The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #344 - Martin Magurno 

TRANSCRIPT

Martin Magurno
I think roasting creates the quality but the reality is that most of the quality is determined before the roaster ever touches the bean. The growing conditions, harvesting, processing, and storage all have a huge impact.

To have a quality cup of coffee, there are three things that need to be perfect. Quality of the green bean, second is the roasting process, and then third is the actual brewing, what people do at home. Grinding the coffee is so important and I believe that the grinder is probably the most important to the coffee making toolbox.

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast where we meet the world's top experts to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and biohack your life? This show is for you. Please keep in mind we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes you may experience from implementing the tactics of lying here in. So friends, are you ready to join me? Let's do this.

Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Okay friends, my excitement and obsession with this episode is out of this world. This is the all things coffee episode and all the details about my glow coffee launch. Like we talk about in this episode, my knowledge about coffee was really focused on the health benefits and producing the cleanest, most antioxidant rich coffee out there. I don't actually know that much about coffee, like how it's made, how the roasting affects it, what to know about flavors, how to actually appropriately grind it and brew it, how all the different types of beans are grown and the implications of that, the actual differences between commodity versus specialty coffee. This was my opportunity to interview a complete expert on the subject. Yes, that is my production partner and roaster Martin Maguino. I am so overwhelmingly grateful for what he has done in helping us create glow coffee and he is the real deal. Like he knows all the things. If you even remotely are a coffee drinker, I think you will find this episode absolutely fascinating. I personally am changing quite a few of my coffee habits after this interview. You'll also of course learn what makes my glow coffee so special and why it is the ideal fasting coffee. And in theory, it should be launched when this episode comes out. So hopefully get it now at glowcoffeeco.com. If for whatever reason, it's not out because sometimes things are a little bit crazy with production schedules and things you don't anticipate, it will be out soon, although it really should be out. So again, go to glowcoffeeco.com to either hopefully get it now and snag the amazing launch special, which will be limited time. And yes, we might run out. We talk about why that is in today's episode. And if it's not launched, get on the email list. So then you'll get all the details about the launch and the launch special. Again, that is glowcoffeeco.com. I seriously cannot wait to hear you guys think about this coffee. Please let me know. The show notes for today's episode will be at melanieavalon.com slash glow podcast. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. I can't wait to hear what you guys think. Definitely let me know in my Facebook group, I have biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. Comment something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pinned post to enter to win something that I love.

Melanie Avalon
And then check out my Instagram, find the Friday announcement post. And again, comments there to enter to win something that I love. All right. I think that's all the things as a brief reminder, go now to glowcoffeeco.com to learn all about glowcoffee, get on the email list, get the launch special, hopefully buy it now, all the things.

And now without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation with my dear friend and production partner, Martin Marguino. Hi friends, welcome back to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I am so, so incredibly excited about the conversation I am about to have. It is a long time coming and it is about a topic that I know a ton of you guys are passionate about that we've talked about for years and years and years. One of the best ways, depending on your personal constitution, to support your fasting and something where it's really important that you get a high quality version of this and that I am making my own version. So yes, the topic today is all things coffee. I am here actually with the most incredible human being. He is my production partner, roaster, sorcerer extraordinaire when it comes to creating my upcoming coffee line, Martin Maguernot. He is the founder of Lion Rush Coffee and he's here to give you guys the nitty gritty details about what actually goes into coffee production, what goes into finding the beans, roasting the beans, the implications of the health potential of the beans, the role of testing for pesticides and toxins and just everything. And honestly friends, this has been such a fun, fascinating journey. As you guys know, I have a supplement line and an EMF blocking product line. So I had done things before with creating products, never though a food or beverage. And so this has been an entirely new world. Again, as you guys know, because I've been talking about it for so long, coffee is such a wonderful potential tool for people to brighten their day, help with their energy, has a lot of health benefits due to its antioxidants. We're going to talk about that. And at the same time, not all coffee is the same. So much coffee on the market, especially conventional coffee has mold, has potentially toxins in it. It can be roasted in a way that removes some of the antioxidants. So how do you know that you are getting the best coffee for your body? And so that's why I'm creating Glow Coffee. That's why it has been absolutely amazing working with Martin who, which fun fact, by the way, friends, so we, Martin and I have been talking through texts and email for quite a while, but this is our first time talking synchronously with our voices. So this is very, very fun for me. So Martin, thank you so much for all that you do. And thank you so much for being here.

Martin Magurno
Melanie, thank you so, so much. It's an absolute honor to be here.

I'm a huge fan of all of your work. And it has been a pleasure working with you all these past months getting ready for your coffee. And it's such an honor to be here with you today.

Melanie Avalon
Honestly, Martin, you have been a dream partner. So we do have another business partner in this endeavor. And I, it's funny, I just I went in completely blind. And we're working with our other partner who was working with you. And you've just been so amazing.

And because I had very specific ideas about, you know, what I wanted in coffee, which, in addition to the things like being completely clean and sustainable and free of toxins, I really wanted this high antioxidant content, the CJA content and coffee beans. And I like honestly, I had no idea where to start. Like, I don't even know how I would go about finding that. But this is your forte. Like, so not only are you, you know, a coffee roaster, but you source beans. So to start things off, I'm dying to hear a little bit about your personal story. So were you always a coffee lover? How did you get into the coffee business? How long have you been doing it? What led you to doing Lion Rush today? Just what's your personal story?

Martin Magurno
Yeah, so I studied biochemistry at the University of Miami, and my interest in coffee actually started from a performance and a daily use perspective. Coffee is something that most people don't just have occasionally. They have it every single day.

So when I started learning about the industry, I realized that there's a huge range in quality, depending on how coffee is grown, processed, stored, roasted. Basically all that pulled me deeper into roasting, and eventually let me just start my company. But my focus became less about trends and more about building systems around sourcing, traceability, consistency, all with the question in mind. So if someone drinks this every morning for years, would I feel confident about what is in their cup? And that is what led me to start Lion Rush, to make something that I was proud of serving other people, and something that people drink every single day.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Okay, so I have so many questions.

Number one, I'm learning right now, like in real time, a roaster, like the idea of a roaster, are they always usually sourcing the beans as well, or do some people like just roast like how separated and segmented is that industry as far as like the production process?

Martin Magurno
Yeah, so I like to say that most of the quality of the coffee is decided at origin. Most people think roasting creates the quality, but the reality is that most of the quality is determined before the roaster ever touches the bean. The growing conditions, harvesting, processing, and storage all have a huge impact. So the roaster's job is really to preserve and develop. It's already there.

Roasters, they come in all shapes and forms, but sourcing is definitely one of the most important things. I always say that to have a quality cup of coffee, there are three things that need to be perfect. First is the quality of the green bean. Second is the roasting process, where we try to maximize the potential of that green coffee. And then third is the actual brewing, what people do at home. So if any of those three areas is not great, then it's hard to have a good cup of coffee. But roasting is super important, and what we want to do is basically maximize the potential of the coffee that we sourced.

Melanie Avalon
like a big company like Starbucks. So they are the brewer sourcing from a roaster, or are they also the roaster as well? Are they doing like everything?

Martin Magurno
Starbucks, they roast their own coffee. They source, and then they have big contracts, usually, from farms around the world where they source their beans.

With the Starbucks, it's a little bit different. Usually, commodity coffee is produced for volume and price with very little traceability. Specialty coffee, on the other hand, focuses on quality, transparency, and knowing exactly where the coffee comes from and how it was handled throughout the supply chain. You can say that specialty coffee is traceable, and commodity coffee is anonymous.

Melanie Avalon
How many different types of coffee are there? I should feel like I should know more about this. So like the green bean situation and the different types, are they all, for example, I feel silly, but I remember when I learned that like with tea, that it's all like the same thing, like green tea, black tea, like it's all the same plant. My mind was blown.

Before that I always thought like black tea was different than green tea than different types of tea. So with coffee, so I guess the coffee bean is always this green bean situation. How many different types of coffee are there?

Martin Magurno
Yeah, so basically there are two types of plants. So we have Arabica and we have Robusta. Robusta usually yields more coffee around the world. It's more resistant to diseases. And it's usually a bit higher in caffeine content. However, Robusta tends to be of lower quality and doesn't produce very good flavors in the cup. While the Arabica is known for being of better quality, specialty coffee basically comes from the Arabica plant. So those are the two main.

But within the Arabica family, there are hundreds of different varieties and some are from specific places around the world. So some varieties grow better in South America versus in Africa, but they're all under the umbrella of Arabica coffee. And that is what we do. So specialty coffee uses 100% in Arabica.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember when I met our third-party partner in this endeavor, that was the first time talking to somebody who was really, really into coffee tasting. For me, I was like, oh, this is kind of an agilist wine tasting because I'm a really big wine fan.

I get into the varietals and the tasting and the flavors and the aromas and everything like that. I was like, oh, there's a whole coffee world of this too. When you say quality, like higher quality, does that just indicate that the growing conditions that make the flavors better, is it about, what do you mean by quality?

Martin Magurno
Quality is definitely about selection of the right units. So during harvesting, the cherries that are ready for harvest are selected, and then they are processed accordingly. And then there is a processing that happens right after harvest, whether it's a washed coffee or a natural or honey process. Those are different types of ways of processing the coffee after harvest. And all that will dictate the quality at the end of the day and the quality of the cup.

Quality can be measured in a few different ways, but specialty coffee in particular has a set of standards given basically by the Specialty Coffee Association. So anything over 80 points in the SEA, or Specialty Coffee Association, scale is considered a specialty grade coffee. Those are basically the top 5% of coffee around the world.

Melanie Avalon
How many different coffees do you produce at Lion Rush? I know you have your Lion Rush coffee. How many people do you work with? How many coffees do you roast?

Martin Magurno
We try to get coffee from all over the world. We have coffees from Ethiopia, from Yirga Chef specifically. We have Colombian coffees. We have Brazilian coffees. And we also like to bring also microlots.

Usually, microlots are on the higher end of the scoring system, you can call it. Yeah, they all come from different parts of the world. I really like Colombia. It's a country where there are different regions and different microclimates and different varieties of coffee. That makes it very, very interesting. So yeah, we're always sampling and tasting coffee from all over the world, really. So we try to have a large selection of coffees that are very interesting, that have a good story, that are traceable to specific places and that are of high quality.

Melanie Avalon
You're mentioning the cherries of the coffee plant. And we were designing, we've been working on the website for a while now, but we were working with some different designers in the beginning. And again, just to show my naivete when it comes to coffee, I didn't even realize what the original coffee plant looked like, and it looks like Christmas. So there were all these pictures of the coffee plant, and I was like, why are there Christmas plants on the site? And then I was like, oh, that's the coffee plant. Okay, learning so much here.

Okay, I'm really curious. You're talking about working with all these different coffees from all over the world. So again, going back to what I know better, which is wine. So with wine, for example, if I hear a varietal of a wine and where it's from, I can anticipate what it will taste like as far as the body and the flavor profile. And I could maybe blind test and guess what the wine is. So with coffee beans, is it similar where when you hear this bean from this elevation or from this country, you can kind of anticipate what it's going to taste like in the cup, or is that not really predictable?

Martin Magurno
Definitely, with certain kinds, definitely treats a lot of flavor notes that we can feel. With coffee, processing also plays a very big role. So when I was talking about wash coffees or natural coffees, those are, those are different. So in wash coffees, for example, the cherry, the whole fruit and pulp and the skins, everything is washed right after harvest. And the seed or the bean is left to dry on its own. And that usually gives a cleaner cup, probably better coffee notes.

On the other hand, natural coffees are left with the whole pulp to dry under the sun or in dryers. And that fruit ferments the bean further, then usually gives more of fruity notes and higher body to the coffee. And then there is what the industry describes now as honey processed coffee, which is basically the best of both worlds. It's sort of in between of wash and natural. And that is when part of the mucilage of the coffee remains attached to the bean, and then is left to dry. So that is what gives a lot of the different notes to day. So it is a balance between the variety, the processing method, and then how the roast was done, or the roast profile that was created, you know, based on that coffee. So it's a combination of different things.

Melanie Avalon
with other things, like with produce and even with things like wine, there's the potential benefit with organic farming because the plants aren't exposed to these pesticides which are taking care of the pesticide problem. So like when they're in the organic form, it can boost the natural polyphenols and those are often the protective compounds in the plant that help it become resistant to pesticides.

So when plants are grown in their natural conditions, they can be higher in these polyphenols and things like that, which can then carry over and affect the flavor. And I'm wondering, do you know when it comes to the coffee bean, if it's raised conventionally with pesticides versus organic, does that have an effect on the polyphenol content and or the flavor experience of the coffee?

Martin Magurno
Organic coffee means that the beans are grown without synthetic pesticides and herbicides and chemical fertilizers, as you mentioned. And at the end of the day, it's hard to say whether the organic practice would yield specific flavor notes, for example.

Usually, flavor is not really correlated with organic practice. But I do agree in the sense that it gives the opportunity for the plant to develop better. So in theory, we should have better compounds and a better plant than a healthier plant if it was raised with organic farming practices. So I would say so. I think it has definitely the potential to be a healthy product.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. I have another question there about our sourcing for... Have I even mentioned the name it? Glow coffee? I don't think I have.

Before that, just while we're talking about flavor still, with the roasting process itself, the interplay for the ultimate flavor that manifests in a cup of coffee, how much of that, when you get your source bean, how much of that flavor and experience is affected by a light, a medium, a darker roast compared to the actual source bean creating the flavor. So what happens with the roasting as far as flavor is concerned?

Martin Magurno
Definitely. So dark roast tastes like roast, and medium roast tastes like coffee, basically. So roasting is controlled heat that develops the natural sugars and automatics that are already inside of the bean. So small changes in temperature, order timing, even seconds can significantly affect the result. So most roasts take about 10 to 14 minutes, and we monitor the temperature development, the physical changes in the bean. But ultimately, the cupping and the taste is the driving factor of why we roast a profile a certain way.

So there is definitely a development process that takes place for each coffee that we get. Being an agro product, so each coffee is different. It has different density, even more show content, there are different sizes. So we really have to take it case by case and develop each roast independently. Usually we try to roast in a way where we maximize the sweetness, the inherent sweetness of each coffee and try to get a balanced cup, where we don't have too much acidity, usually very light roast are high in acidity. And darker roast, on the other hand, we break down all of the acids and even the sugars, and we get bitter flavors or bitter compounds. So it's really about balancing each coffee that we get.

Melanie Avalon
Gotcha. So okay. So it's very individual.

So some people identify as liking lighter or liking medium or liking darker. And it sounds like there's going to be certain beans that are better for them rather than just any bean being like a medium roast, making it into a medium roast.

Martin Magurno
Right, right. So when it comes to developing roles, I mean, it's very important also to know the attitude of the coffee, where it was, it was grown. So then we make decisions based on that, usually, higher altitude coffees are denser, they develop slower, they're more complex. So we usually try to maximize the good characteristics of that origin.

And we try to to roast in a way where we get a lot of the flavor notes starting hearing from that coffee. So if we roast those coffees too dark, we tend to mask the good flavors, or the good notes. But if it's very, very light, then it might be unpleasant for some people in terms of very high acidity, especially for things like espresso, for example. So that is why people usually consume medium to dark roast for espresso drinks, since the extraction happens under a lot of pressure. And we can feel more of those compounds. So is really case by case.

Melanie Avalon
How long does the roasting time take? It takes.

Martin Magurno
10 to 14 minutes depending on the profile.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. I don't know what I would have guessed, like, I literally had no idea.

Like, I didn't know if it was like, I think I would have thought it was like an all day thing. It's much faster than I thought.

Martin Magurno
It's pretty fast. It's basically a cooking process, right? Very much like baking or caramelizing onions, let's say, right? So we see a color change. So from green to yellow, to yellow, to brown. And yeah, there are hundreds and probably thousands of reactions that take place in the roasting profile, the roasting process. So it's very, very interesting.

Melanie Avalon
And again, before going into how we did our sourcing for Glow, when I asked for questions about coffee, so many questions about mold, people were very, very concerned about mold. Where all along the chain is that a problem? Is it from the source bean? Is it during the roasting? Is it after with packaging? Is it between, once the consumer gets it? I'll just read some of the questions and then maybe you can just talk about mold in general.

So, Terri said, definitely questions about mold. And Karen said, curious about mold and coffee beans. How common is it? How to avoid it? How it impacts the coffee? And then Amy said, what are effects and symptoms you can expect if you ingest coffee mold? What kind of mold is it anyways? So yeah, people really want to know what is up with mold and coffee.

Martin Magurno
Yeah, those are very, very good questions and important ones. Mold and mycotoxins, they can happen basically along the supply chain. But it's very important how we store the coffee and how we process the coffee. So right after harvest, that's where the process starts. And each and every single day, the producers, they have to be very on top of the fermentation process, the drying process, in order to avoid these things. And after drying, how the coffee is stored and packaged and then sent to us all over the world, that will really influence, at the end of the day, the health aspect of coffee.

So it's really all along the supply chain. When it comes to specialty coffee, it's very rare to see mold happen, but it's possible, still possible. So that is why we test and we send it to the lab to test for things like mold and mycotoxins and even pesticides and heavy metals, et cetera. Because it's good to check and to be certain, right? Then we don't have any of those nasty compounds inside that can really, they can really appear anywhere in the supply chain.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that was definitely a really exciting moment for me after we found the beans that we were most likely going with and then, you know, did that initial test of all the pesticides and mycotoxins and everything. And I was like, this better come back really clean.

And you know, and it did, it was non-detectable for all the levels. Terry actually also wanted to know how reliable our third-party testers. So when it comes to testing, are there just certified labs and then it's reliable or how does that work?

Martin Magurno
Definitely, these labs, they're very serious. They have, obviously, lots of quality control, and that is what they do. So they can detect very, very low doses of any of this. So I found them to be extremely reliable.

What you get, so you send a sample of a coffee, and that is what we do every time that we get a new batch of green coffee. And we send it to the lab, and they do all of the analysis. And then they send out a certificate of analysis. That's what it's called. And testing is really about verification. So coffee is an agricultural product, so there is natural variability, as we said before, depending on how it's grown and processed and stored. So sending to the lab is very important. So instead of relying on assumptions, testing allows to confirm that the coffee meets the standards for cleanliness and quality of respect.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I think people are so interested in it because that's been a lot of the big messaging around the clean coffee movement is finding this mold-free coffee. And for example, Amy was asking about the symptoms that you can experience. And just from what I've researched and experienced, people might be having conventional coffee or commodity coffee and feeling jittery or not the best with it. And it could in part be mold in the coffee.

I was brainstorming about what type of coffee did I wanna create for myself and my audience. I knew obviously that I really wanted it to be clean and with organic beans. And we just talked about tested for pesticides and mold. And that was all the things that I don't want in the coffee. And then for what I do want, I was so fascinated by this chlorogenic acid CGA content because people, I think people are pretty much, they know that coffee can be a functional quote health food. Like there's so many benefits that we see with coffee consumption. Even some studies will show benefits even at higher levels. So unlike alcohol, for example, cause I'm also a wine fan, but unlike alcohol where it's minimal to moderate, wine seems to be beneficial for health, coffee seems to be a wider spectrum, really great for the brain and cardiovascular health and all the things. And so why is that? So a lot of that has to do with the antioxidants in the coffee and there's different antioxidants in coffee, but CGA is one of the primary ones. And thankfully you can actually test CGA levels in beans. So I was excited to try to find beans that were very high in the CGA content, which is something that not many coffee lines out there are looking for specifically, but it was definitely, well, I'll ask you about the challenge because from my perspective, the challenge was finding beans that were high in this content. So first of all, I'm curious, what from like origin would make that more likely that it's higher, but then it also needed to be, like I said, like organically grown beans. And so I know like a lot of the higher elevation beans, which I think would have led to a higher CGA content and what they weren't necessarily like from organic farms and such. So when we gave you what we were looking for here and then also like that, so I'm coming from like the health perspective. I'm like, this is what I want health-wise, but then my business partner, he's all about like the flavor and everything. So we're like, okay, Martin, like can you help us find beans that fit everything we want, which is high CGA content, organic beans and then organic farm, and then tastes delicious as well. So what was it like taking on that challenge and helping us find the beans, which by the way are amazing. So thank you.

Martin Magurno
This is why I love this project so much, because the attention to detail was through the roof. And we had to make all these things happen. And the standards from you were very, very high. We had to look everywhere and put everything together. And it was very, very exciting and a huge adventure for us, for sure.

So to answer your question about chlorogen acidite, higher elevation coffees tend to have higher levels because the coffee grows more slowly, which allows the beans to develop more density and chemical complexity. And that is one of the reasons we selected high altitude coffee from this region in Colombia. The challenge, as you said, was one, to select the coffee. But we also had to make sure that it was a reliable source of coffee that will be available all the time so we can have a good consistency, of course, and that it also was grown organically and that it tasted good or really good. So definitely a challenge. But at the end of the day, the main thing was to test, lab test the coffee. We sent to the lab several coffees. Some of them we thought that they will be higher in content than they were. So that was actually very interesting to see. So sometimes we have assumptions that a certain coffee would be this high versus another one. But at the end of the day, any testing is so important because we want to make sure that that is actually the case that we have, in this case, the high content of chlorogenic acid. And that is one of the reasons we selected this coffee. So from all of the coffee that we tested, this was the highest. But it also was one that was organic certified. And that is available, right? And that we have a good supply for it throughout the year. So basically, that is why we selected this coffee and we presented it to you. Yeah, the testing was very interesting. It was my first time sending a lab test for chlorogenic acid. So definitely a learning opportunity there. And now we know where we stand in that content. And also, I wanted to mention testing at the end of the day is the ultimate way of knowing what you got in your cup. Because something is organic certified, of course, is good, is another level of control. But at the end of the day, many more things can happen in between these audits and controls. So definitely the lab gives us a much more sincere and honest review of the coffee. So testing for chlorogenic acid is obviously very important. And then for all of the other tests that is performed for this coffee gives us the ultimate knowledge that this is the best that we can offer.

Melanie Avalon
So you can't see me right now. I'm literally, and again, this is partly why I call it the name glow, but I'm glowing right now. I'm just smiling so much because I could not be more obsessed or happier with the coffee that you found, the beans that you found. Okay, so to be completely, completely honestly transparent, I'm so neurotic about the health benefits of what I put in my body that for me, the most important thing was the organic, the clean, the high CGA. And then I was like, as long as it tastes decent, I'll be happy.

So some people come first from the flavor perspective, others from the health. So for me, it was all about the health. So it was just the icing on the cake that this coffee tastes amazing. I've done so many blind taste tests with friends and people just love it. And I have so many stories and my production partner has stories too of just not even telling people and having it around and people commenting on where is this coffee? Where did I get this coffee from? It's so, so good. It smells amazing. It's turning me into a coffee flavor lover. And then on top of that, so that was amazing. So I was going to be happy with organic certification. And then when I learned about the farm that this comes from, the Alliance that it comes from, which is called Fudam. Is that how they pronounce it? Fudam, F-U-D-A-M. Yes. It's incredible. So it's sustainable, women led. I was watching, they have all these incredible videos about their production process and how they work with the environment and how they prioritize working with women and supporting their financial situations and all of the care that goes into the beans. It's a Rainforest Alliance coffee. Literally, that would have been a lot if I was like, oh, by the way, I also want a female run sustainable coffee as well. I didn't even ask for that. And that's what it ended up being. So I'm just like over the moon about this coffee. Wait, so first of all, have you worked with them at all before Fudam?

Martin Magurno
Yeah, definitely. So Fudam is actually is correct. Fudam is a sourcing partner. They focus on traceability, direct relationship with producers. And what we value about working with them is the consistency and transparency they provide.

We know exactly where the coffee comes from, how it was processed and how it was handled along the way. So definitely they make it very easy in their record and they have always been the best to work with. So yeah, Fudam is amazing.

Melanie Avalon
I'm obsessed. I remember when you sent me the video about them and I didn't know what to expect and I was like, oh my gosh, I was like, this is the perfect. I'm so happy right now.

If listeners go to glowcoffeeco.com, assuming that the website is up and it's not the landing page just for the email list right now, but once the actual website is up, we do have pictures there where you can see some of the women in this alliance and like the coffee growing and everything. So definitely, definitely check that out. So you spoke about the sourcing importance for the CJ content and the importance of that elevation so that the beans growing slower, developing that chlorogenic acid. So that's like the source is one part of it as far as getting really high antioxidant coffee, but then the roasting is also a part of that. So how does the roasting come into play, especially since you were saying earlier that with each coffee bean source, it's important to tailor the roast to the bean. So when you got these beans, our glow beans, I was, you know, you're saying we still want to preserve, we want the best of the best worlds as far as like flavor and also preserving chlorogenic acid. So how did you approach that?

Martin Magurno
created different roasting profiles for this coffee all the way to a dark roast. And we send that to the lab. When the results came back, we saw a trend that the longer and the higher the end temperature of the coffee, the lower the chlorogenic acid content was. So that is why we decided on this roasting profile that is more on the light to medium roast.

And this is basically the peak of the chlorogenic acid for this particular coffee, while also balancing the flavor notes and the overall body and texture of this coffee. So we did a lot of trial and error, you can call it. And yeah, we actually evaluated that by lab testing. So that was the initial goal to get a balance between flavor and health benefits. Because we want this to taste good so people choose this coffee versus going with an healthier alternatives. So definitely had to taste amazing. So people choose it for every single day across different brewing methods. And there is no need to mask it really with anything, right? There's no need to put creamers or sugars and anything really because it tastes great. Of course, there's nothing wrong if people wanna put some cream or whatever like inside, but you don't have to, that was the goal.

Melanie Avalon
No, and I'm so glad you mentioned that because that was something else I was excited about because when it comes to especially like fasting and intermittent fasting, you know, we get questions all the time about what is this? So in the fasting world, there's just the idea of the clean fast, which is basically you only drink water, coffee, tea, unsweetened, you know, no creamer, no sugar, nothing like that during the fast. And so like you were saying, glow coffee is so wonderful because it takes, you know, as it is, it doesn't need, you don't need to like add in all this other stuff to, you know, make it taste better. It really can just stand on its own. So it pairs really, really well with, with intermittent fasting.

And yeah, that was definitely, we definitely went back and forth a bit with the, the roast because you know, it's like, how do you make the most, most approachable coffee for the most amount of people with the flavor and still, you know, really get to maximize the chlorogenic acid? Cause I guess presumably we would do like, if we wanted the highest, highest chlorogenic acid, but maybe sacrifice a little bit on flavor and approachability, we could do like a very, very light roast, but we found with like, you know, testing all the different roasts that we still get maximum, you know, very high levels of CGA doing more of like a light to medium. Yeah. I just, I just love how it manifests. How would you describe the flavor profile of glow coffee?

Martin Magurno
Yeah, so it's definitely clean, smooth, balanced. It has a gentle brightness with light citrus notes, I would say. And definitely a natural caramel sweetness, soft, rounded body. So it's a great coffee to drink every single day.

It goes well pretty much in any brewing method. And that was the goal. People can prepare it at home with a food over, a drink coffee maker, a fridge press, an air press, an espresso machine, a mocha pot. It really goes well with anything. It's a super versatile coffee. And that was another of the things that we had to be careful about, right? So yeah, super light roast. Usually, you know, they are more restricted in the way that we can brew them. So definitely we wanted to develop a very balanced coffee that is good across the board.

Melanie Avalon
And actually to that point, we are doing a whole bean and for me it's really important to do a whole bean because they think they're, and maybe you can comment on this, I'm under the impression that when you're selling ground beans that there's more potential for mold contamination at some point post grinding. And then also preserving the antioxidants longer, I would assume would be better in a whole bean form rather than degrading by grinding. For those reasons that I just mentioned, well originally it was just like for the mold reason I wasn't thinking about the antioxidants, but for the longest time I've been doing whole bean only for me personally. So probably for a decade at least.

So for me it's super, super approachable to do whole bean. Like once you get a coffee grinder like on Amazon or something, like it is not difficult. It's like one extra step. It's really, really not difficult. And I think you get a much healthier and a better tasting cup of coffee from it. And that said, some people might see that it's whole bean and think, oh, I, you know, they're going to want ground coffee. What is your advice or guidance for people who might be intimidated by grinding their coffee at home?

Martin Magurno
Yeah, grinding the coffee is so important. And I believe that the grinder is probably the most important tool in the coffee making toolbox. Grinding coffee is not only about freshness and you know, automatics, and it's also about controlling the the recipe and much of the the way that we brew the coffee, right? It really depends on the gear that we're using. And each way of brewing coffee really needs a different grind size right at the end of the day, to make it optimal. So the grinder is really important.

Of course, in a pinch, some people choose to to go with with ground coffee. But it says it's such a great investment, in terms of the health aspect, the quality aspect, the taste and the overall experience, you know, making coffee, you can make coffee in so many different ways and play around with the recipes. So depending on how we grind the coffee, we will vary how that coffee is extracted right in the in the cup, the liquid coffee is extracted in the cup. So I agree whole whole bean is is really the way and I believe that the whole industry is really going in that direction. Very few people now order coffee that is already ground. Yeah, once you once you get a grinder, it's yeah, you don't go back to to buying ground coffee for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, now this is amazing and now I'm realizing maybe I need to up my grinding game. Okay, so, because I approach it very casually.

I'm like, I got my grinder, I grind it. I kinda like just, I don't know, I grind it until it looks like it's powdery enough. So should I be, how should I be grinding it specifically for glow coffee?

Martin Magurno
Yeah, the goal. So ideally, we want to use a burr grinder instead of a blade or a blade grinder.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, wait, wait. Okay, what's the difference? I'm learning so much.

Martin Magurno
Birds are basically what you see inside of the, you know, the black pepper grinder, right? There are two different type of basically gears that rotate and that will give you a much more consistent grind size that is so important for good extraction. Blade grinders tend to produce uneven grounds. So some are larger, some are smaller, it's way harder to prove coffee that way. You will get, you know, over extraction, but at the same time under extraction, so you're going to get some bitter and acidic compounds all together.

So bird grinders give you much more consistency. And there are all sort of grinders. There are manual grinders. And of course, there are electric grinders. Yeah, it is a little bit of an investment, but there are now really good options for under $200, maybe 150 or so for electric grinders are really good and solid that will last you a lifetime basically, and it makes such a big difference.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa. Okay. You are blowing my mind. I had no idea.

Okay. So I was using a blade grinder. I'm like briefly like looking through Amazon and yeah, it looks like there's a lot. I mean, there's a wide range of prices, everything from like 39.99 up to like 200. Now I'm brainstorming. I'm going to have to in the future make my own bird grinder. Oh my goodness. Okay. Don't get, don't tempt me with like entrepreneurial ideas. Okay. So I'm going to make that change. I'll be really curious if I noticed the difference. And as far as like the grind size itself, how does the grind, is that even the right terminology? Like the grind, like how much it's ground, how does that affect the ultimate flavor and how would you recommend like what approach would you take for a glow?

Martin Magurno
You're right. It's called the grind size. And it really depends on the method of brewing that you're doing. So for a drip coffee or a pullover, anything that you do with a with a paper filter, a medium grind is is the best. And that would allow you for for a clean extraction. And usually when you use an espresso maker, or a mocha pot, for example, you would go finer. So you can think of it as the resistance that that you need to get a good extraction. So in the case of espresso, for example, you're extracting under a lot of pressure. If you were to have a very coarse grind size, the coffee will flow very fast. There will be very little resistance inside of the portal filter. So the extraction by being so fast is very low. And usually that will lead to very acidic coffee or sour coffee, I would say, and with no body or crema.

Now if you use the proper size, use a fine grind. And also I should say it really depends on the coffee. So basically, you fine tune the grind size for each coffee that you get. But overall, right with espresso, you're on the on the fine spectrum. And then when you get a coffee, you fine tune it, you know, a couple of points. But when you have the right size for for the espresso, for example, then the extraction will be on point, you will get a lot of body and crema and a balance cup. And if we go too, too fine, right, like the coffee takes very long to come out, let's say it takes about a minute, right, instead of 30 seconds, you probably will have over extraction. And that's how we call it. We strike too much from the coffee, since we have more surface area, the coffee is so fine, that we start to extract the bitter compounds and and all the flavors, flavors that we don't really want. And we get a harsh cup of coffee. So that is why grind size is so, so important. So we talked about the fine grind for espresso, we talked a little bit about the medium grind size for drip coffee. And then you have course, so course grind, then you usually call it through methods, they usually use coarser ground since you steep them for for long. It's definitely a learning curve there that is really not that scary as it sounds. There is a lot of playing around with it to find the right grind size and recipe that they will like, but those are overall the the let's say the three main grind sizes, fine, medium and coarse.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, I just learned so much.

Um, I, yes, I prefer cold brew for mine and I realized I've been doing, well, I've been doing a blade and then I've been, I probably doing a fine grind because I was making the incorrect assumption that I've got to grind it more to, I don't know, I don't know, I just thought, I honestly didn't think about it like very scientifically. I was like, it's how it makes more sense to like grind it more because that'll get more of everything into the coffee. But now I'm learning, okay, burr grinder, coarser grinds with my cold brew.

Martin Magurno
about. Yeah, the good thing about cold brew is that it's also you know, forgiving. Since you since you're extracting the coffee with cold water is usually you know, that the result is usually milder, you have less bitterness. So yeah, it's a little bit more forgiving, even if the grind science is not optimized, let's say, but definitely a good idea to play into notice the the grind size for sure.

Melanie Avalon
I love the cold brew method because, and this is ironic because people might wonder how much coffee I actually drink daily. And so I've had my history of different amounts of coffee. So I didn't even start drinking coffee until college. And then in college, oh gosh, in college I drink all the coffee, like, you know, Venti, Starbucks, like, you know, especially when you're like studying for exams. And I have no idea how I did any of that.

And then I got a little bit scared of coffee because I was like drinking the conventional coffee. I was convinced that it was giving me insomnia. Again, but I was drinking massive amounts. So then I stopped drinking it completely for a year to see like how I would feel. And then I brought it back. And so I don't drink a ton. Like I'm a slow friends, listeners, you can look up how you genetically process caffeine. And so I'm a slow metabolizer with caffeine. So if I have a little bit, it stays with me basically. You too. You are too? Oh, really? Yeah, so how much I was going to say this for rapid fire questions at the end, but how much coffee do you normally drink each day?

Martin Magurno
Well, it depends because I'm always, you know, kept in coffee and tasting, but I usually have a cup of coffee as, you know, early in the morning before the workout. I try not to do it immediately after I wake up, but maybe within an hour or so of waking up. And then I will have a second coffee around noon. I try my best not to drink coffee after 2 p.m. So, you know, it doesn't affect sleep that much. But yeah, you know, at the very least, I would drink three cups of coffee a day, but sometimes it's way more than that.

Melanie Avalon
Now I'm brainstorming again. Now I'm thinking like in the future, I'm going to have to like partner with some, you know, genetic testing company and maybe get, maybe I can like get a deal where they'll, they'll just test that. And then I could like offer that on the website. Okay. I'm like, I'm in brainstorm mode, full stop shop for everything.

Like you'll get your coffee, you'll get your grinder, you'll get your genetic testing. Okay. So what was I saying? Oh yeah. So basically I do cold brew and I will brew, I don't know if this is good or not, but I will brew enough at once for me to last like a, like a week. And I'll actually just like sip on it throughout the week and have like a little bit in the morning. It is, it's very convenient. When I grind it and brew it, I just, I just do that. Yeah. Like at night, once a week, and then I like have it to go. And then this is actually on the bag, but for listeners, friends, I don't know why nobody else does this because it's been a game changer for me. I've been doing it for a decade ish as well, which is that I used to see that there'd be all these cosmetic products or like skincare products with like coffee in them or caffeine in them. And I was like, I'm just going to splash coffee on my face because what will that do? And I actually find it to be so refreshing. So I kind of use it like a toner for listeners. So basically I, when I wash my face in the morning and then I, I literally splash glow coffee all over my face. No, it does not make you smell like coffee. It smells nice, but you don't smell like coffee. No, it doesn't turn your skin like dark, but I find that it really like wakes me up and, you know, gives me a little boost and I, I experienced a glow from it. So.

Martin Magurno
Julia with the cold room

Melanie Avalon
With the cold brew yeah so i have some i like some sips of cold brew and then i splash on my face and then i actually throughout the day could i do a sauna session every day so i'll take like a shower after that and then i splash again on my face i like i find that really tightens my skin too.

Martin Magurno
I never tried it, but now I'm now now I'm curious.

Melanie Avalon
You got to try it. It's so I love it. I think it's like the most natural, wonderful, like thing that I've integrated into my skincare. And again, been doing it for like a decade.

Yeah, and glow is glow is gray for it. So okay, I had, okay, well, I have like a lot of some fun, like rapid fire questions for you. Before that, was there anything else you wanted to draw attention to with just the coffee creation process, things you've learned, things that you would like listeners to know about about what you do?

Martin Magurno
As I said, this was such a fun, challenging, and amazing project to be part of. And I think listeners should look into all the details of the products that they consume. And coffee should be no different than that. So when it comes to traceability and quality and overall understanding, what is it that they are consuming, I think that is very important. And that transparency is key.

And this glow coffee, your coffee, is definitely the best representation of transparency. And I would encourage everybody to really look into all of it, right, and all of the details and all of the testing. And there is a lot out there, and there are a lot of marketing claims all the time. But at the end of the day, people can rely on an actual lab testing and see that for themselves. On top of that, with coffee specifically, it's also very important in the roast dates. When the coffee was roasted, you want, this is the end of the day, right? It's a full product, and you want it to be as fresh as possible. So definitely something also very important to take a note every time that you grab a bag of coffee. But it was roasted recently, not years ago. So that is what I would suggest.

Melanie Avalon
I'm so glad you brought up all of that, especially with the second point about the rose date. So another reason you've been just a complete dream partner and so amazing to work with is that is so important, like you're saying.

And it's definitely, so again, we haven't launched the product yet as of this recording. And so we don't, like, there's a lot of like unknowns as far as like, what is the order quantity going to be at the beginning and like, how rapidly will it scale up? And it's just like a lot of unknowns. And so you've been so wonderful in that and working with us on like the number of bags that we can roast at a time so that we can make sure that we're, you know, having those fresher roast dates with all of the orders that we put out. So I don't, I do not take that for granted. Like you've been really, really wonderful working with us for that. Thank you.

Martin Magurno
Now it's been my pleasure, complete honor to work with you on this. This is an absolutely amazing project to be part of.

Melanie Avalon
It is so fun. I'm just having the time of my life and I can't wait to get it out there. So okay, some rapid fire questions. But again, just in case listeners missed the link, go to glowcoffeeco.com. And again, hopefully we're trying to schedule this around the launch date. So it should be, it's either going to be up and ready to buy and there'll be like an amazing launch special that you'll want to grab and or it will be about to launch. So you'll be able to put your email into that email list and get the updates about the launch special, which again, the launch special, we're going to mark it down and it's going to be a limited time. So definitely like stock up during the launch special for sure. And again, like I said, because we don't know exactly what the orders are going to be, there is the possibility of it temporarily selling out. So grab it while you can.

It'll come back, of course, but I'm just saying. And then, oh, it also makes really great gifts, by the way. And you'll see the bag. It's the bag's really epic. Okay. So some rapid fire questions, your favorite coffee origin and why or not, not in white, cause that's not rapid fire, your favorite, or you can say why your favorite coffee origin.

Martin Magurno
My favorite coffee origin. Wow, that's a tough one. There are coffees from so many good coffees from around the world. I would say recent one, definitely Colombia.

Yeah, Colombia has such an amazing coffee. And I've been trying, you know, different things. And there's a lot going on now with different types of processing and fermentation and anaerobic fermentations and stuff like that. So a lot of really good coffees coming out of, of a net Indian where, where your coffee is from. Yeah, I would say the net Indian region in Colombia has probably been my favorite dish here.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Okay. And then I know you were saying that the roast that is chosen really is tailored to the bean. So I guess that's important.

That aside, if you had to say like light, medium, dark roast for you, which do you prefer?

Martin Magurno
I tend to have medium roast at home. Of course, I taste everything at work, but what works the best for me is to have medium at home.

I really like the smooth, balanced cup that the medium roast provides. Plus, it allows me to brew it in an espresso way or with the AeroPress or a quick pullover with the V60 if I'm in a hairy cell. Yeah, usually medium roast is what I get stuck up at home.

Melanie Avalon
Because now I'm thinking about, I haven't answered these questions before in my head. Like what we have, which is like a light medium roast, that's my favorite, actually. So that would have been my favorite, regardless of what we chose for the flavor and the CJ content and everything.

Martin Magurno
And I should say that each, yeah, that each roaster, you know, they, people classify light, medium, dark, in a sign in different ways. So yeah, medium growth is sort of like an umbrella term, right? Like there are many different temperatures and all that, that that can happen, right? That the rose can be medium. So it's definitely, you know, a spectrum. So I want to clarify that.

Melanie Avalon
Is there a coffee myth you would like to bust?

Martin Magurno
Well, in terms of maybe caffeine, people think sometimes that's either a lighter roast or more caffeine or

Melanie Avalon
I'm so excited that you're saying this. Okay, yes.

Martin Magurno
or dark and rose have for Kathy, you know, nowadays, it's like, caffeine content doesn't really, she is changed by the roasting profile. So caffeine is very stable molecule.

So what does change caffeine content allies, whether it's Arabica, or robusta, that is what, you know, makes a big difference. But in terms of rose degree, it doesn't really change much. What happens is that with darker roasts, we tend to use a little bit more coffee, since darker rose is less dense. So whenever we weigh coffee to make a cup of coffee, right, we actually use more beans. So that is the reason why maybe darker, you know, in a dark roast cup of coffee, we might have a little bit more caffeine, but it's not because of, you know, that being having more caffeine, right, it's just by using a little bit more.

Melanie Avalon
I'm so happy you picked that as your answer because I was going to be annoyed at myself that I forgot to ask you that. Okay, that is fascinating.

That's a good one. Is there something that you think people should stop doing when they're buying sourcing, brewing their coffee? Like something where you're like, don't do that. Like when you see people drinking coffee, you're like buying coffee.

Martin Magurno
Well, in general, like, I don't really like the instant coffee, you know, world, usually, I mean, definitely there is no traceability there, usually low, that's lower quality coffee. It also has less caffeine that was tested and purified by some research studies.

And even some having, you know, it helped me levels of acrylamide and other harmful compounds. So that's what I would say, you know, sticking to two actual coffee beans around and doing the coffee at home is definitely the best way to have a healthy cup and, you know, the most flavorful one for sure.

Melanie Avalon
You tend to exist in the world of the medium, whole being. Do you have a favorite preparation method?

Martin Magurno
I love the V60, which is a design that the company, Japanese company, Pario, invented. And it's such an ingenious way of brewing coffee. It's a simple mover, basically. Just a simple filter system where you just use a paper filter on top of it, and it's just so easy. And it produces a clean, good cup of coffee, balanced and sweet. And that is usually what I do at home.

It's very fast. I do it directly on top of the cup. And you just then throw the filter with the coffee out after you brew it, and that's it. And you get a really good cup of coffee. So I would say that's my preferred method of brewing coffee at home.

Melanie Avalon
And what was the name of it again?

Martin Magurno
the V60. Yeah, V60 by have you. Yeah, I love it.

But of course, there are so many now and all sort of different ways. But the good thing about this is that very inexpensively, you can do really good coffee at home. Like the V60, I don't know how much it is, but it's probably 10 or 15 dollars or something like that. And that's it, right? There is really not anything fancy that you need to prove good coffee at home. So if you've got a grinder and that, you're all set.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome, awesome. Do you like coffee flavored things like other coffee flavored things?

Martin Magurno
Not really. No, I feel like they said like coffee ice cream. No, I I'm drinking coffee all the time. And yeah, coffee is my my thing.

So, of course, I have, you know, some desserts with coffee every now every once in a while, but I tend not to. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
There's definitely way more coffee flavor things than wine flavor things, but there will be like wine flavor things. And I'm always like, no, like, why would I, why would I have that?

Like, I just, I'll just have the wine. Is there a coffee food pairing that you like?

Martin Magurno
coffee food pairings. I can't just think about that one. I enjoy. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm very simple when it comes to breakfast, for example. So eggs and bacon and coffee is my thing. So hard to beat that for me.

Melanie Avalon
majority of the listeners who are doing fasting, you know, probably don't pair it with anything. So, oh, are you okay? Actually, I just thought about this one. It wasn't on my list.

I'm fascinated by people who have espresso as like, at night to help them sleep. I don't understand. Like, my dad will like have an espresso right before bed. And I know that's like a thing for people. And I'm like, how does that, I don't understand. But have you, are you like that? Or do you know people like that? Or they like drink it at night?

Martin Magurno
No, I'm definitely not like that. I'm the opposite. I'm very sensitive to caffeine, and I actually play a lot of importance to the timing of the caffeine. So for me, that's very important.

So having a coffee at night does a no-go for sure. And I do see people that are either very fast with double excess of caffeine. Some people really doesn't affect that much. But I believe at the end of the day, for a majority of people, it does affect the quality of the sleep and the duration of deep sleep. Why not? Now, I think some people are so tired sometimes at night that they can still fall asleep. But at the end of the day, I think it's good practice to avoid caffeine. That's my opinion.

I think it's good to avoid caffeine. Even if you can still sleep, you're tired, but I think it will impact you at some point during the night. But yeah, I definitely see that some people can have a shot of espresso and go to bed. But that's definitely not me.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's not me either. And I see it. I'm like, I don't understand. Like, I would be. Yeah, it would not work for me. Well, the good thing is now

Martin Magurno
There are really good decaf options, so nowadays we get very good quality decaf and that's probably a good option for people that really want to have coffee after their meal.

Melanie Avalon
Can any coffee be made into decaf? Essentially, yes, yes.

Martin Magurno
There are different ways of removing the caffeine from the coffee, but yes, definitely.

Melanie Avalon
Is that something you do or is that something from where does that happen along the line?

Martin Magurno
Right, no, that happened. There are different plants around the world that specialize in decaffeination.

So coffee is sent over there and through different buffer solutions and different paths, let's say, caffeine is removed from the coffee and then the coffee is dried again. And when we get it already, it's basically we get the green form, the whole form of coffee, we have a caffeine and then we go through the roasting process like we would do with any other coffee.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, interesting. Yeah, I definitely want to learn more about that.

I'm really interested in it. Okay, last one. Was there a moment during this whole collaboration process when you knew that the beans we found that you found were, you know, meant to be for Glow?

Martin Magurno
I think when we got the results back from the lab and we saw the high glutogenic acid for this type of profile that we already knew it was the best for this coffee, that was, I felt very confident. And yeah, it was a great moment when we shared with you.

And that was, yeah, that was great. That was a great one. I would say that was the point where we realized, well, this can actually happen.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. I'm thinking when it was for me. I think for me what it was was I was working with you and our other partner. And I think we've gotten back the results. I was super excited about it. It looked on paper like the perfect coffee. And then my other partner who, like I said at the beginning, is very into coffee. He's like the coffee taster. I remember when we actually, the reason we decided to do this was we were just having a call one day talking, I don't know how it came up, but we were talking about coffee. And I heard all about his passion for it. And then I was thinking about how passionate I am about the health benefits and how much my audience loves coffee. And so that's what led to our decision to collaborate and create glow coffee.

So the validating moment for me was when we had the results on paper, it looked like the perfect coffee, but nope, he had not tasted it yet. And then I remember we had a phone call because he had just tasted it. And he was like, it tastes amazing. And he was giving all the notes and I was like, okay, this is perfect. So not only is it perfect on paper for what we're looking for with chlorogenic acid, all the health benefits, organic, it also tastes amazing. So thank you, Martin. This has been just a dream situation, dream collaboration. I'm so excited to launch this coffee. Friends, again, go to glowcoffeeco.com. It will either be the launch live with an amazing special right now and or it will be about to launch. Either way, put your name on the list to get on the email list for all the updates. Yeah. So a last question, because I just decided, so I was going to air this only on the intermittent fasting podcast, but I've decided I'm going to air it on both podcasts. So on the biohacking podcast, I always end that show with the same question every show because I'm very, very obsessed with the importance of mindset. So what is something that you're grateful for?

Martin Magurno
I'm grateful for all the opportunities really of the last few years. I, I've met amazing people. I got to travel different parts of the world looking for coffee. And yeah, every trip and every encounter has been mind blowing and learn so much. So definitely I'm, I'm, I'm very thankful of, of all the opportunities that have presented themselves, you know, throughout these past few years, working with, with coffee.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so much, Martin. Again, I could not be more grateful for you.

This has just been absolutely amazing. I am so excited to actually launch this and get it out there and get it in people's hands. And listeners would love to hear from you, your thoughts on it. Yeah, just thank you for your time and can't wait to continue collaborating and creating all the glow coffee. So thank you so much. This has been amazing.

Martin Magurno
My pleasure, thank you Melanie, it has been an honor.

Melanie Avalon
Bye Martin. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. For more information and resources, you can check out my book, What Win Wine, as well as my supplement line, Avalon X. Please visit MelanieAvalon.com to learn more about today's guest. And always feel free to contact me at contact at MelanieAvalon.com. And always remember, you got this.