it powder and all they have to do is add water in the palm of their hand and mix it and then I have a great exfoliator.

question, do you have a favorite product? And if there was like a gateway product, like if people can only if people's budgets are limited, and they want to start with like one approach to their skincare product line, or what the products are using, what would you suggest?  Like what area do they need to focus on?

Yeah, like the interview I fantasize about that never happens when we're at where I'm like, what if somebody ever asked me what my personal favorite is? And so that's never happened before.  I, they asked me the best seller and I talk about that, which is the age to find dream cream. It's definitely the best seller and it's, you know, and if I had narrowed down to three greatest products, it would be age to find eye cream age to find dream cream and the age to find night cream. But my personal, because of what I know about the potency of the ingredients and what they do is your favorite, meaning the age to find night cream. That's, that's the, that's the real, they're, they're all great. So I don't want anybody to get me wrong, but the age to find night cream has some really powerful ingredients. So your skin at night that, you know, I always tell people, if you're going to, if you're going to put product on just one time a day, do it before you go to bed as long as it's clean and certified organic and all that.  But you know, a good product, put it on at night because your skin is in regeneration mode. And the big difference between the age to find dream cream and the age to find night cream is the dream cream has certain ingredients such as amazing ingredient called astaxanthin. That's really also protectant against a lot of in that case, you know, sun and other things that happen during the day. So you want to wear the dream cream in the morning and you know, if you want to put it on twice, feel free to put it on the middle of the day, anything like that.  But at night, because your skin is in the ultimate regeneration mode is when you want to feed it certain ingredients toward that end. And the night cream has those ingredients. Now there's some similarity in some of the ingredients, but there are also some pronounced differences in the ingredients. And it's got one, for example, called Tramella. That's T R E M E L L A. It's actually Tramella fusiformis. So if we're getting all scientific, people may know that some people a snow mushroom, an astounding, awesome ingredient, just one of the great ones. But you've probably heard of hyaluronic acid, right? Yeah. Okay. So and hyaluronic acid is natural and it's really, really good for your skin. We don't have it in products because we have this Tramella.  And there is research has been studies done showing that they are at least equally effective. But Tramella may be even more effective because its molecular size is even smaller. So hyaluronic acid can hold about 1,000 times its weight in water. And this Tramella even higher than that, over a thousand, I can't remember exactly, but it's over a thousand. Well, this is one of those three components of healthy, your youngest looking skin, if you will, that you want to address. You want to address again, collagen, elastin, and hydration slash moisture. So at night, this ingredient is in the night cream. It's an organic natural mushroom called Tramella. And it, it's really, really revitalized your skin.

It gives this ultra hydration. And so it just has that plump, healthy, natural look from it.  In some cases, some people claim overnight, I would never make that statement about our products out there, except to say some people say it, but I know it happens quickly that your skin can look a whole lot better really quickly with the night cream. So that's the one I would personally choose. If I had to choose one.

Does it talk about that on the website, how it's like a hyaluronic acid alternative? Someone.

Probably since you're asking that not not prominently enough, but it's somewhere in there. Yes. I'm sure it is. Yeah

I'm just thinking about I find it so interesting that people are so educated on the seeming benefits of things like hyaluronic acid or like retinols and retinoids like do you have an alternative to the retinol world?

Man you in these amazing questions listen retinols what people don't know about retinol. Yes I know they're they're the it ingredient out there. They are synthetic people don't realize that it's not natural vitamin A it's a synthetic form of vitamin A and The yes, they're kind of like I wouldn't call them fast food to call them medium fast food Yes, they produce the amazing results, you know that that people give them credit for however There's a reason that in many if not most cases they create this redness and swelling Etc on people's skins in many cases when they first start using them because the skin is rejecting them There's a reason the skin the body rejects something.  It's like nope not good Well, that's the problem with these is that they do break down Skin including, you know the cells they can make it regenerate fast But it's much weaker links if you will besides cells and that's why when you use retinol It makes you far more susceptible over time to skin cancer because it's it's you're compromising You know the integrity of your skin basically and so yeah I always told you know, I know with it's partly marketing. We've been trained to hear that and oh my god And they do produce it does produce great results that you're looking for I guess in many cases, but it also has that horrible side effect and when you get redness and swelling It's typically a sign from your body. You might want to be careful here.  So you brought that up. That's great You brought that up in the eye cream and the reason the reason it is in the eye cream Especially is you've probably heard of maybe you haven't but kooky all is that a new word to be a K you? Ch I will

I've seen it marketed as an alternative.

I think. And it is. And it's a wonderful one.  It comes from a plant called the bopshee. It's really in bopshee oil, so it's B-A-B-C-H-I. This is an Asian plant, has this bakukiyal compound, bakukiyal, weird spelling. And yes, indeed, in studies, it's shown to be just as effective as retinol, has all the same cool benefits. It is entirely, like I said much earlier in this conversation, you know, nature provides, has all the same benefits, and far safer for you. So you'll find that, again, in the eye cream, because, you know, there's certain, the reason there's certain specific ingredients in our eye cream is because the skin around the eyes is so sensitive. And you know, it's 0.5 millimeters thick around the eyes, it's like just almost paper. And so you want to be super careful. And I would tell this to people, too, by the way, if you don't listen to anything else that we have spoken about here regarding, you know, potentially toxic ingredients and all these skin products, please at least keep it away from that skin around your eyes. It's so micro-thin there. And then what's behind all that, your eyes and your brain? Just please be careful with anything you use around your eyes.  But this has some of, you know, nature's best ingredients for the skin around your eyes, including this wonderful bopshee oil with bakukiyal.

I didn't realize that ingredient was in there and the good thing about all this people being obsessed with retinols and all these other things is you can really quickly communicate to people like, oh, it's got a natural alternative to this, and people immediately know what that means. And I found that's a big selling point, not to sell it to people, but to get these products in people's hands.  And are you currently developing new products?

It's a slow, but sure, you know, you'll notice when you go to purity was We don't have dozens and dozens of products because i'm just going to tell you it's it's First of all, we have the most essential and now you gave me a great idea for another that sounds like it's rather essential Which I appreciate but yeah, we will likely come out, you know with we just came out with not too long ago Like I said the exfoliator which is fantastic getting great, you know feedback on that. We have pure radiance, which is a Cleanser you got to be careful with your cleansers to soaps, etc Many many reasons.  This is everything we've talked about today, including that you're basically scrubbing in You know a bunch of chemicals that you don't want to scrub into your skin But uh, we're probably this, you know in 2025 going to launch a mask Is the next move, you know, we do have a couple select supplements everything moves In the best direction, but never the fastest direction. What I mean by that is I only want to put out The best I you know in turn in two senses. It's got nature's best ingredients truly And it doesn't have nature or anti-natural junk that you don't want in your body So it takes time it's hard work and then you got to go through the whole certification process It's a lot of work but i'm i'm very happy with uh, you know being able to do this for people for the world and all that good stuff and We'll say I think the mask is is the is the next move and I think people are going to love that

people will love that. People love their masks. That's awesome.  One just last quick nuance question about the eye cream because you were talking about how our skin works or what happens with our skin in the day versus the night. So the timing of the eye cream, when is it best day or night? One thing about it that I really like, it like wakes you up like from this, like the smell and the like, it smells wonderful. But for me at least it, it's very energizing feeling putting it on just from the ingredients, but it's my own personal experience.

And mine too. I agree with you. I agree with you. And it's funny thing about scents, you know, again, all natural scents, obviously, but, uh, I hear different feedback on that. So again, it's a very personal experience with smells even, but I'm with you on that.  Also for me, I put it on in the morning, eye cream on the more. I put the dream cream on in the morning at night. You can do it. And I hear some people do that, you know, in the evening and it's going to help you. It's going to work great. I don't know. You know, it's such a personal thing when people choose to do this. Is it early evening? Is it right before bed? You know, there's a certain process, as I think most people are aware, you want to put your lighter, you know, ingredients on before the heavier ingredients, you know, take it in that order of things. But either way, honestly, with, with the, uh, with the eye cream, it's this bop shoot. It's not the only amazing ingredient in there, but that the cool call is just such a powerful, fantastic ingredient. Another one where I hear from people all the time, Oh my God, it helped me overnight, you know, or helped me in one day. I'm, I would never make that claim, but we've heard it enough that it's just like, I'm not surprised knowing the biochemistry of what it's doing. So good question. Yeah. It's funny you brought up the smells because, uh, we put a lot into that, you know, just to make sure it's kind of a scent that everybody's going to, sometimes when I first go, you're asking me much earlier about working with, you know, our formulators and sometimes they're just so specific standout sense that I'm like, Oh, we've got to change that. I might like it, but I know there's going to be a big bunch of people that don't like that. You've got to find these almost neutral sense that everybody probably more or less will like.

to that point, to drive that home. In general, me, as a person, I do not like... I want things to be no smell because I'm so delicate flower and I'm really sensitive to smells.  Literally, these products, they smell incredible. They're amazing. And that's saying a lot for me because I typically really err towards... I don't want to smell anything. I want it to just be completely neutral. But that dopamine from that maple, I don't know. It's something.

Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, well, you just you just, you know, resolve the headache of mind, because again, that's so much work goes into that.  And we keep it subtle, you know, the sense and yeah, I do hear good things on the senses. Awesome hearing that from you, because I can't tell you how many headaches going Oh, no, it's just a little too much this or too strong that or whatever. So that's really good to hear.

Yeah, please, please never take it away because I love it. Well, this has been so amazing. Was there anything else you want to touch on and share with the audience about everything?

No, you I'm gonna touch on the fact that you're listening to someone who's amazing everybody I mean, honestly, I knew this beforehand But and I've been I've been in both sides of the microphone in many interviews and you just asked the best questions I got to tell you, you know that really help people but they're coming from a real place in you I love doing this interview. So, thank you

Oh my goodness, Brian. Thank you so much. I have enjoyed this so much. Like the time flew by, like I said, like you said, I feel like we could talk for like four hours. Well, this has been incredible.  And you have honestly, one of the best offers in, I mean, maybe the best offer that I've experienced in this skincare world. So friends, you can go to puritywoods.com slash Melanie and get up to 38% off. That's crazy. That's amazing. Okay. So puritywoods.com slash Melanie up to 38% off. I will put in the show notes links to all of this and especially like my favorite products that we talked about. But thank you so much for that. That's really helpful for people. Awesome. And so the last question that I ask every single guest on this show, and it's just because I realize more and more each day how important mindset is. So what is something that you're grateful for?

That's easy. Now, I'm grateful for you and all these wonderful questions. I really am. I'm not just saying that.  I mean, you asked a lot of the questions that I told you. I fantasize about being asked in interviews. I'm like, boy, I wish somebody asked me that. I wish they would ask me that. And they never do. And you did. I feel like so much lighter. I felt good before this interview. I feel even lighter now.  So thank you. Again, it's just coming from, I can feel it, the right deep place in you. You're awesome. And that makes, I'm sure all of your listeners. Awesome. So thank you, everybody. If I contributed anything that helps you in any way, I'm grateful for that too. So thanks for this opportunity, Melanie.

No, you are beyond amazing. And actually, and something that you did that was unique. So whenever we book for the show, we send out like a prep thing or like an intake form and questions. And we ask if the guests would like to be asked anything in particular. Although honestly, I don't actually normally look at that.  And I sort of just go by what I want to ask. You sent over, well, hey, like incredible questions and like answers to the questions. I was like, Oh, he's into this. Like he's like, I could tell from the beginning, I was like, he is passionate. Like he's the real deal. So it's so, it's so wonderful to meet you finally. And I don't think I can fly any.

higher than I'm right now, but thank you.

Oh, man. Well, thank you so, so much. Again, puritywoods.com slash Melanie, are there any other links that you would like to put out there for listeners?

Well, I would just direct everyone where you just said you're going to find, you know, all the products, whatever may interest you, like you said, up to 38% off. So puritywoods.com, I guess, forward slash Melanie. I know my team created that specific link. You know it better than I, but check it out.  Everybody. We have a great customer service team. I do want to add that by the way. We're also really known for that. So if you have questions or anything, you'll find, you know, the contact us info at the bottom.  And yeah, again, Melanie, I just, I feel good right now. So good. So thank you.

Awesome. Well, yay. Well, thank you, Brian. This has been so incredible. We'll have to have you back on the show in the future, hopefully. And yeah, enjoy the rest of your day.

Love it. Thank you so much.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast.  For more information, you can check out my book, What When Wine? Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine, as well as my blog, MelanieAvalon.com. Feel free to contact me at podcast at MelanieAvalon.com. And always remember, you got this.