The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #341 - Pattie Dale Tye

TRANSCRIPT

Pattie Dale Tye
many lessons are learned at the table, be it the kitchen table, the dining room table, the cocktail table. So many of our lessons are learned there and we create our personalities in those early days.

It's not about just funding your needs, it's about funding your imagination, your friends, your frequent flyer miles. What you do best, what makes you unique, anything that we say the word nurture with means that I'm giving, right? That I'm feeding, I'm watering, I'm tending to, I'm taking care of. Because if you don't, you're gonna lose.

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast, where we meet the world's top experts to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and biohack your life? This show is for you. Please keep in mind, we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes you may experience from implementing the tactics lying herein.

So friends, are you ready to join me? Let's do this. Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Friends, I so enjoyed today's conversation with Patti Dale Ty. She is an incredible woman who has had an insanely accomplished career, and she loves sharing what she's learned with others. That's right. Today's conversation is about one of my most favorite topics ever, and that is our career. In today's conversation, we talk about how you can truly transform from ordinary to extraordinary, i.e. extraordinary, when it comes to your career, including very practical ways to accomplish that, things like how to build your network, what to do in the first 90 days, what you can learn from aptitude tests, and how to find your passion, how to stop these Sunday scaries, whether or not you should do weekend emails, when to say yes, whether or not you can have a healthy career, marriage, and kids, and so much more. I just love how incredibly kind and supportive and amazing Patti is, and it was such an honor to have this conversation.

The show notes for today's episode will be at melanieavalon.com slash career. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. I can't wait to hear what you guys think. Definitely let me know in my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, Intermittent Fasting plus Real Foods plus Life. Comment something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pinned post to enter to win something that I love, and then check out my Instagram, find me Friday announcement post, and again, comments there to enter to win something that I love. All right, I think that's all the things. Without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation with Patti Dale Ty. Hi friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation I'm about to have, and I really, really mean that with the excitement because friends, this may be, this is one of my favorite topics to talk about and just experience in my life of all time. That is actually your career. So the background on today's conversation, when I received the pitch information about this book, I was an immediate yes just seeing the title. So the title is Ordinary to Extraordinary, although on the cover, there's, I think, a purposeful dash. So it's Ordinary to Extra-Ordinary. Achieving Remarkable Career Success Through Passion, Purpose, and Preparation. It's written by Patti Dale Ty, who has an insane history of working at incredible companies, AT&T, Humana, 30 plus years of P&L leadership.

Melanie Avalon
She's done a lot with the companies that she's done that she talks about in her book. What Patti makes very clear is that one of her gifts and one of the things that brings her purpose in her life is to give back to the world of people pursuing their careers and the form of guidance and consulting and writing this incredible book.

So the book made me so excited because I've been obsessed with the idea of my career literally for as long as I can remember. So I was really eager and curious to see what wisdom might lie therein and the book touches on so many topics. So I was really excited that it takes the approach of really appreciating the role of generosity and human relationships in your career and how to cultivate your network and what that means and what that looks like. And then so many actual really practical things like what should you do in the first 90 days? What should you actually wear? Should you do weekend emails? Like how fast should you go? What are the different stages of the career? It's really, how do you find your passion? I could go on and on and we will when we talk in today's interview. But I enjoyed reading it so, so much. It made me think of so many questions I have about my own career and I'm sure you guys have as well. So I'm just really grateful and excited. Patti, thank you so much for being here.

Pattie Dale Tye
I am delighted, and what I'm so thankful to you for right now, Melanie, is the generosity of the time you took to read the book. Because wow, you hit on so many of the important points. And believe it or not, sometimes I'm invited on shows not as good as yours, but other shows, and they haven't read as deeply. So it's a very generous thing you did, and I thank you. And it'll make our time together so much more lively.

Melanie Avalon
No, thank you so much. And I mean, that's actually one of the points of your book is the role of preparation in your career. And when I was reading that, I was like, this is so me. Like I was having so many flashbacks to any job I would do at any time. I was always like neurotically over-prepared, you know, to show up for it.

I have a really quick question. Just this is so, so random. But okay, the book cover is stunning and beautiful. And it's actually kind of like a tie-dye. Is that at all like an Easter egg for your name? Because your name has tie dye in it.

Pattie Dale Tye
Oh my goodness, I will answer that this way. Has my husband, it's his name I took, has he been called Jim Tada? Yes, he has. But I did not think about it.

I think the cover was just about brightness and joy and happiness and brilliance because everybody has that in them. And right now we've got some dark things at work and in the world and I wanted brightness.

Melanie Avalon
I love that and to like go a little bit more on just what I was saying because I've read a study that people's, that we like people more who have our, like if my name starts with an M, which it does, like I'll like people more whose name starts with M's. People named Dennis are more likely to be dentists and so I was just wondering, like your name has like had this tie-dye vibe that has gone into the cover but to that point of what you're saying because I think like when most people think, oh, career advice, like they think it's going to be like this really, I don't know, maybe boring, a little bit intense, rules regulated, like here's what to do but I love that this covers everything that you just said, like this, you know, beautiful, inspiring, multicolored, you know, adventure.

So I love it so much. And then just one little quick other personal thing before we jump more in, I think I mentioned this in an email but I related so much to part of your book because you talked about when you were young doing one of your first, I guess, career attempts was Girl Scout cookie making and it wasn't even, yeah, it wasn't even the real Girl Scout cookies like you had your mom, you sold them before you even had them and then your mom had to bake them.

Pattie Dale Tye
Yes, I had seen my older sister do it, and I thought, well, I can do that. And I just made my own little order form. And my mother never said a word in scolding.

She was like, okay, I'm going to pour into this one. I'm going to pour into this one. So they were just homemade slice and bakes of all things. But the neighbors paid for them and loved them.

Melanie Avalon
It's so funny because I read that and I was like, I started thinking about my Girl Scout cookie days and I was like, why did I not, why did I not think to actually turn this into an operation and like enlist people under me and like, you know, create like an MLM when I was, but the thing I did is I would after, when I was young, after Halloween, when they would mark down the Halloween candy, I would, I don't know if I would buy it or like get my parents to buy it, but then I had this like little vending machine toy and I would fill it up with the candy. Yeah. So I guess I would buy the candy and then I would fill it up with the candy and then I would sell it to my siblings.

Pattie Dale Tye
That is too funny. Oh my gosh, are you the entrepreneur of your family? I am, yes. There you go.

See, it happens early. We can track it back. I say in my book, and when I'm talking to people, so many lessons are learned at the table. Be it the kitchen table, the dining room table, the cocktail table. So many of our lessons are learned there. And we create our personalities in those early days.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so big, big question there that kind of ties into everything and it relates to A, what you just said, like your family, your upbringing, and then what we've been talking about about when you're young and you're finding these things that you love. So like I've said, I've always known that I want to I've always been like passion driven and purpose driven. And I've felt like I've had what you call in your book like my why I've never questioned like I've just known what I want to do even if I don't know like specifically what that is. But I've never struggled to quote, find purpose or find out like what I wanted to do.

And so I'm haunted by I'm like, I'm haunted by this question of where do you think purpose comes from? Why do you think some people like me, you know, feel motivated and know that we want to do the things all the time since as long as we can remember. And then some people, a lot of people don't know what they want to do, either don't know what they want to do or don't feel motivated to do, you know, different things in life career wise. So the question is, where do you think that comes from? What was that like for you growing up? And then you know, how much of it are we just innately born with? Or is it things like how you were raised with your family and stuff like that?

Pattie Dale Tye
Wow, that's a big one. That's a big question. But it's so important because I fear that so many people today have moved into a path that will never bring them joy.

But it's what, societally, they feel like that would be a great career. I happen to be a chief operating officer for a law firm, a great law firm now. But there are people there that probably don't find joy in that work, while there are others that it is their passion and has turned into their purpose. So I think you don't start out, necessarily. You may be an anomaly. And my very best friend is an anomaly. She always knew that her purpose was to serve the needs of mentally challenged children. She knew that when she was 10 years old. And she ended up doing that. You and she are blessed with learning that early. Most of us don't. We stumble into it after years. And where I tie mine back to is my parents got my aptitudes tested when I was 15. And aptitudes are, and you mentioned this, Melanie, they are your innate strengths. They are the things that come easy for you. And those could be music. They could be athletics. They could be fine motor skills, computations, engineering. Those very special to you aptitudes that finally you learn and your aptitudes, you don't keep growing new aptitudes. At 18, you've got all you'll have, but you turn them into skills. And if you have fine motor skills, fine motor aptitude, you may turn that into being a surgeon or an engineer or a seamstress. So you take your aptitudes and then your world presents how you take those aptitudes and turn them into skills. And then for me, after years of my skills being put to work, that's when I could look back and say, I am passionate about this, and this must be my purpose in life.

And does it include things you learned at the dinner table and the breakfast table and the cocktail table? You bet. It includes environment. But I think it starts with those innate aptitudes that we all walk around with. And if we don't express an aptitude that we have, you are clearly an actress and you love to emote and you love to have conversations that go deep. And if you didn't feed that, you would be frustrated in other places in life and you would not know why. And we've all been there probably. And we blame it on our teacher, our parent, our partner, our current work situation, our leader. And none of that will be cured until we go on stage and we get to perform our craft. We get to use that aptitude that's sitting there saying, let me out, let me out.

Melanie Avalon
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.

I did not, it's funny, because the aptitude test, I never really thought about what aptitudes actually are. I remember taking it, because I remember taking it, I remember being like, why do I need this? I know exactly what I want to do. But I remember actually at that time being really, really fascinated by a lot of my friends who didn't know what they, did not really know the path that they wanted to go. I think mine actually, it split me between saying I should be a lawyer or a performer, I think, I can remember correctly.

Pattie Dale Tye
Melanie, sometimes those careers overlap because a lawyer has to stand up in trial and he or she is working very hard not to necessarily perform, but to articulate and to convince, and that's what an actor and an actress would do.

Melanie Avalon
too, right? Mm-hmm. No, completely.

It completely makes sense because I think when people hear career and job, like some people might think, well, my career is just to make money and then all my joys and passions are outside of that. Do you think, because I often say that I think the world would be just a completely different place if everybody, as their passion, that could be how they sustain themselves, like that could be their career. I mean, I just think the world would be an insane place.

Is that possible though? Are there some people who like the quote career is just not going to be the thing that lights them up?

Pattie Dale Tye
Well, here's the thing. Your career is typically 90,000 hours long. That is a long journey. So you need to be very intentional about that journey. And if it doesn't bring you happiness, I mean, imagine you're doing that 90,000 hours. Why would you waste your precious life and not do something that lights you up? And will it light you up every day? Heck no. There are gonna be Mondays where you wake up and you go, oh my gosh, I don't even wanna go do this. But watch yourself, and when you get in, and you get into the rhythm of what you do well and what you know lights you up, and you are prepared, because without preparation, you will have no confidence. And without confidence, you won't stand in the space that you're supposed to be standing in, and then everything cycles down. So you've gotta have all those P's.

But if I'm gonna be in something for 90,000 hours, I'm gonna need to love it. And that's, you hit so perfectly, Melanie, on why I wrote the book. Because so many people just think it's a means to an end. It's just something I have to do to complete this awful part of life which says I have to fund my needs. It's not about just funding your needs. It's about funding your imagination, your friends, your frequent flyer miles, what you do best, what makes you unique. It brought me a husband. I met my husband at AT&T. I mean, there's so much that can be done on that 90,000 hour journey. Do not let it just be something that is a means to the end. That's so sad, it's such a waste.

Melanie Avalon
life. I cannot agree more.

And you touched on so many topics that I would love to like rabbit hole into. So friends, for example, talking about how just incredibly practical this book is, because, you know, like you can hear, there's a big overview to, you know, changing your mindset and your approach to life. And it's also very practical. So there's literally a whole section on Mondays and weekends and the quote Sunday scaries. And actually, when I was reading that chapter, I was just filled with immense gratitude because I realized being a complete full entrepreneur, like on my own schedule, I was reflecting on how I don't have the fear I don't have the concept of Mondays really anymore, like every day is kind of the same day to me in a good way. So that was a generosity moment for me. But the Monday chapter, I was just really reflecting on so is that is that a sign of people not doing it being in a career they like if there's all this dread and fear about Monday, or does everybody experience that regardless? And why do you think we have that?

Pattie Dale Tye
I know. Isn't it interesting? And I loved that you had this call with me on a Monday.

Melanie Avalon
Oh yeah, just see, it's a Monday.

Pattie Dale Tye
I forgot. Yes, it's a Monday and I love that. And so I believe that we love the joy. Everybody loves the joy of freedom from structure and commitments every now and then.

And that's what a weekend is. And if moms and dads are listening to this, they're probably saying, not for me, that's when I spend time with my kids. But that's joy. That brings you great joy in life. But I think that it also, you get to exercise control over everything you do for that weekend time. And then suddenly it comes to a halt. And we've got to get back into gear and back into ready to get into that next 40, 50, 60 hours. So I do think there's a little bit of Christmas morning just got passed too fast. And we've got to take a deep breath. And what I do is prepare, like you said, you were an over preparer. I prepare diligently on Friday, so that I don't have any worry all weekend long. And so that when that little tiny dread comes in on some time on Sunday, when I have to look at my calendar and say, now remind me what I'm supposed to be doing tomorrow, I look at it and I go, ready? I'm ready. I'm ready. Oh, good. I get to do that. I also mention, put some things that you are, you're excited about. This was one of the things on a Monday that I was excited about. And I have another meeting this evening with two other fabulous women who want to talk about how we build some work around helping either college seniors or high school seniors understand their 90,000 journey, 90,000 hour journey. It's never too early to start getting your head in that space so that you can hit the ground running. That's exciting to me.

Melanie Avalon
So 90,000 hours, that's assuming that you're working how many years? So that's...

Pattie Dale Tye
That's 40 to 45 hours with about 2,000 hours a year. The typical work week is 40, we get 50 weeks a year because we take some vacations.

So I use the old 20-80 per hour, per year. So believe it or not, I mean, people start doing some work at 18, 19, 20, most of us that go to college start at 22, but it averages out to people are working that long now.

Melanie Avalon
something about the weekend and this will actually go into a larger topic. It's funny, so I was acutely aware while prepping for this show. I was kind of running late with finishing up the notes and everything and I was like, I was like, well, I have to get this to her by Friday because you know, then it's lights out. I was like, I can't send Patty a weekend email after reading the book.

Pattie Dale Tye
Oh my gosh, you're so kind to say that. I would have read your email whenever it came in, but it did come in.

Melanie Avalon
I learned a new way of optimizing my process to get the guest questions prior to finishing my notes. So it actually really benefited me as well. But it's funny. I just made it a really high priority.

So just another though really quick personal random question about this topic because this also haunts me. So speaking of that idea of like 90,000 hours and how that breaks down and how many hours you work a day. So I just love working. So I'm like always working. It's hard for me to stop. So that's a whole other topic.

So like for me sending emails because I really want to respect people and something we can dive into in a bit is the role of generosity and the employee-employer relationship and networking and all of that and giving back. But when it comes to me and my personal emails, it's helpful for me to be able to send emails to not wait to send an email. So like just send it anytime and then I'm just like, well, it's on other people to have their own boundaries about whether or not they read the email. But at the same time, you have a really good point about like if you're an employer, you might not, you know, you could not send weekend emails to, you know, I guess respect the time of the employee.

So where do you fall on this? Because this, because I will send emails at like 3am, I'll send them on the weekend. So how do you feel about this?

Pattie Dale Tye
I think you you you nailed it two things number one you said I work all the time I love working so your brain is never gonna take its you know it's not gonna say it's Friday at 5 digital detox I'm turning into a different person right you are you are your work right now which is a I think it's a beautiful joyful thing and it's the whole thing about the 90,000 hours why would you put on one hat to walk that trail and then put on another one when you came in the home at night so that's one thing the other thing you said which was brilliant is yeah it's up to me to manage my life and my balance by reading emails that one one of the things I say in the book is there's a great book that I reference never check email in the morning and people are like how could you do that blah blah blah well the point of it is let me have my day prepared in my mind I have prepared for this day before I open my email and suddenly I'm reacting as opposed to being the proactive prepared person that I know I am it will give me more solid footing I'll be much more successful in my day if I have it all ready to go and then I open my emails so it's okay for you to have sent an email at three o'clock in the morning as long as you don't expect me to read it at 305 and that was what this leader at Humana was was working through we had gotten so always on and that's what you're describing as being always on we didn't respect boundaries as well as we should have and the email that I would get on a Sunday morning before I was walking out to go to church might make me have to turn around and have a whole day's project because somebody else didn't get their you know their email out by Thursday so now it tumbled downhill to me or uphill to me and that was what we were trying to avoid was we were trying to say we've got to have some boundaries I think we all now learn and know when to respond and and we learn how to best we can balance with being on all the time but that digital detox helped us not only have our life back on the weekends and our families and whatever passions we had that were outside of work but it also made us a lot better in the Monday through Friday game because we had all gotten so sloppy that we would say I'm just gonna work on that till on Saturday I'm just gonna work on that which then meant your colleague had to do their work on that on Sunday so that was the genesis of it

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and for me too, even though I'm saying work, work, work, I still am really intense about my daily self care and my times when I just don't even check email. I have a weird hybrid approach to the morning email, which is I am not a morning person at all.

And I find that checking email actually, I find the checking email once I wake up actually wakes me up and gives me a lot of dopamine. But I will not open anything, you mentioned like being in a reactive state, if I see emails that I know are going to be distressing for me or stressful in any way, I never open them right away ever. I like let it sit and then I wait until I don't feel stressed.

Pattie Dale Tye
I think that's great. That's self-control too. Most of us would be like, oh my gosh, what's the doom and gloom? That's exercising exceptional self-control.

Melanie Avalon
And I also love that you said in the book that you actually never want your inbox empty because you always want something to be working on. So I was like, you know what? That's a really great reframe for people who need to get to like inbox zero.

Pattie Dale Tye
Yeah, there's a little book that I read a million years ago, and that's where I got it from. It was like, your inbox should never be empty.

Wouldn't life be boring if it were? But yet we want to see those new emails, the dark colored numbers, we want to get that down to minimum. And if you reframe that, it means if I'm doing what I love, there's going to be more of that to do with the more emails I get.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love it. So like I was saying, this relates to an even a much bigger topic or a more broader topic, which is so we were just talking about the you know the employer respecting the time of the employees and whether or not you should send the emails or not and things like that a Huge huge theme in your book and it's again some it's something I also have thought about for a long time Which is the role of relationships and networks and I remember in college So I went to USC film school and our little theme that we used to always say was or our little the thing we would say Was our mantra I guess was if one of us makes that we all make it But it was basically this idea of the importance of a network and so I have so many questions about networks, but I love love love about your book and you is You know, there are a lot of resources out there about how to build your network And I think they often come from a selfish perspective potentially More about you know, how can I advance my career by having this network?

your approach is very much about like I was just saying like we're all in this together and this idea of like Lifting while you climb so like bringing people up with you and then giving back and you know You got this really incredible section on trust and how important trust is and relationships and and all of that Were you were you always aware of the importance of the quote network? And how do you feel about what I just said about? Sometimes it's presented selfishly is it is it actually always selfish though because we're doing it technically to you know Help us in the end. What are your thoughts on on networks?

Pattie Dale Tye
Well, I think so. So you are your network and that little network starts again at the family dinner table. That's who you know at that point. And then you go to school and you have 18 to 20 to 24 years in school where there's this big network. Remember how big your network was, Melanie, in school? And those are natural networks.

And then you move into the work or career network. And you need to nurture all those people in your, we used to call them a Rolodex, but now it's in our linked dinner, in our address book. And to nurture them, anything that we say the word nurture with means that I'm giving, right? That I'm feeding, I'm watering, I'm tending to, I'm taking care of. Because if you don't, you're going to lose. And I'll tell you, I say this in the book, I was not, I was not good at keeping networks early in my career. I felt guilty when I would leave a role. And so I was like, let me get away from these people as fast as I can. Because I felt guilty. And then I began to realize, oh my gosh, you need to take them with you. And you need to get them back active in your network. And I have used, I have used LinkedIn, I've used just simple emails, but I really try to reach out to most of my network, you know, at least every year to say something or to congratulate them or to say, I was just thinking about you today. And at my point in life, Melanie, which is, I'm past the 85,000 hour mark. I know that it is one of the most precious assets I have. And I can call on that network when I have questions that are personal, when I have needs that are business, when somebody reaches out to me and says, do you know someone who could do this? And I'm putting you in my network now. And I hope you will put me in yours. But these are precious assets in our lives, but they won't live if you don't nurture them. And that's give and take. So yeah, am I going to ask for things in my network? You bet. But am I going to also know that I've got to pour into it so that that little bonsai tree of a network stays healthy and glossy and moving its limbs as best it can? Yes.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, this is I felt this for so long and I just think they say like it's not what you know who you know It's probably both but um the relationship aspect I just think is so so vital for Well happiness and career success I think a reason that like this podcast is so wonderful is because I get to meet so many incredible people and have really really deep conversations and like you just said like I Like all of my really good friends and business relationships. A lot of them came from this show So I love this idea of cultivating the network and then like you said maintaining it by reaching out I think about this a lot though because they say they say I don't know if this is true I should fact-check this they say, you know, you can only have 300 like maintain 300 relationships in your brain or like actually maintain them so when it comes to Maintaining your quote network and all the people you've met over the years because you mentioned like reaching out but what does that actually practically look like because I was thinking about that this week because One of my friends and prior guests on the show She's like doing really really well.

She just randomly texted was like hi and I was like, oh, this is like amazing I was like I should do this more with random people But then I was like, what does that practically look like? Does that mean I actually like make a list and text text one person per day? So can you just talk a little bit more specifically about what that looks like because I think about it a lot

Pattie Dale Tye
Yeah, and so I want to start with a story. And part of my life, I was blessed to live in Houston, Texas. I was there for 13 years. And what a fantastic city. And the people are so warm. And they taught me so much about generosity and giving back to move forward.

But the Bushes seniors lived in Houston. That's where they chose to retire and live out their days. And so we got to see them a lot at events, et cetera. And one of the stories that I think it was Barbara told was that she and George would sit down every morning. And they would, out of their giant Rolodex, and it really was one of those old-fashioned things. You may not even know what that is, Melanie. But they would systematically go through that Rolodex and send probably a letter, sometimes even a phone call. But they would touch their network once a year. They were very intentional about reaching out and touching their network.

That was so motivational to me. I have a newsletter. And gosh, with all the great information you harvest in your world and your work, Melanie, you should have one, too. I would love to subscribe.

Melanie Avalon
Do you have one? I do. I have a lot of different ones, but there is one for this show that, yeah, and for like my general brand, which is another topic in your book.

Pattie Dale Tye
Yes, so my network gets my newsletter, but then I have no problem with going into places where I have five, like I call them my wonderful tribes of female friends, they're deep friends but they're all different and we travel or we drink wine or we do whatever together and so I probably touch those many, many times a year. Newsletter touches some other people, the larger network, once a month and then LinkedIn.

I nurture my LinkedIn as well and when something happens to somebody that I know, I want to reach out and use words to talk to them on that LinkedIn and they now do it with me and it's such a great feeling and a great use of that tool and I'll do the same on Facebook but we are so blessed to have all these platforms to do routine touches. So I know you will figure out how to do that and if it's five texts a day, that's fantastic. You're just going to have to get used to, maybe that's a wake up while you become your moving into your morning, maybe that's your bright way to start your day.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. I love it.

I feel like right now I am just thinking about the timing of things. I feel I like that you mentioned the wine drinking. I'm a big wine fan. I tend to have a glass of wine every night and that's when I tend to do my happier stuff and I'll send texts like that. Also, it's when I'll do emails that I'm not looking forward to that I feel like I need to be a little bit more sparkly.

Pattie Dale Tye
Yeah. Oh, that's right. That's a great idea.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, some of the emails that I'm like, not to use wine as a lubricant or anything, but ones I'm like kind of not looking forward to, I can actually make them fun if I'm having a glass of wine. So I kind of, it's my hack to like always enjoy my emails.

Pattie Dale Tye
regardless. I love that. I love that.

Melanie Avalon
So I really I really really love all this about about the network and maintaining it so I love that you are so approachable that's something that I feel like I like doing as well which is like I will I mean I will talk to anybody if anybody like is like I often get emails for people want to connect me to somebody for whatever reason they want podcasting advice or you know biohacking or whatever it may be like I will literally talk to anybody and I love it and I love meeting new people. So with you doing that have you ever is it mostly just about you giving back to you also learn from from mentoring do you have like any memories of maybe learning something completely unexpected from somebody that you're mentoring or speaking with?

Pattie Dale Tye
Oh, I'm learning it from you. I'm learning it today. I'm with you. Don't ever turn down an introduction. And, and for me, the most important person in the conversation is not you. It's the other person.

And so would you turn that dial on? You are automatically learning. And I, I love, like tomorrow I have a meeting or a mentoring meeting with a gal that used to work for me years ago. And she's just at a place in her career where she feels a little stuck. So my mission will be to get her unstuck and to remember all her gifts and what she loves, you know, that she does best. But I won't end the call without having learned a lot myself.

And for tomorrow she happens to work for a very large insurance company. So I've got my set of questions for her to say, how are y'all dealing with the GLP ones and all the expense that's going on into that? You know, how, what are the latest drugs that are the blockbusters that you know are going to cost the insurance companies an arm and a leg, but are going to give people life that they didn't have otherwise. So I'm intentional about who I'm talking to and what I want to learn.

Everybody has something they can teach you. Everybody.

Melanie Avalon
I cannot agree more. I am fascinated by and a little bit distressed by it, but in a good way. Like there is so much information out there and so much that could be learned. And I find it fascinating that, you know, people have really specific nuanced likes and they can't even ever learn everything about it. You know, like I could listen to an episode on like beekeeping for like two hours and who knew? You know, there's like all this stuff and it basically I'm haunted by, I've said that a lot this show, but I am haunted also by there's like so much to learn that I'll never learn. So point is I love connecting with, you know, people and learning what I can from that conversation. I think it's the best.

So when you, so speaking of people who are younger and starting in whatever job it may be, you talk about the role of the first 90 days and, you know, what to do then, like the role of first impressions, how you don't have to be the smartest person, you're not supposed to be the smartest person there. And like the mistakes that people make this first 90 days at the very, very beginning, you talk about three potential career stages in a person's life. So just framework wise, what are the three career stages? And then this first 90 days, is that at any, any new job that you take?

Pattie Dale Tye
Yes, any new role that you take and my heart and head went out to three populations when I wrote this book because I've been in awe. The first one is that first, you know, my first at bat in career or it could be my first time in career that I stumbled but that's still in my early days and I always like to to remind people of the 10,000 hour rule that you only can really get good at something after you've done it for 10,000 hours so you're not even really good at work for the first five years you're just learning how to work so you need a lot of structure this is no time to stumble this is no time not to put all your energy into learning how to be excellent at work and then this next area is those folks that have had to step out of the work world maybe they stepped out just to take a month-long sabbatical and now they're coming back in maybe they left to take care of family but it's scary to come back in and my heart goes to them and I want them to be very prepared but what I want them to do because they do know how to work is to have confidence to go back and and write down all the things they accomplished that were so good go back and look at your resume and add brightness to it because you did a lot and you didn't leave it behind and then the third is this group and there are a lot of us out there right now that are in our third stage and that means we're probably done with traditional work but we're not done with career and that's that's really Melanie where I am I'm helping I'm a fractional chief operating officer at a law firm I am now an author and a national speaker I'm not ready to I love a vegetable garden a good vegetable garden but that's not all I need to be doing right now and the world needs all of us to be sharing our gifts everywhere so the third stage those people that are so scared that if they walk out of that door the last day they will walk away from that 40-year identity and they don't they don't they take everything with them they just have to leave their their laptop and get their eyeballs punched out of their badge and turn around and give that to somebody but they take everything else with them and and they need to remember that and then think about how do I reuse that so that was such a long answer to what you asked but those are the three those are my three target audiences for this book

Melanie Avalon
with as far as like exiting and then reentering with men versus women, like are women more likely to because they'll have kids and stuff?

Pattie Dale Tye
Yes, they are the ones that tend to do this more often, or Melanie, they move because they're the trailing spouse, and so they have to go there and carve out a whole new career. My heart goes to them, but they can do it, and they can do it brilliantly.

They just need to put some preparation to it. And the main thing is get their confidence back.

Melanie Avalon
to that point, because you mentioned earlier your marriage, I was super intrigued and inspired to read that part of the book because I have historically, I guess in the hierarchy totem pole of my life, I felt like I could, I would not be able to do a relationship justice because of my career focus. So it was really interesting to read how you and Jim have navigated that, with both having really successful careers and not, I don't want to say compromising, but you guys both maintained individually your careers and did what you had to do to maintain that while still honoring your marriage.

So can you expand a little bit on that? When did you get married to him?

Pattie Dale Tye
People have been married 35 years next month, got married in 1990, and it's not easy, but it can be done. We moved all over the country.

I was blessed that I was at that place. Every career generation has its own inflection point. My inflection point, and I think of that as when's your back? My inflection point was that people were interested in promoting and moving women forward, all that many years ago, moving women forward. And today, I really think the inflection point is with the jizziers or with those just brand new, freshly minted college graduates, there is such a negative feeling about the work ethic of this younger generation that if you have somebody that is just like you, Melanie, and is going to love to work, is going to get there and they understand their first five years, they just want to get excellent work, they're going to shoot to the top because people are going to be so surprised because they are expecting, there's been such negative press about this generation, that they're going to be so surprised that there are hard working, excited, I couldn't wait to get to work today, people that they're going to shoot to the top. So the millennials don't know how to lead the Gen Z's because the Gen Z's are very, very demanding in terms of life balance. Am I working for a purpose? I'm not working just for money. I need standards with why I would do much work, et cetera. Now, I don't think every person is like that, but I think there are a few loud voices made even louder through social media that people think this generation isn't full of hard workers. So their inflection point is if they work hard, if they show up, if they smile when they get to work, if they do a great job learning how to work, and learning how to work is a big deal on something you're doing for 90,000 hours, those first five years, learn how to show up great at a meeting. Learn that somebody is always watching you. Learn that your breaks are going to come when you least expect it, and when they do, you better be able to jump on and take that one for a ride. So back to the marriage question, we both respected our careers, and my husband was kind enough to me to say, you know what, you probably got a little more wind at your back than I do right now, so let's follow yours for a while. But he always was right at my wing, and ultimately it meant that we moved a lot and we were apart a lot, but our marriage was, other than faith and health, the most important thing to us, and then right under that was career. So we were able to do it, and it was actually quite fun, Melanie. I mean, we lived nine different places in 13 years, and we had just, we had a great time, but we're happy we don't have to move right now. You do not have kids.

Melanie Avalon
It's right.

Pattie Dale Tye
We do not, and that wasn't career. I always want to tell people that the way I say it, Melanie, we were not blessed with children because we never didn't try. And it was just not in God's plan for us.

We committed to every weekend we saw each other. So it wasn't even like, well, they were never around each other. Not true. And it just, our family is different than a lot of families.

Melanie Avalon
I'm really intrigued and interested by the topic again because I don't think I actually personally want kids. I love kids.

I just don't know that I could be like the mom. So the relentlessness and the preparation and the show up and everything that I put to my career, if I had a kid, I would want to put that towards the kid and then I would feel torn between the career and the child. So, I don't think it's in my cards.

Pattie Dale Tye
And you never say never you know what when that person comes along that you're just like wait what? We do we do our lives in decades.

I think Melanie and and So you don't have to do it all in the same decade you can be excellent at career during this decade and then Excellent minus one in the next and an incredible mother But all those things if you choose it did not work that way for me But God bless the people it works for it. Just you know we That was how our little family ended up and my husband was kind enough to say that to me one day I like our family just the way it is. We're okay and and that was quite a you know That was that was a milestone moment

Melanie Avalon
One of my friends told me they don't have kids and she was saying that, and then I read this actually in another book as well, but it was a concept that if you're not creating kids, like what are you creating together in your relationship? So I thought that was a nice reframe.

Yes, it absolutely is. So something else about the early times of a person's career, so there was two things I read in your book that are both very helpful and also might seem a little bit contradictory, or I'm curious how they work together, which is one, this idea of when you're fresh and new, you talk about how some one of the reflections you have about your own career trajectory was how you wish that you had let some things, I guess, I think something about like a garden, like grow, like are basically not rushing into things so much. So how do we balance not rushing into things, letting things mature versus also this idea that you talk about later in the book, which is saying yes to more things. So how do we know what to say yes to if we should say yes to more, but also not say yes to all the things?

Pattie Dale Tye
How do we notice it? That's a tough one. And I'll tell you what, when I get asked that by folks I'm helping coach or mentor, the number one reason I get a phone call from someone is because they've got a new job opportunity. They've got a new role opportunity. And so I regret, and that's what the part you're talking about is, I regret that I rushed off from certain roles too quickly. I had not soaked in it enough. And so I will say now to that person, have you done enough in this role that by reading your resume or by giving a five minute dissertation of what you've done would convince the reader or the listener that you have mastered the role? Because otherwise it's just fill in space. You need to be able to imprint, I have really learned this, I could teach this, I could do this in another industry, this is a portable, I can take it with me. And if you haven't done all of that quite yet, then you probably need to stay in the role.

And then I had a dear friend that taught me this, that when it comes to a new role, take a good look, not just at the title, not just at the money, certainly not just at the money, but where are your values aligned with this role, with this firm, with this future? Where, is it a good match? And I have made the mistake, Melanie, of going into roles that it wasn't, I didn't even contemplate that. I got seduced by the money in the title and I was miserable six weeks in and it was destructive because coming together in a role is like getting married, you're giving it your all, you want your company and your people you lead and work with to give you their all. And then suddenly if you go, ooh, I don't want any of this, akin to what I assume a divorce would be like, just rips it down and nobody was better off for my poor decision making. And it was on me, it was my poor decision making.

Melanie Avalon
For the first part, what you said, asking yourself, have you been in this role long enough to have mastered it, I guess that's assuming that it's a role that you should be in. So, like, if it's more like if it relates to the second thing where this maybe this is not the role that you should be in, then I guess that doesn't apply anymore about mastering it. Like, assuming we don't try to master incorrect fits of things. That's right.

Pattie Dale Tye
But being thoughtful about the whole continuum of what is gonna be involved in that role is really important, and so often we don't take the time to think about, you talked about the first 90 days, and the first 90 days in any role to me is about learning what would make my leader successful. What does she need to do in this quarter, in this month, in this week, and how do I ladder up to that? And if I'm not doing things in my day-to-day that help her succeed, then I've got to have a conversation with her because how do you lead me when what I do doesn't impact you? And rarely do you have to have that kind of conversation, only every now and then is that misaligned, but what it will crystallize for you when you do know that your work ladders up to her, it will show you how to be successful.

You have somebody that you can model, you have an aspirational goal, and that is, wow, that one day my work might be her work, right? The first 90 days, if you can set your true north on what would make your leader and your team successful, I think you're setting yourself up for a lot of career success in those precious first 90 days, which by the way, the other thing I say, and a leader told me this, you need to do something special at the end of your first 90 days. You need to have something tangibly successful.

Melanie Avalon
And what about for people who do not like their leader person?

Pattie Dale Tye
I know, isn't that yucky? Yeah, so I talk about this, I think it's in the networking chapter Melanie, and I talk about Jim Rohn's theory that you are a combination of the five people you spend the most time with. Oh yes, I believe this. And I had one of those leaders that was just not a pleasant leader, kind of mean, screamy, and I had just moved into a new role. I absorbed so much of that leader's personality that I remember walking into my home one night and over here in my husband on the phone saying, I don't know where my sweet Patti Dale went, she's turned into a screamer.

And I had. And so you have to be so careful when you have that bad boss or when you have that leader that is not pleasant. You're going to have to buckle up and get through it because if they're the person that leads you, unless it just is tearing you up every day and every night, you will outlast them. I don't think that toxic people, screamers, mean people, outlast the good ones. I really don't. I've given that advice over and over again. If there's a disconnect in your personality types, you know, a disconnect is one thing, but really a very difficult boss, you will outlast. So if you love the role, if you love your team, just put up with this because it won't be there long.

Melanie Avalon
I was actually literally contemplating this for a good amount of time yesterday. I was contemplating successful people.

And clearly, I think all these traits were talking about kindness, generosity, showing up, being trustworthy, that that leads to success. And I was contemplating, aren't there also a lot of successful people who are just not nice people? And I was like, is it that they just both exist or does the track that we're talking about more likely to prevail? Sounds like you think it's more likely to prevail.

Pattie Dale Tye
I do. I do. And I think there are, you know, imagine being a, you're not this, but imagine being a super introvert in this extroverted world. And I would imagine those, those leaders find it more difficult than you or I would, who can't wait to talk to the people that you work with and find out what they did over the weekend and what's going on with this project, et cetera.

But those super introverts, I would imagine it feels like, you know, you've got tight shoes on all day long. So that might lend itself to part of the, the discomfort or the, they're not as nice. So maybe just try to be generous and giving them their space and understanding how you could help them be successful because they got to leadership role for a reason. And maybe you'll finally watch them relax and realize they can smile at work and they can be friends with the people that they get to lead and change their life forever. Just, you know, try to be full of grace because something's going on that causes them discomfort and it's not causing you discomfort and you're not probably causing them the discomfort. There's something bigger at play. So have grace.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I love that. And that's kind of, that's a section that you talk about in the Mondays as well. Like, you know, grumpy people, you know, we don't know what's going on in their life. So having that, that empathy.

You mentioned confidence. I love that you have a chapter on, you know, how to encourage confidence and so much of it, I mean, a lot of it's mental, but also a lot of it is, you know, like you talk about like body language and stuff, like a bottom up approach, like changing your posture and how you sit and stand and what you wear. And I'm very, very curious. You're such a high achieving woman. And I hate that I've like qualified that way. I am though really curious. Do you think that there still exists a hierarchy, like a patriarchal hierarchy in society? Like when as a as a CEO woman, do you still face tension or bias or outdated standards being a woman doing what you're doing?

Pattie Dale Tye
You know what's so interesting? I love your question, Melanie, and it's a question that I get routinely from young women, younger women, and I always answer it this way, those darn boys. You know, they're there, and they're not going anywhere, and we really don't want them to go anywhere. What we want to do is all be able to sit in the same room and around the same table and have the same equality, right, of voice.

If I come into that meeting prepared and have confidence, I bet I will have that same equality of voice. So they're not going anywhere. I'm going to just be honest. I do not feel, I feel that being an approachable, confident, bright female leader has done nothing but been positive for me. I don't, I might have been discriminated against. If so, I didn't really feel it. It's authentically who I am, so it's all I got. So I'm going to show up the best way I can.

Melanie Avalon
been my experience as well, actually. I found just leaning into who you are, I think, to be the best. I think that helps the most.

Like you're talking about at the very beginning with the colors of the book, like leaning into whatever makes you shine as a human being and, you know, feel like you're living your best life. I find that is what leads to the most abundance for everybody and joy and rather than focusing on, you know, stigmas and stereotypes and like you said about the boys.

Pattie Dale Tye
And you know what, you just, you just exampled living from a place of abundance versus a place of scarcity. And you walk, you know, you walk in knowing all that makes up Melanie, and there is a ton that makes up Melanie. And she has no scarcity in what she brings to the table unless she's not prepared. And I have a feeling you're always prepared.

But people do get caught up in not being prepared and that's all in our control. But if you come from a place of scarcity and think that somebody else is automatically going to be advantaged because they're male or they've got a PhD or they're, you know, blah, blah. Then you're starting from, you know, your back foot. And that's not a really good place to start as opposed to standing firm in your space with your shoulders held back and knowing that you're prepared.

Melanie Avalon
What you got? I love it. I love it so much. Well, thank you Patti.

This has been absolutely Incredible. Was there anything you wanted to specifically touch on that we didn't touch on? There's so much in your book So this is just for listeners This is just a sprinkling of things that you will that you'll learn when you get the book

Pattie Dale Tye
Well, I just am, I'm gonna say I'm so thankful to know you and the sprinkling is so funny because for your listeners, I did get Melanie to tell me about biohacking when we started the call. And so I had strong women in my life. I'm very blessed.

My maternal grandmother was the oldest living practicing chiropractor when she died at 104. And so my mother was always sprinkling something on my cereal or, you know, I started doing wheat germ long before it was cool. So I'm so thankful to know you and I cannot wait to begin following you and learning and being a healthier person just as a result of this. Plus, I love that you put light in the world. We need light in the world and you do.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so much. I was actually thinking about that, reading your book and your history and everything, because I was like, it's really interesting that we both have been in the health sphere in a way, but from different perspectives, like you being at Humana and stuff, you know?

So I was like, I bet it would be interesting to like cross notes on our experience in the quote, health world.

Pattie Dale Tye
Yes. I do intermittent fasting. I just love all that you're into. What window do you do? I stop at nine and don't start between 12 and two.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, how about you? I'm a crazy one.

I just eat at night basically after I'm done with everything and it's very late because I'm a late night person. So, but yeah, I find I just got to get all my work done and then that's like my big meal at the end that I.

Pattie Dale Tye
That's fun, though. That's really nice.

You've done all your bad emails, you've done all your fun texts. You've had your glass of wine, and now you get a big meal. I love that. Well, you look beautiful, so it's working.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you, you too. So this was so, so fun. Thank you so much, Patti.

Where can people get your book, follow everything that you do? Do you do consulting? Or where can people best follow all of your work?

Pattie Dale Tye
Well, I have a website and it's patty, P-A-T-T-I-E, dale, D-A-L-E, ty.com, patty, dale, ty.com. And that gives you everything from a link to buy the book, which is also on Amazon, but hopefully at a local bookstore that you can support.

It will give you a press package because I do, I am a national speaker, would love to come and speak to groups big and large because part of the mission of this book is that it gets people to change their lives for the very, very, very, very great and make them extraordinary. And then I'd love for them to sign up for my newsletter, like I'm gonna sign up for yours, Melanie. Then they can get sort of a glimpse into my world and my coaching if they needed that every single month.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, perfect. So we will put all of that in the show notes. You really captured what you just articulated with your goal with this book. And I'm just so grateful, like I said, saw the title, loved the topic, and then it was just an utter joy that it turned out that it came from the perspective that I so identify with, which is this having people shine and find their why and have kindness and gratitude and generosity. And I just really, really appreciate it.

And to that point, the last question that I ask every single guest on this show, and it's just because I am so obsessed with these topics. So what is something that you're grateful for?

Pattie Dale Tye
I mentioned my 35-year marriage. That is the thing I am most grateful for in health and career. But if I had one thing, it's, I mean, God blessed us with a 35-year marriage. And you know, when you don't have that centering thing called a child, you really do have a different type of marriage, and I'm very thankful for it. So thank you for asking me that.

Can I ask you what are you most grateful for right now?

Melanie Avalon
You know what? I don't think anybody's ever like flipped it back on me.

I'm just great. Well, I am like I said throughout this I am so So so grateful that I get to do what I love as my quote job I just I just am so grateful for that I love I'm grateful that I don't have the Sunday scaries because every day is like Like a weekend in a way. Yeah, I'm just I'm just really really grateful for that

Pattie Dale Tye
That's awesome, and you're giving brightness to the world.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, as are you. Thank you, Patty. You'll have to let me know if you're ever in Atlanta. I would love to meet you. We could get some wine. It would be so fun.

Pattie Dale Tye
Hey, and likewise, if you're ever in Kentucky, you know, we have this little thing called the Derby, so let

Melanie Avalon
Let me know. I will. I actually, since I grew up in Memphis, my friend had a lake house in Kentucky. So we would, I've been to Kentucky a few times.

Pattie Dale Tye
Good, it's a pretty state this time of year especially, but so are y'all.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love the seasons coming. I just I love it so much.

So thank you so so much. You are the best and I would love to have you back on the show in the future for any of your future work. And I just I just really appreciate everything you're doing. So thank you.

Pattie Dale Tye
You got it, and right back at you, and thank you. Have a blessed rest of your day. Yeah, happy Monday.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. For more information and resources, you can check out my book, What, When, Why, as well as my supplement line, Avalon X. Please visit MelanieAvalon.com to learn more about today's guest. And always feel free to contact me at contact at MelanieAvalon.com.

And always remember, you got this.