The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #306 - Maddy Dychtwald

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Maddy Dychtwald
Hormone replacement can really take care of some of the challenges that women face. We really have been misinformed and a lot of confusion was created in the marketplace, even with doctors and even with gynecologists.

Women, we've won the longevity lottery if you look at just the number of years we live. But when it comes to health span and even more importantly, to brain span, there's a gender divide and the women are losing it.

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast where we meet the world's top experts to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and biohack your life? This show is for you. Please keep in mind we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes you may experience from implementing the tactics lying here in.

So friends, are you ready to join me? Let's do this. Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Oh my goodness, friends, it was such an honor to connect with Maddie Dykewald and have her on the show today for her book, Ageless Aging. I really enjoyed this conversation because as you will soon hear, I personally have had my long historical struggle with geroscophobia, i.e. the fear of aging, and Maddie's work is so empowering when it comes to totally reframing your opinion of aging, especially for women. In this episode, we talk about the women longevity paradox and what it means for aging. The concept of ageism is rampant in our society and how to reframe those stereotypes, the role of wisdom as we get older, something I particularly love learning about which is thinking ahead about our financial freedom and investing in our wealth, problems with the misconceptions that arise from the women's health initiative study and the stigma it gave to hormone replacement therapy, of course a fun conversation on wine and health and so much more.

I can't wait to hear what you guys think. These show notes for today's episode will be at melanieavalon.com slash agelessaging. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. There will be two episode giveaways for this episode. One will be in my Facebook group, I have biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life, comment something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pinned post to enter to win something that I love, and then check out my Instagram, find the Friday announcement post, and again comment there to enter to win something that I love. All right, I think that's all the things. Without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation with Maddie Dykwald. Hi friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation I'm about to have. I loved this book so much. Oh my goodness. So I am here today with Maddie Dykwald. She is the author of a new book called Ageless Aging, a woman's guide to increasing health span, brain span, and lifespan. So just by hearing the title, you can hear how it touches on all the things we talk about on this show when it comes to health and wellness and longevity. And what I really, really loved about this book so much is that it dives deep into all of that, specifically for women, really looking at things like the longevity paradox with women living longer than men, yet having more health conditions, and particularly talking to a lot of the things that women in particular struggle with as they get older that men might not experience quite as much.

Melanie Avalon
So it dives, of course, into things like hormones and sleep and exercise and food. And beyond that, it goes into some topics that honestly I have not seen covered in any of the books I've had on this show and the authors when it comes to longevity. And that's concepts like age identity, and our fear of aging, and something that Maddie refers to as ageism that I am dying to talk about. In particular, she has a chapter that I loved on financial freedom and how that relates to aging, which is something that again, like I said, other books I read just haven't really gone there.

And Maddie, I'll just tell you a reason that this whole concept means so much to me is I have been haunted by the concept of aging for literally for as long as I can remember, probably, like since I was 12. I distinctly remember. That's when I started. That's when I started giving myself a timer of aging. It's funny, I even so in the book, for example, you list you give an example of a lot of women who really well known women who did things starting like after their 50s, for example, like I was making that list when I was in my like 20s. And I was like, Okay, here are women who made it in their 30s. So I've always had this, like this timer ticking over me. And so your whole exploration of this fear that we have in society, I am just fascinated by and I found the chapter on it so exciting.

So I'm really excited to dive into everything today. Thank you so much for everything that you do. You also co founded age way, which I would love to hear about, which has done a ton of studies on all of this. So, yes, just thank you for everything that you've done. And I'm so excited to be here with you today.

Maddy Dychtwald
Oh, thank you, Melanie. That was the nicest introduction you could possibly get.

And I'll tell you something, you're not alone. A lot of younger women in particular are very concerned about aging. And, you know, the truth is that our bodies start changing in our mid 30s. So it's not such a bad idea to pay attention.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's funny. So you mentioned in the book, when you speak and everything, you do mention your age, and you ponder how that relates to this whole ageism concept. And I tried to keep my age a secret for so long, especially with my background in acting. I was doing it pretty successfully.

And then I had an article published in CNBC. And right before they published it, the journalist asked if she could put my age in the article because she said women like reading stories of women at certain ages. And so I told her, I was like, well, I was like, I'm trying to keep it a secret. But if you want to, if you really think it'll help the readers, you can put it in there. So I thought she would put it in there like at the end, she literally made it the title, like the title, the title is 32 year old actress like starts a podcast or something. But it got me really reflecting on this whole concept.

I'm dying to hear your story. When this became a thing for you. Why do you think women in particular, why are we so haunted by aging? What role does it play? How do you feel about it? Yeah, just where are you at with all of this?

Maddy Dychtwald
Okay, well, let me try to dive into it. You're mentioning a lot of different points. First of all, let me just say it's not our fault. We are fed this cultural narrative that getting older, especially for women, is bad. That the older you are, the more challenges you have. And in fact, when I first started in this field, 50 was considered over the hill. I mean, if you don't have your life together by then, you're never going to get it together. And that's just not the case anymore.

I mean, we know a lot of people, we have a lot of celebrities who really didn't even come into their own until they were in their 50s or 60s. We have this sphere of aging that's been built into us as part of the cultural narrative. And it's very bad for women because we are really valued for our looks and our ability to bear children. And that sort of tops out in our mid 30s. Although many women are having children much later. I didn't have my second child until I was 40. So I totally get that. But now the cultural norm is that young women are beautiful. They represent everything that is good about being a woman. And you get older and you turn into something else, something that is not valued by society. And who wants to go there?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, it's really crazy. And it's interesting.

One, with the role of children with all of this, what do you think is the role of women not having children as much? Has that changed? Are women now having children less than before?

Maddy Dychtwald
women are making the choice not to have children. Of course, there are many women who want to have children and are not able to because there's so many environmental factors that are beginning to impact our fertility. There's no doubt about that. But on the other hand, there are women, I know quite a number of them that are making the absolute choice. I don't want to have kids. And that's okay.

It's a cultural prerogative that's beginning to be accepted. While in general, though, we usually think of, you know, you go through these life stages, particularly women, and by the time you hit a certain age, if you're not married, and you're not having children, and maybe not even in that order, you're not enough. There is that cultural narrative that I believe is still very prevalent.

Melanie Avalon
Do you know if there is a connection between... I've asked this of a few different guests because I'm really curious by it because if the purpose of our body as a woman evolutionarily is to have a child or spread the species, propagate the species, would not having children be an anti-aging hack because the body is still waiting to have children?

Maddy Dychtwald
That is such an interesting question. I am not a geneticist, so I don't have a good answer for you, but I would guess that it could be.

I mean, just by the fact that your body doesn't go through certain changes that are evolutionary in the way that they appear, I think that it might be. On the other hand, I think that there are certain things that happen to your body as you go through the process of pregnancy and raising children that may impact you as well. I mean, I know that there's research being done right now to extend the number of fertile years that women have, and also to actually put menopause on pause.

Melanie Avalon
Hmm, so just not even not even reaching menopause or what what does that look like?

Maddy Dychtwald
not even reaching menopause or delaying menopause, putting it off so that instead of getting it in your late 40s, early 50s, you might get it in your 70s or 80s.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wow. Okay. So for the question, would you want to live forever? How do you feel about that?

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, I ask that question at almost every keynote speech that I give and I would say that if I ask do you want to live to 100 generally almost all the hands go up but then I say no matter what almost all the hands go down. When you say what?

Melanie Avalon
No matter what.

Maddy Dychtwald
No matter what so in other words if you're if you get cognitive decline or you're suffering from arthritis Terrible pain that's when you the hands go down So not everyone want I would say the short answer is that you know, it's a 50-50 shot Some people want to live forever.

Do you? Yeah

Melanie Avalon
Yes. And I thought, yeah, I thought everybody, I literally thought everybody did. And I wasn't even thinking about it in terms of these illnesses or cognitive decline or, you know, not having your body be a prison rather than a vessel for what you want to do. I was just thinking it as about it as, I just want to do all the things forever and ever. So yeah, it's a really interesting question.

What was your answer?

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, my personal answer is, I don't want to live forever unless I'm in really good health and my brain is functioning well.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. Which your book is very, very helpful for us. That's good.

Maddy Dychtwald
Honestly, it matters a lot to me. I saw my mom go down that rabbit hole of Alzheimer's disease, and I have no desire to go there. I will do everything I can in my power to avoid that reality.

Melanie Avalon
Wow. Yeah. I know when people are personally touched by that, it really is really hard to go through and really brings it home about really working to prevent that.

So another question about this whole ageism concept. So I just love, like I said, nobody's really talking about this, and you provide a lot of reframes for people to think about aging. One thing that I found really interesting was you talked about how one of the key indicators or one of the key things correlated to lifespan was actually a person's perspective of aging, which that's fascinating. So what do you think is happening there? Is it because, like, is it the actual fear itself? Is it that people with certain mindsets do different lifestyle actions? Like, why do you think that connection is there?

Maddy Dychtwald
First, let me put out the research. So there was research done in the middle of the country. It was a long-term research. It asked the question, what's your attitude towards your own aging and the aging of those people around you? And what's the results of that study were very enlightening. They told us that people who had a more positive attitude about their own aging and the aging of those people around them lived about 7 to 10 years longer than those who had a more negative attitude.

So that all by itself is pretty amazing, but dig deeper into it. And what you'll find is that not only did they live longer, have longer lifespans, but their health span or the number of healthy years that they lived was also increased. In fact, cardiovascular disease decreased by up to 40%. That's amazing.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, I really wonder the chicken and the egg effect there, like I wonder if the people who had a negative view of aging and this perspective was because they currently were in a state, not feeling well in their body, you know, like it's hard to know, it's hard to know chicken and the egg there what's happening.

Maddy Dychtwald
I think you're right, but I also think that, you know, this narrative that we're fed since the time we're little, that as you get older, you're going to decline, people manifest it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I could not agree more. One of the specific things I loved in the section on this ageism, which you're referring to as basically having a bias and a prejudice against people because of their age, you encourage people to listen to younger music.

A, I didn't realize that most people stop listening to pop music in their 30s or something. I don't know, it was like somewhere around there, and also all the benefits of the brain of listening to current music. It was fascinating.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, I think that this whole idea of intergenerational connection is a really important piece. And there are a lot of experts out there that are really diving deep into it, to try to figure out like, what does it mean, but having relationships of any sort with a younger generation, and, you know, listening to their music, and it does begin to affect your brain, by the way, but having conversations with younger people, I'm, I'm 75 years old, and one of my closest friends is 40.

Another friend is 85. So I love the idea of intergenerational connections. And, you know, we actually go to concerts together. So it's kind of fun.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love that. And I was thinking about it because a majority of my friends as well are all different ages.

I was thinking how I, in the friendship world, I've never really thought twice about intergenerational friendships. I'm really interested by intergenerational dating. Do you have thoughts on that? Because I know I've always dated older, like always, and not just like a little bit older, like a lot older. And I've wondered why that is. Yeah. Do you have thoughts on intergenerational dating? What do you think that is? I don't know. I've just always been attracted to older. So I tend to date with like a 20-year age gap. That's an age gap. Yeah. So do you have thoughts on that? Does that also?

Maddy Dychtwald
It's so interesting that you say that because my daughter who is 37 and single but she also she dates older guys and you know I'm always asking her why and she finds them very attractive that they're very smart that they really respect her intelligence and her ambition you know and she and she feels like older younger guys sometimes feel a little more competitive with her.

Melanie Avalon
That's that's my same experience, actually. And interestingly, because I don't think I I don't anticipate having kids. I don't I just don't think it's part of my life's journey right now. I mean, I'm always open to things, but currently that's not what I'm planning for.

So with the age gap, with dating, I find the older men. Many of them are either divorced or have had kids. So they're like not looking to have kids. So that that whole question is kind of out of the way. We don't have to deal with that.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, that's very, very smart. Yeah.

Also, I have some friends who are my age, like in their 60s, 70s, very attractive women who are divorced, don't want to get remarried, but they're dating guys who are in their 40s.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. So the reverse of it. Yeah.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, exactly. And you know what they like about it? They feel like young men really, you know, same kind of thing, oddly. They really respect them.

They feel like they're a little more sexually adventurous. They, yeah, they meet their needs and they're not as demanding as older men, which is what, I mean, I don't know if that's true, but that's what I hear. That's anecdotally what they say.

Melanie Avalon
I love this. Okay. This conversation is so amazing. So yay for women not becoming, you know, invisible with age. I think this is...

Maddy Dychtwald
and not being stereotyped based on a particular age. I mean, we have great role models now of what it could mean to be in your 60s, 70s and beyond.

Look at Dolly Parton, I think she's 79, Oprah Winfrey, she's 70. We have, Jane Fonda is 87. I mean, these are powerful, beautiful women.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's incredible. What do you feel about this topic came up on a on a recent podcast I was doing and it was with a plastic surgeon who's kind of in the biohacking sphere, Dr. Cameron chestnut and he was saying he was making the case that like a reason he likes plastic surgery work in this sphere is that a lot of times people will be doing like we'll be doing all this biohacking stuff and we'll be feeling a lot younger on the outside, but sometimes sorry on the inside. It probably goes to the outside as well. Maybe sometimes the outside doesn't quite match up to how we feel on the inside.

So he thinks, you know, using plastic surgery type things can be empowering because it helps you look on the outside more the way you feel on the inside. What do you think about that whole world of cosmetic procedures?

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, well, let me say that the one thing I did not delve into in my book was this area. And the reason I didn't was because it's so controversial.

I mean, people love to hate it, or people love to love it. And I personally think that whatever is going to make you feel good is what you ought to be doing. And whatever it is, in terms of changing or enhancing your physicality, I would just urge people to really do the research in advance to make sure that they're doing something that is actually going to make them look better because we've seen great examples in this world of celebrity of plastic surgery that did not work out so well.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm literally like, just do what makes you happy.

And hopefully people can, you know, keep a sense of reality with everything because I think sometimes people can get a little bit distorted in what they're saying. But still, even if that makes you happy, I mean, like you do you. I love that.

Maddy Dychtwald
I think some people can get a little bit obsessed. And then, of course, there's these trends that take place that are unnatural looking trends. And I don't particularly care for that.

But like what you said, yeah, if you love it, I love you for loving it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's amazing. And also, there's this concept of wisdom as we get older, which you talk about.

And maybe this relates to just all the societal things that you talked about already. But why do you think women are less likely to call themselves wise? And how can we embrace wisdom?

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, interestingly that you pointed out that women are not as willing to embrace the term wisdom, but we know from studies that have been done, and we've done them at age wave, that one of the big changes that takes place as we get older is that we have the capacity to become wiser, no matter if we're a man or a woman. And men are very willing and happy to say, yeah, I'm getting wiser, I'm getting smarter.

I'm more with it what's really important in the world as I get older. Women are a little less likely to pull the string of wisdom. I'm not exactly sure why, but I think that we've been taught to be humble. We've been taught to be a little less self-aggrandizing, and that term wisdom is one that sounds a little self-aggrandizing. But I think we can own it. I think we ought to own it.

Melanie Avalon
I agree. And I love a quote that you had in the book. You said that wisdom is metabolized experience that leads to distilled compassion, which I just think is so, so brilliant.

Maddy Dychtwald
I wish I had said that, but I didn't.

Chip Conley, who is a friend and also a fantastic author, and he has these great academies, midlife MEA academies, midlife elder academies, and one in Taos, New Mexico, one in Cabo area, and where he helps people who are in midlife make the jump to the next phase of life, men and women. And he told me that mostly women are the ones who attend these academies to try to figure out what's next for them in terms of purpose in particular. And, you know, the people who go are amazing people. Anyway, he came up with that line and I just loved it.

Melanie Avalon
And speaking of academies, I did not know that there are retirement communities on some college campuses. I had no idea.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, Stanford being one great example.

Melanie Avalon
You can just live on the college campus.

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, they have buildings that are devoted specifically for that purpose. And they have apartments or condos in many cases. And they're usually quite upscale. And as part of their offerings, they offer classes at the campus. And they can either matriculate the way young people do, or they can take specialized classes. And they're very popular.

And the people who live in these communities are very happy. Continue their learning crusade well into their 70s, 80s, and beyond. And they really take advantage of that connection with the college.

Melanie Avalon
That's so cool. It's so cool. I will say speaking of that as well, living, I don't know if we use the word senior, I don't know, how do you feel about like terminology? Actually, that was a question I had.

So you talk about how, you know, we tend to segregate and put labels on things with age. So how do you feel about calling things like senior games or like senior activities? I don't like it. You don't like it? Okay.

Maddy Dychtwald
I think referring to older adults as older adults is a great languaging piece. If you refer to them as seniors or golden oldies or, you know, silver seniors, I hate all that. It feels very condescending to me.

So, you know, if they're older adults, call them older adults.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, older adults. So you really got me thinking about when I am an older, older adult, the role of you talk about solo agers. So people who don't have like a significant other, although I guess family, well, does family and friends count? Basically, I was thinking about how I don't anticipate, I mean, never say never, but I don't think I want to get married.

So I was thinking about, well, okay, so who will take care of me when I'm like older? Yeah, no, it's a good question. I really like thinking about this, because I'm like, I don't like, do I need to think about this? Will I really actually ever be not with people? Yeah. So what is this role of solo aging people who might not be in marriage relationships, or people who are widowed? Yeah, what do we need to think about there?

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, first of all, there are a lot of solo agers. So it's a big community of people and big enough that the world is starting to pay attention to what are their needs, what are their interests, what's going to happen to them as they live longer and maybe not living better. So there's that. And that's, you know, in a way, that's good news.

Second, how do you define a solo ager? One of the experts that I interviewed for it said, well, yeah, even if someone's married, but they don't have children, they're a solo ager. But certainly, if you're not married or in a relationship with a significant other, that's considered solo aging. So that's the broad definition. Now, as far as having family and friends, you know, I'm sure you have a community that you're very involved with. Maybe some of them live nearby you, maybe some of them don't. But the ones who live nearby you, you guys should be like the emergency contacts for each other. And you should talk about it and be really honest about it. Because anything could happen even in your 30s or your 40s, that you may need that emergency contact. And they ought to know like how to reach you in case of an emergency. What are your vital statistics that if you were, you know, in an accident or something that the hospital might ask about and that you would be identified as that emergency contact. I think it's really important.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's definitely, definitely things to think about. So I so, so appreciated that in the book. But your own personal story, what's your background? What do you do with age wave?

Maddy Dychtwald
OK, well, I've been on this beat of aging, longevity, and retirement for close to 40 years. My husband, Ken, and I started Age Wave back in 1986. And back then, all we wanted to do was get the message out to the world that there was some changes taking place in our population where, for the very first time in history, we were seeing more older people than younger people, and that that was significant, and that the older people were different than the stereotypes. 50 was no longer over the hill. And by the way, back then, 50 was considered over the hill, which was kind of scary. Oh my god, that's pretty young to be over the hill. So we went out and told that story. And through the process, we got these corporate clients who were interested in diving deep into the subject to learn more about their potential customers, frankly. So that's sort of the origin of Age Wave.

And along the way, by the way, we did a lot of research on behalf of some of our clients. And that helped me to create a network of experts, people who were scientists, researchers, physicians, people like Mark Hyman and Andy Weil. And all of what we consider experts at the cutting edge of aging and longevity and even functional medicine became people that we could count on talking to to find out what's the most recent studies? What's the experts saying right here, right now? So that was kind of great, because I was able to take a lot of that information and apply it to my own life. And then I had my own problems, my own health problems. I'm a big exerciser. I started having really bad, bad hip pain, terrible hip pain, to the point that I was taking Advil every single day to the point I would still exercise just as much as ever. But I was limping around. My son turned around and said to me one day, Mom, you look like you're 90 years old. Will you please get yourself to the doctor? And I did. And I found out that I was bone on bone in both my hips and that I had been born with hip dysplasia. And today, they treat young babies when they have hip dysplasia. But back when I was born, they didn't even know what hip dysplasia was. So anyway, I asked the doctors, what should I do? And they told me to get a double hip replacement. And I decided I was going to do that. But the doctor couldn't see me, couldn't take me as a patient for about three months. And I was about to go on vacation. So I asked the doctor, hey, what should I do in the meantime? And he told me to go out and get a cane. And I was like, oh my god, that is not me yet. Maybe when I'm 90, that will be me, but not now. And hopefully not ever. So I did my homework. I reached out to some of the people in my network. And I found out some of the things that I ought to be doing. And for one thing, I was a very healthy eater. But I changed to an anti-inflammatory diet. So I cut out all gluten, dairy, and most sugar. I mean, it's impossible to cut out all sugar. But I cut most of it out. I changed my exercise just a little. I did more Pilates and less cardio. But I still did a lot of exercise. I started meditating.

Maddy Dychtwald
I started using these affirmations that a psychiatrist from Harvard Medical School gave me. And in fact, I gave these affirmations to the people on my team, on my surgical team and nurse team for when I had the surgery.

Anyway, long story short, in six weeks without the surgery, all the pain in my hips went away. And just primarily changing my diet, meditating, and tweaking my exercise a little. My surgery, they told me I'd be in the hospital a week and it would take me a month to be walking without any assistance. Well, I was out of the hospital in a day, literally, and I was walking without any assistance. No canes, no walkers, no anything within three days.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, that's incredible.

Maddy Dychtwald
And I wanted to take this information and pass it on to the world, to women in particular.

Melanie Avalon
And, sorry, you said how long ago was that?

Maddy Dychtwald
That happens, I had the surgery in 2018.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so were you using in addition to the lifestyle changes? Because in the book, one thing I really like about the book is for each pillar that you go through, so diet, exercise, sleep, stress, hormones, you go through, you know, the science behind it, the lifestyle approaches, and then you also have, you know, the newest hacks and like the newest technology.

So we're using stuff like that with your procedure.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, I was. Yeah, I definitely was.

I changed my supplement intake pretty dramatically. It started to include some things that worked really well. And then some, I tried some that didn't work out so well. But, you know, I started experimenting with supplements. I started doing infrared saunas and cryo. I did quite a number of things that at the time, in particular today, I think they're becoming pretty well accepted, but at the time they were very controversial.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember the first time I did cryo. I think it was actually like 2017 or 18 and now I do it like every day and it's, you know, so normal.

But back then it was way more expensive than were there any things that were really big in this sphere that didn't work for you specifically.

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, yeah, I tried using metformin, which as we both know, it's like a really hailed as a longevity drug. And for many people, it is it's actually originally, it's been around forever. And it's been prescribed as a diabetes related drug. And I tried it and my doctor who knew my interest in longevity and healthspan was willing to let me try it, but told me straight out that it had never been tested on women.

And I got really sick from it. It really messed up my whole gut microbiome. And it took a couple of weeks for that to straighten out. But you know, I know other women who've had great success with it. So that was something that didn't work out. So great. I tried osteogenics and I didn't experience the kind of impact that I was hoping from that. I mean, maybe I didn't just stay with it long enough. I'm not really

Melanie Avalon
Is that like Osteostrong? Yeah, it is. John Jaquish, I've had him on the show. I think that's his company, I think. Yeah, for the Metformin, I like Burbereen as an alternative to that more.

Maddy Dychtwald
I love berberine. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It's so amazing.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah and I do and I started using Stenalytics then as well you know I wasn't really even that familiar with them up until that point but I started

Melanie Avalon
using them. Did you ever try rapamycin? No.

Maddy Dychtwald
and I'm kind of glad I did you see the Brian Johnson video of him and the Impact the negative impact that rapid mice in his hand. It's very individual. Let's begin there, but no I have not

Melanie Avalon
But I haven't either and I haven't seen that video. I feel like I've been seeing whispers of headlines of things and haven't actually watched the content so I need to.

Maddy Dychtwald
You should go on YouTube and watch it. It will scare you.

It will make, you know, I mean, find something like rapamycin. I totally understand why people want to go there and try it. You know, it's a drug, it's a very heavy duty drug.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you definitely need to get, I think, the dosage right so that you're not getting the potentially negative immune suppression effects of it.

Maddy Dychtwald
I think that that's really true and not all, you know, very, my doctor who considers herself to be very integrative, she's not having it on rapamycin.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Well, something not as scary and fun. You talk about diet and beverages. And one of my favorite parts of the book is, well, you mentioned that when you cleaned up or went on this anti-inflammatory diet that you still kept red wine in your diet. And you make a comment that something about how nearly all the experts you've talked to enjoy wine, even those who might say otherwise publicly, which does not surprise me.

Yeah. What are your thoughts on wine and alcohol when it comes to aging?

Maddy Dychtwald
The science on it has become more Clear over the last 18 months than it was when I was writing the book. I think that there is strong belief that Wine and alcoholic beverages have negative effects on your health and well-being Period even in small amounts. They're staying now especially for cancer Yeah, and they do kill brain cells, which for me is like a really big deal I don't want to lose any brain cells. I want to build my brain cells.

However, one of the Scientists that I spoke to in France who was an Alzheimer's researcher. She had an interesting perspective about it She said yeah, there's no doubt about it that you know having Even small amounts of alcohol is definitely not healthy for you However, like almost there's so many things that are not healthy for you and being stressed and not having joy in your life It can be equally bad for your health So she personally told me that she has a glass of wine with dinner every night Because that's the french way of doing things And that it brings her so much joy that it compensates For the negative effects that drinking a glass of wine may have

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I definitely I definitely think there's something there and I had the some of the authors behind the the official mind diet book Which is the most studied diet for Alzheimer's and and preventing dementia and cognitive decline and I mean that the mind diet Includes wine like you get you get points wine

Maddy Dychtwald
I know, I know. In the next update they do, that may change.

Melanie Avalon
I'm really wondering like you mentioned it all these studies coming out and how much of it I just I'm curious about how much of it is sensationalization with the media versus actual new findings.

Maddy Dychtwald
That's a really good question to ask. And I think that you do five different studies and you can come up with five different answers.

However, the conclusions on wine and alcohol, especially excessive amounts, I mean, there's no doubt excessive amount, no bueno. But if the question is small amounts, I mean, what kind of an impact does that have? For me, if I go out to dinner and I'm, maybe I shouldn't even be saying this publicly, but I will, I don't care. If I'm going to have a mocktail that's basically a sugar bomb, I'd rather get a little buzz than drink a glass of wine.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, oh, 100%. Oh, I, I am on the same page.

Yeah, like a like a sugary, a drink that's basically sugar water, compared to a fermented out, you know, alcoholic beverage with polyphenols. And I do think the quality is really important. I 100% agree. Yeah, I think that one of the problems is we when we do studies on alcohol and health, we lump it all into one category, we either lump it into alcohol or we lump it all into like wine. But there's a big difference between like a conventional wine in the US, high in sugar, high in alcohol additives, all these other things compared to like a, you know, a dry farmed low alcohol organic wine from France, like very different drink there.

Maddy Dychtwald
100% agree. Yeah, the French wines in particular are supposedly a little less toxins in them.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so French is my go-to for sure. Do you have a favorite? Yes, actually. Well, I love the Loire Valley and I love Cap Francs and Gamais from the Loire. How about you? Do you have a favorite?

Maddy Dychtwald
I actually have been taking a vacation from wines for a while, but I was just in St. Bart's for vacation and I definitely, I was actually going for the bubbles.

Oh, yeah. And I was finding, normally I find that if I drink red wine, it really does interrupt my sleep in the middle of the night, which was the major motivation for me stopping to drink it, but when I drink bubbles, it doesn't have that effect on me.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wow. Okay. We're opposite then because the bubbles are the one thing that do give me a headache. I don't know why that's so interesting.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, that is interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, my hacks for the wine is, I like using those wine wands. I don't know if you've seen them. Do you use one?

Yes. Yeah, so I do that. And then I'm obsessed with z-biotics. I don't know if you've tried it.

Maddy Dychtwald
I don't know what that is. Tell me.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I can introduce you to the founder if you like.

So it's the world's first genetically modified probiotic and they engineered it to create an enzyme that breaks down acetaldehyde in your gut. It's amazing because basically a lot of the negative effects we get from alcohol aren't from processing it in the liver. It's from that residual toxic byproduct in our gut. And so this like breaks that down.

Maddy Dychtwald
Wow, that's incredible. I definitely want to know about this.

Melanie Avalon
And it's so cool. I can connect you to them if you like. It's my new obsession. Fabulous. I'd love it.

So, okay. So going back to the women in longevity, I mentioned this paradox earlier, but we haven't dived into it quite yet, which is, so women do seem to live longer. Women live longer than men, and yet they have a disproportionately longer amount of negative health in their older years compared to men. So what do you think is happening there?

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, well, scientists have been delving into that. The truth is, just as you said it, women, we've won the longevity lottery if you look at just the number of years we live.

But when it comes to health span, and even more importantly, to brain span, there's a gender divide and the women are losing it. And I personally, you know, suggest that maybe some of it has to do with caregiving others that we're so busy in our lives, doing for others, that we sometimes put our own needs last. That's part of it. I think that also the hormonal shifts we go through with menopause, they impact our brain pretty dramatically, as well as our health overall. And if we're not doing something about it, that's a problem. And I think that that really begins a cascade of negative health realities.

Melanie Avalon
You do have a really nice explanatory section on hormone replacement therapy, including bioidentical. So, when the whole women's health initiative thing happened, were you onto it in the beginning that it was, you know, that there were some issues with it, or what has been your evolution of your thoughts on the women's health initiative and how it affected our view of hormone replacement therapy?

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah. Well, you're referring to the study that was done and the results came out around 2002. I will say this. It was a very misguided study in the way it was actually conducted and also in the way it was reported in the media. It specifically said that hormone replacement could actually cause some of the challenges that we know that hormone replacement, in fact, can correct. So that's a problem.

What the study, why it was such a bad study was that they used synthetic hormones and they used estrogen in pill form rather than in a patch form. So the way people are given hormone replacement today is very different than the way it was done in this study. Today, we use bioidentical hormones. We use a hormone patch for the estrogen and we use a bioidentical progesterone.

Now, of course, there are some women who have had breast cancer or ovarian or cancer who should not be taking in progesterone. And there are some things that those women can do also. I mean, there's some other ways of trying to get the results that traditional hormone replacement actually provides you, but you want to do hormone replacement of some sort. Now, again, I'm not a doctor, but I really believe that hormone replacement can really take care of some of the challenges that women face because we really have been misinformed and a lot of confusion was created in the marketplace, even with doctors and even with gynecologists.

Melanie Avalon
provide a lot of helpful information. And I think it also created a lot of fear and misleading information. And like the risks that were reported were relative risks, not absolute risks. So they made it seem like this massive increase in risk when really it was tiny.

Tiny, tiny, tiny. Yeah, very tiny. The study was done in women like you talk about who were over 60 starting hormones for the first time. And we know that the age of when you start matters, so it wasn't the right group that they were really looking at. Yeah, it's interesting. What's really interesting to me about that study and the effects of it is how pervasive the messaging was, especially for something that would seemingly benefit the pharmaceutical world. It's just interesting to me because normally like we're getting pharmaceuticals with all these actual problematic side effects on push on us 24 seven. And and yet this whole thing for women, you would think the pharmaceutical industry would have been more like convincing for it. Yeah, I just find it interesting.

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, I'll tell you, I personally think, and I'm not the only one, that when it comes to women's health, there's just not as much attention put on it as there is for men's health. And women are not just... We're just not studied in the same numbers as men are, and we're just beginning that study. I mean, even with the clinical trials that pharmaceutical companies go through to get their drugs approved, it wasn't until 2016 that the FDA said, you ought to include women. You don't have to, but you ought to. So there's a lot of pervasive prejudice that comes out that women are just not as important when it comes to health as men.

And that attitude and the expectations around it make its way into the doctor's office. And I don't mean that in a negative way to doctors. I know doctors are well-meaning, but many of the doctors who don't prescribe HRT today, they do it because when they were in medical school, this is what they learned about menopause and taking HRT or HT, whichever way you want to relate to it. But the truth is that it can really... Menopause can shrink the size of your brain. It has effects on your bone density, your liver, even your microbiome. It's crazy. Your muscle tone.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's really, really crazy. And I know like women weren't included in studies for so long because they said, they say that, you know, it makes it harder for the study to control because of women's cycle and their hormonal changes. So it's like, okay, so you're just not going to include women and then you're just going to assume that the findings apply to all women. Like it makes no sense.

Maddy Dychtwald
Or apply to all people. I mean, it's crazy to assume that women are just little men No, it's it's just really insane.

Uh, it really it's very It's very emotional because The way that it reached even to this day, I mean somebody that I know very well I was telling her about yeah, you you're going through paraminopause go to a doctor get hormone replacement and this doctor just would not Prescribe it to her. So there really is this like prejudice against it that has come into play since 2002 That's a long time

Melanie Avalon
something I did not know that I thought was really cool in the book, were being a little bit vindicated because apparently, like you talk about our ovaries age very fast. And so by the time we're in our thirties, they're considered geriatric, but they're easy, they're good to study for aging.

So women, they're

Maddy Dychtwald
Give to the longevity community.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's so, so interesting. Wow. Okay. And then, oh, another, this is a little bit of a pivot, but just while we're talking about dismantling myths and such in the sleep section, there's so much in there. And listeners, listeners just get the book because there's so much in here that we can't even, you know, remotely touch on.

But one of my favorite parts of the sleep section was your sleep myths. And you talk about all these different sleep myths. One of them was how it is actually normal to awake during the night. I love this concept. And I was actually looking more into it. And apparently these micro awakenings that we have, like it's completely normal to wake up, like between five to 15, maybe more times per night. And something I learned was that unless you're awake for, like, I don't know, it was like three or four minutes during that microawakening, your brain doesn't even register it as a memory. So we're waking up all the time, we just don't remember it. And I just think that's so empowering, especially for people, people for insomnia, because I think what happens is you wake up, and then you freak out that you woke up, and then you're, and then you stay up. You know, so true. Knowing that it's normal, and you can just, you know, go back to sleep is, I think, very helpful.

And, and I do know sleep issues in particular seem to be, you know, you say in the book yourself, like, is sleep one of the things you struggle with the most with aging?

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, I still struggle with it. I mean i'm going through a good moment with it But I do you know for me it's about stress When I when my mind starts racing when I wake up and you know, I think it's like every 90 minutes you wake up So again, you don't always know you're waking up, but you do Your your sleep is interrupted if my mind is busy with my to-do list at that time Then i'm then i'm dead in the water I mean like I I will have trouble falling back to sleep But lately i've been able to feed myself a different story when I wake up and tell myself that oh It's you know, it's just fine.

I'm going right back to sleep. And in fact, I do

Melanie Avalon
It's a game changer. I used to really struggle with insomnia. And that that was really one of the key things, like knowing, okay, if I wake up, it's normal, and I can go back to sleep. So helpful.

And then the more you do it, then you recondition your brain to do that more. Are you a morning person or a night owl?

Maddy Dychtwald
I'm totally a more, I'm definitely a morning person. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
I am a night owl.

Maddy Dychtwald
Wow, so you stay up late, see you at 10 o'clock, I'm in bed.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I want to be you like there's very little things I would actually change about myself if I could just rewrite my DNA But that's one of them. I I want to be I want to be the morning person

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, you know, I think somebody was telling me recently that there's two kinds of people and he was actually kind of putting down morning people who say, you're up, you're going, you're go, go, go, go, go, and then two o'clock in the afternoon, you like fall apart. Whereas people like you, Melanie, who are more like night owls, you get going slowly but steadily and you build up momentum through the day.

And by the time like 10 o'clock at night comes, you're still doing great.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yep, yep. I'm like I'm that's like my prime time. So that's so funny. I love it.

You gotta work with what you are. Yeah, I could not agree more. And okay, so the chapter I mentioned that we haven't touched on yet that I found so unique was I so appreciated having the the financial chapter in the book, because I think, well, first of all, so how do you define, like, what is the concept of, of wealth and in aging?

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, I think that wealth has gotten a bad rap first of all I think you know we've come to think of wealth as being like bougie people and it's not about that at all I mean the word derives from the welsh uh the word wellay and it means well-being and so this idea of Having financial well-being is one that I really think Resonates especially for women especially as we get older And you've hit on a couple of the reasons why one is solo aging is becoming more and more A reality for many many women and they need to be able to be Uh have financial peace of mind feel financially secure and at the bottom of that I think Melanie is the idea of Having the tools like the languaging if you will, you know Men have talked about bulls and bears and like we got to understand that language of Financing and so for instance, I have a financial advisor and I strongly urge people No matter what their income level to find a finance somebody who can help them better understand their finances Have them in your corner whether it be a professional or a friend or a family member Someone who can help you get stronger and stronger as you get older with your financial well-being I mean that is so important and then there's tools online, which I think are terrific That can teach you the basics learn the basics.

The languaging again is super important And if you work for somebody you have a job somewhere and they have a 401k Be sure you're maxing it out. That's like the first step

Melanie Avalon
The timing of reading this was perfect because it was literally while I was working on my business taxes. And I was like, this is so great.

But yeah, like the financial advisor thing, for example, that was something that I didn't realize just because I think it's so intimidating. And that's something that you can be. And that's something that you mentioned is that women are just so much less likely to invest than men. But I found that getting a financial advisor was relatively so easy. Like once I found somebody I could work with, then I can let them do all the stuff, you know, and I just provide the contributions. But I actually wasn't aware. I realized how much I need to learn reading that chapter because you go through all of these different options. And I was like, wow, I like there's a lot more I could be doing here for sure. So I found it I found it really, really helpful.

Maddy Dychtwald
I'm so glad to hear that. You know, I think one of the people I spoke to is a woman named Lynn Twist. And she introduced me to an idea I had never really heard of before. And she said that there's three mindsets when it comes to money, especially for women. And the first one is scarcity. And she said that this idea of scarcity is something that most of us women, no matter how wealthy or not wealthy we may be, we have in our mind that no matter how much money we have, it's not enough money to take care of us as we live longer. And so that's, you know, that's a reality.

The second one she said was what she called sufficiency. And that's a state of knowing on a very deep level that you've got enough and that ultimately all of your needs and many of your wants are going to be covered. And so that's, that's a great place to be. But the third mindset is one, it's a word that we hear more and more these days. And that's abundance, which means that, yeah, you have sufficiency, but your cup runneth over, if you will, it's what's described as having so much enoughness that it overflows so that you're able to cover all of your needs and to generate genuinely and generously share it with others.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. I really loved that section.

Maddy Dychtwald
It really resonated with me because I know that in my family scarcity was a way of being no matter how much money we had for so long and for me to get out of that mindset took a lot of work.

Melanie Avalon
I as well had that mindset, I think, passed on to me from my mom, not because we had scarcity when I was growing up, but because of her life growing up. It passes on.

And I actually made a conscious decision, it was probably like four years ago or so, I read a book and it was all about an abundance mindset. And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to try this. I was like, I'm just going to have an abundance mindset and I'll just do that until it doesn't work anymore. And I just kept doing it and I realized all the times that I would want to enter into a scarcity mindset and I just have to be like, nope, we're doing an abundance mindset right now. It's been amazing.

Yeah. So I love that you touched on that in the book.

Maddy Dychtwald
I think it's really important for us women because we are the ones more likely to go into the scarcity mindset, especially right now with the way the world is in a little bit of a state of chaos and the stock market is going up and down and sideways. It's a little scary out there, but to be able to get past the scarcity and into abundance, it's really a game changer.

Melanie Avalon
Well, and actually, it's so interesting. So one of my habits with this show is so I like I prep everything for usually like a few months, I have all my notes. And then the night before I, I like to go read all the reviews of the book online to see what people like what's resonating with people and what people are thinking. And so your book has overwhelmingly positive reviews.

One of the themes I saw though, and I was like, Oh, this is like a practical manifestation of what Maddie is talking about. But these people don't even see it because some people were saying that the financial aspect of it that they couldn't afford to engage in that. And I was like, that's literally what she's I was like, I was like, this is literally, you know, these people being in this scarcity mindset, and not seeing it and then thinking that then thinking that content isn't relevant, but it's because they're stuck in the scarcity mindset. So yeah, I thought that it's it's a really powerful mindset shift. It's not enough for people necessarily to just know, you know, know the information, there's a mindset piece to it as well.

Maddy Dychtwald
There's no doubt about it. And thank you for saying that.

I will add, though, that what I really went out of my way to do in the book was to offer a lot of things that are for free. They don't have to cost a penny.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I love that. And one of my favorite parts, I like that at the end of each section, you start with if you do one thing now, like do this. And it's always something very implementable. It's free, actionable, to kind of emphasize it.

One of the sections, the do one thing, was like write it, like have a plan and write it down. And I'm all about the plans and the calendars. So I was like, this is great. But yeah, no, this has been absolutely amazing. I just I can't think you enough for what you're doing to close this gender gap and help people with their, is it geroscophobia? I think the fear of aging. Yeah, pharynatophobia. Yes. So I like I said, I definitely harbored, harbored that. So this has been really, really helpful. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on from the book to share with listeners?

Maddy Dychtwald
No, I just think that, you know, it's really important for people to remember that they're in control, that getting older, it's a little bit like playing dodgeball. I mean, there's going to be a lot of things that come at you that, you know, may have to do with, you know, maybe you're getting arthritis, or maybe you have a financial challenge, or whatever it might be.

It's something that you can take control of, that we have the tools that can allow us to not just live longer, but to live better.

Melanie Avalon
I love that so much. What are you most excited about right now in your life journey?

Maddy Dychtwald
What am I the most? Well, I just finished writing the update to ageless aging. Yeah, I did a chapter that's going to be in the paperback version that comes out in October. Super excited about it.

It's going to be a lot about the gut-brain connection, as well as just a whole bunch of things that I hadn't touched on in detail. I go deep into probiotics, although I don't talk about z-biotics, and I'd love to get that information, and maybe I can still include it. Yeah, I'm excited about that. I'm speaking at a lot of conferences. I'll be at NextMed. I'm not sure when this will be airing, but I think it'll be. I will have already been speaking at NextMed and at Rancho La Puerta, a few different other places. It's been a fun journey, Melanie.

The thing that excites me the most is the fact that I have the ability to influence the way so many women in their 40s, 50s, 60s, even in their 30s, the way their aging journey is going to unfold.

Melanie Avalon
No. Well, you are definitely doing that. Yeah, so congrats on the paperback and the new chapter. So friends, definitely get Ageless Aging, A Woman's Guide to Increasing Health Span, Brainspan, and Lifespan.

Yeah, this has just been so, so wonderful. I'm just so honored to connect with you. And the last question that I ask every single guest on this show, and it's just because I do so appreciate the role of mindset in our lives. So what is something that you're grateful for?

Maddy Dychtwald
I'm grateful for my health and well-being.

You know, I'm 75, and if I were... Chronologic aging doesn't mean all that much to me, but if I were to put a number on how I feel, I feel better than I did when I was in my 40s.

Melanie Avalon
I love that. That's one of the things you talk about in the book about how that should be a like on dating apps or Facebook or things like that.

It's always ask your age, but it doesn't ask what age do you feel like you are.

Maddy Dychtwald
Yeah, exactly. I think it's really important. So I have a lot of gratitude for that.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so much, Maddie. All the gratitude I'm sending back your way.

It's really incredible. I look forward to all of your future work and, yeah, if you're ever in Atlanta, let me know. I would love to meet you.

Maddy Dychtwald
Well, yeah, I'd love it too, Melanie. If you're in the San Francisco Bay Area, let me know. Will do.

Melanie Avalon
enjoy the rest of your day and thank you so so much. Thank you.

Maddy Dychtwald
and thank you. This has been great. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me as a guest, of course.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. For more information and resources, you can check out my book, What Win Wine, as well as my supplement line, Avalon X. Please visit MelanieAvalon.com to learn more about today's guest. And always feel free to contact me at contact at MelanieAvalon.com. And always remember, you got this.